Definition of Asexuality

[Turtleslobber]

Okay, this topic has been on my mind a lot, especially the attitude this community has about who is asexual and who isn't. It bothers me a lot that so many people face unacceptance just because of these weird "rules" for being asexual. Really people? Like defining asexuality is not that hard. If you want to have sex with people of the same gender, you're homosexual. If you want to have sex with people of the opposite gender, you're heterosexual. Both is bisexual. With any gender type is pansexual. It's all about who you want to have sex with. If you don't want to have sex with anyone, you should be perfectly comfortable saying "I'm asexual" without a hundred people getting in your face and saying ArE yOU sUrE bEcAuSE iF YoU HAvE eVEr hAd tHE ThOuGHt oF bLaH BlAh bLAh. Like seriously people like leave the kid alone. He says he's asexual. Let him be. I don't think it's fair to bring some sort of elitism in this otherwise kind and inclusive community and decide someone's sexuality for them just because you think they might be gray ace or demi or whatever. Let people define their own sexuality and keep your rules to yourself.

[Philip027]

That's really where the problem lies though, people wanting to have sex with other people while still insisting they're asexual since they (apparently) don't experience attraction.  You say defining it shouldn't be that hard, yet these people would go against what you say defines sexuality.  So who's in the wrong here?

[Galactic Turtle]

Pretty much what @Philip027 said. Most debates center around the whole conundrum of attraction vs. desire. I saw a post on Facebook the other day where a person said something along the lines of "I used to be sex repulsed but then I had sex and loved it. I'd have sex multiple times a day with my boyfriend if he'd let me! But I'm not sexually attracted to him so I'm still asexual."

 

And yes, with that sort of climate going around like... sure I can't understand how individual people feel it just seems like in a lot of cases people are really stretching the notion of "behavior doesn't equal orientation."

 

Sometimes I kind of wish we'd just go with the definition you get when you google "asexual" which is the dictionary definition: "A person who has no sexual feelings or desires."

 

I get this might be seen as gatekeeping.... or whatever.... but I can't help but scratch my head when I hear certain things. It's so counterintuitive. Maybe it's because I don't know what sexual desire/libido feels like that I think this way.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Turtleslobber said:

 Like defining asexuality is not that hard. If you want to have sex with people of the same gender, you're homosexual. If you want to have sex with people of the opposite gender, you're heterosexual. Both is bisexual. With any gender type is pansexual. It's all about who you want to have sex with. If you don't want to have sex with anyone, you should be perfectly comfortable saying "I'm asexual" without a hundred people getting in your face and saying ArE yOU sUrE bEcAuSE iF YoU HAvE eVEr hAd tHE ThOuGHt oF bLaH BlAh bLAh. Like seriously people like leave the kid alone. He says he's asexual. Let him be. I don't think it's fair to bring some sort of elitism in this otherwise kind and inclusive community and decide someone's sexuality for them just because you think they might be gray ace or demi or whatever. Let people define their own sexuality and keep your rules to yourself.

Yup, as Philip and GalacticTurtle said, that's exactly the issue.

 

There are many people in the ace community who say asexuals can love having sex and actively desire to have it with certain other people but don't care about the appearance of the people who they have it with. Which is WHY certain people (ie myself) want the definition clarified to something like 'an asexual has no innate desire to connect sexually with other people for pleasure'.. Because the way it stands currently, the definition is very misunderstood by many people in the ace community who assume hetero/homo/bi/pansexual people only desire sex with others because they find them 'attractive' to look at in a way that causes sexual arousal (which certainly is not true of all sexual people).

[Rynn]

@Turtleslobber

Could you please link to an example of someone on this website saying "Sure, you never want to have sex with anyone, but you're not asexual because..."

 

I've only seen people on here say "You aren't asexual if you desire sex with people/if your life would be incomplete without sex." To those people on here it doesn't matter whether that desire is directed at a specific person or not.

[Rynn]

2 minutes ago, Galactic Turtle said:

Sometimes I kind of wish we'd just go with the definition you get when you google "asexual" which is the dictionary definition: "A person who has no sexual feelings or desires."

No, that's super vague. Someone who doesn't ever want to have sex with anyone, but masturbates, could also suddenly be disqualified because that could be a 'sexual feeling'.

[Galactic Turtle]

1 minute ago, Laurann said:

No, that's super vague. Someone who doesn't ever want to have sex with anyone, but masturbates, could also suddenly be disqualified because that could be a 'sexual feeling'.

I was just giving it as an example but yes. 

 

EDIT: Also lots of asexual people who do masturbate there's like.... nothing sexual about it. It's kind of like sneezing or urinating from what I've seen.

[TheSmokingSkellie]

2 minutes ago, Galactic Turtle said:

EDIT: Also lots of asexual people who do masturbate there's like.... nothing sexual about it. It's kind of like sneezing or urinating from what I've seen.

I like to call it the itch. The very pointy itch. 

[Philip027]

Quote

EDIT: Also lots of asexual people who do masturbate there's like.... nothing sexual about it.

Aside from the fact that you're purposely manipulating your sexual organs to simulate the same sort of physical sensations you'd get from partnered sexual contact.

 

Yeah, there's nothing sexual about it at all

[Galactic Turtle]

3 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

Aside from the fact that you're purposely manipulating your sexual organs to simulate the same sort of physical sensations you'd get from partnered sexual contact.

 

Yeah, there's nothing sexual about it at all

Lol! I really have no idea but that's just what people seem to say. XD *crawls under a bush*

[Alejandrogynous]

16 minutes ago, Galactic Turtle said:

I saw a post on Facebook the other day where a person said something along the lines of "I used to be sex repulsed but then I had sex and loved it. I'd have sex multiple times a day with my boyfriend if he'd let me! But I'm not sexually attracted to him so I'm still asexual."

 

And yes, with that sort of climate going around like... sure I can't understand how individual people feel it just seems like in a lot of cases people are really stretching the notion of "behavior doesn't equal orientation."

 

I just yesterday backed out of an asexual Facebook group I was in because of this. Got tired of being called an elitist gatekeeper and being told to leave because I question posts like these. It is.. disheartening, lol.

 

But yes, I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say, "I don't like sex or plan to have it ever, I'm asexual," and the community to argue it. The closest thing to this I can think of is maybe when a person used to be sexual but then, through health problems/medication/life whatever, lost their libido or desire and now prefer to ID as asexual rather than fight to get those feelings back. And even then, I've only ever seen them welcomed with open arms here. Usually, as others have already said, it's the opposite problem we have, where people claim to love sex and want lots of it but they're still asexual because, "asexuality is only about attraction".

[Arctangent]

While I'm not sure I've seen exactly what the OP is referring to, I have seen some people wondering if they can't be asexual because even though they don't innately desire sex with anyone ever, they still experience something they consider "sexual attraction." IMO, that can count as asexuality too.

[Philip027]

Quote

Lol! I really have no idea but that's just what people seem to say. XD *crawls under a bush*

Didn't mean to single you out to the point where you'd hide, but I'm pretty baffled at anyone who can honestly say with a straight face that masturbation isn't sexual.  You're basically emulating sex, just without the second person.  As far as I'm concerned, it's unquestionably sexual.

 

Quote

While I'm not sure I've seen exactly what the OP is referring to, I have seen some people wondering if they can't be asexual because even though they don't innately desire sex with anyone ever, they still experience something they consider "sexual attraction." IMO, that can count as asexuality too.

I can see why those people might relate more to the asexual crowd, but to me, that's still a closer descriptor to celibacy rather than asexuality.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

Aside from the fact that you're purposely manipulating your sexual organs to provide the same sort of physical sensations you'd get from partnered sexual contact.

 

Yeah, there's nothing sexual about it at all

This is for @Galactic Turtle too so you can understand why people say that about masturbation

 

Think about how many women hate having a speculum shoved up their vagina, even if they enjoy penetrative vaginal sex. It's the same thing happening.. She's having a 6 inch long speculum shaped like a penis shoved inside her.. that MUST be sexual! her vagina is her sexual organs!.. But no, it's not 'sexual' activity in any way.. it's actually extremely uncomfortable and feels quite invasive for many women.

 

Masturbation, for asexuals, is a bodily function like voiding the bladder. Life would be much easier if you didn't have to urinate every now and then, but your body still works like anyone else's if you have a healthy libido, so sadly those organs still do their thing and it can be very uncomfortable, and messy, if you don't deal with that. To me, someone who has fully functioning genitals and a healthy libido, yet STILL has no desire to connect sexually with others, is all the proof that is needed to show that asexuality is a 'real thing'. If someone's libido is so low that they never get aroused enough to even need to masturbate, then they probably also aren't going to be going out trying to hump people - if all asexuals were like that then asexuality could easily be passed off as a hormonal medical condition. Yet if a guy is getting erections that he needs to 'deal with' twice a day and still has absolutely no desire to have sex with anyone else, then he's very, very clearly asexual (as opposed to possibly having an underlying medical condition like hormonal issues)

 

I'm not saying aces who don't masturbate all have hormonal issues or anything like that, but that's how asexuality would be 'passed off' by the rest of the population if a requirement for asexuality was 'no ability to experience arousal'.

[timewarp]

[Guest]

Just now, Philip027 said:

Didn't mean to single you out to the point where you'd hide, but I'm pretty baffled at anyone who can honestly say with a straight face that masturbation isn't sexual.  You're basically emulating sex, just without the second person.  As far as I'm concerned, it's unquestionably sexual.

Yes and a woman having a speculum shoved up her vagina at the doctor is also having a sexual experience  

 

Oh and a guy having a rectal exam is having a gay sexual experience.. obviously. 

 

Regardless, it's the desire for partnered sexual activity the counts. The correct phrasing is that an asexual can still have a healthy libido and masturbate, but does not desire partnered sexual contact for pleasure. That way it's easily understood and no one gets confused.

 

 

[Philip027]

Quote

Think about how many women hate having a speculum shoved up their vagina, even if they enjoy penetrative vaginal sex. It's the same thing happening.. She's having a 6 inch long speculum shaped like a penis shoved inside her.. that MUST be sexual! her vagina is her sexual organs!.. But no, it's not 'sexual' activity in any way.. it's actually extremely uncomfortable and feels quite invasive for many women.

There isn't anything sexual about that because the goal is not sexual response/gratification.  Same reason why peeing isn't considered sexual (at least, not for most of us...)

 

I'm not saying that anyone who masturbates can't be asexual... but it is still unquestionably a sexual act.  It doesn't become not so just because another person isn't involved.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Law of Circles said:

While I'm not sure I've seen exactly what the OP is referring to, I have seen some people wondering if they can't be asexual because even though they don't innately desire sex with anyone ever, they still experience something they consider "sexual attraction." IMO, that can count as asexuality too.

Yes I've seen that one too. 'You're not asexual if you can find people attractive or use a word like 'hot' to describe someone. I don't care if you never want to have sex with anyone, ever, you're still not asexual if the word 'hot' is part of your vocabulary used to describe certain other people'

 

Basing asexuality over what words someone can and can't use is just ridiculous to me, but there are people here who will literally say this any time someone says they can find people 'hot' to look at but have no desire to have sex with anyone no matter how attractive they are. *sigh*

[TheSmokingSkellie]

1 minute ago, FictoVore. said:

Basing asexuality over what words someone can and can't use is just ridiculous to me, but there are people here who will literally say this any time someone says they can find people 'hot' to look at but have no desire to have sex with anyone no matter how attractive they are. *sigh*

"B-b-b-but asexuals can't find people attractive, that means they wanna bang them!"

 

Rare, but I have seen some outright say that if you're asexual then you cannot say you find anyone attractive physically because then that = you wanting to bang them.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

There isn't anything sexual about that because the goal is not sexual response.  Same reason why peeing isn't considered sexual (at least, not for most of us...)

 

I'm not saying that anyone who masturbates can't be asexual... but it is still unquestionably a sexual act.  It doesn't become not so just because another person isn't involved.

Yes I know what you're saying, that's why I wanted to clarify for other readers that it's the 'partnered' aspect that counts.

 

And for me, masturbation is literally the equivalent of peeing. It's just an annoying thing that has to be dealt with. Yet desiring sexual intimacy with the person I love is a completely different thing and I don't even care if my own genitals are stimulated during that intimacy (and also, wouldn't be able to enjoy having the other person stimulating them in any way). It's a completely different set of actions and sensations I am after during sexual intimacy than what I do when I masturbate, but I understand I am a minority among sexuals in that aspect. However, I can definitely see how masturbation could feel utterly separate from any form of 'sexual' activity for asexuals if they feel the same about solo masturbation as I do. But yeah, it's the 'partnered' aspect that counts. Asexuals have no desire to connect sexually with other people for pleasure/sexual release, regardless of whether or not they masturbate.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, TheSmokingSkellie said:

"B-b-b-but asexuals can't find people attractive, that means they wanna bang them!"

 

Rare, but I have seen some outright say that if you're asexual then you cannot say you find anyone attractive physically because then that = you wanting to bang them.

Yep, I've seen the exact same thing here and in other places where asexuality is discussed online: 'If you find anyone attractive you must want to have sex with them.. And even if you don't want to have sex with them that means you're just celibate, not asexual.. Asexuals can't find people attractive, that's the whole point - they might still want sex, but don't find anyone attractive. Just look at the definition of asexuality on AVEN if you don't believe me.'

 

*instantly goes to the shop to buy beer*

[Alejandrogynous]

1 minute ago, Philip027 said:

There isn't anything sexual about that because the goal is not sexual response.  Same reason why peeing isn't considered sexual (at least, not for most of us...)

 

I'm not saying that anyone who masturbates can't be asexual... but it is still unquestionably a sexual act.

As an asexual with a high libido who masturbates often, I think it depends on the person. When I do it, I used erotica and a vivid imagination to focus on explicit sexual material in order to orgasm. It's a sexual act for me, definitely. For some others though, as I understand it, there's nothing more to it than relieving a bothersome bodily function, like peeing. There's no fantasy, no sexually charged thoughts involved, just a hit that reflex glad that's over with, on with their day. I can see why someone like that would feel that masturbating isn't sexual for them.

[Philip027]

Preferring masturbation to partnered sexual activity, or the degree to which you feel compelled to do it... doesn't change the fact that when you do it, it is a simulation of sexual activity, using one's sexual organs, to evoke sexual gratification.  Even if all that really counts for to you in an emotional sense is just "cleaning the pipes" and you don't *think* about anything sexy, necessarily... the physical act and response still amounts to the same thing.

 

To me, the people who could argue this remind me strongly of people who claim that they're still a virgin even though they clearly had partnered sex before, just because the sex wasn't enjoyable.  That's, uhh... not how virginity is defined.

[Galactic Turtle]

8 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

To me, the people who could argue this remind me strongly of people who claim that they're still a virgin even though they clearly had partnered sex before, just because the sex wasn't enjoyable.  That's, uhh... not how virginity is defined.

Oh my. @__@ There's actually this girl who was in my church group who got fired up about these two people dating because "kissing is oral sex." XD

[TheSmokingSkellie]

38 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

Yep, I've seen the exact same thing here and in other places where asexuality is discussed online: 'If you find anyone attractive you must want to have sex with them.. And even if you don't want to have sex with them that means you're just celibate, not asexual.. Asexuals can't find people attractive, that's the whole point - they might still want sex, but don't find anyone attractive. Just look at the definition of asexuality on AVEN if you don't believe me.'

 

*instantly goes to the shop to buy beer*

Oh my god the celibacy thing annoys the hell outta me. 

[Snao Cone]

I'm more concerned with how asexuality is widely understood than with who calls themselves asexual. I mean, I don't want people calling themselves asexual simply because they don't choose sexual partners based on society's beauty standards, but to counter that misrepresentation I would rather give a clear message about the concept than to point fingers at people. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are always going to be wacko ideas out there about what makes someone whatever special word they want to be. I'd prefer to talk about the topic than those specific people (who usually WANT to be "attacked" like that as part of the snowflake complex).

[LeChat]

In this video interview with AVEN founder, David Jay and Dr. Lori Brotto (who has studied the differences between asexual people, people with low sexual desire, and sexual peoples' arousal) discuss masturbation, at the 15:38 minute mark.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7su9nbRQdY

 

[Turtleslobber]

If someone says they're gay, I don't question them about it. If someone says they're straight, I believe them. To disagree with them would be "invalidating their feelings." Instead, believing that they know themselves well enough  to identify with an orientation and encouraging them to be themselves is generally accepted as the right thing to do. I just don't see why we apparently can't do the same with people who say they're asexual.

[Philip027]

I don't question things... unless there's outright evidence pointing to the contrary, which there often seems to be here with asexuality.

 

If asexuality is defined as "if you choose to identify as this, then that's what you are" it is a completely useless term that means nothing.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Turtleslobber said:

If someone says they're gay, I don't question them about it. If someone says they're straight, I believe them. To disagree with them would be "invalidating their feelings." Instead, believing that they know themselves well enough  to identify with an orientation and encouraging them to be themselves is generally accepted as the right thing to do. I just don't see why we apparently can't do the same with people who say they're asexual.

If a man says ''I'm gay, but I would literally never screw a man. Yuck. I literally only ever want to have sex with women because I love tits and vagina and have no interest in penis..eeew'' YOU may want to be politically correct and say ''yes you're most definitely gay, sir'' but most other people (especially in the gay community) will try to make that man aware that he has clearly misunderstood the definition of 'gay'.

 

Asexuality is a totally invalid and meaningless orientation label if 'anyone who wants to be asexual is asexual' in the same way homosexuality would be totally invalidated if literally anyone could be gay no matter which gender they desired partnered sexual activity (for pleasure) with.

 

Definitions exist for a reason, but the definition of asexuality is sadly repeatedly misunderstood, misinterpreted, and twisted to fit some people's politically correct agenda. This also reflects badly on how the ace community views regular sexuality, because it often shows a total lack of understanding (and refusal to try to understand) what it is that actually makes hetero/homo/bi/pan people sexual as opposed to asexual.

 

You yourself already explained asexuality in your opening post; no desire to connect sexually with others/no desire to have partnered sex/don't want to have sex with anyone. That's it. If you're now saying that literally anyone can be asexual just because they want to call themselves that without needing to adhere to any specific traits or characteristics (like not wanting to have partnered sex) then I'm not sure why you put such a clear and concise definition in your OP.