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IntellectualAsexual

Sexuals who want to be asexuals instead

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IntellectualAsexual

I noticed that lots of people have partners here. Are there any sexuals out there who just want to be asexual and try to be like that but they don't have partners and they don't want them either unless its to breed and begat children?

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Treesarepretty
17 hours ago, IntellectualAsexual said:

I noticed that lots of people have partners here. Are there any sexuals out there who just want to be asexual and try to be like that but they don't have partners and they don't want them either unless its to breed and begat children?

Maybe, but I am not one. 

 

I have long thought that it is stupid to want something because the entertainment media says you should, but the two exceptions I have where my desires and what the media says align are a decently paying job, and sex. For me to want to be asexual, I would have to think that sex is inherently evil, but I don't. I see no reason to have celebacy as a goal. Sex seems like a win-win activity unless one party thinks it is too gross or uncomfortable. Why should I wish to be with someone who thinks of sex with me as gross or uncomfortable? or--back to your question--why should I wish to live as though I thought that way? 

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MrDane

I will do many things in order to keep my asexual wife as a partner. But I will not take measures, like medicin, to stop my desire. 

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InariYana

Of course, you shouldn't take meds to lower your desire... but now you got me thinking about all those instances when people actually want to push medication on their low sex drive partners to get them to want sex more often. People go to their doctors, after being pestered about it by their partners, to get something to "cure" low sex drive, like it was some kind of disorder... well actually it IS called a disorder, "hypoactive sexual desire disorder", it's crazy. 

It shouldn't be accepted either way, this way of trying to "fix" someone chemically to better suit other person's needs/expectations.   

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Telecaster68

HSDD is specifically differentiated from asexuality in the DSM. There has to be some distress about the lack of desire for partnered sex for it to be HSDD. 

 

And lack of libido, leading to lack of desire for partnered sex can be due to a medical condition: depression, hormone levels or other illnesses. They're in fact more  common reasons than asexuality, so a visit to the doctor isn't at all unreasonable. 

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InariYana

Oh I'm not talking about asexual people, rather sexual people with low sex drives who are comfortable the way they are, apart from constant pushing & pushing towards more sex from their partners, which brings distress into the equation. 

Why don't consider the other partner as being hypersexual and tell them to have their hormones checked or something. Or medicate to keep the desire in check. 

There's nothing bad or abnormal about low sex drive, really. Or high sex drive. But folks with low sex drives are often considered somehow abnormal, while the ones with high sex drives - not so often (well, unless it's really extreme). I kind of never understood that (maybe this lack of understanding has something to do with my asexuality). What makes higher sex drives somehow "better"?  

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FictoVore.
On 07/11/2017 at 7:57 AM, InariYana said:

Oh I'm not talking about asexual people, rather sexual people with low sex drives who are comfortable the way they are, apart from constant pushing & pushing towards more sex from their partners, which brings distress into the equation. 

Why don't consider the other partner as being hypersexual and tell them to have their hormones checked or something. Or medicate to keep the desire in check. 

There's nothing bad or abnormal about low sex drive, really. Or high sex drive. But folks with low sex drives are often considered somehow abnormal, while the ones with high sex drives - not so often (well, unless it's really extreme). I kind of never understood that (maybe this lack of understanding has something to do with my asexuality). What makes higher sex drives somehow "better"?  

Well that's almost never how it works. It's almost always BOTH partners who are unhappy as a result of one partner having HSDD and one of the criteria FOR HSDD is that the person experiencing it is experiencing distress as a result of it. HSDD aside, it's quite common for sexual people to become unhappy if their libido drops suddenly because they still desire that connection and pleasure, but their body's aren't responding in the way they need them to (my sister in law was actually over at my house a few weeks ago complaining about this exact issue - she was very upset because she was unable to get 'in the mood' for sex even though she really wanted to because she missed it a lot - she's overweight and having a lot of blood pressure problems which is how this issue slowly krept up on her).

 

The other thing is, for many sexual people, sex is one of the most enjoyable intimate acts they can have with their partner, and they actively desire it for pleasure and enjoyment and intimacy etc. If one partner suddenly stops wanting it and is absolutely fine with that, that doesn't mean the other person can just force themselves to be okay with it. It may come down to a case of them saying 'we need to try to treat your sudden lack of libido or we will possibly need to consider splitting up because I can't live like this', and that really is totally valid. No one should be FORCED to go to a doctor and try to get treatment of course but I think actual forcing (ie being taken to the doctor at gunpoint) doesn't happen that much, if ever. Ultimatums are what happen: get this fixed or we'll have to break up/I may cheat/we'll need a trial separation/whatever. 

 

Low sex drive is actually commonly caused by 'issues', be that health issues, stress, grief, depression, obesity, etc. In these cases if the person is able to manage the issue they can often get their sex drive back to a more, er, 'healthy' (as in, the sex drive of a healthy person) level. This is why people often seek treatment when they're having these sorts of issues, because in many cases it can actually be fixed. But yeah, if someone really doesn't want it fixed and doesn't care either way, it is valid for their partner to be upset and maybe consider leaving.

 

And just to clarify, to forcibly *get rid of* sexual desire someone actually has to hurt themselves using chemicals or turning to an extremely unhealthy lifestyle. Whereas to get desire BACK, you usually need to get healthier, start eating better, getting more exercise etc. So yeah, that's why sexual people don't commonly aim to *get rid* of their own desire when faced with a partner who suddenly doesn't want sex. The sexual partner would actually have to attempt to castrate themselves with chemicals through the use of medications that have all sorts of nasty side effects, or try to get really overweight and unhealthy.. something dangerous and drastic like that. 

 

If one is solved by health, and the other is solved by forcing sickness, which do you think people would most often choose?

 

And no I'm not saying that someone who is perfectly happy not wanting sex has to seek treatment, I'm just saying it's valid for their partner to be upset and maybe not be able to come to terms with the sudden lack of sex.

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Telecaster68

Also... The nature of depression is that frequently people close to the depressed person end up prodding them to get treatment, because one of the symptoms is apathy. It's no different than nagging a partner to see a doctor over any other symptoms, and borne of caring about them. 

 

Or take the opposite: someone loses any sexual desire and knows it makes their partner miserable. How loving is it to just say 'tough, deal with it' and refuse to even consider doing something that makes their partner less unhappy? 

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Salted Karamel
On 11/6/2017 at 1:39 PM, Telecaster68 said:

HSDD is specifically differentiated from asexuality in the DSM. There has to be some distress about the lack of desire for partnered sex for it to be HSDD. 

The tricky thing about that is that even an asexual person can be distressed by their asexuality causing tension in their relationship.

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Homer
12 minutes ago, Salted Karamel said:

The tricky thing about that is that even an asexual person can be distressed by their asexuality causing tension in their relationship.

They're distressed by the tension in their relationship rather than their asexuality itself. They'd be happiest if their partner felt the same (sexuality-wise, not distressed).

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Philip027
Quote

Well that's almost never how it works. It's almost always BOTH partners who are unhappy as a result of one partner having HSDD and one of the criteria FOR HSDD is that the person experiencing it is experiencing distress as a result of it.

Thing is, there's kind of a difference between being innately dissatisfied with your own sex drive, and your partner giving you a hard time because of it.

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Telecaster68

I think Ficto means something slightly different - an asexual can be fine with their own feelings, and their sexual partner isn't giving them a hard time but saying 'I'm unhappy, you're unhappy, this is an issue in our relationship we both have to address and one thing you can do initially is see a doctor to see if it's a symptom of something else' which is completely reasonable. Untangling exactly what the asexual is unhappy about is something that can be addressed in therapy (as opposed to 'healing' them). 

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FictoVore.
On 11/8/2017 at 3:52 PM, Philip027 said:

Thing is, there's kind of a difference between being innately dissatisfied with your own sex drive, and your partner giving you a hard time because of it.

 

18 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think Ficto means something slightly different - an asexual can be fine with their own feelings, and their sexual partner isn't giving them a hard time but saying 'I'm unhappy, you're unhappy, this is an issue in our relationship we both have to address and one thing you can do initially is see a doctor to see if it's a symptom of something else' which is completely reasonable. Untangling exactly what the asexual is unhappy about is something that can be addressed in therapy (as opposed to 'healing' them). 

Yeah that's what I meant. And I meant that can be the case even if the 'low libido'/'low desire' partner isn't asexual, but is just a sexual person who is fine that they don't want sex.

 

@ Philip, It's not 'pushy' for the more sexual partner to try to seek a resolution or even be concerned for their partner's health so request they go to a doctor to see if it is something else causing the lack of desire. If you're actually bullying your partner to go to a doctor (regardless of the circumstance), as in 'go to the doctor or I'll bash you' or whatever, well... that's obviously just shitty behavior and you should dump a jerk if they're behaving like that lol.. but a lot of the time the sexual partner is legitimately concerned, and also knows they can't be happy in a sexless relationship.. so hopes to seek a resolution and make sure their partner is healthy etc. Asexuals often seem to interpret that as 'pushy' when it's actually a totally understandable and logical reaction to the situation, and comes more from a place of care, love, and worry than selfishness.

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Treesarepretty

@IntellectualAsexual, from the fact that this "are there sexuals who want to become ace" thread became a thread about increasing sex drive by the third reply, I think I may have been wrong in the first part of my post. No, there do not appear to be sexual people who want to be ace. 

 

Also, I hold with @FictoVore. and @Telecaster68 in the new discussion: I think that it is reasonable to ask a partner to see a doctor to determine if a lack of sex drive is a symptom of a larger problem, and unreasonable to force them to go just to get one's rocks off. 

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Nowhere Girl

And I still believe there is no "HSDD". It's a part of normal variation.

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alibali

I wouldn't have said I was HSDD. Yes I regret that being asexual means I couldn't have a "proper" relationship and probably never will, but I don't feel any real distress about not wanting sex, and didn't even when in relationships. It's more of a philosophical distress, as my mind and body doesn't miss sex, just the possibility of having a soul mate.

 

But I don't think either sexuals or asexuals can alter who they are. Only behaviour can change.

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m4rble
On 11/8/2017 at 9:17 PM, Treesarepretty said:

@IntellectualAsexual, from the fact that this "are there sexuals who want to become ace" thread became a thread about increasing sex drive by the third reply, I think I may have been wrong in the first part of my post. No, there do not appear to be sexual people who want to be ace. 

 

Also, I hold with @FictoVore. and @Telecaster68 in the new discussion: I think that it is reasonable to ask a partner to see a doctor to determine if a lack of sex drive is a symptom of a larger problem, and unreasonable to force them to go just to get one's rocks off. 

I've actually seen sexual people on Aven who wanted to be ace, usually because they had ace partners. 

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Tarfeather

Being asexual would be kind of cool, honestly. That's mostly because I don't like interacting with people, and having such a fundamental need that requires interaction with other people is a giant pain in the butt.

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Treesarepretty
On 11/15/2017 at 9:43 AM, m4rble said:

I've actually seen sexual people on Aven who wanted to be ace, usually because they had ace partners. 

 

After my posts here, I remembered that @Davchun had started a thread saying that he wanted to become ace, so I posted a reply there, asking him to come here and answer @IntellectualAsexual's question. 

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IntellectualAsexual

I have been reading Anthony Bogaerts book about understanding asexuality. It's pretty interesting. It claims that people who masturbate can be asexual too, but I am not sure weather I believe that or not. I want to be asexual but I see myself as sexual anyway, but I would never just have flings or something like that. The book claims that having fantasies is a way that adolescents practice sex, it's like play or something. They say the older they get the less they have. About 1% of the population is asexual. Gay men were 2%, and lesbians were 1%. Others shifted between them or weren't exclusively entirely gay. So I wonder if there is a spectrum of asexuality, like the site claims, so sexuals could be more or less asexual too. If gays can be partially gay and not exclusively so, can sexuals be partially asexual, but not exclusively so?

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gaogao
2 hours ago, IntellectualAsexual said:

If gays can be partially gay and not exclusively so, can sexuals be partially asexual, but not exclusively so?

Idk but I always thought:

 

People who are partially gay and not exclusively so - possibly Bisexual or Pansexual? 

People who are partially asexual but not exclusively so - possibly Greysexual or Demisexual? 

 

I kind of wouldn't use the words 'gays who are partially gay' or 'sexuals who are partially asexual' -- it feels kind of incorrect/weird. Also what I wrote feels very generalised and reductive... and also generally controversial.

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Telecaster68

Isn't that what generally gets called grey sexual on AVEN, or often 'normal' in the rest of the world? 

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gaogao
3 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Isn't that what generally gets called grey sexual on AVEN, or often 'normal' in the rest of the world? 

Yeaaaah -- I kinda meant this in a "you're either asexual or you're not" in the same way as "you're either gay or you're not." 

 

You don't call bi people "partially gay but not exclusively so" .. like what the hell IS that. 

 

I just phrased this really confusingly, i got myself confused.

 

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Pramana

There's an argument from developmental psychologist Ritch Savin-Williams (well known for sexual orientation research) for recognizing "mostly heterosexual" as a distinct sexual orientation:

"Sexuality exists along a spectrum with degrees of heterosexuality and homosexuality, and yet we continue to categorize people as if the only options are gay, straight, or bi. But new research shows this is changing, especially among young adults who tell us self-identify outside of these three so-called “traditional” categories.
 

The largest of these new sexualities is the mostly straight—heterosexuals with a small degree of gayness. Indeed, more individuals identify as mostly, but not all together, straight than who identify as gay/lesbian or bisexual combined. Although more women, about 10%, than men, roughly 5%, claim to be mostly straight, the numbers are escalating as the current generation of youth feel little stigma with being “a little bit gay.”


But even those who identify as “mostly straight” exist on a wide spectrum."


https://academicminute.org/2015/03/ritch-savin-williams-cornell-university-sexuality-spectrum/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273229713000026

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gaogao

Honestly I think there's a difference between a label's definition and people using a label because it's convenient and suits their situation. 

 

People who are 'mostly heterosexual' are still bisexual and should be able to access bisexual spaces - their tendency to prefer "hetero" relationships doesn't negate their presence in a bisexual space if they have sexual attraction to the same gender even occasionally.

 

Essentially, if you are hesitant to acknowledge your attraction to the same gender, even if it is small/rare, I think you need to examine why that is and whether any internalised homophobia/biphobia is at play. (Also, if you think bisexual people in hetero relationships do not belong in LGBT+ spaces, you are definitely biphobic - this is definitely a big problem in lesbian/gay communities as well).

 

If you think your attraction to the same gender is so rare that you'd rather not claim the label because you feel you do not face most of the issues that bisexual and gay people face, that's certainly a fair enough assessment of your situation, but it really depends on where you are coming from - you are making a decision not to use a label because it is not useful for you, even if you technically fit under that category by its definition. This choice is not the same thing as there being a separate label for 'mostly heterosexual/being a little bit gay' - because that in itself not actually a separate thing - it's already covered by the spectrum of bisexuality. 

 

Perhaps there does need to be a separate label for these things, like 'bisexual with a preference for men/ bisexual with a preference for women', just as 'gray-a' and 'demi' seem to be prevalent here on AVEN -- but imo these sexualities are still essentially sexual, just as bisexual people who strongly prefer men or women are still.. essentially bisexual.

 

Ofc I guess if you wanna use gray/demi as the equivalent spectrum, that would also actually kind of work too...? but then I think it gets confusing because most people would fall under that area and there would only be very very few 'true' sexuals around.

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Sexual Ally

I'll answer the OP's initial query.  Tho I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd prefer to be asexual, I am envious of certain aspects of it.

 

Starting college full-time as a 30-something over two years ago was the hardest thing I ever did, and I quickly learned I would need to totally overhaul how I allocated time time if I was going to be successful academically.  Before school I worked and had a social life, but also spent a lot of my free time pursuing recreational sex.  The reasons for this were complicated, and well-entrenched, as it had become habituated as a cure-all for boredom, validation and all sorts of emotional needs since I was 16, and as a gay guy in nyc is easy to find.  But I vanquished myself from that whole world shortly after my studies began, as I realized in order to keep the kind of GPA I wanted I couldn't be cruising online at 2am as well.

 

  I know I'm not the only gay man in nyc who is not on a hook-up app, but it often feels that way, bc it is such a part of the culture (or at least it is marketed so aggressively as to appear a prime part of the culture.)   I envy my sexual friends who are able to indulge in the apps in a safe, time-limited way, but for me after much trial-and-error I realized I needed to remove myself completely, because the habitual lure was too great, and the stakes (my GPA, and by extention, my future,) too great.  It's in that vein that I also envy Aces, who of course are not burdened with this distraction.  I also wonder....  all that time in my teens and 20's pursuing sex, which did nothing to help me grow as an individual...  how would things be different today had that time been better spent?  A lot of "what if's", I know :)

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Treesarepretty
20 hours ago, Sexual Ally said:

I also wonder....  all that time in my teens and 20's pursuing sex, which did nothing to help me grow as an individual...  how would things be different today had that time been better spent?  A lot of "what if's", I know :)

I think the middle road of some time spent persuing sex, some time persuing a career is a more optimal life. Don't beat yourself up over it. You probably grew from that in ways you don't realize. 

 

:cake: 

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IntellectualAsexual

I think there are as many a/sexualities as there are people. And animals too. In nature, there are more than one type of gender, animals can sex change. Flowers can be either male or female, or both at the same time. So gender is a matter of opinion. Things considered male in one society can be female in another. So it's more than just biology, since there can be two females, one a native, and one a european, and the native woman makes the pottery and the man digs the clay, but in Europe the man is the potter, and the digger, and the woman is the housewife. So it can't be a mental state that is natural for one to be one thing and the other the other. But in earlier times, it was the case that things were labeled male or female and masculine and feminine. As the book claims, the only thing that differs is the physical appearance, but that can be different too. Some males can be more feminine in appearance and some females can be more masculine. There are also intersexed people and people who vary. Some people even differ in chromosomes, like have XXX, XXY, etc, things like turner's syndrome and stuff, so they can differ biologically. I guess us sexuals can differ from asexuals biologically in some manner as well. 

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Salted Karamel
On 11/7/2017 at 8:31 PM, Grinchmer said:

 

Quote

 

HSDD is specifically differentiated from asexuality in the DSM. There has to be some distress about the lack of desire for partnered sex for it to be HSDD. 

The tricky thing about that is that even an asexual person can be distressed by their asexuality causing tension in their relationship.

 

 

 

They're distressed by the tension in their relationship rather than their asexuality itself. They'd be happiest if their partner felt the same (sexuality-wise, not distressed).

 

On 11/7/2017 at 9:52 PM, Philip027 said:

Thing is, there's kind of a difference between being innately dissatisfied with your own sex drive, and your partner giving you a hard time because of it.

 

Sorry, looks like I confused some people with that one and never came back to explain it.

 

What I mean is that it can be difficult to pick apart what "feeling distressed" means, or what the precise source of your distress is. If you've been convinced all your life that you're sexual because "everyone is sexual," then you can think "gee, my partner is miserable because I never want sex and our relationship is suffering because I never want sex so never wanting sex is making me pretty miserable, therefore I am distressed about my lack of sex drive."

 

Besides, everyone tells you that having sex will make you happy and that wanting sex means you're normal, and if you're not happy about the sex you're having then you must not be having good sex a.k.a. you're doing it wrong and you're bad at sex, the thing that you should never be bad at if you want to be a happy person who anyone else wants to associate with ever. Pile all that kind of baggage onto the issue, and feeling like a failure for not enjoying sex will make you pretty distressed. Also the love of your life might leave you if you don't start wanting sex more or enjoying the sex that you're having anyway more. Pretty distressing.

 

Yes, we know the difference between "I'm not distressed about not wanting the sex; I'm distressed about the pressure placed upon me about needing to want and enjoy sex" and "I'm distressed and my lack of sex drive seems to be the cause therefore I conclude that I am distressed about my lack of sex drive" because we're part of a community that ponders and discusses this sort of thing quite often. Pose your average Married Mary who's never heard of asexuality, never thought there could be a difference between sexual attraction and romantic attraction, never considered that there's a whole subset of humanity who just doesn't want sex—and that she might fall into it—with the question "are you distressed by your lack of sex drive?" while Husband Herbie and all her BFFs constantly pressure her with all the issues mentioned above and I'd say there's a pretty good chance she's going to conclude that her lack of sex drive is distressing her even if she might otherwise be categorized as an asexual... if she knew about asexuality.

 

tl;dr, What I'm saying is that differentiating between HSDD and asexuality by posing the patient with the question "Are you distressed by your lack of sex drive y/n?" might be yielding some false positives because it assumes that the patient has picked apart the issue thoroughly enough to distinguish the "real" source of their distress.

 

 

On 11/6/2017 at 11:30 AM, Treesarepretty said:

Maybe, but I am not one. 

 

I have long thought that it is stupid to want something because the entertainment media says you should, but the two exceptions I have where my desires and what the media says align are a decently paying job, and sex. For me to want to be asexual, I would have to think that sex is inherently evil, but I don't. I see no reason to have celebacy as a goal. Sex seems like a win-win activity unless one party thinks it is too gross or uncomfortable. Why should I wish to be with someone who thinks of sex with me as gross or uncomfortable? or--back to your question--why should I wish to live as though I thought that way? 

 

Bonus correction: Asexuals do not necessarily think of sex as gross, uncomfortable, and/or inherently evil.

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Telecaster68

@Salted Karamel

 

Yes, it's complicated to unravel, and I think in many cases that's why therapy can help as it can focus on the unravelling, not with the aim of 'curing' anything, just so that people understand and accept themselves better, and can be happier. I don't think any grand rules or flowcharts can be drawn up. 

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