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Tarfeather

"No sex" is hard to deal with

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Tarfeather
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

she ups her game to keep you around and agonising over the crumbs you're being dropped.

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and I'm sure she cares about you in her limited way

It's baffling to me how you could have spent over a year on AVEN, and still not understand what it means for an asexual (or anyone) to offer up their body to somebody else. It's not something you'd do if you only cared about someone "in a limited way". It's not a "crumb".

 

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Take six months out from it, and follow through on whatever opportunities come your way. If they don't work out, go back to her. She's really unlikely to have found anyone else who will be as willing as you to put up with her distance in the meantime. 

I'm not actually in principle opposed to the idea of a relationship break, mostly because I think it might be good for her to get out of her shell and try to socialize with other people.. But the way you put that, is rather worrying, to be honest. Is that how you think of other people? Is that how you think of your partner?

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Serran
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

 

Take six months out from it, and follow through on whatever opportunities come your way. If they don't work out, go back to her. She's really unlikely to have found anyone else who will be as willing as you to put up with her distance in the meantime. 

Going to have to agree with Tar that this wording is so ... troubling. If Tar honestly feels like he can just dump her and go back at a whim cause she's not good enough to find anyone else and will be sitting around waiting, I'd recommend he leave her and never go back, cause that would show an utter lack of respect for her as a person. 

 

Now, if a relationship break to find out what they can both be without each other and if there are other prospects that might not be found while together out there, is decided... that is entirely different. 

 

 

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Telecaster68

Tar's been bending over backwards for years to accommodate his girlfriend, and it's making him miserable. Meanwhile, his girlfriend is content to withdraw emotionally unless he threatens to go, as she's getting exactly what she wants, thankyou. I'm not even particularly talking about sex, but all affectionate behaviour. He can choose to continue being miserable, or he can give himself a chance to not be in a relationship that's making him miserable.  Being endlessly selfless is fine if it makes you happy, but it clearly doesn't in this case.

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Telecaster68

As for the 'six month' thing - well, do you think she'll get embroiled in another relationship during that time? I don't.

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Treesarepretty
On 10/2/2017 at 9:04 AM, Tarfeather said:

As for us being friends, yes, this is true. She has no romantic or sexual feelings for me. It's also not that she's aromantic, in fact she has romantic feelings for one of my friends. She's very open about this. We're generally very open about our feelings.

 

She does need friends, and lately she's improved a lot on that aspect. When we got to know each other, she used to avoid everyone. A year or so ago, I started taking her to the local pub with my group of friends, and those meetings have become very important to her. She often says herself now that she wants to change her life and stop being so isolated, and I'm very happy for her and the progress she's making.

 

On 10/2/2017 at 9:04 AM, Tarfeather said:

I'm not looking for a monogamous relationship. Nor is my partner looking for a monogamous friendship (well, duh). Both of us might find other people in our lives who can give us things we can't give each other. But that's no reason for either of us to give up what we have in each other.

What is she looking for with you? Why are you insisting on romantic actions and romantic feelings from someone who only wants to be your friend? 

 

Sorry. I don't mean to sound accusatory. I am genuinly confused. 

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Treesarepretty

I think that @Telecaster68 means that @Tarfeather's girlfriend won't find anyone else due to her lack of interest in reciprocating affection rather than because she "isn't good enough." 

 

 

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Tarfeather
10 minutes ago, Treesarepretty said:

 

What is she looking for with you? Why are you insisting on romantic actions and romantic feelings from someone who only wants to be your friend? 

 

Sorry. I don't mean to sound accusatory. I am genuinly confused. 

Where do you get the idea that I'm insisting on romantic actions and romantic felings?

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Telecaster68
12 minutes ago, Treesarepretty said:

I think that @Telecaster68 means that @Tarfeather's girlfriend won't find anyone else due to her lack of interest in reciprocating affection rather than because she "isn't good enough."

 

Yes.

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Treesarepretty
1 hour ago, Tarfeather said:

Where do you get the idea that I'm insisting on romantic actions and romantic felings?

You said it earlier in the thread. 

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Treesarepretty
On 9/30/2017 at 2:06 PM, Tarfeather said:

The last three months of our relationship have been completely without sex. Three months. That's a rather steep drop from the somewhat consistent weekly arrangement we had before.

Why would someone who isn't interested in you sexually or romantically agree to a weekly sexual arrangement unless you insisted on it? 

 

On 9/30/2017 at 2:06 PM, Tarfeather said:

The problem is, I'm really torn on this. It's not like no sex is a complete dealbreaker for me. However, it's very close to that.

This is almost the definition of insisting on affection. Sex being the specific affection in this case. 

 

On 9/30/2017 at 2:06 PM, Tarfeather said:

And when the semester ended, and her stress dropped off, and still her affection for me didn't return.. Basically, I snapped, and demanded an extended breakoff of contact, to figure out whether I could be more happy without her.

This part reads like you threatened something very important to her, her friendship with you, in order to get sex. I assume you didn't mean it that way when you posted about it here and that I am confused in my reading, which is why I asked for clarification. 

 

On 9/30/2017 at 2:06 PM, Tarfeather said:

... which, in turn, seems to have been a complete surprise to my partner. She literally didn't understand "what she did wrong" (she didn't do anything wrong), or why I was unsatisfied with the relationship. And her lack of affection, did a 180 degree turn, back to where it was at at the best times of our relationship.

If I take it that she isn't interested in you sexually or romantically, then this reads like she is giving in to a threat to keep one of her few close friendships. 

 

On 9/30/2017 at 2:06 PM, Tarfeather said:

So, you see.. I have often expressed to my partner over these months how important sexuality is to me, and how much it hurts me to go without. But I never laid it out to her, that this might be a dealbreaker for the relationship.

Expressing how important this is to you over and over again is insisting on it unless you also explicitly said that you could go without it and would do so for her. 

 

I would like to know why you two are in a romantic relationship ("girlfriend" is a romantic term for our generation) when you appear to say, in this thread, that she isn't interested in you sexually or romantically and just wants to be your friend. I am convinced that I misunderstood part of this and I would like to know which part. 

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Sally
On 10/2/2017 at 9:04 AM, Tarfeather said:

She has no romantic or sexual feelings for me. It's also not that she's aromantic, in fact she has romantic feelings for one of my friends.

 

On 10/2/2017 at 9:04 AM, Tarfeather said:

 

What I crave isn't any verbal affirmation of love, but her touch, her gaze, her hugs that speak of caring about me and wanting me and not letting go of me, much better than words ever could.

OK, she has no romantic feelings for you, although she has those feelings for someone else, and yet you still want affirmation of love/touch/gaze/hugs that show you she wants you?  

 

Don't you think that's a bit unrealistic?  VERY unrealistic, in fact?  

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
4 hours ago, Sally said:
4 hours ago, Sally said:
On 10/3/2017 at 5:04 AM, Tarfeather said:

She has no romantic or sexual feelings for me. It's also not that she's aromantic, in fact she has romantic feelings for one of my friends.

 

4 hours ago, Sally said:
On 10/2/2017 at 9:04 AM, Tarfeather said:

 

What I crave isn't any verbal affirmation of love, but her touch, her gaze, her hugs that speak of caring about me and wanting me and not letting go of me, much better than words ever could.

OK, she has no romantic feelings for you, although she has those feelings for someone else, and yet you still want affirmation of love/touch/gaze/hugs that show you she wants you?  

 

Don't you think that's a bit unrealistic?  VERY unrealistic, in fact?  

Tar I couldn't find the original quote where you said this so I'm just quoting Sally

 

If she (your girlfriend, not Sally, lol) loves someone else, it could be extremely difficult to give you that affection you desire. For me personally, I know I'm only capable of desiring any kind of affection *with* the person I am romantically attracted to.. it would be literally painful to try to force myself to do that with someone else. Even just snuggling and eye gazing etc.. if you love someone else, you'd technically want those things with that person, and no matter how much your partner desires them it would be difficult to give them in the same way you would with the person you love.. if that makes sense? Obviously I can't speak for your girlfriend, it just sounds like what you want are the types of actions someone (even an ace) would prefer to do with someone they love, and you seem to be saying she has romantic feelings for someone other than you :S

 

Even if she was able to force herself to pretend so you could feel better, is that truly something you would want? Or would you rather be with someone who can actively desire to give you the real thing? :/

 

I hope this doesn't sound mean, I'm not trying to be harsh or anything, I just saw Sally's quote and hadn't realized that was actually the situation you were in. I assumed she was in love with you but was having trouble showing it.. I didn't realize it was someone else she loved.. Unless of course I have totally misread what's going on here, in which case, I apologize.

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wishing
On 10/1/2017 at 1:08 PM, Tarfeather said:

... so until the day comes around I find somebody who actually desires me sexually (which might be never), I will have to accept the situation as it is.

You're just sticking around until something better comes along? That is pretty unfair to both of you. First of all, you are less likely to find someone else while you are in this relationship. And she doesn't know that you're just being comfortable while hoping for something better.

 

It does seem you're pretty incompatible in more than one way, and that long-term, you would both be better off with a clean break. Yes, you will be lonely in the meantime, but that is a powerful driver to finding the right person. You sound like you're very young (university) and I hear in your comments that this is already dragging down your self esteem. I hope you will consider stopping this unhealthy relationship, for both your sakes.

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Tarfeather

Sorry that my response is so late. When I feel emotionally affected by something said here, I prefer to give myself some space and calm down. As tempting as it is, I'd rather not use AVEN as an emotional outlet, it's rather unhealthy for me.

 

On that note, while I value every opinion, including and sometimes especially those I heavily disagree with, I do believe personal accusations to be rather unhelpful. Discussing arguments based in reason is fine, defending myself from claims that were made based on feelings and opinions, with no strong evidence behind them, would frankly be a waste of time, because if you've already made up your mind to think negatively of me, there's a fair chance no amount of detail or nuance will convince you otherwise. So I'll keep this here strictly to addressing actual points made.

 

 

On 10/4/2017 at 8:46 PM, Treesarepretty said:

Why would someone who isn't interested in you sexually or romantically agree to a weekly sexual arrangement unless you insisted on it? 

You're moving the goalpost here. I said she has no sexual or romantic feelings (read: attraction) for me. That doesn't necessarily imply she has no sexual or romantic interest in me. If you can't understand that fine difference, you frankly are in no position to understand our relationship.

 

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Quote

The problem is, I'm really torn on this. It's not like no sex is a complete dealbreaker for me. However, it's very close to that.

This is almost the definition of insisting on affection. Sex being the specific affection in this case. 

Again, conflating romance with sex. Sex is often a romantic gesture, but not always. When I ask my partner for sex, I'm not asking her for romance, because I understand perfectly that for her it isn't a romantic act.

 

Also, I don't completely agree with your usage of "insisting" here. It's similar, but I don't think this is actually what the term means..

 

On 10/4/2017 at 8:46 PM, Treesarepretty said:

This part reads like you threatened something very important to her, her friendship with you, in order to get sex. I assume you didn't mean it that way when you posted about it here and that I am confused in my reading, which is why I asked for clarification.

Once again, that's not really an accurate way to put it, but there's some amount of truth to it. It's true that to her, my affection is really important, and that when I feel miserable in the relationship for long enough, that affection wanes. I wouldn't say that my affection wanes "in order to have sex with her", though, that'd be weird. It's more like I was previously making a conscious effort to keep my affection up, despite not internally feeling it as strongly, and when I "snapped" that was the point where I didn't feel comfortable making that effort anymore, and withdrew instead. You might consider it "threatening her in order to get sex",  and that's okay, but personally I just don't agree with that view.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 8:46 PM, Treesarepretty said:

Expressing how important this is to you over and over again is insisting on it unless you also explicitly said that you could go without it and would do so for her.

I.. Seriously, this is just too much. I'm getting tired of pointing out each and every of your tiny errors. I see now that all your posts follow a simple pattern, that of slightly misinterpreting everything I said, in order to come to a damning conclusion. I'm not "insisting" on sex with her. I'm not "threatening" her in order to have sex with her. It's true that the nature of our relationship moves us very close to that territory, and I have to be extremely careful with all this, thank you very much.

 

But at the end of the day, this isn't actually what's happening, and you need to stop trying to come to a specific conclusion based on your feelings. Look at the facts, try to understand the details, apply some nuance.

 

On 10/4/2017 at 9:29 PM, Sally said:

 

OK, she has no romantic feelings for you, although she has those feelings for someone else, and yet you still want affirmation of love/touch/gaze/hugs that show you she wants you?  

 

Don't you think that's a bit unrealistic?  VERY unrealistic, in fact?  

Not at all, considering she desires to do those things with me. It's strange that, on AVEN of all places, still some people apparently don't understand that romantic feelings aren't necessary to have a desire for sensual intimacy with someone.

 

 

On 10/5/2017 at 2:34 AM, FictoVore. said:

Tar I couldn't find the original quote where you said this so I'm just quoting Sally

 

If she (your girlfriend, not Sally, lol) loves someone else, it could be extremely difficult to give you that affection you desire. For me personally, I know I'm only capable of desiring any kind of affection *with* the person I am romantically attracted to.. it would be literally painful to try to force myself to do that with someone else. Even just snuggling and eye gazing etc.. if you love someone else, you'd technically want those things with that person, and no matter how much your partner desires them it would be difficult to give them in the same way you would with the person you love.. if that makes sense? Obviously I can't speak for your girlfriend, it just sounds like what you want are the types of actions someone (even an ace) would prefer to do with someone they love, and you seem to be saying she has romantic feelings for someone other than you :S

 

Even if she was able to force herself to pretend so you could feel better, is that truly something you would want? Or would you rather be with someone who can actively desire to give you the real thing? :/

 

I hope this doesn't sound mean, I'm not trying to be harsh or anything, I just saw Sally's quote and hadn't realized that was actually the situation you were in. I assumed she was in love with you but was having trouble showing it.. I didn't realize it was someone else she loved.. Unless of course I have totally misread what's going on here, in which case, I apologize.

Thanks for being genuine. Seriously. Even though you're saying some similar things, there's just a world of difference between coming up with a reply to this post, where I get the feeling you're actually trying to understand, and some of the other posts here.

 

Mm.. Let me just answer this way: For over 2 years of our relationship, she would never say that she "loves" me, because she is a very honest person, and she simply won't say anything that's untrue, even if it is to please me. Around half a year ago, our relationship was at a really high point, we'd been getting along really well with each other. We'd just been returning from the bar (where incidentally that friend she is in love with also had been with us), and we were about to say good bye. And basically, before saying goodbye for the night, we were staring into each other's eyes affectionately, and I ended up saying "I love you". It was just one of those "in the moment" things, nothing planned, nothing I expected a response to. And apart from a firm hug, she didn't respond.

 

Then, the next day we met again at my apartment, and just before she left.. basically, she ended up just standing there in the doorway. And she stared at me, this really deep gaze that seemed to capture me. And she ended up explaining, that she'd enjoyed the last day a lot, and also the good bye, and that she loved me, too. It's not something she'd fake. It's not something she'd say if she didn't feel it.

 

We've had some quarrels since then and some worse times, so I'm not sure where she stands these days. But our relationship definitely can be of that nature, where love is an accurate term to describe what we have, even if there aren't any romantic feelings on her end. It's just that for us, love means a really deep friendship, not romance or sex. And yet, we can care about each other as much as any romantic / sexual couple would.

 

I hope that answers your question. I know it must be difficult for someone who can only ever love one person to understand what our relationship is like, but I trust you'll take my word for it, just as I take your word for what you say about only being able to love one person, something which I previously found hard to believe.

 

 

On 10/5/2017 at 4:57 PM, wishing said:

You're just sticking around until something better comes along? That is pretty unfair to both of you. First of all, you are less likely to find someone else while you are in this relationship. And she doesn't know that you're just being comfortable while hoping for something better.

 

It does seem you're pretty incompatible in more than one way, and that long-term, you would both be better off with a clean break. Yes, you will be lonely in the meantime, but that is a powerful driver to finding the right person. You sound like you're very young (university) and I hear in your comments that this is already dragging down your self esteem. I hope you will consider stopping this unhealthy relationship, for both your sakes.

We're not a monogamous couple.

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Treesarepretty
2 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

I.. Seriously, this is just too much. I'm getting tired of pointing out each and every of your tiny errors. I see now that all your posts follow a simple pattern, that of slightly misinterpreting everything I said, in order to come to a damning conclusion. I'm not "insisting" on sex with her. I'm not "threatening" her in order to have sex with her. It's true that the nature of our relationship moves us very close to that territory, and I have to be extremely careful with all this, thank you very much.

 

But at the end of the day, this isn't actually what's happening, and you need to stop trying to come to a specific conclusion based on your feelings. Look at the facts, try to understand the details, apply some nuance.

Jesus Shitchucking Christ! man. The question was what your girlfriend gets out of her relationship with you. The way you wrote it here, it looked to me like you were trying to draw water from an empty well and getting mad when the bucket came up dry. I started with the assumption that I had gotten something wrong, and wanted clarification. 

 

2 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

I said she has no sexual or romantic feelings (read: attraction) for me. That doesn't necessarily imply she has no sexual or romantic interest in me. If you can't understand that fine difference, you frankly are in no position to understand our relationship.

...

 

... It's strange that, on AVEN of all places, still some people apparently don't understand that romantic feelings aren't necessary to have a desire for sensual intimacy with someone.

Both of these accurately describe my confusion, yes. This sort of thing is why I ask this sort of question. It is what I want help understanding. 

 

@Tarfeather, let me help you out here. This is how our exchange should have gone: 

 

Trees.  What is she looking for with you? Why are you insisting on romantic actions and romantic feelings from someone who only wants to be your friend? Sorry. I don't mean to sound accusatory. I am genuinly confused. 

 

Tar. I think you are confused about what constitutes romance and love in the context of our relationship. She does like doing these actions with me but does not desire sex or have a specific desire for romance with me. 

 

Fin. 

 

Here is how it did go: 

 

Trees. What is she looking for with you? Why are you insisting on romantic actions and romantic feelings from someone who only wants to be your friend? Sorry. I don't mean to sound accusatory. I am genuinly confused. 

 

Tar. Where did you get the impression that she is romantic/sexual with me? 

 

Trees. [Provides examples.] This is what confuses me. Clarify, please? 

 

Tar. That hurts me... You don't understand our relationship and shouldn't comment on it... You are moving the goalposts... [To @FictoVore.] Your post is different because it is honest, unlike some other posts, so here is a story that illustrates an answer to your question. 

 

Fin. 

 

I still am not sure that I understand your answer to my question. The answer I put in the first exchange is the closest I can come based upon what you have said to @FictoVore. and @Sally, but I am becoming frustrated with a request for information turning into an argument. The facts that you got so defensive right away--by asking where I could possibly get the idea that you insisted on affection--and that you then tried to focus on technicalities rather than just answering my question are starting to make me actually worry about your girlfriend. 

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AthenaFay

This situation seems so densely complex in terms of finding alternate meanings in the place of various unsatisfactory realities and truths, at the same time as bending the meanings of things to appear less painful than they truly are, while also trying to peddle this apparent lack of need for any kind of solution to what seems like an obvious set of problems to outsiders. I get the impression (from this post and subsequent responses) that a pro-gymnastic level of cognitive dissonance is going on in your relationship, to the extent where you can essentially talk your way out of anything that gives the impression that you are not in a suitable relationship, while at the same time making a case for exactly why it's unsuitable for you. It's like you want help, and yet you don't want to be told anything you don't want to hear.

 

The differences between you and her, your efforts to stay in the relationship, and your efforts to stay happy or satisfied, when the foundation is so skewed in favor of what you both want, has resulted in an environment that seems like an absolute pressure cooker. Meanwhile, you're saying things like this:

 

"until the day comes around I find somebody who actually desires me sexually (which might be never), I will have to accept the situation as it is."

 

I almost didn't understand how the responses here could leave you needing a break from this forum, and yet you're happy to continue in your day-to-day life in the extreme weight of expectation which is going on in your relationship, unless there was a sense of dependence or need toward the woman you are with, which seems possible, being as you aren't sure you'll ever have another relationship again, if you leave this one.

 

Even when factoring in your corrections to the comments you have scrutinized or torn down, there's still really not a world of difference in your clarification to what you originally said, or what was originally assumed or supposed, or the meat of the problem going on. So, long-winded faffing over terms and definitions aside, I think there's a very particular place you need to set your focus to, and it's on just that one sentence I quoted from you earlier. - How can you be absolutely sure that you're conducting yourself in a healthy way in this relationship, and behaving in a way becoming to what you truly want, or even in a way which is even just fair, or healthy even, when your desire to stay in it is rooted in such insecurity? It's like you're putting up with all of these intense personal differences on the hope of this woman essentially changing or becoming more like how you want her to be. This is actually pretty dangerous territory, for both of you. If I were you, I'd listen to all who have taken the time to muddle through this complicated situation to give you their input.  

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Tarfeather

Okay, this is some bullshit. Tar out.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
On 10/7/2017 at 10:00 AM, Tarfeather said:

 For over 2 years of our relationship, she would never say that she "loves" me, because she is a very honest person, and she simply won't say anything that's untrue, even if it is to please me. Around half a year ago, our relationship was at a really high point, we'd been getting along really well with each other. We'd just been returning from the bar (where incidentally that friend she is in love with also had been with us), and we were about to say good bye. And basically, before saying goodbye for the night, we were staring into each other's eyes affectionately, and I ended up saying "I love you". It was just one of those "in the moment" things, nothing planned, nothing I expected a response to. And apart from a firm hug, she didn't respond.

 

Then, the next day we met again at my apartment, and just before she left.. basically, she ended up just standing there in the doorway. And she stared at me, this really deep gaze that seemed to capture me. And she ended up explaining, that she'd enjoyed the last day a lot, and also the good bye, and that she loved me, too. It's not something she'd fake. It's not something she'd say if she didn't feel it.

 

We've had some quarrels since then and some worse times, so I'm not sure where she stands these days. But our relationship definitely can be of that nature, where love is an accurate term to describe what we have, even if there aren't any romantic feelings on her end. It's just that for us, love means a really deep friendship, not romance or sex. And yet, we can care about each other as much as any romantic / sexual couple would.

 

I hope that answers your question. I know it must be difficult for someone who can only ever love one person to understand what our relationship is like, but I trust you'll take my word for it, just as I take your word for what you say about only being able to love one person, something which I previously found hard to believe.

My personal opinion is that you seem quite unhappy with the situation you are in (when it comes to certain types of intimacy anyway) and it seems that you would definitely like to see more actions/gestures on her part that would make you feel loved by her even if the feelings she has for you aren't actually romantic. Friends can still express love to each other of course if they are both people who enjoy those types of actions with each other, whatever those actions might be (whether sex, kissing, snuggles, whatever)

 

BUT if she is unwilling to do them with you now, even though you know that sometimes she is perfectly capable of doing them, (or has been in the past) do you think she could subconsciously have lost interest in expressing those actions with you? Maybe even as a result of her romantic feelings for this other person despite the fact that she can love more than one person at once (though it sounds to me like you were saying she can experience different types of love at once, ie friendship love for you and romantic love for the other person, as opposed to romantically loving two people at once? And I am talking about the feelings themselves, not the actions).

 

On 10/7/2017 at 10:00 AM, Tarfeather said:

, so I'm not sure where she stands these days.

 

I didn't read all your posts here, but have you actually sat down and had a real convo with her (recently I mean) where you say ''I desire that you do _____, _____, and _______ with me, because I don't feel totally happy in this relationship without those actions. However, I also desire that you *want* to do them with me.. I don't want you to be doing those actions just to try to placate me. So, I am wondering, do you have anything inside you that wants to do those types of actions with me? Or do you have no interest in doing them with me?''. If she says something like ''I do want to be in a relationship with you, but I can't bring myself to do those things sorry'' then you are sadly in a position where you will either have to accept that you have to stay in a relationship with someone who doesn't share the same desires for certain types of intimacy that you do, OR maybe consider a trial separation or something like that. You could have a months break where you don't talk or contact each other while you both assess your feelings and desires, then talk about it again in a month? And if you still seem to be incompatible intimately (despite how things may have been in the past) it may be time to consider leaving her so she can be with someone who has the same lack of desire for intimate things that she does, and you can eventually pursue a relationship with someone whose intimate needs are more in line with your own? You could always remain friends who do not share intimacy (which is what you currently are I think?) but without the 'relationship' label?) then maybe you'd both find people you are more compatible with or eventually realize you are happier together regardless of the what is happening intimately between you?

 

8 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

Okay, this is some bullshit. Tar out.

I didn't see this until AFTER I typed all that, I hope you still get to read my post because my fingers had to work hard to make it!

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Tarfeather
On 10/8/2017 at 0:03 AM, FictoVore. said:

I didn't see this until AFTER I typed all that, I hope you still get to read my post because my fingers had to work hard to make it!

 

Hahah, I am very grateful to your fingers then. ;) I didn't read it, unfortunately, as I needed to seriously calm down after reading some of the things written here. But now I have read your entire post.

 

Hmm.. Some things have changed in our relationship since I created this thread. Actually, I think that's why I did create this thread, in order to ease myself into the decision I was going to make. Which is, no more sex in this relationship. And oddly I feel so much better now I've made that decision!

 

 As for other types of intimacy, I know she desires them, because she initiates them, and she'll be unhappy when we can't share non-sexual intimacy.

 

I also think, she's not entirely opposed to sexual things. But it's just so incredible weak on her side. Not enough for me to feel satisfied in any way. So that's why I've made that decision. When I think about it, one of the reasons our relationship crashed, was because she was trying so very hard to satisfy me sexually, and when she ended up not being able to keep up due to being asexual, I felt like she didn't love me. When in reality, she just couldn't keep up something that she didn't like doing in the first place.

 

Strangely, when I told her this, she offered to try some sexual compromise, because she doesn't want me to be unhappy. But I declined. I'm just at a point where I realize, she can't give me this. Not in any way.

 

I do love her. And I never really felt.. like myself, trying to do sexual things with her. But I couldn't get out of my skin. It's just too important to me. Now it's still as important to me, but it does not control me.

 

It's odd, really. Like having grown a different person inside myself over the past year. That person can have a life and be happy. But there's also this other person, who's deeply hurt, too hurt to open himself up to anyone. I actually recoil from this part of myself, it's so bleak. I don't really know what to do about that part of myself. But it's not like my partner is to blame. She's the only woman who really accepts me as I am, she can't help it that she's asexual.

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Homer

I stumbled upon an article: "How to have sex with an asexual person". Spoilered money quote:

 

Spoiler

In two words: GIVE UP.

 

That probably sounds counter-intuitive. Here’s the thing: asexual people who might be interested in having sex really need to know you are okay with not having sex in order to feel okay having it.

 

So give up. Genuinely give up trying to get them to have sex. And then you might have it.

 

Or you might not. But if you’ve genuinely given up on the idea, that won’t be a problem for you.

 

It looks like this is what Tar is going to do.

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Telecaster68

Hmmm.

 

Quote

if you’ve genuinely given up on the idea, that won’t be a problem for you

That doesn't follow. At all. You might give up on wanting your alcoholic friend to stop drinking in any meaningful sense, but it's still painful. As the sexual partner, there's still something missing from your life and your relationship, even if you have no hope or intention of changing it.

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Stoic_Rebuttal
4 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Hmmm.

 

That doesn't follow. At all. You might give up on wanting your alcoholic friend to stop drinking in any meaningful sense, but it's still painful. As the sexual partner, there's still something missing from your life and your relationship, even if you have no hope or intention of changing it.

I think what he means by "giving up" is "it's no longer the end-tier goal".

 

Let me explain. It's plausible for an asexual person to come to the conclusion that their partner is only in a relationship with them for their wiggly bits. In many respects, sexuality is a foreign concept to them. It would be like growing up without a nose, and not being able to understand why folks abso-fucking-lutely love the smell of fresh baked bread. In theory, by eliminating your own expressed desire for sex, you show them that you're there not for their pecker/happy-clam, but for their heart. In essence, you undertake a journey to their heart, but happen to make a pitstop at their hoo-hah on the way. By showing them that your be-all-end-all reason for staying with them is not to do the horizontal-mombo, but rather to do the... vertical cha-cha? Fuck this metaphor fell apart fast.

 

In my personal experience, I was only able to find love after I had given up looking for it. Perhaps Homer is suggesting the same applies to sex? I think it would heavily depend on the couple.

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Telecaster68
Quote

It's plausible for an asexual person to come to the conclusion that their partner is only in a relationship with them for their wiggly bits".

Plausible for them to come to that conclusion, but almost always wrong.

 

The original quote is:

 

Quote

Genuinely give up trying to get them to have sex.

... and then be okay when the result is you never have sex. If you were completely, totally, okay with never having sex, you'd be asexual, by definition, so in effect the writer is saying 'become asexual', which is about a practical and loving as a sexual saying 'become sexual'.

 

I'm saying you might come to accept and tolerate sex not being part of your relationship, and that on balance, your relationship is good and nourishing and want to continue with it. But if someone waved a magic wand and made your asexual partner sexual, you'd view it as restoring the relationship to what you always wanted it to be. On that level, its absence is a problem.

 

I read that piece a long long time ago, and much of it is toxic. It's extremely prescriptive, and kind of misses the point of sex entirely by making it totally about the asexual. I was going to pull it apart a bit, but it would take too long. There's just so much wrong with it, on so many levels. And the bits that are right, are nothing to do with asexuality, but apply to everyone.

 

 

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Tarfeather
6 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:
Quote

if you’ve genuinely given up on the idea, that won’t be a problem for you

 

That doesn't follow. At all. You might give up on wanting your alcoholic friend to stop drinking in any meaningful sense, but it's still painful. As the sexual partner, there's still something missing from your life and your relationship, even if you have no hope or intention of changing it.

The "not a problem" part was referring to having sex with that specific person. Not having sex at all is still going to be a problem, of course. However, not having sex with an asexual is kind of like not being able to drink rocks as a very thirsty person. Maybe it sucks if you're very thirsty and rocks is all you have, but semantically speaking, the fact that you can't drink rocks isn't really your problem, the fact that you don't have water is.

 

Not to say I'm defending the article, it's literally titled "How to have sex with an asexual", like wtf? If that's a question you want an answer to, then this article is not going to help you.

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Telecaster68
Quote

The "not a problem" part was referring to having sex with that specific person. Not having sex at all is still going to be a problem, of course

Yes, but it's an indication of the level of solipsism from its writer that she doesn't seem aware that no sex at all might be a problem for a sexual person, regardless of who it's not with.

 

Her answer to 'how to have sex with an asexual' is basically 'don't do anything that might imply you're enjoying it, or that might make the asexual realise you're having sex'. I think you're being overly harsh on even asking the question. There are asexuals on AVEN who genuinely quite enjoy sex and are happy to have sex with their partners. They just don't want it for themselves. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
9 hours ago, Homer said:

I stumbled upon an article: "How to have sex with an asexual person". Spoilered money quote:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In two words: GIVE UP.

 

That probably sounds counter-intuitive. Here’s the thing: asexual people who might be interested in having sex really need to know you are okay with not having sex in order to feel okay having it.

 

So give up. Genuinely give up trying to get them to have sex. And then you might have it.

 

Or you might not. But if you’ve genuinely given up on the idea, that won’t be a problem for you.

 

It looks like this is what Tar is going to do.

 

8 hours ago, Stoic_Rebuttal said:

I think what he means by "giving up" is "it's no longer the end-tier goal".

 

Let me explain. It's plausible for an asexual person to come to the conclusion that their partner is only in a relationship with them for their wiggly bits. In many respects, sexuality is a foreign concept to them. It would be like growing up without a nose, and not being able to understand why folks abso-fucking-lutely love the smell of fresh baked bread. In theory, by eliminating your own expressed desire for sex, you show them that you're there not for their pecker/happy-clam, but for their heart. In essence, you undertake a journey to their heart, but happen to make a pitstop at their hoo-hah on the way. By showing them that your be-all-end-all reason for staying with them is not to do the horizontal-mombo, but rather to do the... vertical cha-cha? Fuck this metaphor fell apart fast.

 

In my personal experience, I was only able to find love after I had given up looking for it. Perhaps Homer is suggesting the same applies to sex? I think it would heavily depend on the couple.

I was actually in this situation (well, one slightly similar) myself, so I do know that what Homer quoted is true under some circumstances! However, as Tele has pointed out, it would definitely only work for some people (and the article itself makes a lot of very incorrect assumptions about sexual people). Most sexual people would have trouble truly getting to the point of being okay without sex (in the same way most aces could not somehow become okay with lots of sex all the time - they could grudgingly accept it, but not *want it*)

 

I was identifying as asexual when I met my sexual partner (he was identifying as ace too - that's the catch), and knowing he had absolutely no expectation of having sex with me and would never ask for it or try to get it (despite the fact that he was capable of actively desiring it with me) was able to 'wake up my sexy demon' enough for me to begin actively exploring types of sex I might be able to enjoy with him. I now know that i was actually always sexual, but I can't want sex unless the other person doesn't expect it from me, ever, and will still be just as happy with me if we never have it.. then I'm actually like super kinky hypersexual haha!! However I think the writer in that article was assuming that getting to that state of 'giving up' could be quite easy for sexual people..whereas actually most would have quite a difficult time with that and probably still feel resentment or pain as a result. I know for me, I'd know if a partner was only *pretending* in the hopes of making me want sex as an end-goal, and that would make me pull back even more, unfortunately. So meeting someone who assumed they were asexual was what 'switched me on' because they were non-sexual enough to truly have very little interest in actually having sex, had never sought it out physically, and would still be happy to go without it if I didn't want it. For most sexual people though, I think all that could be quite painful and depressing! But I do agree that 'giving up' or 'just not wanting it' can switch some people who thought there were asexual from "no sex please" to sex demons haha!!

 

Also, I think in some cases the ace could be scrambling to try to initiate more sex out of fear their partner doesn't love them anymore, and out of worry of losing the person they love they try to become more sexual for a time..which is kind of sad for both people really :/ the sexual might get renewed hope of regular sex, and the ace ends up either stuck having to keep giving sex they don't want and pretending they do want it, OR going back to normal once the sexual partner seems happy again which would just leave the sexual person being back in a sexless situation. It would only work if the sexual truly has given up any expectation of sex, ever, and the asexual was actually less asexual than they actually thought (like me, lol)

 

Hopefully Tar giving up that expectation of it and coming to the acceptance of 'no sex' will help, though I think he's more saying 'no sexual stuff with her at all, even if she wants it' but still being open to sex with other people? (which is something quite different) is that correct @Tarfeather?


 

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Homer

CW: mentioning death

 

 

I feel a bit bad for throwing this link in here without any further comment, but I was getting ready for work as I posted and I left the elephant barn like three minutes later :D.

 

I completely understand all the things mentioned. Yet I think that the writer's intention in saying "give up" is different. This is where the CW comes into play.

Imagine someone close to you has passed away. There is no way they'll ever be back, there's no way you'll ever see them alive again, talk to them again, hug them. This will always be painful, no matter how much time has passed. Some days are better, some days are worse... but eventually you have to settle for the simple fact that they will not come back. You give up. You don't ever give up missing them, you don't give up wanting their company or wanting to talk to them one more time, but you give up the fight against accepting what can't be changed to be a given. It's fekkin hard and it will probably never be 100% done, but eventually you'll be functional again. (You'd still have to decide if this state of being functional is enough for you to remain in the relationship, but)

 

Note: This is just meant to illustrate my view on the quote, by no means am I comparing the impact of death with the impact of not having sex.

 

 

 

On 8.10.2017 at 0:03 AM, FictoVore. said:

However, I also desire that you *want* to do them with me

This is a trap. The moment you mention it, there's no way out. There's always that tiny little thought of "They're only doing this because I told them that I like it." You can't just ask someone to desire something and expect it to work.

 

 

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MrDane
On 17/10/2017 at 11:17 PM, Homer said:

CW: mentioning death

 

 

I feel a bit bad for throwing this link in here without any further comment, but I was getting ready for work as I posted and I left the elephant barn like three minutes later :D.

 

I completely understand all the things mentioned. Yet I think that the writer's intention in saying "give up" is different. This is where the CW comes into play.

Imagine someone close to you has passed away. There is no way they'll ever be back, there's no way you'll ever see them alive again, talk to them again, hug them. This will always be painful, no matter how much time has passed. Some days are better, some days are worse... but eventually you have to settle for the simple fact that they will not come back. You give up. You don't ever give up missing them, you don't give up wanting their company or wanting to talk to them one more time, but you give up the fight against accepting what can't be changed to be a given. It's fekkin hard and it will probably never be 100% done, but eventually you'll be functional again. (You'd still have to decide if this state of being functional is enough for you to remain in the relationship, but)

 

Note: This is just meant to illustrate my view on the quote, by no means am I comparing the impact of death with the impact of not having sex.

 

 

 

This is a trap. The moment you mention it, there's no way out. There's always that tiny little thought of "They're only doing this because I told them that I like it." You can't just ask someone to desire something and expect it to work.

 

 

...like that good ol' qoute, something like:

give me the strength to change what is wrong

the willpower to accept what cannot be changed

and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

(I am not that wise yet!)

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