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Sexual Wife/Asexual Husband - Truce!


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@TimeDelay, welcome to AVEN, and I’m glad you’re here for the community.  It’s a situation that is incomprehensible to many, and having folks around with whom you might connect is helpful. 

 

I’m short on time at the moment, but plan to respond later this evening.  It felt important to acknowledge your input. Thank you.  

 

In any case, keep reading.  2.5 years in, and I’m still learning things that shouldn’t be light bulb moments, but they are.

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Hi again @TimeDelay - So, to clarify, I’m about 2.5 years into discovering asexuality as an orientation.  AVEN gave that to me, which forever changed my life, and I’m grateful.

 

I will PM you shortly, but wanted to publicly express that my journey has morphed organically in ways that were downright inconceivable two years ago.  This thread is a relatively quick read, but please understand it’s been a longer journey walked.  It may appear seamless with a generally accepting husband, but it’s not that simple in reality.

 

Just the other day, I was thinking about how we’ve progressed. Early on, my lover asked what he could expect from me time wise: He asked if we could take dive trips?  Could we travel?  He wanted to actually date, not simply sleep together.  I was downright shocked.  Date? Travel? Hold hands? What?!? 😳

 

We’ve gone from that to actually planning trips, ALL of us together, and every step in between.   The point is that what may seem impossible for you today may not be tomorrow.  My focus is to remain flexible, sensitive, patient, honest and careful. 

 

It’s hard to understand how things have morphed this much, but it’s been organic and feels right.  It’s also still messy some times, but I wouldn’t change a thing.

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  • 1 month later...
CatsandDogs

Thank you @Traveler40 for your response to me and directing me to your story and this thread. I am glad that after such a long time you were able to find a solution that is fulfilling to you and works for your family.

 

Your comment above about falling in love with your lover is my fear about opening up my relationship. My asexual boyfriend and I have been together for two years. Before meeting him I dated a lot of men and had a very high sex drive (I still do!) and found that even though I enjoy sex and feel it is an important component of a relationship, I wanted to find something more. Enter my boyfriend who is great and brought to my life so many positive qualities that I quickly realized had been missing in previous relationships. We made out a few times during the first few months of dating but it was awkward and I could tell something was off. I thought it was his lack of experience or nerves. Over time he gave me a lot of different excuses for why things never progressed between us and eventually I stopped trying...the rejection was too painful for me. After about 10 months he finally told me about some past sexual experiences of his and how he felt uncomfortable or how his ex girlfriends had acted poorly at his inability to satisfy them. I thought that maybe he hadn’t been with the right partner. I thought maybe something traumatic had happened to him as a child. He had already tried to take “male performance supplements” to increase his drive and that wasn’t working so I encouraged him to seek professional help. He wouldn’t touch me at all. I think that was what was worse than the lack of sex. You never realize how just simple  touching (a hand on your leg or a hand on your shoulder or being close to each other in bed) means until it’s not there. He didn’t want to talk about it but told me the therapist told him to just “keep trying” so I thought we would. I told him I didn’t want him to do things that made him uncomfortable so I would leave it up to him to initiate. He never did. He will kiss (a quick peck) and hug me hello and goodbye or before bed or when we wake up but nothing else happened so I just tried to focus on other aspects of our relationship and to be supportive by not pressuring him. But every night I went to bed feeling alone and it reminded me a lot of feelings of grief...like waking up I’d be happy and excited for the day until my eyes adjusted to the light and I’d remember and feel crushed. A talked to a couple close friends who couldn’t understand but I have a good sense of humor and tried to laugh it off as just another sexless relationship troubles. Compared to some friends’ husbands or boyfriends I felt lucky. We celebrated holidays and anniversaries and communicated (about everything except sex). I felt happy in our relationship. I know in my head he loves me but in my heart I don’t feel it the same. I thought maybe we had different “love languages” so I asked him to do that test. I got flash cards and took every intimacy quiz I could find online. But even though some times he would indulge me and participate it never felt like it mattered to him. He says things like “we’ll figure it out” but because we don’t I feel brushed off. 

 

Two nights ago we went to bed after a boring day of being trapped in the house because of bad weather. I’ve been feeling more insecure about our relationship lately and wanted to snuggle up together while we watched movies from different seats. He made excuses for why he wouldn’t come sit with me. He pet the cat and I made a joke about why he wouldn’t pet me. When we went to sleep he kissed me and said goodnight and rolled over with his back to me. And I just got so upset. I felt invisible and angry and just defeated. I got up and slept on the couch until dawn when he came downstairs and asked me to come back to bed. I told him how I felt but I felt like he should have known why I was upset already. We have had this conversation but nothing ever changes. I went back to bed with him but he didn’t touch me and after half an hour of laying there stewing alone in my feelings I got up for the day. A while later he came downstairs and was petting the cat and I asked how he can be so affection to the cat and not me. We had a very intense yet productive conversation in which he told me that he has never felt sexual attraction to anyone. I don’t think he knew the term asexual but I have friends in the LBGTQ community who have talked openly to me about their sexuality and the term has come up. I realized then and there that sex is not something that will happen between us. I don’t think anything more ever will because I think he is struggling deeply with his own feelings about sexuality or his lack thereof. I know he feels like a failure and that he has wasted my time but I don’t feel like our getting to know each other or our relationship has been a waste. I love him and think this has been a wonderful relationship, but I don’t know how to move forward. I started doing some research and came across this group and am so glad that I did because I have learned more about the asexual experience and now realize that he isn’t brushing me off...he just does not understand the importance of sex in my life because in his it is not important. 

 

Even before this revelation, for a few weeks now, I have thought about asking him to have an open relationship. A friend of mine did with her long term partner (for other reasons, they are now broken up) and I also know a woman who was a third in another couple’s relationship for a while. I always felt like an open relationship wouldn’t work because it was just a bandaid on a problem that couldn’t be solved or wasn’t being solved. But now that I am in this situation I don’t know how I feel. The heartbreaking thing is that I love him, he is my best friend, and I am also in love with him. I desire him and want to share the experience of making love with him. But I know it would be painful for him and I would never want that to happen. I feel guilty asking to open the relationship because I feel like he won’t understand how important sex is to my feelings...but also because I don’t want to have those feelings with anyone but him. I feel that if I started a sexual relationship with someone else I would fall in love with that person and eventually end my current relationship to be with that person full time. I am only in my 30s. 

 

I feel like my boyfriend has had exgirlfriends do this to him. Maybe not openly or ethically but I think that’s part of why he is not as invested in finding a solution to address my needs: his experiences have taught him that he will disappoint me and I will find someone else and move on, leaving him with a broken heart. That’s not at all what I want but if being together fully and completely (sexually) is not an option, I don’t know what else to do other than to just end our romantic relationship and try to refocus on being just friends. 

 

This is all very new to me and because he is struggling with his identity I don’t want to discuss this any longer with my IRL friends so any advice or feedback here is greatly appreciated. 

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1 hour ago, CatsandDogs said:

I always felt like an open relationship wouldn’t work because it was just a bandaid on a problem that couldn’t be solved or wasn’t being solved.

This is correct.  While my lover allows my relationship with my husband to breathe, he’s really giving the gift of a unified family to my children.  Rather than solving things, my relationship with my lover has highlighted the underlying issues in our marriage.  He has taught me that I can never be whole, or wholly fulfilled, in my current relationship with my husband.  I’ve said before that my lover fixed things in me that were broken, but also broke things that were previously undisturbed. Taking a lover isn’t an easier route, it was just *my* best option. I have no regrets.

 

While it’s hard to see, it may make sense to seriously consider alternative measures in *your* situation. You’re young, haven’t had a family together and are barely off the ground. It never gets easier and will not improve as far as having your needs met. I would seriously think about that. It seems tough, but can you imagine how tough it will be 3 decades from now?  Just a thought. 

 

1 hour ago, CatsandDogs said:

The heartbreaking thing is that I love him, he is my best friend, and I am also in love with him. I desire him and want to share the experience of making love with him.

It is heartbreaking, and what you want and need isn’t part of that deal in the way you’d like it.   What you both need is fundamentally different.  It’s a tough truth, and I’m so sorry. 

 

1 hour ago, CatsandDogs said:

I feel guilty asking to open the relationship because I feel like he won’t understand how important sex is to my feelings...

These are things only you two can decide and discuss together, but this is way cart before the horse.  Your options are find a compromise, live in celibacy, open the relationship or leave.  Either way, all of this needs to be discussed with your boyfriend. Throw it all on the table, and hash it out together.  Communication is key here, and that can only be had together

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CatsandDogs

Thank you @Traveler40 for being so honest and open. I know I should let this relationship go and take the risk of being single and seeing if we can just be friends. It’s hard to actually do though because anyone I’ve talked to before this hasn’t been in my situation and I know lots of couples who are less happy than we are. I know lots of people in sexless marriages. But I also know that I owe it to myself to keep trying to find a complete love where I am seen and valued for who I am, and part of who I am is being a sexual person. I’ve never broken up with someone I was still in love with before. I really appreciate your perspective because you do understand and also have decades of experience in this that I don’t have. Thank you for sharing this all with me.

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  • 1 month later...
Onlyloversleftalive
On 10/4/2018 at 4:41 PM, Onlyloversleftalive said:

@Traveler40

 

I stumbled on this thread on accident and was hoping it was still current as I clicked through the pages.

First and foremost thank you so much for sharing your story. I am certainly a couple of continents away but share your experience almost to the T.

 

I have been with my husband 10 for years, 13 counting breaks and in between. 

Though it happened progressively as he was extremely sexually active in the beginning, it started tapering off 2 - 3 years into the relationship. He's almost lost all interest now. I believe this is because we got together young and he was still experimenting with how he was meant to feel, though he did very much enjoy it to his own admittance. Not sure if he could qualify as asexual as he once had the desire and no longer does?

 

I am now 32 years old and he is 33. We don't have any children yet as I am afraid to commit even further in the current state.

I have always been a very sexual person, in my general body language and ways. I love with my body and am a very touchy person. 

 

I have had men around me - circumstantially and mostly due to work that I've enjoyed flirting with and being around but have not gone too far with it as we hadn't discussed the prospect of opening up the relationship until recently. I found out I had been closing this part of myself off subconsciously as not to hurt his feelings and bring it up too often.

 

When I asked him only a few months ago whether he thinks he might be asexual he said perhaps he might be. I told him I don't blame him for feeling the way he does and that I'm just drained. I love him regardless and we have a wonderful relationship. I can only blame him for letting it slide all of these years because of his fear of dealing with the emotions and guilt head on. He has apologized for this and told me he's found it difficult to accept, acknowledge and verbalize. 

 

He has never really stopped me from being around other men as he understands that is a big part of me. Though everything I've read about open relationships online implies it is better not to have any issues in the primary relationship, meaning I'm scared of taking that route and having it affect my husband in ways he doesn't realize. I just don't know how it's logistically feasible or possible to have to split up my time with a lover for example without it hurting his feelings as he'd be having to share my time. 


After reading your story I feel it is in fact as complicated as I imagined it to be, as feelings might come into the way. Like you, I am emotional first and then sexual, I crave the mental connection and one night stands don't do it for me nor do I have interest in them. 

 

To top it all off, we live in a pretty conservative part of the world, so even if I did want to find a second partner I wouldn't even know how to go about it or where to start. I cannot make a public profile on tinder or the likes as people in our circles might recognize me which would hurt my husband. I've lived with this burden for the past few years unable to really talk to anyone about it as he is not comfortable with me sharing this information with any of my or our friends.  He understandably fears how others would view him and his masculinity. 

 

Sorry if my thoughts are all over the place, haven't really verbalized this to anyone before so I'm just writing as it comes to me. Just sharing makes me feel a little better, so does the knowledge that I am not alone. Thanks for reading.

 

Hi Everyone 

 

Not sure if you remember my above initial post. It has been almost exactly a year since I shared on this forum. Quite a lot has gone down since.

 

A common and very close friend of both mine and my husband's admitted his long standing feelings to me around the time of my first post.

In hindsight I think he must have felt the space to share how he had felt all of these years because I was seeming more susceptible, the more desperate I got.

 

After having a long conversation with my husband about my inability to deal with the status quo any longer, I told him that I wanted to try and be with "Joe", because he was a well intended friend we both knew and had genuine feelings for me, in addition to the fact that he also loves my husband like a brother, which meant it would a safe and private environment we could all share.

 

After talking about how we thought it would go down, we started officially "dating" in January. We had 8 beautiful months of intimacy, connectedness and fun times, even going as far as hanging out the 3 of us happily several times a week. For a while everything seemed to be going well.

 

My husband expressed concern over my relationship with Joe developing further throughout the months, about how much time I was spending with him or how often I was texting him when we weren't together - to be fair he was partially right.
After so many years of "neglect" I was feeling invigorated in every way possible and that translated very clearly in my behavior. The more attached I became to Joe the more my husband withdrew from me. I tried to keep an open conversation going between us and kept stressing that this is something we were doing together rather than something I was doing in spite of him but it just seemed to be getting more painful for him to talk about.

 

A couple of weeks ago he had a meltdown about how this wasn't working for him anymore and how he feels we have lost our emotional intimacy as a result of being in this "trifecta" as he calls it. He says he can no longer continue with this arrangement and wants me to cut it short. He said his confidence has been hit and he has been suffering in silence while trying to go along with what was clearly making me happy until he no longer could.  And I believe this has brought up other issues that had been underlying as well such as me being a more demanding partner in general versus him being a lot more low maintenance.

 

We discussed going to couple's therapy to talk it out with a professional as we both feel too hurt to do it on our own at this point. We are planning on starting next month.

 

I cannot imagine going back to a life in which I have to cage my desire for an emotional connection through physical intimacy and all that entails. I have no idea how I am going to manage cooling it with Joe as my emotions have developed quite a bit and I now feel I love them both. I don't know if it's even fair for him to expect me to just cut it short but then again I know it isn't right for him to force himself to be hurt eternally. But what about my hurt and patience for years? :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Onlyloversleftalive
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2 hours ago, Onlyloversleftalive said:

After reading your story I feel it is in fact as complicated as I imagined it to be, as feelings might come into the way. Like you, I am emotional first and then sexual, I crave the mental connection and one night stands don't do it for me nor do I have interest in them. 

Welcome back - I’m sorry to hear it’s gotten so complicated.  As I’ve noted in the past, more people, more problems. As well, opening a relationship leads you to see your current relationship with new (not always flattering) eyes.

 

Originally, it seemed understood that this might happen as the quote from your initial post above denotes.  There are no clear answers.  I read somewhere, perhaps here on AVEN, that the danger in opening relationships happens when all parties no longer want to stay on board and remain part of a trio. As obvious as that sounds, when upon it, it must be devastating. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Onlyloversleftalive said:

I cannot imagine going back to a life in which I have to cage my desire for an emotional connection through physical intimacy and all that entails. I have no idea how I am going to manage cooling it with Joe as my emotions have developed quite a bit and I now feel I love them both. I don't know if it's even fair for him to expect me to just cut it short but then again I know it isn't right for him to force himself to be hurt eternally. But what about my hurt and patience for years? :(

 

I feel for you, and likewise cannot go back into the box. It’s a half life in my opinion and a price I’m no longer willing to pay. The options aren’t easy, but you have to figure out what’s best for you and your life. Hopefully the couples counseling will give you the clarity you seek.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you so much to everyone sharing on this thread - an open relationship has been suggested by my asexual wife. I really have no idea how I would cope or more to the point how I would go about finding one! 

All advice welcomed!

Has anyone pursued anything online to address sexual needs? Something more than just porn but not quite as full on as actually meeting people in real life?

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@S Tiger Welcome and you’re welcome.  I’ve noticed that more focus and attention is generally given to sexual compromise between the parties in the mixed relationship as opposed to opening it.  However, if you’ve tried and failed at compromise, celibacy has run its course, and divorce is not the better option, it’s a consideration in my opinion. It’s not for everyone, but if executed carefully can work. I know this first hand.  

 

One of the harder parts is what you seek. How does one go about finding this? I can report that I am not unique and communicate with a few others that have eerily similar outcomes.  A couple of them found their lovers online, one I know found their lover in person at a meeting about polyamory, and I found my lover by posting an ad. Basically, it can come in many different ways and a bit of luck is part of it. You have to be open, looking, tenacious and know exactly what you seek. On top of that, you must be able to communicate that. Don’t waste anyone’s time and be crystal clear about your situation and intentions. Also, know that whatever you enter into will morph. Sometimes, it morphs in unimaginable ways!  Be flexible, frank and sincere with all involved.

 

Lastly, I’m sorry I don’t know how to speak to finding an online only connection. I needed the holding. All the best in your search! 

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  • 1 month later...

It’s been some time since I’ve posted an update and felt it would be a good time to do it as it’s on my mind, and I’m flying high off a fantastic night with my lover. No news is generally good news and overall, we are coasting.  Here’s a closer look broken down for simplicity:

 

My Husband:

He is generally in a funk. As chronicled here, he had a rough go recently while trying to participate together in a hobby my lover and I share. Additionally, while cancer free, he has not yet regained his ability to get an erection.  This is a major thing for him emotionally even though he never used it sexually.  He has mentioned that he is both frustrated and unhappy about it and says, “Even if I wanted to do something I can’t!”   Well, he hasn’t wanted sex in over a decade and only did it a handful of times in the decade before that, yet having the option removed has clearly created some inner angst. I’m not sure what to make of this.

 

Recently, he sat me down with the intent to ensure I knew how much he loved his family, that he never wants it to change and became choked up about the idea. I couldn’t promise status quo forever, but did seek to reassure him of our lives now. Our focus has been to keep the family together, and I reiterated what we discussed previously: We are in control of ourselves within our relationship and while it’s been a tough year, maintaining our connection is critical.  He is struggling with this given his current mindset of loss, so we have discussed finding a counselor.  Yes, he’s down in the dumps and definitely needs time to work through his year of serious health issues, bodily changes and making room for my lover, who has become an ever deeper part of our lives. 

 

He has come to value my lover if not fully accept him. He respects him and includes him in our lives. My husband is a fantastic person, an amazing father and a devoted husband. I hope, with time, he can find his balance again.  It’s not all dire - he mainly says he is happy overall and will work through these issues.

 

My Lover:

He is amazing and a massive force in my life. The value of emotional intelligence in a relationship can’t be overstated, and it’s because of him that we manage the gauntlet so well. He threads the needle of time and relationships so perfectly with our family that it’s seamless. I never think I can love him more, but am constantly proven wrong.

 

He is a huge addition to our lives in every way. This afternoon he plans to meet our son and spend one-on-one time with him. First, he plans to give him the sex talk. It’s time, I botched it with too much, and my husband tried but got lost on the question and answer time. There’s simply no one better to supplement this and our son took to the idea with exuberance: He sees it as a “man talk”. Second, they will work on cleaning up some math issues and learning a few tricks. Yes, I depend on this wonderful man in ways that were not fathomable 2 years ago.  He is nothing but additive to our family.

 

Me:

I am doing well if not torn in some way deep down.  My family is my world, but my lover is my life. Does that make sense? I love everything about him; We are a perfect fit.  This isn’t fleeting, it’ll be three years in March. (Wow, can’t believe I just typed that...3 YEARS!) I have no regrets.

 

I can’t imagine that I ever lived as I did before. This open situation isn’t perfect, and I have had to become adept at living for the now, but it’s far better than living as I did before finding my lover. Those were lonely, dark and endless times.
 

I worry. I somehow don’t want time to move on as we seem to have found a balance and can live decision free.  It’s delusional in a way, but it works, even if it’s just for now. My kids need to continue to have the life that they do with their parents in place. My lover has given us that gift. He’s also brought love, light, fun and hope in ways I didn’t know before him. 
 

He’s also shined a light on things I wished had stayed dark, but it’s brought an honesty to my life that I will forever be grateful for.  Life is fuller, richer, deeper and infinitely better. I hope the seas stay calm...

 

The Kids:

They are fantastic and have a wonderful life. We are so proud of them and maintain them as the center - Collectively.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Thanks to @anisotrophic, I’ve been inspired to add a few links below to posts I’ve made in other threads that I feel should be included here as part of the ongoing story:

 

Pertinent Background Information:

Here and Here


Random Associated Thoughts:

1. HereFollow on

2. Another here, And here

3. Furthermore (a few thoughts, so keep reading.)

4. Reflection

5. Reflection on opening

6. Tangential Thoughts

7. Moments in time

8. We have always been stuck at #2

 

Brief, unfortunate event:

Entire thread here

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  • 1 month later...

Random thoughts on a rainy Saturday morning:
 

Mixed relationships can be heartbreaking. I’ve been feeling euphoric all week due to the intense and thrilling emotional, sexual and mental connection with my lover, but there’s this inescapable sadness lurking at the back of my mind as well.
 

My husband is a profoundly good man who does nothing but live to meet the needs of our family. I appreciate him so much, his role within our family unit and our life together. I also feel deeply sad. I wonder, does he realize what he’s missing, has missed? Is it part of the aro/ace existence that ignorance is bliss? (Is it even correct to say ignorance as it’s not exactly that?)

 

After all of my time on AVEN, I still can’t quite

grasp the fact that what is so vital to me (my sexual nature) is completely nonexistent to him. Beyond that, the very absence of it leaves a gulf so vast between us that I don’t understand how he feels connected. He definitely does, but it seems so much “less than” from a different perspective. Life with a sexual partner (my lover) is so vibrant and rich that it’s hard to wrap my brain around life forever without it. I accept him, yet still don’t fully understand him.

 

In other words: The depth and breadth of connectedness with another sexual is so intrinsic to who I am, that I can’t grasp life, or life worth living, without it. 
 

Last night, we all wanted something different for dinner so we went to the mall. As we sat there, we talked about many things as families do. It was pleasant, routine, and comforting. I enjoyed our family time as always, yet at the back of my mind was the thought of my lover’s lips. I couldn’t stop yearning for his touch, a repeat of our tryst from earlier. It was deeply connecting. He will forever be burned into my mind and heart.
 

Our bond is so complete that I felt like I had been out cheating on my husband. I felt a sadness and regret for what never was with him. He really doesn’t know, can’t fully know even if I were to describe it. I wish he could know as it’s just that mind blowing. I want that for him in life, and don’t want to feel bad for its absence (or alternate existence with my lover) and all that means within the context of a mixed relationship.
 

It’s bittersweet for sure.

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AceMissBehaving
31 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

i  also feel deeply sad. I wonder, does he realize what he’s missing, has missed? Is it part of the aro/ace existence that ignorance is bliss? (Is it even correct to say ignorance as it’s not exactly that?)

 

After all of my time on AVEN, I still can’t quite

grasp the fact that what is so vital to me (my sexual nature) is completely nonexistent to him. Beyond that, the very absence of it leaves a gulf so vast between us that I don’t understand how he feels connected. He definitely does, but it seems so much “less than” from a different perspective. Life with a sexual partner (my lover) is so vibrant and rich that it’s hard to wrap my brain around life forever without it. I accept him, yet still don’t fully understand him.

 

I can only speak for myself, but  I don’t really see myself as missing out on anything, I just fill my cup from different places, and pour it into different things.
 

When I consider myself on my own terms I find myself to be a deeply passionate person, but when I consider myself through a sexual society’s lens I worry that I’m cold. I think the first perspective is the accurate one. I don’t feel less, I feel differently. Perhaps it’s the same for your husband?

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8 minutes ago, AceMissBehaving said:

I think the first perspective is the accurate one. I don’t feel less, I feel differently. Perhaps it’s the same for your husband?

I hope so. Thanks for that.

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50 minutes ago, AceMissBehaving said:

I can only speak for myself, but  I don’t really see myself as missing out on anything, I just fill my cup from different places, and pour it into different things.
 

When I consider myself on my own terms I find myself to be a deeply passionate person, but when I consider myself through a sexual society’s lens I worry that I’m cold. I think the first perspective is the accurate one. I don’t feel less, I feel differently. Perhaps it’s the same for your husband?

I mean, honestly, I love the sexual connection with my wife but I also dont see it as any superior to an ace connection. So. I think your first one is accurate. Sex is just one way to show an intense love for someone... there are so many. Doesnt make the experience any less intense. 

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1 hour ago, AceMissBehaving said:

I don’t really see myself as missing out on anything, I just fill my cup from different places, and pour it into different things.

Same.  You (@Traveler40) have clearly found something that you’re deeply passionate about, and it’s understandable that you’d want to somehow spread that to or share that with people you care for, but it’s not true that it’s a universally-shared passion.

 

I’m glad for you that you’re enjoying it so much, and I agree that your life would not be complete with out it... but some people’s lives are.

 

Most people have probably had the experience of listening to/reading someone describing what they believe is their penultimate experience.  Sometimes we listen and think “wow, that sounds wonderful, I’m so envious!” and other times we listen and think “okay, that makes my skin crawl, but good for you?”

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14 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

Same.  You (@Traveler40) have clearly found something that you’re deeply passionate about, and it’s understandable that you’d want to somehow spread that to or share that with people you care for, but it’s not true that it’s a universally-shared passion.

 

I’m glad for you that you’re enjoying it so much, and I agree that your life would not be complete with out it... but some people’s lives are.

 

Most people have probably had the experience of listening to/reading someone describing what they believe is their penultimate experience.  Sometimes we listen and think “wow, that sounds wonderful, I’m so envious!” and other times we listen and think “okay, that makes my skin crawl, but good for you?”

I hear you and understand that the gulf is there. It’s real and sad for me. That skin crawling you point out is what separates and can never be bridged which is what I was ultimately lamenting. 
 

Edit: You can live and be alone and not worry about bridging gaps, but I choose my husband and family for tangible reasons. This mixed existence is full of many feelings, one of which is deep sadness at times. 

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I guess my point is... it’s sad *for you* that your husband has no interest in sharing something that’s so meaningful for you... but if he wasn’t in a relationship with you (where the difference makes things complicated) it wouldn’t be sad for him at all.  His life isn’t incomplete or lacking or inferior without it.

 

His experience of being without it is very different than yours is.

 

It’s not vastly different from how some people cannot fathom how a life without children could possible measure up (or one *with* children, or without religion, or without creating art, or whatever happens to speak deeply to them).  For them, it wouldn’t... but for some other people it does.

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*shrugs* maybe for some, but I know my husband. He wishes he could better connect perhaps? He carries a loneliness and sadness that I can see at times. He can tend to fight life versus flow with it. 
 

I may seem to be assuming my feelings on to him (which I am to an extent sure), yet I don’t know another way (or activity) that might fill that gap for him. Anyhow, it’s a bit of supposition on how it might be for him on both ends perhaps. 

 

In general? You’re likely right. Perspective is a funny thing.

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31 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

He carries a loneliness and sadness that I can see at times.

You probably both carry some loneliness and sadness due to caring a great deal about one another but also knowing you will never “click” the way you might want to, no matter how hard you try.

 

You do seem to be projecting your feelings onto his situation/him, which was my point, but I’m probably doing some of the same... it grates on me whenever someone tells me how miserable and/or lacking my life is because it’s missing something (I don’t want) they have or aspire to.  Of course, that doesn’t actually apply here because you’re talking about him and not me.

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Traveling would actually be a good example.  Some people absolutely adore it.  It brings them unparalleled joy.  Their lives would not be anywhere near as rich and fulfilled without it.

 

There are doubtless people who, for whatever reason - lack of resources, competing responsibilities, health, simple lack of awareness, etc. - *would* be among the adoring group but are not/cannot be.

 

It makes sense to feel sad for these people.  Their lives are lacking something important and deeply enriching.

 

Other people are “meh” towards travel... or flat-out don’t like it.  It *doesn’t* bring them joy.  They’re genuinely happier when they don’t have to do it.

 

They’re not missing out on a wonderful experience if they don’t travel.  They are indulging in something they like better:  *not* traveling.

 

To me they’re not people to pity.  They just have different preferences.

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Yes, but should the person who loves to travel unwittingly marry someone one who doesn’t, is it then so problematic for them to wish their partner would?  What if the very thing that separates them, fundamentally alters the potential of their present and future happiness?

 

Travel is not a basic human need. It’s a human experience to have or not, but sex is seen as a need for many. It’s part of the deal of marriage generally. It’s what separates friendship from lovers. And the merry-go-round begins anew...

 

I get great joy out of the connection had from sexual contact and wish it could have been with my husband. It wasn’t until 15 years into our relationship that I discovered asexuality. When we married, the sexual component was expected, anticipated and is most definitely lacking.  
 

Yes. I wish he could have experienced that which I do as a couple and life partner. That’s my innermost thought and feeling. He does not and cannot. I feel badly for that in its entirety. Interestingly, I don’t wish that WITH him anymore. My earlier post was more a passing thought on what could have been and sadly is not. I now experience that quite happily elsewhere.
 

Furthermore, the joy had within that relationship is so life altering, I want my husband to have that in his own life in whatever way he can. I wish him that joy and am sometimes nostalgically sad we couldn’t get there together. 

 

It’s not an argument Ryn, it’s a fact. It’s how I feel and see it within my relationship.

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Totally agreed it’s a problem within relationships where the people involved don’t want or need the same thing.  To me, feeling sad about the incompatibility - or feeling sad for yourself about the unbridgeable gap - is very different than feeling sad for the other person because they miss out on the thing.

 

I’m not saying you can’t feel however you feel.

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14 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Totally agreed it’s a problem within relationships where the people involved don’t want or need the same thing.  To me, feeling sad about the incompatibility - or feeling sad for yourself about the unbridgeable gap - is very different than feeling sad for the other person because they miss out on the thing.

 

I’m not saying you can’t feel however you feel.

Yeah, no matter how it’s put, it still feels verbally incompatible with what I’m saying and feeling. You’re trying to put it in a succinct little box for yourself perhaps?
 

Frankly, I mainly felt sad for what could have been as we had dinner at the mall last night.  I was reflecting on that this morning and understand that the levels of joy experienced this week separate from him made me think. It seems to have struck a chord within you as well for whatever reason. 
 

Nostalgia, coulda/shoulda/woulda are real. It’s not so much feeling sorry for him or myself, but more of a wish it had turned out as I hoped it would so many years ago.  We are coasting as is these days.  I am very much in love and neither know nor worry about how that will end up. When particularly poignant moments occur separately from my husband, it trips feelings within.

 

I am undoubtedly experiencing levels of joy he likely never has, at least with me, and I do wish that he will, in whatever way possible, someday. 

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32 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

Yeah, no matter how it’s put, it still feels verbally incompatible with what I’m saying and feeling. You’re trying to put it in a succinct little box for yourself perhaps?

You expressed sadness over what he was missing.  I agreed with the other posters who said he’s probably not missing anything; just finding what he needs in different ways.

 

The part that was about me was getting mildly offended on his behalf because it sounded like you were pitying him over it.

 

I completely agree it’s sad overall that you both ended up in a situation that’s not ideal.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

I am undoubtedly experiencing levels of joy he likely never has, at least with me, and I do wish that he will, in whatever way possible, someday. 

Being asexual and experiencing "levels of joy" in things other than sex, to me what you said sounds a bit patronizing.  It seems unlikely that he doesn't feel that coming from you.  

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The 'levels of joy' thing is entirely subjective, so we can't know, in those words. But like Traveler, I find it almost impossible to see how anything else can do all the stuff sex does for sexuals. Not saying there isn't any thing as intense, I just can't see, even if on a mechanical level, how that would work.

 

Saying 'we can't directly share experiences so saying one experience misses elements of another experience is patronising', sounds to me like someone who's never drunk caffeinated coffee insisting that it's patronising to say that decaff doesn't give them the same hit as a double espresso. Decaff may well have an effect, but it's objectively impossible it gives the same hit as espresso. If someone's never had an espresso, there can't even be a placebo effect because the brain has nothing to simulate. It's not patronising to say that the decaff drinker doesn't get the same buzz; it's just true. Doesn't make espresso good or decaff bad, but caffeine and therefore its effects, is objectively missing from one experience.

 

Rather than caffeine, sex (obviously) involves hormonal flood of the brain, and when it's good, at high levels: oxytocin, serotonin and dopamine. It's demonstrable that brain chemistry is what our minds label as experiences and in the absence of sex, I don't see how those experiences are created to the same level. The hormones are probably there from other experiences (conversation, massage etc), but not to the same extent, I'd hypothesise; if that's so, are asexual minds then interpreting those levels as the 'maximum' and therefore perceiving them as just as intense, because they have nothing more intense to compare it with? To come back to the coffee analogy - if you've only ever had instant, then you'll get a huge hit off an Americano. If you're used to double espressos, Americanos won't seem like much.

 

If one day there's a way of measuring oxytocin, serotonin and dopamine processing in the brain, maybe we'll get some kind of insight, one way or the other. 

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6 hours ago, Sally said:

Being asexual and experiencing "levels of joy" in things other than sex, to me what you said sounds a bit patronizing.  It seems unlikely that he doesn't feel that coming from you.  

I see that and am not trying to be actually. There are so many feelings and experiences I’m having that I simply have never had withIn my marriage. Those feelings and experiences are all tied to connected sex and/or lack thereof. In my husband’s case, there’s also the aromanticism which likely plays a role. That, for a sexual, takes an emotional toll for sure. We do not hit those highs that I am now hitting and never have. Additionally, I have never seen him experience equivalent joy or heard from him something similar. 
 

I’m being reflective on it, and it’s all one viewpoint. I see the differences and am at a loss for how better to describe what I feel and see without offending or coming off patronizing I guess. It’s not my intention, but is my experience and observation FWIW.

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As someone who experiences an emotional high from sex and has had relationships that were deep / meaningful, romantic and non-sexual completely...

 

I experience the same emotional highs from a three hour long deep conversation, sharing a really good vacation, etc. It gives me an intense bonding feeling and a euphoric feeling. It makes the next few days with a partner more relaxing. I still can, so sexual desires didn't destroy my contentment with non-sexual affection. 

 

Sex gives a similar feeling, but in a 10-20 minute span of time and is easier to achieve. But, getting sexual desires in my life didn't give me anything new. It just gave me another way to experience the same deep bond I already could experience. And a different way to express it. 

 

So, I doubt aces are missing out on anything. They just express their feelings and joys in a way that you cant relate to. 

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