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Sexual Wife/Asexual Husband - Truce!


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On 6/14/2018 at 12:15 AM, Traveler40 said:

I agree wholeheartedly @NickJCook!  Keep the discussion going @Twisters, it’s the only way towards legitimate and lasting progress as Nick notes.

 

It’s somewhat fortuitous that you commented on this thread as I was considering updating the story.  I’ve put it off since I’m not able to clearly articulate how things have developed, but what I’d like to impart is this:

 

Over the past few months, I’ve discovered that when stripped away, sex alone isn’t as critical as simple, shared touch.  True intimacy is fulfilling however you get there, and the goal of deep connection isn’t dependent solely upon the act of sex.  I did not know that until sex was withheld and replaced with touch.  Perhaps a dying flower only needs a drop?

 

My lover and I have grown ever closer these past few months despite the platonic nature of our current relationship.  This has confounded me as it is definitely not what I envisioned when searching for a lover last year.  Honestly, how can I essentially be in TWO (2) sexless relationships? 

 

Frankly, I’d like to make love with my lover anywhere, anytime, anyhow, but he won’t do that at the moment.  (The barriers to unexpectedly and profoundly loving a married partner are real and sobering for him.) In lieu, we have continued and grown our friendship resulting in an indescribable intimacy that keeps me content enough.  How is that possible since I already have that with my husband?   Well, I’m learning that obviously we don’t have that: As previously mentioned, we never touch unless in error!  There is no hand holding, spooning, caressing, kissing, rubs or snuggles.  We co-parent and co-exist as friends, partners and roommates.  That’s all there is.  Over the past few months I’ve learned that TOUCH - holding, hugging, rubbing, spooning - can go a very, very long way!

 

I’m struggling to put it to words.  What does it mean?  I feel like sex is this gateway for sexuals to achieve deep, lasting, emotionally fulfilling connection, but with enough care and alternate physical attention, it can be found and happily sustained for an undetermined amount of time without it.  

 

I want to experience my lover deeply in all ways, but I’m alright waiting for it until he’s all in.  He’s worth waiting for, it’s worth waiting for. I know, as we’ve been there. Oh, the ironies  of life....

How can expect your lover to be all in if you’re not? 

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On 6/26/2018 at 10:39 PM, Denise526 said:

How can expect your lover to be all in if you’re not? 

I have never expected anything, have been clear on everything and withheld nothing.  We are grown, mature individuals navigating a complex situation we equally participate in.  He is a strong man with a clear mind and a big heart.  Who knows what tomorrow brings?  Today, I embrace whatever he has to offer.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi @NickJ, I’ve been wondering the same thing about you:  I’d love to hear how you’re fairing in your relationships.

 

I just got back from three hours of roller skating with my children and two of their friends.  I can’t complain as these are the times that are most important.  Summer with kids is both precious and fleeting.

 

As for my small world of platonic relations, it’s as it was last time we connected.  I’ve been diving with my lover as recently as yesterday and plan to take off and spend the day diving with him on Friday, but that’s as exciting and as physical as we get.  I asked him what he wanted while eating breakfast yesterday and his answer was, “Does it really matter? No one gets what they want here.  Need I say it out loud?  What I want is currently a pipe dream.  All that matters is the kids on which, we all agree.  I’m enjoying now and that’s that.” 

 

I agree and understand.  We are alright with being day-to-day.  As he’s said, this is the most complicated situation since no one gets what they want.  While I read that as seemingly dire, it’s not.  We are content enough to be coasting through summer at the moment.  The key is focusing on the shorter term experiences.

 

My husband is struggling the most these days.  I believe it’s because he sees that which he had hoped would be an insignificant connection for me is anything but.  It’s both an unintended and unwelcome consequence of his allowance.  He’s neither jealous nor bitter, but he is deeply worried about the future.  I see it and feel it yet can’t help it. That pains me as I never want to hurt him.  He is an exceptional human who has and deserves my respect and love.  I believe he is coping In moments as well.  Living for the now makes worry fade somehow.

 

I hope the above makes sense...I’m cooking and writing on the fly.  I’ve been interrupted a number of times.  Anyhow, I felt compelled to get the update out and am looking forward to hearing from your corner of the world...

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Thanks for the update, it’s good to hear that you’re still making it work, despite the complexities of the situation. It does sound like quite the rollercoaster though, which I can certainly relate to.

 

For my part I am struggling to focus on day to day. I’ve always felt like my future was mapped out and currently I feel like that’s all up in the air. My wife continues to be supportive but I don’t know how and if I can be the person she needs. My partner, who has her own problems is equally supportive, and that relationship continues to get deeper and more complex for us both.

 

I don’t believe I can continue in this way much longer, and I fear it is inevitable that something is going to have to give and people are going to be hurt. 

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Hmmmm, I hear you.  My feeling after reading your update a few times was consistent: Take your time. You have that luxury and time tends to bring clarity.  

 

While I can’t possibly know the nuances, I do sense a hurry to decide based on your words.  Perhaps I’m not reading it correctly, but it feels like there’s this rush to make decisions due to the stress of the situation. However, if you’re afforded time (which it seems both women are offering) why not take it?

 

Anyhow, I apologize if I’m off base. It was simply my takeaway after reading what you wrote.  It never hurts to keep communicating openly with both partners.  At least I find it helps to bring clarity if not comfort.  I’m sorry. I know it’s both tough and stressful being in limbo.

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5 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

Hmmmm, I hear you.  My feeling after reading your update a few times was consistent: Take your time. You have that luxury and time tends to bring clarity.  

 

While I can’t possibly know the nuances, I do sense a hurry to decide based on your words.  Perhaps I’m not reading it correctly, but it feels like there’s this rush to make decisions due to the stress of the situation, I’m not sure. However, if you’re afforded time (which it seems both women are offering) why not take it?

 

Anyhow, I apologize if I’m off base. It was simply my takeaway after reading what you wrote.  It never hurts to keep communicating openly with both partners.  At least I find it helps to bring clarity if not comfort.  I’m sorry. I know it’s both tough and stressful being in limbo.

You’re right, I am finding this limbo difficult. Time is exactly what is needed but I am finding it difficult to simply take that time. The stress, anxiety  and uncertainty is taking a toll and I’m just not sure how long I can continue like this. My mind just keeps going over the same things constantly.

 

I suppose I don’t really have much choice, I just need to try and deal with it and take the time that’s needed. 

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22 hours ago, NickJ said:

My mind just keeps going over the same things constantly.

Yes, I had this anxiety at times last year, particularly around the holidays.  When my lover unexpectedly walked away from the relationship, it allowed me to let go of my concerns.  Much of this is not in your control, so perhaps figure out how to release the stress or it may be done for you -  in the way you least expect.

 

The less pressure you exert, including on yourself, the better the outcome.  I know it’s difficult not to extrapolate out and obsess (especially if you’re Type A), but that helps no one. Going with the flow is best for all parties.  At least that’s been my experience.  We are back to day-to-day.  That’s how I let go and am infinitely happier for it.

 

Edit:  This sounds quite high handed.  It’s always “in my case and from my experience” that I speak.  You know your situation best and what may or may not work.  Please know that I never intend to tell you anything.  Instead, my goal is to share my experience and perspective in the hope it helps in some way. Hopefully that’s clear. ☺️

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  • 1 month later...
Wandering Around
On 9/10/2017 at 7:32 PM, Traveler40 said:

I think for every relationship it's an evolution based on what you can or are willing to compromise on across time. For me, sex grew in importance, and the need began to overshadow other things in our lives. I grew brittle, and the lack of touch, warmth, connection and release felt like I was missing a vital part of life.  I could no longer ignore or simply accept it.  I'm not getting any younger and knew another decade could easily slip away without forging forward.  I was scared of how it would go, but resolute.  

 

Making the choice to take a lover took time and thought measured in months at least as I grew serious about the idea.  Once decided, I was on a path that was carefully walked.  In retrospect, communication, understanding, willingness to be open and patience in selecting the right addition to our lives were all key.  

 

Looking back, I can't believe I waited as long as I did.  Eight years, one bad night of sex in that time and feeling lost for so long is not something I could go back to.  My lover has allowed my family to breathe again. It's not an easy road from A to B, but I'm grateful for the leap of faith all were willing to take which started with me finding the courage.

Reading all of this has given me hope.  Thank you for being so open and sharing all you have gone through. 

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1 minute ago, Wandering Around said:

Reading all of this has given me hope.  Thank you for being so open and sharing all you have gone through. 

Keep reading - it’s not that simple...

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Wandering Around
On 9/21/2017 at 5:18 PM, Traveler40 said:

It  was killing me by a thousand paper cuts.  

This so hard! 

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22 hours ago, Wandering Around said:

Reading all of this has given me hope.  Thank you for being so open and sharing all you have gone through. 

Hmm, you may have not read everything.  In most cases asexual / sexual relationships are very unhappy for at least one person, it not both.  Many of us have lost all hope after decades of trying. 

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Wandering Around
8 hours ago, uhtred said:

Hmm, you may have not read everything.  In most cases asexual / sexual relationships are very unhappy for at least one person, it not both.  Many of us have lost all hope after decades of trying. 

I was referring to those that have found a compromise that involved seeking fulfilment in some areas of their life outside of their marriage. To hear from some that, despite having to work hard at that and the search being long to find the right person, it has become possible and a happy reality for them. 

 

But as for the feeling like you have given up hope. I am very well acquainted with that sensation as well. It's been a long 14 years fighting this losing battle with my husband and I'm very willing to stop. He can't change who he is and what he needs or doesn't need (it's just nice to know what that is now) nor can I change who I am. I think we can both be a little less miserable if we can quit pouring our energy into a cup with no bottom and start making moves toward doing something (no matter how unconventional) that will actually work to increase our happiness. 

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@Wandering Around, I hear you, understand, and think reading this entire thread is important as it’s not as simple as it seems at first blush.  That’s @uhtred‘s point perhaps.

 

Uhtred , it’s certainly no picnic, but I haven’t thrown in the towel just yet. This reality is not the end of the world as I continue to seek a balance between making my life with the kids/family unit work and having the courage to address my own needs.  It’s critical to keep working on it versus simply accepting a life sentence of pain.  That will look different for everyone.  We only have one life, so I believe in making it the best you can.  

 

I’m still moving forward and balancing my relationships with minimal angst these days.  It’s ho-hum and unremarkable, but working fairly well currently.  That’s sure to change in time, but for now, I’m focused on the moments.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So, as I tuck my son into bed tonight, he says, “Mommy, I saw a man and a woman loving on each other at the bagel store when I was there.  Also, my friend’s dad kissed his wife’s cheek and said, ‘see you later sweetie’ when he left the park.  I’ve never seen you and Daddy hug. Why don’t you try it?  I mean, when I have a wife, maybe that’s a good thing?”

 

                                          *crickets*

 

No matter how normal and calm we think it is, they know something is amiss.  How to teach them in a vacuum?  I’m at a loss.

 

Staying together has so many benefits, but they will still be stunted by the nature of the beast. 

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3 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

So, as I tuck my son into bed tonight, he says, “Mommy, I saw a man and a woman loving on each other at the bagel store when I was there.  Also, my friend’s dad kissed his wife’s cheek and said, ‘see you later sweetie’ when he left the park.  I’ve never seen you and Daddy hug. Why don’t you try it?  I mean, when I have a wife, maybe that’s a good thing?”

 

                                          *crickets*

 

No matter how normal and calm we think it is, they know something is amiss.  How to teach them in a vacuum?  I’m at a loss.

You are seeing things from the perspective of what you see missing and are aching for.

 

What he observed was the normative trap. This could also be an opportunity to educate a child on the diversity of ways love manifests and the reasons people find closeness with each other. It can ramble. Major stuff like homosexuality, asexuality to simple things he can relate to like some people aren't demonstrative but still love you very much. Can wander to other relationships - each of his friends is unique. Someone outgoing, someone quiet. They are all precious in their own way, etc.

 

It will also be a good foundation for him seeing the truth of your relationship as he matures. He sees the same lack you do. Help him see the same value as you do too, that matters more than the lack.

 

If he sees the stereotypical loving marriages as the gold standard, he is likely to feel guilty that the two of you stayed together for him, for example. Or believe that your family has a less than "good" environment. You don't have to go into the depths of mismatches and compromises and such, but simply making it okay that some people kiss and can't keep their hands off each other and others being more reserved. You don't have to change and start getting all kissy and they don't have to tone themselves down to not kiss.

 

Important note: It is hard to remember that a child is a child when they astutely put their finger on what is bothering us. But a child is not a confidant or a support system. Our role is to help them make sense of the world and see a larger picture and to some extent when they touch sore points, it becomes our duty to rise above our issues that their maturing skills have picked up and help them find a perspective that is nourishing to their minds. In my view, it is very important for parents to present a congruent front - more important than loving, even. The issues between you and your partner are not his responsibility to shoulder and your response to him should at least attempt to see things from a perspective of what this also is - noticing and understanding the differences between how relationships manifest. Remember, he also sees loads of couples who are perfectly happy in their marriages and content and still not demonstrative.

 

For all you know, it could also be about him finding the idea of being close to someone attractive as he grows, but is concerned that it is not a part of your household culture so maybe he may not get to do it?

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11 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

[...]they will still be stunted by the nature of the beast. 

Even if you subscribe to the (inaccurate, to my way of thinking, but that’s just me) belief  that all loving couples engage in PDA, the fact that he noticed and suggested it would sound like he’s not somehow stunted.

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@anamikanon thank you.  Your input helped shape a better discussion this morning as  I certainly failed last night.  Reframing my approach and trying again had visual and obvious positive impact.  Thank you again.

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8 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

@anamikanon thank you.  Your input helped shape a better discussion this morning as  I certainly failed last night.  Reframing my approach and trying again had visual and obvious positive impact.  Thank you again.

Glad it helped. And congratulations on raising a perceptive child, even though rather blunt pointing out like this can seem the opposite by adult standards. He's learning. He's spotting stuff now. Soon he'll figure out how to interpret it, then to figure out how to approach something like this.... 

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That's really well said @anamikanon.

 

I think it is important to stress how relationships are different and a good chance to talk about importance of individually and boundaries :)

 

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@Traveler40 Also, it may be useful to have a conversation with your husband over what happened and the productive conversation you had with your son after that and suggest that the two of you actively think of creating a signature culture for your home. Something that is already there, but recognizing it, so that your son learns to recognize it as another form of love. Perhaps you aren't demonstrative in a sexual or physical manner, but what do you do together often? Shared sports perhaps, days on the beach, witty banter, serious conversations on films or music, perfect gifts, elaborately organized surprises, whatever it is. A few remarks like "We don't kiss, dude, we do house painting and decorating with the people we like best" will help him see how affection and companionship manifest in your home. "If you could choose anything to demonstrate your love for someone, how would you do it?"

 

The catch here is that your husband and you must be on the same page. In agreement that this is how affection is for you two.

 

Edit: It may also help you and your husband mindfully enrich the closeness between you and help you feel less... lonely?

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In our home, if one were to think of how my ace and I demonstrate our love for each other, it would be impeccable respect for each other's choices and boundaries. Many people think that it can get stiff and formal to ask for consent. We are asking for or checking for consent all the time. In every little thing. And it is as natural as breathing, because we are doing it because the opinions and preferences and comfort of each other matter. To someone seeing us, it is quite obvious that we want to make each other happy with the smallest choices.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It’s been an interesting time, and while not altogether comfortable for me at the moment, I feel it’s important to update my journey.

 

So recently, my husband decided to put his foot down about my lover: He wants my lover and friend gone.  At the core, my husband feels threatened by the ever deepening relationship that we have developed around him, and now claims he should never have allowed it.  I believe the fear of what’s to come, as well as his eye witness account of the “state of the affair”, is the impetus for his request.  His demands haven’t gone as planned since I refuse to comply, and we are at an impasse.  

 

My husband began this track a couple of weeks ago by announcing out of the blue that he wanted us to start having sex again. He actually said, “I’d like to start fucking”, as if this was the most natural and obvious thing in the world. 😲 Yes, my jaw fell open.  I felt so many things when he dropped this bombshell that it’s hard to describe.  Initially, I almost started laughing until I realized that he was serious.  

 

It’s not so much that he would follow through with pursuit, which he hasn’t, but that it’s far from any reality as it pertains to us. I felt shock (beyond the uncharacteristic delivery), sadness (understanding the desperation that must have led him to this) and a repulsion that took me by surprise.  Honestly, I can’t even imagine going there.  I love my husband, but as others before have mentioned, after years of rejection and forced celibacy, I find I have no desire to connect with him in that way.  

 

The last time I tried, it was about 2 months after my hysterectomy, just before finding this site and before beginning the search for my lover.  I was desperate.  The urge to connect in a meaningful and sexual way distracted me to the extreme as a byproduct of the surgery.  (This happens to a small percentage of women, and I was one of them.). So, I sat my husband down, laid it all out, and basically begged him. I explained that I felt like I was drowning, and if he was ever going to step up, now was the time. I needed him to please help me in that. His response was overwhelmingly positive, and that he was there for me.  He said I should trust in him and show him what I was going through, so I did.  Each time I came on to him, or simply talked about how it was, he essentially made fun of me.  I realize now it was his issue, but something in me died for him.

 

Anyhow, since his request for a sexual connection, I have explained the following: While I appreciate his desire to protect his nest, sex is not part of that endeavor.  I’ve also flat out refused to end my other fulfilling connection born from our struggles and his allowance.  Rather than push me on it, he has chosen to back down and....perhaps wait?

 

It’s not uneasy, but I see and feel emotional lines being drawn.  I almost sense him building the scenario whereby he’s been victimized by my choices.  I don’t know why he’s suddenly decided things must end so abruptly, but it disturbs me.  

 

I went out with my lover last night.  As I was saying my “See you laters!”, my husband firmly, but calmly stated, “Ok, but I don’t agree, I want you to stay.”  My response was simply, “It’s a bit late to flip the script isn’t it? Our history has led us here and all decisions have been made openly together.”  He said, “You’re not giving me a chance to change it or fix it.”  My response was, “There are no words...”

 

Meaning: We have discussed it a thousand times.  He’s never lifted one finger to make things better for me, yet I know he loves me with all his heart.  I know he will never change - he cannot even if he wishes he could.  We’ve done this rodeo dance too many times to count in years gone by.  I know it too well to give him the rope with which to hang me.  I believe he does not have the right to pull this cord.  Am I being selfish?  Am I walking a path to the end of my marriage?  Perhaps.  

 

What do I hope now?  

 

1. I hope my husband learns to accept that which he cannot change.  I’ve had to.

2. I hope my family can stay committed at least until the children are old enough...

3. I hope my husband always knows how much he’s loved and respected despite our mismatched orientations.

4. I hope my lover knows how very much I love and respect him - warts and all.

5. I hope we can all move forward gracefully with as few regrets as is possible.

 

I think this too shall pass uneventfully, at least for the near term. These last couple of weeks haven’t been stress free, but I accept that angst happens.  Decisions and choices can change in time, but I still wouldn’t change any of mine yet.

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4 hours ago, Traveler40 said:

I love my husband, but as others before have mentioned, after years of rejection and forced celibacy, I find I have no desire to connect with him in that way.  

This is where we’re stuck in my household too, from both directions.  It’s also part of why I’m not sure if I’m ace or just (some sort of tweener who is) too good at adapting.

 

Has your partner been able to offer any explanation as to why he wants your other relationship stopped?  It hasn’t sounded here as though it has recently escalated and become more of a threat.

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5 hours ago, ryn2 said:

Has your partner been able to offer any explanation as to why he wants your other relationship stopped?  It hasn’t sounded here as though it has recently escalated and become more of a threat.

All I can offer here is conjecture.  However, after being entwined for so long, I’m fairly certain that  I understand.  

 

My lover broke it off last winter as you know, the months that followed saw us forge forward in friendship. It was slow going and mainly from afar with the exception of dive club meetings, or an actual dive here or there.  However, over the summer, things started heating up again.  

 

At this point, the gravity may have hit home: My lover wasn’t only a reality, but also clearly not going anywhere. We had weathered a major storm and come out stronger.

 

During this time, my husband decided to go into therapy to see if he could “fix himself” and take over for the lover.  Mind you, he had almost 2 decades to do that...  The result was a more vocal version of himself,  yet also withdrawn.  He stopped participating in our usual and customary free flow communication.  The timing was never right for him to talk.  

 

He is frustrated about all of it, but mainly, I think he just wants me back in the box and realized that isn’t going to happen.  Life as he knew it has morphed in a direction he doesn’t like, and he’s trying to take the reins to redirect it back to “his track”.  Anyhow, that’s my take on it, but it feels right.

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That makes sense.  Hopefully - and I say this having recently ended a therapy relationship because the therapist’s personal opinions (which had largely been tangentially related, at most, to the reasons I’d been there previously) proved too problematic this time - it’s not that his therapist is encouraging him not to be okay with something that hadn’t really been bothering him.

 

It didn’t sound from things you’d posted previously as though your secondary partner poses a present threat to your primary relationship... unless I’m remembering wrong, your dive partner is not looking to establish anything exclusive with you.

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1 minute ago, ryn2 said:

It  didn’t sound from things you’d posted previously as though your secondary partner poses a present threat to your primary relationship... unless I’m remembering wrong, your dive partner is not looking to establish anything exclusive with you.

 

You are correct.  He does not pose a threat to my relationship or family.  My lover’s primary concern is actually my children, and he frequently reminds me that he’s “team husband” given that’s best for the kids.  My lover is perfectly content with things as structured, and it works quite well with the main goal of stability for the kids. 

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19 minutes ago, ryn2 said:

...it’s not that his therapist is encouraging him not to be okay with something that hadn’t really been bothering him.

 

He has since stopped seeing the therapist, but I can report that the time with her was certainly not well spent from my viewpoint.  

 

Our good communication generally stopped, and the communication we currently have pushes more buttons both ways.  While he’s never been against my having a lover, he suddenly wants him out of the picture. So...🤷🏻‍♀️

 

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7 minutes ago, Traveler40 said:

He has since stopped seeing the therapist, but I can report that the time with her was certainly not well spent from my viewpoint.  

Yeah, when you mentioned he’d started therapy the whole thing set off a few alarm bells.  Yes, a good therapist can certainly help the client speak up where speaking up has historically been challenging (or impossible), and that could come across as a change of stance... but a not-so-good therapist can also encourage the client to speak out against things the therapist finds offensive.  :(

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