Dating in the Olden Days

[Hallucigenia]

Young'in here, popping in with a question.

My parents have been regaling me with stories of how, in their parents' day (that is, the 30s and 40s, and possibly 50s), dating was quite different, not just in how much sexual content there was but also in people's attitudes towards it. Apparently, in those days, a popular girl would go on "dates" with many boys, which were simply social events, often with many pairs of opposite-sex friends attending, often with more than one boy even in a single weekend. None of it would be considered "serious", and none of them would be considered the girl's boyfriend or engage in much physical affection with her - they were just having social interaction with the opposite gender. A couple wouldn't be considered to actually be a couple unless they went through a totally different process after many dates, and decided to go steady (and presumably stop dating others). This is in contrast to the social norms today, where a boy and a girl who date only once or twice are often already considered boyfriend and girlfriend (with expectations of physical intimacy to boot). Obviously, since they are nice protective parents of their innocent daughter, they have been holding up the old dating style as superior.

Here's my questions, if any of you were around in those days: First of all, is this an accurate portrayal of how dating actually was then, or does someone involved have their facts wrong? And, if the first question holds up okay, was it easier to be a young asexual in such a society? If so, how so, and did it stop being so easy when you got older? If not, what made it difficult to be asexual, given that you weren't expected to be having a lot of sex or torrid romance like teenagers are now?

None of this is tremendously important, but I'm curious about it.

[Elizabeth I]

I suppose one really must acknowledge being an oldster when you realize you have seen at least one full cycle of social history. They seem to come around every 50 years.

The dating style that you and your parents talk about was still alive and well in suburbia in the early to mid 60's. But things changed drastically in the following 5 years.

"Yeah, you've got that something, I wanna' hold your hand ...."

I was twelve years old in 1964 when the Beatles came to America. To me, it was the most significant social and cultural event in the second half of the 20th century.

I was looking forward to "dating" in the way you described when I turned 15 or 16, but by the time I reached age 16, it was 1969. The Beatles had broken up, and the time honored tradition of "dating" had fallen prey to the sexual revolution.

It was a time when sexual behaviour seemed to have no limits....and no repurcussions. There was convenient, reliable birth control, and untreatable venereal diseases were still unknown.

And there was something else ..... lots and lots of competition. A very large population of young people with breeding age libidoes and not much else to do. America was unprepared when the baby boomers started seeking employment.

Young men spent thier teens and twenties facing the grim possibility of having their lives snatched away at any moment by the draft.. Many saw no point in embarking on that traditional "family" journey with such a good possibility of a tragic end.

Phrases like "Free Love" and "If it moves, fondle it " proudy emblazoned pinback buttons, yet the word "Love" itself was so feared that to even utter it mistakenly in the "throes of passion" was considered self-depricating.

There was no love.... just sex. Lots of sex. Even GROUP sex! Random, uncommitted, self-serving and just plain desperate. It was not unusual for perfect strangers to ask "Wanna f**k?" BEFORE they would even ask your name. It was commonplace, it was public, and it was oddly acceptable.

"No one will be watching us. Why don't we do it in the road?"

The repurcussions seemed to start at around the time Siagon fell. There were young men who came back seriously wounded , and not just physically. There were many who didn't make it back at all. There was an America that didn't really want them...because they werent ACHIEVERS.

Then there was the uncurable and sometimes fatal STDS that claimed victims who knew nothing about "free love", or even about love. And there was spiraling recreational drug use.

Sex, drugs and rock and roll. The anthem of a generation, and with lots of fallout.

I think that a great many baby boomers were so busy competing that they are only now starting to realize what it is they missed that sex was just no substitute for. Physical affection ...nurturing....love.

"All, you need is love, love.... Love is all you need"

Was it the "Eve of Destruction" or the "Dawn of Correction"? Was it just another cycle? Like the gay 90's through the Roaring 20's to the Great Depression?

The thing YOU must know is that the leaders in this country NOW are old enough to have lived through those times. Don't take their legacy lightly, and don't think that you have to make it your own.

" When all the broken hearted people living in the world agree...there will be an answer... Let It Be "

Lizzie

[Tanwen]

My memories of things coincide pretty well with Elizabeth's. THe 'ssexual revolution' hit the UK mid 60s. I was once left at the cinema because I didn't know why he wanted to sit on the back row (it was a first date, for goodness sake) He said he was going to the toilet and that was the last I saw of him...the film was 'The Family Way'.

I wasn't particularly interested, but I tried to fit in - didn't work though.

[mackat5]

I graduated in 1960, before the sexual revolution, and for 3 of the years of High school, I lived in small town America, a town in the Thumb of lower MI. Though I never dated when I was in High school, I do remember the talk about certain girls who were "shacking up" with one or the other of the boys. Certainly frowned upon in those days, especially in that area. Seems dating and sex were two different things then. But yes, some of the "lucky" ones went steady with the boy of their choice. I think that they even planned on marrying that fellow after graduation.

[Ziffler]

Here's my questions, if any of you were around in those days: First of all, is this an accurate portrayal of how dating actually was then, or does someone involved have their facts wrong? And, if the first question holds up okay, was it easier to be a young asexual in such a society? If so, how so, and did it stop being so easy when you got older? If not, what made it difficult to be asexual, given that you weren't expected to be having a lot of sex or torrid romance like teenagers are now?

DITTO What Lizzie said.

I was also 12 in 1964 and the Beatles. I hated the beatles with a passion because they ruined everything I loved with life. I grew up with rock and roll and the beatles killed rock and roll. Sex ED in school didnt start until the late 60's. Kids, or at least me, didnt have a clue what sex was. One day puberty pounced on me and scared me to death. We were niave. Holding hands was very forward. Kissing was very serious. And although boys in the gym lockerroom at school bragged about sex most of us were virgins just bragging. The worst thing for a girl at school was to get the slut reputation. At least I thought that was the worst. Boys would dream of having sex with the school slut but wouldn't think of bringing her home or marrying her. Girls didn't date until they were 16 for the most part and that was usually double dating.

As for be asexual at the time. We didn't know we were asexual. We just knew we were different. Most of us, from what I have read on AVEN, believed we were gay and hid that fact from everyone. Being gay back then was the worst of the worst. Your family would disown you, your friends would shun you and everyone else would hate you. There were very few openly gay people back then. Even celebraties that you knew had to be gay, never openly said so, it would have been the end of their careers.

Sex just wasn't talked about openly. I find it odd that now boys of all ages talk about masturbating. No boy back then admitted to that.

Today, kids talk to each other on the phone and they call that dating. I was so shocked with that. At least thats safe dating. lol. But I got 8 and 9 year old nephews and nieces that phone friends and they call it dating.

I don't know if I answered you or not. I think it is really hard for you or anyone younger to get a feel of what it was like back then, because it's not like that now. I don't say that time was any better or worse than today. just different.

I know in my little town, we have dozens of 12/13 year old pregnancies every year. Back then, it was very rare for a 16 year old to get pregant and if she did, it was kept secret. It was scandalise for an unmarried girl to get pregnant. Now girls plan for a preganacy in middle school. They want to have babies without marriage. Times are so different.

Things you knew sexually at age 9 we didn't learn about until well into our 20's. Kids are learning things earlier, and doing things earlier. They are also developing earlier than we ever did. Puberty was 13 back then. It's 9/10 now. I have a 9 year old niece that wears a bra. Didn't happen back then, or if it did, it was a very rare case.[/b]

[Elizabeth I]

I was also 12 in 1964 and the Beatles. I hated the beatles with a passion because they ruined everything I loved with life. I grew up with rock and roll and the beatles killed rock and roll.

Well.....Don't know how that's a "Ditto" to what I said. I always have been a great fan of the Beatles, especially Paul McCartney.

Been keeping an eye on him for 40 years, just like my dad told me to do.

And it's been a pleasure!

"So don't you listen to what the man says!"

Lizzie

[Goonie]

Lizzie.. I think he meant the rest of your post

Hope you don't mind me jumping in Hallu... I do know some of my family history.

I know that my grandma never had an offical engagement to a young man... he was then killed in WW2. She ended up marrying someone from a family her brothers were friends with. She grew up in north east NM during the depression and dustbowls... they got married in the 40's

by 1938, my grandpa had been married at least twice... and twice to my grandmother. He ended up marrying 6 times I believe. He ran away form home and grew up with cattle rustlers.

My dad was 20 in the late 50's early 60's He ended up marrying 3 times. he left the first marriage because of an affair, and the second because he had the affair.

My mom was 20 in the late 60s. She married to get back at her parents for not letting her go to the college she watned to go to. She is now on her second marraige.. my parents started dating in 1981. Jan my dad asked my mom out. May he proposed. August they were married.

I know of a young woman (19) who is now engaged... before she left work (beg of may), she wasn't dating anyone. She is getting married in aug.

from what I can tell, the whole process has been advanced and sped up several years. I wonder if this could be why we are seeing more divorce cases...

[Ziffler]

Elizabeth I....

Well.....Don't know how that's a "Ditto" to what I said.

Goonie....

Lizzie.. I think he meant the rest of your post

EXACTLY............The rest of the post! LOL.

Oh I like the later stuff the beatles did and I like what they did after breaking up. I just wasn't a fan of the YA YA YA songs.

There was no doubt they were going to be huge and were and are. I just saw them as the turning point of music and be bop died.

Which is ok because along came Three Dog Night and Emerson Lake and Palmer, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, Neil Diamond and Elton John.

[Hallucigenia]

Thank you all. This is very interesting, especially Elizabeth I's post... I'm glad I don't live in the 60s!

[cijay]

I still don't know where the 'getting to know you' ends and actual 'dating' begins. Years ago, when someone in school asked someone else out, usually the guy asking the girl - it was called a date.

Now, when I talked about someone on a date, someone said "they didn't date, they just went out a few times."

So it sounds like even the TERM is changing. When I was in my teens ('75-'80), after you dated a few times, if you liked each other then you were "going out" or "going around".

[Hallucigenia]

Dating may be the term describing the relationship of two people attending a date, but other terms are often used. These terms can imply different degrees of commitment and monogamy, but with some ambiguity. In the mid-20th century, United States teenagers commonly dated or "went out" with multiple people before "going steady" with just one, but the term "going out" later came to imply an exclusive relationship. Other terms include "seeing" one another and "pseudo-dating" where the time is spent together, but the prospect of actual romantic relationship may be understood by one or both parties but is never explicitly discussed.

In other words, cijay, sexuals are not totally sure about that either.

[mouth brooder]

I want to frame Lizzie's essay and hang it on the wall.

I went to high school in the first half of the seventies and in the northeastern US. By that point, "kids" all went out together in groups and flirted with eachother. Then, the ones who took a fancy to each other would talk a few times on the phone. If they went out on a date, it always included making out--heavy kissing, petting, and if the girl agreed to go out again that meant she would probably agree to "going all the way." I don't know what the gay kids were doing, if anything, at that time because the stigma was still sooooo strong.

In the late seventies when and where I was in college, pairing off was rare--most people either indulged in an endless series of one night stands or were too busy with their studies to bother with sex at all. Indulgence in sex and drugs was rampant. Every girl I talked to about it who was sexually active said she preferred to have a monogamous relationship. There was a lesbian sorority on campus, but the guys were still too stigmatized to come out at the conservative, ha, school I attended.

One winter term I had a class entitled Human Sexuality. We read the Harrad Experiment and Diary of an Ex-Prom Queen. One of our guest speakers was a transsexual who even brought explicit before and after pictures.

If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have focused on my studies.

*Dazed and Confused until just recently*

[roddy9uk]

Not really apropos of this thread perhaps but it reminded me of something my 15 yo twins (girls) asked me the other day in respect of an American friend of mine who I see perhaps once a year.."Are you walking out with her?".

Now THERE is a VERY old term for dating..especially in the UK. It of course implies doing a lot more than walking ..:)

roddy

[cijay]

Dating may be the term describing the relationship of two people attending a date, but other terms are often used. These terms can imply different degrees of commitment and monogamy, but with some ambiguity. In the mid-20th century, United States teenagers commonly dated or "went out" with multiple people before "going steady" with just one, but the term "going out" later came to imply an exclusive relationship. Other terms include "seeing" one another and "pseudo-dating" where the time is spent together, but the prospect of actual romantic relationship may be understood by one or both parties but is never explicitly discussed.

In other words, cijay, sexuals are not totally sure about that either.

No kidding :lol:

[Aeriel]

I remember "dating" in the early 1960's as being a very rigid, yet undefined, set of social behaviors that made absolutely no sense to me. Whether this senslessness was because I was asexual, or an aspie, or just socially retarded in general, I don't know.

First date: holding hands (maybe) and a kiss goodnight (no tongue).

Second date: Attempts at physical intimacy were to be expected from the male on this date, but they must be refused. However a French kiss was ok at the end of things (thank god that's over).

Third date: As a climax to the evening, it was ok to be felt up (covered tit only) but anything beyond that earned the girl a reputation for being a slut.

I really don't know what would happen after that, since I never made it any further. The whole business was just ridiculous and certainly not pleasurable in any way. I don't know how things are today, but I cannot see how they could possibly be worse.

[Wee_Little_Me]

Ok Im young so I guess I dont know what Im talking about but heres some snipits of stuff Ive absorbed into my memory.

A woman who was telling other people who loved the 60's talk about this one boy she knew. "He was so charming, and had slipped something in my drink. I woke up with my back on a hardwood floor and he was having sex with me"

"oh thats terrible"

"no not at all! I enjoyed it! I pretended to be out and let him finish. I couldnt tell my coworks today that. They would go on about STD's and pregnancy. But there wasnt any of that back then. We didnt know about it, it didnt exist"

I also played Barbie The Game a few weeks back. I couldnt find a manufactuers date on it but it was my friends' mothers when she was a girl. Im assuming the 50's is accurate. Its funny, the amusing part of the game had nothing to do with the game but how I was mocking it the entire time. There was no instruction leaflet, it was pritned on the cardboard (wow thats old. lmao) and it stated that the game has "real-life appeal for young girls". The entire point of the game was to get a boyfriend, go steady, get a prom dress, and be prom queen. You landed on squares such as "snack bar. pay $1 if you dont have a steady boyfriend" and "you have a headach, get out of school" ...and go shopping!

I also hated that game. Nikki was promqueen both games and I never even made it to prom! lmao

And as for today, I still dont understand this 'dating' thing. I mean I thought I had it in highschool until some girl who dated a lot of older guys decided to express her frustration at one of the guys he was not dating. I sat there thinking "what the hell are you talking about". She explained it quite thoroughly - to the point where it made no sence. So, apparently, you can 'see' people when you're 'seeing' someone. But 'seeing' is not the same as 'dating'. When youre 'dating' your exclusive. And then theres something else which I dont remember at the moment.

Essentially I was told that I had it all wrong. Which is odd because all my boyfriends and friends and everyone ive talked to must have it wrong as well. :? some people...

[bluesy]

I graduated in '78. I remember dating guys with other couples along. There was always talk about when we were going to "lose it" . I don't remember being scared of anything except pregnancy. When I finally did "lose it", I remember sex being "expected" of me. I've never enjoyed that feeling. If you didn't put out then people thought you were gay. Which in those days was not a good thing. I think it was a hard time and it was really hard to get to know anyone well.

[a-d]

Of the accounts posted so far, I get the impression that everyone was "dating" in some form or another whether they wanted to or not. Is that right?

How would one address the original questions,

was it easier to be a young asexual in such a society? If so, how so, and did it stop being so easy when you got older? If not, what made it difficult to be asexual, given that you weren't expected to be having a lot of sex or torrid romance like teenagers are now?

Granted, no one knew what asexuality was then, but what happened to teenagers and adults who simply didn't date? Or simply didn't commit? Were they stigmatized? Ostracized? Nothing? Was there a lot of peer pressure? Family pressure?

[mackat5]

I never dated in high school, and have very few dates since. Mostly, it was because I was always the new girl in town, and on the outside of all the cliques. It was 4 years in one town, and 2 or 3 years in another. The longest that we were ever in a town was about 6 years. I was in grade school for 5 of those years. So no dates for me at all.

[bluesy]

No, I don't think dating was easier in my era. The peer pressure was simply awful. The goal was to find a great guy, and lose your virginity. I would have prefered to have hung out with friends and read books. I don't think it's ever been easy to be axsexual. But at least now you can say that you don't want sexual contact for so many reasons that we just didn't have. I the late 70's if you didn't have sex you were just plain weird.

[Fel]

If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have focused on my studies

Wow, dio, that's so nice to hear. Most "older" people I talk to say that they wished they partied more. I imagine that's because they were over-achievers, though.

Anyway, I just want to say how much I've enjoyed reading this post, and how happy I am that AVEN has a small but vibrant community of people over the age of 30. I'm very close to my baby-boomer parents--and I also enjoy history--so reading all of your anecdotes is truly a pleasure.

[Steel]

I was eight years old in 1966. Things had really started to change then. I liked the beatles music,but thought the hippies were stupid ,noisy ,lazy and filthy-in every possible way. My older step sisters were driving me crazy with Franky Valley records,and laughing at the dumb little kid who didn't know what a "roach clip" was.

I did know that dating should be a nice thing,where people got to know each other. Tv showed married people sleeping in separate beds. Most kisses were chaste,not that slobbering animal thing they so often prortay these days.

But even at that age,I knew that things were changing-and not for the better.

[FelineFanatic]

The one big difference i see between datimg long ago and now is the loss of respect.

[UnicornLady]

My own high school years were in the north of England in the 1970s-early 1980s. It was a girls' school, with a mixed sixth form. As a bookish only child, with few friends, I didn't really have a social life outside school, and in the UK 'dating' was never as ritualised as it seems to be in the US, nor did we have things like 'proms' (whatever those are).

The girls who seemed to be having under-age sex tended to be the low achievers, generally from poor backgrounds. This is still the case. For many of them, since academic achievement or decent employment is an ambition beyond them, having a child as soon as they can is their passage to adulthood. Those of us who were looking to go to university were more concerned with doing our homework.

[Elizabeth I]

My own high school years were in the north of England in the 1970s-early 1980s. It was a girls' school, with a mixed sixth form. As a bookish only child, with few friends, I didn't really have a social life outside school, and in the UK 'dating' was never as ritualised as it seems to be in the US, nor did we have things like 'proms' (whatever those are).

The girls who seemed to be having under-age sex tended to be the low achievers, generally from poor backgrounds. This is still the case. For many of them, since academic achievement or decent employment is an ambition beyond them, having a child as soon as they can is their passage to adulthood. Those of us who were looking to go to university were more concerned with doing our homework.

Actually, things were very similar for "working class" girls when I was young. I don't think Europeans realise that there are so many poor and working class Americans ...perhaps because they don't travel.

It's a bit ironic really....wealthy Americans often send their children to attend University in Europe because it's less expensive than the Universities here. For the most part, Universities here are out of reach financially for anyone except the very wealthy... and the few "token" individuals from "special interest" groups that they sponsor.

A common working class white girl was expected to marry a factory worker and regenerate the population of factory workers who earned minimum wage and lived under constant threat of termination if they did not produce a sufficient(and nearly always impossible) quota of "units".

And honestly...things probably haven't changed much here either.

You can't imagine how I envy your education. I was a very pretty, very proud 16 year old when I had to drop out of high school so I could work enough hours to pay my room rent and buy a bit of food.

I was foolish enough to think I could refuse the advances of the sexual predators who have always hidden behind positions of authority.... without repurcussion. I thought if I worked really HARD, that I could achieve that "American Dream" without sacrificing my integrity.

I was wrong.

Lizzie

[UnicornLady]

There wasn't really any financial obstacle to going to university in my day: it was just a question of wanting to, and getting the grades. Your local authority paid your tuition fees, and you got a maintenance grant to live on, which was assessed on parental income, so that if your parents didn't have a lot of money, they paid nothing. Sadly, this is no longer the case: governments decided to follow the American system, so students now end up with £Ks of debt around their necks, and my brief experience of university teaching in the mid-90s suggested that they are now letting in semi-literates who by second year (in an arts subject) still didn't know how to construct and write an essay. Yet there has been grade-inflation to a phenomenal extent. Many of the lecturers I know are quite bitter about this: they're not expected to fail anyone because it can impact on their departments financially...

As for poverty, & c: yes, I'm well aware of how socially divided the US. Unfortunately, the 1980s-90s were very destructive here, with Thatcher and her successors aping the US, and things seem to be heading the same way.

[janlascko]

I grew up as a teen in the turmoiled late 60's early 70's the sexual revolution. I was not allowed to date, so I never knew how to form relationships. God knows that my parents were no role models, and I always felt isolated because of it. When my kids started dating, I didn't know what advise to give them (yes, I gave them 'use protection' and let them know about diseases), but they have a hard time in relationships.

Tho I enjoy an active sex life at one time, that's all it was. When it was found I had a tumor on my pituitary gland (the master hormone manager), and I lost my sex drive, I'll be honest, I was not upset. I'm active now with school & stuff, so I'm pleased with life.

[ibicella]

I didn't really have a social life outside school, and in the UK 'dating' was never as ritualised as it seems to be in the US, nor did we have things like 'proms' (whatever those are).

A "Prom" is a final school sponsered dance and party for the graduating upperclassmen. Going to the prom or being asked to the prom was still a big thing when I was in high school 10 years ago. I didn't go to mine, because it's a very formal affair and I didn't have the $99 to spend on a prom ticket, the $300 to spend on a dress I was going to wear once, and on top of that dinner and limo fees...I also didn't have a date. I've never really regretted not going.

my brief experience of university teaching in the mid-90s suggested that they are now letting in semi-literates who by second year (in an arts subject) still didn't know how to construct and write an essay.

A friend of mine who's a professor at a University in New York told me about someone he knew in his graduating class who got a Phd in geology and couldn't read. He paid other people to do all his homework for him and somehow managed to work all the weak points in the system so he could graduate on technicalities.

Actually getting a college education in the US is really pretty easy. There is everything from "community colleges" which are pretty affordable to the really high Universitys like Yale and Harvard that are pretty much only afforded by the filthy rich and have very strict entrance policies.

Back on topic, My mother used to tell me about dating back in the late 50s to early 60's, and her stories sound similar to yours, Hallu. There was a LOT of peer pressure in her day to date. If you didn't date, it was very shameful because it meant you weren't pretty or popular or worthy of attention. For the girls especially. The whole goal of women in those days was to get their "MRS." Which from what my mother said was really the point of most of the women going to college if they weren't "lucky enough" to get married right out of high school, which was the dream of every girl in school.

Nowdays I've gone out with people recently and couldn't figure out if I was on a date or not. :?

[T_Hinker]

I agree with everything you guys said here.

I was 10 in 1968. The Viet Nam war draft was still on. My father had just retired from the military 3 years before with 20 years. He was just 35 years old. I was aware of hippies and the emerging 'sex, drugs and rock and roll’ era while The Platters played in the house and we watched Mayberry on TV.

They call the years between 10 and 17 one's 'formative years'. It is between these ages that one's sexual predilections are formed.

I was confused. I was being told that I would not be able to date or wear make-up until I was 16. I was watching what I thought were virtual orgies on TV. Mick Jaggar was 'rude' (lewd) on stage. Hippies were bathing in the Mardi Gras Fountain in New Orleans.

While my parents preached the evils of the hippie culture and scared the hell out of me, I watched coverage of Woodstock. I saw my schoolmates go from a strict button shirt OVER t-shirt (t-shirts were Underwear only!) and strict Dress pants only for boys to the wearing of t-shirts and jeans in school. The girls went from a strict wearing of dresses and dress pants to wearing jeans and miniskirts. I always felt ‘exposed’ in dresses and hated them, now I was supposed to wear a dress all the way to my crotch?

In a span of 4 years, girls went from talking about talking about playing records and playing with dolls and the Mystery Date (type) board games to talking about ‘French kissing’. I thought the former was stupid and was disgusted by the latter so stopped wanting to (never did, bit wanted to) hang out with them. They began being allowed to ‘date’. They could have a boy over to the house to watch TV with the parents and could go to the movies or to structured dances. I was not allowed. I had a boy over when I was 14. We were sitting on the front porch swing. My mother said she would shoot him because I was not going to date until I was sixteen.

I should add that we moved around a lot and I went to 13 schools in the 10 1/4 years I went to school. I too was always the new girl and was not allowed into the cliques, I was and still am an outside observer.

By the time I was 15, everyone had tried smoking pot and trying various pharmaceuticals. They were also bragging about having gotten ‘laid’. It was apparently some kind of trophy to be ‘getting laid’ I didn’t get it! (How could it be a trophy to have something done ‘to’ you?) All the cheerleaders had constant boyfriends, they were bragging too.

So I guess what I’m saying is that by 1972 or 73 the stage was set. The transformation from a time when there were ‘rules’ for dating to putting out to keep a boyfriend.

I left home at 16 and missed all the ‘prom time’ and such. I had always attributed my social awkwardness to having missed out on ‘dating 101’.

How many would agree?

[winter]

my roommate and i were just talking about this this evening. mostly, the terms of what are considered appropriate for getting married. my parents had been dating for two years when they got married. a girl i was friends with was dating her now fiance for two years when they got engaged - they're planning on getting married in 2009. another friend of mine had known her fiance for 3 years but had only been dating him for 4 months when they got engaged. they're planning on gettiing married next summer.

and me? i've got my 1950's boyfriend for longterm plans, but no one ever told me what's exceptable. i told my mother that i don't want to get married before i'm 25. my sister, now 25, starting going out with her fellow (now 40) in may - my mother remarked that he better not wait so long to propose because "no one's getting any younger."

i don't know if any of that makes sense in conjunction with one another, but it makes me wonder how much things have changed (if they have).