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Learn about the spectrum


V.T.

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1 minute ago, Ilerneo Fricai said:

Immona warn you right now, three years of French several years ago doesn't go very far

Pfffft it's fine. I have 10 years and I still have a long ways to go- wait I mean

merde. J'ai oublié que je dois parler en français. Chu un idiot.

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a minor triad
1 hour ago, V.T. said:

Again, wether you agree with me or the chart is completely up to you. You just can't argue that the spectrum doesn't exist because it does, thus why I made this place. To just chat with people along the spectrum. The spectrum that I've seen before and know exists.

I JUST WANTED TO CHAT WITH PEOPLE. I kid you not. I did not start this argument. I was just like "we're diverse and I love diversity so let's talk about our diversity".

Oh, there is a spectrum, and as I said before, it is called the sexuality spectrum.

 

55 minutes ago, V.T. said:

I have a lesbian, trans, ace and non-binary friend. 4 friends of minority and I love them to death. There is a spectrum in asexuality. That has nothing to do with acceptance. That's our job as people. To except and love everyone regardless of where they fall on the spectrum.

Question. Are you saying that all of these 4 people fall on the supposed asexual spectrum? There can be homoromantic asexuals, trans asexuals, and non-binary asexuals, but that does not mean there is an asexual spectrum. Different types of people can be asexual, but when it comes down to it, being asexual means that you do not experience sexual attraction. There are no shades of grey to that.

 

I would like to pose this question again. Are you suggesting that sexuals would fit in the asexual spectrum. If so, how?

 

16 minutes ago, V.T. said:

For the sake of jujubes why is everyone so butt hurt about a chart that I didn't make. Y'know what? From now on I'll just respond in French.

I'm sure that will be very productive.

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2 minutes ago, Messen said:

We're explaining it to a person that didn't read it the way it was intended to be read, and it does get frustrating when that person keeps wanting to read into it wrong.

If you feel that you understand what we've been saying now, good.

 

I'm off to watch GoT.

~Sigh c'est correct. Ce n'était pas mes intentions de faire du mal mais ça c'est surtout qu'est-ce que j'ai fait. Peut-être ça serait plus bon si je juste partirai de cette conversation.

translation: It's fine. It wasn't my intention to do any harm but that seems like that's all I've done (or what I've been accused of doing, I should say). Maybe I'd just be best if I left this conversation.

You guys don't really seem willing to have a conversation nor would even like to see my point. Please notice that in the beginning, I always started off with things like: "I see your point". While some of you like the one with the ace profile pic, were respectful, some of you just came to argue. I came for a conversation, not an argument. Regardless of what you all say, I still hope you have a wonderful day and respect your opinions, but for future reference:

Don't make arguments that would personally shoot down the person with the opposite argument as you, stick with only the facts. You're insult in the reading comprehension thing would be an example. The argument no longer became about the spectrum at that point.

I may have a thick skin, but some people here come here as there safe haven, so it's best to stay indifferent and only argue the facts, not the people. I'm also aware that I seem to be way less emotionally involved in this than some other people.

Nonetheless, please note that I made this meaning no harm, and I didn't think you all would take this to heart as much as you did. God bless, AND BE NICER TO EACH OTHER!😁

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2 hours ago, V.T. said:

It is labeled asexual spectrum. It exists. It's right there. If you deny its existence, you're lying. It was made by aven. Wether you agree with me or not is up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a spectrum.

For the record, if you look at AVEN's main page, NOT the forums, you will find no mention of a so called "asexual spectrum." The only place it mentions a spectrum is here:

 

Quote

There is a spectrum of sexuality, with sexual and asexual as the endpoints and a gray area in-between. Many people identify in this gray area under the identity of "gray-asexual," or "gray-a." Examples of gray-asexuality include an individual who does not normally experience sexual attraction but does experience it sometimes; experiences sexual attraction but has a low sex drive; experiences sexual attraction and drive but not strongly enough to want to act on them; and/or can enjoy and desire sex but only under very limited and specific circumstances. 

 

So as you can see, AVEN does not support the idea of an asexual spectrum, but does support those who identify in the "gray area" between sexual and asexual. It clearly says asexual is an end point, not a encumpusing spectrum.

 

For the record, I think what most people mean when they say "ace spectrum" simply mean "gray-sexual." The asexual community can support and help anyone who wishes to join, but anyone who experiences attraction/had an innate desire for partnered sex would not fall under the definition of asexual.

 

There is nothing wrong with being grace, not sure why people act as those asexuals are casting people away... they are valid, what they feel is real, they just aren't ace and that's ok

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14 minutes ago, a minor triad said:

Oh, there is a spectrum, and as I said before, it is called the sexuality spectrum.

 

Question. Are you saying that all of these 4 people fall on the supposed asexual spectrum? There can be homoromantic asexuals, trans asexuals, and non-binary asexuals, but that does not mean there is an asexual spectrum. Different types of people can be asexual, but when it comes down to it, being asexual means that you do not experience sexual attraction. There are no shades of grey to that.

 

I would like to pose this question again. Are you suggesting that sexuals would fit in the asexual spectrum. If so, how?

 

I'm sure that will be very productive.

I take back what I said about you being respectful. Gee. I just got myself a lot of hate for my first day. Hope you guys are happy. And also, speaking French happens to be very productive in my country.

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Just now, V.T. said:

I take back what I said about you being respectful. Gee. I just got myself a lot of hate for my first day. Hope you guys are happy. And also, speaking French happens to be very productive in my country.

Just sayin'

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a minor triad
13 minutes ago, V.T. said:

~Sigh c'est correct. Ce n'était pas mes intentions de faire du mal mais ça c'est surtout qu'est-ce que j'ai fait. Peut-être ça serait plus bon si je juste partirai de cette conversation.

translation: It's fine. It wasn't my intention to do any harm but that seems like that's all I've done (or what I've been accused of doing, I should say). Maybe I'd just be best if I left this conversation.

You guys don't really seem willing to have a conversation nor would even like to see my point. Please notice that in the beginning, I always started off with things like: "I see your point". While some of you like the one with the ace profile pic, were respectful, some of you just came to argue. I came for a conversation, not an argument. Regardless of what you all say, I still hope you have a wonderful day and respect your opinions, but for future reference:

Don't make arguments that would personally shoot down the person with the opposite argument as you, stick with only the facts. You're insult in the reading comprehension thing would be an example. The argument no longer became about the spectrum at that point.

I may have a thick skin, but some people here come here as there safe haven, so it's best to stay indifferent and only argue the facts, not the people. I'm also aware that I seem to be way less emotionally involved in this than some other people.

Nonetheless, please note that I made this meaning no harm, and I didn't think you all would take this to heart as much as you did. God bless, AND BE NICER TO EACH OTHER!😁

I'm sorry to hear that you plan to leave this discussion because I actually enjoy having this discussion with people. I think it is important to understand that when people argue against the idea of an asexual spectrum they are not necessarily arguing for an exclusive asexual community.

 

Just now, V.T. said:

I take back what I said about you being respectful. Gee. I just got myself a lot of hate for my first day. Hope you guys are happy. And also, speaking French happens to be very productive in my country.

I'm sure it is productive in French-speaking countries, however, obviously this conversation is filled with English-speakers, so it would not be very productive for this conversation. I don't mean my words to be offensive, but I cannot help how you interpret them.

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49 minutes ago, V.T. said:

Nope, but they can get in legal trouble for it if aven feels like it

How in the world could they get in legal trouble?

 

AVEN is US based and anyone in the US can quote anything else as long as thy give acurate credit to the source for the quote. However, just because they pull a certain source does NOT mean that the conclusions that are drawn are agreed with their source

 

For example, I could say that Abraham Lincoln mentioned "fore fathers" in a speech and therefore he believes every person should have four fathers. However, that would be my conclusion, not Lincoln's, and I hope it's obvious that I pulled a conclusion that Lincoln would not agree with.

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1 minute ago, a minor triad said:

I'm sorry to hear that you plan to leave this discussion because I actually enjoy having this discussion with people. I think it is important to understand that when people argue against the idea of an asexual spectrum they are not necessarily arguing for an exclusive asexual community.

 

I'm sure it is productive in French-speaking countries, however, obviously this conversation is filled with English-speakers, so it would not be very productive for this conversation. I don't mean my words to be offensive, but I cannot help how you interpret them.

Alright. At least you confirmed your intentions and remained neutral, though I am aware through another source that some people we're talking about me behind my back. I highly doubt you were one of these people though.

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2 minutes ago, Puck said:

How in the world could they get in legal trouble?

 

AVEN is US based and anyone in the US can quote anything else as long as thy give acurate credit to the source for the quote. However, just because they pull a certain source does NOT mean that the conclusions that are drawn are agreed with their source

 

For example, I could say that Abraham Lincoln mentioned "fore fathers" in a speech and therefore he believes every person should have four fathers. However, that would be my conclusion, not Lincoln's, and I hope it's obvious that I pulled a conclusion that Lincoln would not agree with.

Okay, so you're different. I'll except that. I'm not American nor am I familiar with your laws. I'm just talking about were I come from.

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Just now, V.T. said:

Okay, so you're different. I'll except that. I'm not American nor am I familiar with your laws. I'm just talking about were I come from.

*where stupid autocorrect 

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23 minutes ago, V.T. said:

Don't make arguments that would personally shoot down the person with the opposite argument as you, stick with only the facts.

By now there are four pages filled with facts, quotes, explanations and links. Now it's up to you to live up to the title of your thread.

 

I'm still interested in an answer to the following question: How is zero a spectrum?

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Ilerneo Fricai

 

3 minutes ago, V.T. said:

*where stupid autocorrect 

Just so you know, you can edit posts you've already made, so you don't have post a new one 

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swirl_of_blue
22 minutes ago, Puck said:

 

1 hour ago, V.T. said:

It is labeled asexual spectrum. It exists. It's right there. If you deny its existence, you're lying. It was made by aven. Wether you agree with me or not is up to you, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a spectrum.

For the record, if you look at AVEN's main page, NOT the forums, you will find no mention of a so called "asexual spectrum." The only place it mentions a spectrum is here:

 

 

Quote

 

There is a spectrum of sexuality, with sexual and asexual as the endpoints and a gray area in-between. Many people identify in this gray area under the identity of "gray-asexual," or "gray-a." Examples of gray-asexuality include an individual who does not normally experience sexual attraction but does experience it sometimes; experiences sexual attraction but has a low sex drive; experiences sexual attraction and drive but not strongly enough to want to act on them; and/or can enjoy and desire sex but only under very limited and specific circumstances. 

 

 

So as you can see, AVEN does not support he idea of an asexual spectrum, but does support those who identify in the "gray area" between sexual and asexual. It clearly says asexual is an end point, not a encumpusing spectrum.

 

For the record, I think what most people mean when they say "ace spectrum" simply mean "gray-sexual." The asexual community can support and help anyone who wishes to join, but anyone who experiences attraction/had an innate desire for partnered sex would not fall under the definition of asexual.

 

There is nothing wrong with being grace, not sure why people act as those asexuals are cast people away... they are valid, what they feel is real, they just aren't ace and that's ok

 

I platonically love you SO MUCH right now, Puck. Thank you for existing.

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3 minutes ago, V.T. said:

Okay, so you're different. I'll except that. I'm not American nor am I familiar with your laws. I'm just talking about were I come from.

Gotcha, glad I could clarify that then :) Yeah, anyone here can quote anything and make wrong conclusions with it.

 

Using AVEN as a source would suggest it has gone to the right sources for research but doesn't mean AVEN would agree with it's conclusions. That is the conclusion that the Huffinngton Post puts forth and AVEN is only one of the places it went to do research. As I showed when I quoted AVEN's main general FAQ, AVEN the site does not support the idea of an "asexual spectrum."

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2 minutes ago, swirl_of_blue said:

I platonically love you SO MUCH right now, Puck. Thank you for existing.

Aw, you are so sweet :P Glad I could make you feel that way!! I appreciate you too and am glad I could make you feel that way in a debate that seems to have gotten a little heated in some ways :D

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6 minutes ago, Puck said:

Aw, you are so sweet :P Glad I could make you feel that way!! I appreciate you too and am glad I could make you feel that way in a debate that seems to have gotten a little heated in some ways :D

A bit heated is an understatement. Look how this conversation started. Look how it ended. I'm literally leaving Aven. That is how much people got into this: too much. I'm also 100% sure some people hate me right now. For my opinion, and the fact that I come from a different country and didn't know all about your laws. Again, I'm used to being bullied but I feel like this thread was LARGELY misinterpreted to the point of no return. I tried to create this thread to help people, not hurt them.

Out of hand is how I would describe a misinterpretation this big.

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Just now, V.T. said:

A bit heated is an understatement. Look how this conversation started. Look how it ended. I'm literally leaving Aven. That is how much people got into this: too much. I'm also 100% sure some people hate me right now. For my opinion, and the fact that I come from a different country and didn't know all about your laws. Again, I'm used to being bullied but I feel like this thread was LARGELY misinterpreted to the point of no return. I tried to create this thread to help people, not hurt them.

Out of hand is how I would describe a misinterpretation this big.

I am very very sorry you feel that way. I don't think anyone hates you, honestly. But this debate has been around AVEN a long time, so I fee you are seeing emotions from past debates pour into this one.

 

I think the reality is that asexuals (as in those who experience no sexual attraction or engage desire to have sex) experience a lot of erasure and so they become protective of their label. Asexual is the ONLY label that fits that definition. Other labels are other labels with their own validity that an asexual would not fit under. So this label is all a lot of us feel we have and many are willing to fight for it. AVEN is a rare haven for those who have never and will never want to have sex, and so they get protective when some people who don't fit the label try to enter the sanctuary and claim the label.

 

For the record, I am NOT saying that is what you are doing, nor am I saying you are not ace. I'm just explaining hat some asexuals feel very invalidated by the idea of an asexual spectrum. That's why I believe there's is so much heat in these kinds of conversations. Both sides are feeling invalidated by the other when the reality is, I think there are enough labels for everyone. Grace and ace folks can support each other and neither needs to feel like they need to be accepted under the other's label, they just need to support each other as people and remind each other that what they feel is their sexuality is valid.

 

So you as a person are valid. I hope you learned somethings, even if we both walk away from this with some differing ideas.

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5 minutes ago, Puck said:

I am very very sorry you feel that way. I don't think anyone hates you, honestly. But this debate has been around AVEN a long time, so I fee you are seeing emotions from past debates pour into this one.

 

I think the reality is that asexuals (as in those who experience no sexual attraction or engage desire to have sex) experience a lot of erasure and so they become protective of their label. Asexual is the ONLY label that fits that definition. Other labels are other labels with their own validity that an asexual would not fit under. So this label is all a lot of us feel we have and many are willing to fight for it. AVEN is a rare haven for those who have never and will never want to have sex, and so they get protective when some people who don't fit the label try to enter the sanctuary and claim the label.

 

For the record, I am NOT saying that is what you are doing, nor am I saying you are not ace. I'm just explaining hat some asexuals feel very invalidated by the idea of an asexual spectrum. That's why I believe there's is so much heat in these kinds of conversations. Both sides are feeling invalidated by the other when the reality is, I think there are enough labels for everyone. Grace and ace folks can support each other and neither needs to feel like they need to be accepted under the other's label, they just need to support each other as people and remind each other that what they feel is their sexuality is valid.

 

So you as a person are valid. I hope you learned somethings, even if we both walk away from this with some differing ideas.

Why didn't you come here sooner😭. I didn't know people didn't like this stuff. Heck, I can talk about a lot of controversial and not think much of it. Same with a lot of my friends. I guess I'm not really threatened though, like some people feel. I've never publicly come out. Probably never will. I just avoid conflict at all costs. This is why I'm very indifferent to stuff like this. At least it makes me realize that I already have the most supportive group in the world: my friends.

 

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13 minutes ago, V.T. said:

Why didn't you come here sooner😭. I didn't know people didn't like this stuff. Heck, I can talk about a lot of controversial and not think much of it. Same with a lot of my friends. I guess I'm not really threatened though, like some people feel. I've never publicly come out. Probably never will. I just avoid conflict at all costs. This is why I'm very indifferent to stuff like this. At least it makes me realize that I already have the most supportive group in the world: my friends.

 

Aw, sorry I didn't come in sooner, I would have loved to support you. I'm glad I was able to reach you before you left the site though!

 

It's absolutely ok that you didn't know, I like to say "we can't know what we don't know." It's just part of life, that's ok. I am so impressed that you are still here and talking so hopefully you can see that the community would still love to have you be a part of it if you wanted to stay.

 

I'm really happy you have good friends who have your back. That's amazing, that's what everyone needs is a good support system like that.

 

If it helps, I was lucky enough to have gray-sexual and ace friends plus we all started discovering our sexualities around the same time (I was actually the last to really come out :P). We all got along but we all just respected eachother and our differences. We were a little ace/grace community, and I have found that, as long as everyone feels their sexual identity is respected, AVEN can be too :)

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The lesson here is: never share your ideas with people. :P (I'm joking, for those who don't know me well.)

 

The core part of the discussion has been brought up so many times during my tenure here at AVEN that it seems like beating a dead horse, yet to newer people like you V.T., it's a fresh topic in your eyes so you don't have the same background we do on the circles these discussions have gone in. Add into that some very different styles of communication (including cultural differences she language barriers), and the amount we think we disagree bound to be blown out of proportion.

 

For the subject matter, I think the grey area is best discussed after it's established what the fixed point of asexuality is. From there if people ask more nuanced questions, the grey area can be explored, and if people determine that they're far closer to the fixed point of asexuality than the majority of sexual people, then they might find they're better off identifying as being in an asexual realm. It's not that much different from other orientations, really. Lots of straight or gay people hover around ambiguous territory. It's human to be nuanced.

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4 hours ago, Puck said:

AVEN does not support the idea of an asexual spectrum

It slipped into the description of "Zedsexual" here:

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/123256-asexuality-sexual-orientation-lexicon-read-me/?do=findComment&comment=1061345333

 

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11 minutes ago, roland.o said:

True, but that's still in the forum, not on AVEN's main page. AVEN the site didn't make that post, rather it was made by a few mods. My research would starkly disagree with it.

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On 8/28/2017 at 9:19 AM, Homer said:

The question is: Do these people experience sexual attraction? That's all there is to it and it's a yes/no question.

 

Yes, they do. It might be rare and/or require certain circumstances, but they do experience sexual attraction. That's what makes them sexual.

 

BTW, I'm not saying that grey/demi folks don't exist. That would be disrespectful indeed. I'm saying that people who do experience sexual attraction/desire aren't asexual. They might relate to asexuals much more than to sexuals, who am I to judge that. But that's not the actual question. How is that even debatable?

 

Would it make me vegetarian if I only ate meat like once a month? I could relate to vegetarians just fine 29 days a month. Yet I'm still not vegetarian.

 

You're free to report this if you feel the need, no offense taken.

 

 

I guess it depends how you experience or define sexual attraction for yourself. For me, I feel I've been sexually attracted to like three people ever. I know this because while I still did not have the desire to have sex in a woah I must have sex with that hot person and can not control myself kind of way, I had a strong curiosity to have sex with them to see if it would be different or more passionate than when I am not sexually attracted to someone which is most of the time. I also have had sex with people I'm not sexually attracted to but love in other ways and have found that I don't really like them touching me very much in a sexual way. The few in my life that I have been sexually attracted to, I've enjoyed when they kiss me or touch me and might get some tingles inside instead of feeling nothing or grossed out or irritated like I can when I'm not sexually attracted.

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Perilous Poozer

Maybe it's an older person thing, but it's very hard to decouple what we've been socialised to expect to feel versus what we actually feel. As a recent discoverer, I've been parsing my history - was that a crush? A squish? Was I experiencing same-sex squishes and refusing to acknowledge them? Until I met my husband I would have described myself as aro had l known it existed, but what the heck does that make me now? Does engaging in sex for my partners' sake make me more properly gray? Insisting on absolutes is rough on people questioning a life of learned behaviours, and a spectrum is helpful in that respect. However I can see how those with a confident absolute ace identity could feel diluted by a bunch of unsure people. What a minefield!

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13 minutes ago, Perilous Poozer said:

Maybe it's an older person thing, but it's very hard to decouple what we've been socialised to expect to feel versus what we actually feel. As a recent discoverer, I've been parsing my history - was that a crush? A squish? Was I experiencing same-sex squishes and refusing to acknowledge them? Until I met my husband I would have described myself as aro had l known it existed, but what the heck does that make me now? Does engaging in sex for my partners' sake make me more properly gray? Insisting on absolutes is rough on people questioning a life of learned behaviours, and a spectrum is helpful in that respect. However I can see how those with a confident absolute ace identity could feel diluted by a bunch of unsure people. What a minefield!

The issue isn't ace people feeling diluted by unsure people, it's sending incorrect messages.

 

I doubt anyone would deny that sexuality-related stuff lies on a spectrum. The issue is that claiming there is a new spectrum just for asexuality is confusing and muddles the idea. Sexuality is a term that covers a large base of ideas, asexuality was only meant to cover one. Under sexuality, there is homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexaulity, pansexuality, asexuality.... There are grey areas in between all of that, of course. But asexuality is a sexuality, so it lies on the sexuality spectrum with all the other sexualities.

 

So there is a spectrum, but the spectrum is the sexuality spectrum, with sexual folks one one end and asexual folks at the other. Then there is a grey area in between, where grey-sexuals and so forth reside.

 

There is nuance, there is a spectrum, there just isn't a so-called "asexual spectrum".

 

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On 8/29/2017 at 2:53 AM, swirl_of_blue said:

Since the discussion on "the spectrum" has risen up against, I will state (again) that it would make all of our lives much easier if there was a word for non-allosexuals, under which we could group asexuals, greysexuals, demisexuals and other non-allosexual minorities. Personally I'm against the "asexual spectrum", since it includes both asexuals and the greys, demis and others who are neither ace nor allosexual, and in many things are closer to aces than "normal" allos.

 

On 9/6/2017 at 8:55 AM, GLRDT said:

I guess it depends how you experience or define sexual attraction for yourself. For me, I feel I've been sexually attracted to like three people ever. I know this because while I still did not have the desire to have sex in a woah I must have sex with that hot person and can not control myself kind of way, I had a strong curiosity to have sex with them to see if it would be different or more passionate than when I am not sexually attracted to someone which is most of the time. I also have had sex with people I'm not sexually attracted to but love in other ways and have found that I don't really like them touching me very much in a sexual way. The few in my life that I have been sexually attracted to, I've enjoyed when they kiss me or touch me and might get some tingles inside instead of feeling nothing or grossed out or irritated like I can when I'm not sexually attracted.

What exactly makes someone a normal 'allo'sexual to you both? I'm interested.

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5 hours ago, FictoVore. said:

 

What exactly makes someone a normal 'allo'sexual to you both? I'm interested.

 

Hello! I guess for me, it would depend what they feel they identify most with. If they feel they are more sexual with asexual tendencies I suppose they would be allosexual still. I feel way more asexual with only sexual tendencies as far as attraction like three times in my life. Im also open to sex for other reasons than actual desire  or need. I my mind, I feel like the main difference is an allosexual person has felt some form of sexual attraction and or desire since puberty or whenever those feelings often start for someone (I wouldn't know). Those feelings have  been present and at least semi consistent for allosexuals since they were young. Maybe not very often or desire and sexual attraction for that many people but they know they have and have had these feelings since they were young. For me, I felt broken in that I would fall romantically, emotionally and intellectually in love with people and I couldn't understand why in high school everyone was having these urges to do something more with someone else than just hang out. Even into college I still was not feeling sexual desire. The sex part was the only thing that consistently broke apart my relationships. So while I feel an allosexual person is at least feeling the need and want to do sexual things with people even if it's not that often but it's been present since they were young, that perhaps make them allosexual (I suppose this can get confusing if their sexuality changes because sexuality is fluid). If a person has not had these feelings present since puberty or whenever your hormones are supposed to be going crazy, they may be asexual. Also I have never had sexual desire for another person ever. I also have a low libido. So I don't need sex related things that often in general. I feel an allosexual person can have a low sex drive but when they do want it they often yearn for sex with another person. If my libido is acting up once in a blue moon, I'd prefer to touch myself. Hopefully this isn't too rambling and make some sort of sense.

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