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Elizabeth I

What Am I? (A Rant About Sex and Culture)

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Elizabeth I

Although this question has been well covered in other forums at AVEN, I thought it a particularly good question to ask among folks who have been around a while.

Although I have been calling myself "asexual" for about 30 years... I am certain that there are a good many who would debate the issue with me because I am attracted to (some) men, and have willingly taken part in sexual behaviour.

I have a theory about sex and the "drive" that facilitates it. I think that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction, and an actual "sex drive" is a biological signal that an individual is (physically)a good candidate for breeding!

Although this notion may not seem terribly controversial at first, lots of folks will disagree because of the wide variety of deviation in behaviour that is called "sexual behaviour". I am referring specifficially to behaviour that has nothing to do with breeding.

There are lots of things that I consider perverse that are widely accepted socially, and also (not surprisingly) a great many things I consider normal that are not socially accepted by our culture.

For one....I feel that its NORMAL for folks who have reached an age where breeding is NOT a good idea, to have a diminished sex drive, or not have a sex drive at all. In the sex-saturated social environment I grew up in, this is considered a weakness and a sure sign of declining physical or emotional health.

Men are encouraged to pump their ageing bodies full of hazardous recreational drugs to facillitate large erections for what? Breeding with their mostly dis-interested middle-aged wives? Or making fools of themselves chasing theirs daughter's friends around the swimming pool?

(Cool man...If I **** your Dad, he will probably BUY me MY OWN swiming pool)

Is this really about reproducing? NO!

It is about self promotion....power.....and boredom. It's about entertaining oneself using a basic biological function to establish social standing. (A social standing based on the perverse theories of aging males like Sigmund Freud and a modern, perhaps even more dangerous "expert", Desmond Morris.)

Now for the women....Perhaps some of you are old enough to remember the beginnings of the "sexual revoloution". All those magazine articles that explained how our sexually repressed grandmothers considered sex to be part of their "wifely duties" because they were socially prohibited from enjoying it. I suspect that for many of them it was simply another mess to clean up.

But one of the things the sexual revolution DID bring us was something else to obsess about. That elusive female orgasm.

Great....Now we are expected to perform some other vile degrading act to entertain the little brain into a second erectionv so he can attempt to satisfy his own ego.

"Please...will you just roll off of me so I can go fetch your warm moist towl and change the sheets? I have to work tomorrow too!"

**sigh**

OK ...I know this has been a tangent, and I have managed to get far away from the original question....

I think I am a romantic asexual...I've never really LIKED sex, even though I have given it up more than once for what I thought was "love".

My son thinks I'm a man-hater...because all of my negative experiences with sex involved what I percieved as obsessive male self-gratification....

My oldest friend from the "Love Generation" thinks I have "Serious Hang-ups"

My ex thinks I am a closet-lesbian because I didn't enjoy playing with his genitals....

My lesbian friend thinks I am homophobic because I have no interest in

playing with her genitals...

And of course, my gay gentleman friend just thinks I'm a "Fag-Hag" ...a title granted with the utmost respect and affection.....

What do YOU think Folks?

WHAT AM I?

Lizzie

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Aeriel
What do YOU think Folks?

WHAT AM I?

Well, a few adjectives come to mind:

Articulate, rational, logical, objective, observant, humorous and above all - a woman after my own heart!

Thanks for a great post!

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vikingo

Some people have learned over years to overcome discomfort in one self by overwinning it. By choosing positive qualities and become them. By finding identity in all the good sides of yourself. By realising yourself through things you like rather than things you don't like.

So - what would you like to be ? :D

Lets start by realising that you are - beside being mother, which probably isn't too bad - part of a global network where many people have had similar experiences, read your contributions, have reflections and tend to understand your situation, and most probably benefit from your experience.

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Elizabeth I
So - what would you like to be ? :D

Honestly? ... A man. I guess that squashes the man-hater theory :P

Lets start by realising that you are - beside being mother, which probably isn't too bad

I have to admit that I certainly don't regret having my son. It was difficult ...but definately worth it!

Lizzie

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KAGU143

Perhaps you are a gay-oriented asexual male androgyne trapped in a female body?

*ahem*

You wouldn't be the first AVEN-ite to find herself stuck in this very peculiar place.

*looks around sheepishly*

-Greybird

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Elizabeth I
Perhaps you are a gay-oriented asexual male androgyne trapped in a female body?

Could be ....but I gotta admit, I donny like the SOUND of it! :shock:

Lizzie

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basenji

Easy... you are yourself.

Through the years we associate ourselves with something; ideals, orginizations, careers etc. in order to help define our place in life. After time, we give up many of the labels we or others have placed on ourselves only to evolve to the person we truly are. I for one hold no religious convictions, but don't label myself as atheist because there are certain ideals they preach that I can't agree with (if you have ever seen the "free thought society" newsletter you'll know what I mean). Also, I have no sexual leanings but I don't label myself as asexual, I'm just me. There is no reason for a person to to fit a given mold to have meaning or proof of existance.

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vikingo
... A man ...
That has pros and cons. In what sense do you find that desireable ?

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roddy9uk
Although this question has been well covered in other forums at AVEN, I thought it a particularly good question to ask among folks who have been around a while.

.......................

I have a theory about sex and the "drive" that facilitates it. I think that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction, and an actual "sex drive" is a biological signal that an individual is (physically)a good candidate for breeding!

...................

WHAT AM I?

Lizzie

It certainly doesn't seem controversial to me Lizzie.

I had the delights of glandular fever at the tender age of 6 which (as far as I can tell) effectively killed off any chance I might have of "reproducing". While it did NOT kill off "sexual response" (I certainly got erections etc) I did not find myself particularly desirous "having sex" with anybody else.

When it came to the business of getting married with a view to having kids I was as eager as the next man to "get on with it" although to be honest it always did seem to be a bit of a chore and it was almost a relief when I found out I was infertile. From then on it definitely WAS a chore and it vanished from family life to all intents and purposes when my then wife became pregnant through IVF.

I was (and still am) perfectly happy to bring her (or since divorce any desirous female companion) to orgasm through massage but it is not something that gives me any sexual satisfaction..just the pleasure of pleasing them. I don't feel any need to find such a companion.

So a desire linked totally to the need to bring children into the world? Yes for me at any rate. I have a feeling that if my fertility was restored I would find I had a perfectly "normal" sex-drive (allowing for the fact that I am now on the old side of young) but I am frankly not going to discover whether that is in fact true.

So where does that leave me? A heterosexual asexual..lol.

roddy

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Elizabeth I
... A man ......
That has pros and cons. In what sense do you find that desireable?

I think that being a man would better fit my brain. I'm very male-brained. I don't know how diferent I would be if I WERE a man...because I would also have more testosterone in my body...and testosterone certainly causes lots of changes in one's psyche.

I have read posts in other forums about the advantages and disadvantages of being male /female. I certainly don't like the idea of vulnerable glands dangling in a sac outside my abdomen, but the social and cultural position of men is far more attractive to me than that of women.

With rare exception....men run everything. They have power, authority and one thing you mentioned in one of YOUR posts....CONFIDANCE!!!

I Know there are exceptions... and there are probably as many female-brained men as there are male-brained women. The struggle for them is every bit as overwhelming because they are expected to PERFORM... and really don't want to!

There is also the disadvantage of military conscription. But military conscription is morally and ethically wrong anyway. It's a type of slavery that men exercise over one another, and if it is reinstituted here in the US ...It will likely include females anyway.

Lizzie

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vikingo

Touché. I think, without consulting official statistics sources, that you are right ... and yet ... as I see the world of today there is many women in powerful political and public positions. Maybe not 50/50, but increasingly many. Even in countries where tradition or religion dictate females a role more in the background. That tendency seems more limp when it comes to positions of power in industry or branches where fields of work are more related to conservative gender roles.

To me it is not unthinkable that some of the limitations we meet along the course of life can be overwon if we dedicate ourselves to do so, and we in the process learn to handle our strong sides and weak sides with open mind and honesty.

In reaching our goals I think knowing the goals and knowing ourselves is far more important than our sex.

"I may not be a lion, but I am a lion's cub, and I have a lion's heart."

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Elizabeth I
That tendency seems more limp when it comes to positions of power in industry or branches where fields of work are more related to conservative gender roles.

Well, Here in the States we are AMAZINGLY slow. While there are more women than men who are registered voters We have NEVER had a female president , in fact we have never had a female VICE-president...or a Queen, or a Madam Prime Minister. and honestly, I don't see it happening coming in my lifetime.

You would think this was a third world country...and we are moving BACKWARD rather than forward.

To me it is not unthinkable that some of the limitations we meet along the course of life can be overwon if we dedicate ourselves to do so, and we in the process learn to handle our strong sides and weak sides with open mind and honesty.

True...and there was a time when I fought much harder for the rights of women here.. but it seems that for the most part women are even more passive now than they were when I was young. at least in public. As for me ..well I'm TIRED ......

Lizzie the Cub

Who wants to sit on the sword side .... 8)

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Steel

Knowing.

Like me.

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Kassil

What are you?

Yourself.

Labels only have value in that they make it possible to relate to the world in a consistent fashion. Anyone who falls under any label is going to most likely be as wildly different from others of the same label as they are from people of other labels.

Does it matter what others think you are, if you can be content with yourself?

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Ziffler
Well, Here in the States we are AMAZINGLY slow. While there are more women than men who are registered voters We have NEVER had a female president , in fact we have never had a female VICE-president...or a Queen, or a Madam Prime Minister. and honestly, I don't see it happening coming in my lifetime.

Women are smart enough to NOT want the job. LOL.

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone wants that job.

You age at least 20 years. You are responsible for everything, even those things that a president has absolutley no jurisdiction over. You are automatically hated by 50% of the people as soon as you are elected. You put your reputation at risk of being slandered and liabled with no recourse to exonerate yourself. People always believe the worst about you. You have no privacy. You can't go anywhere by yourself or on a whim. Your family become public property and their entire lives are open to scrutiny.

Women are just smarter than men, and run the country from behind their husbands so they can look good and be popular while their husband takes all the heat and criticism.

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Elizabeth I
Women are just smarter than men, and run the country from behind their husbands so they can look good and be popular while their husband takes all the heat and criticism.

What the heck is THAT supposed to mean?

I think your just rattling my cage... and it's WORKING!

Lizzie

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Hallucigenia

Political wives don't always "look good and be popular while their husband takes all the heat". Hillary Clinton doesn't strike me as universally well-liked, for example. And Maclean's (a prominent Canadian newsmagazine) recently ran a pretty long and puerile article talking about how much they don't like Cherie Blair, as well. Maybe they don't take the heat for specific policy decisions, but they're still right up there in the eye of media scrutiny, and woe betide any First Lady who appears untactful or uncultured!

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jay williams

I love your rants Elizabeth! There is a whole lot (everything?) that I agree with!

I do have some questions though. Why do you say that you feel like you are male-brained---and how would that affect your sexuality?

What is wrong with a fag-hag? It seems like being a fag-hag would be an answer to having asexual relationships.

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Elizabeth I
Why do you say that you feel like you are male-brained---and how would that affect your sexuality?

Because I'm a GUY! I like hanging out with the guys and doing guy things. I like machines and power . I like building things and fixing things but am absolutely useless when it comes to the fine art of housekeeping.

I absolutely hate shopping...ESPECIALLY for clothes and/or shoes. Gawd WHY do women require someone elses company to buy this stuff anyway?Get what you came for get the hell out of there! When trapped in a mall with a "shopper"...I'll inevitably go look at tools or electronics.

Although I do like children (one or two at a time) I have never been very good at "nurturing" them and end up engaging them more on a "peer" basis. I was more like a father with my own son than a traditional mother, (and tolerated a good deal of abuse from his father's family because of it).

I've spent a lot of frustrated years fighting to change the cultural and social position of women, and think that maybe I was fighting the wrong war. Maybe women ARE meant to be a certain way....but I'm just not meant to be one of them!

What is wrong with a fag-hag? It seems like being a fag-hag would be an answer to having asexual relationships

Nothing WRONG with being a "Fag-Hag". I always considered it a humorous but endearing term. The problem is they sometimes fall in love..and the gay man cannot reciprocate.

I don't subscribe to stereotypes to the point of letting them prejudice my feelings about folks, but my gay male friends have always been caring and attentative. I love attention ...but have always had to "pay" for any attention I recieved from a sexual man.

Of course my gay friend would be a very fullfilling partner for ME....but what about HIS desires? He's NOT asexual....he's gay!

It can be very frustrating for both people. I'm sure you know the drill....

"I DO love you....just not the way you want me to!."

Lizzie

x

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Islander9

I'm me.

I'm 59 years old.

I've experienced a LOT of what life involves humans in.

I'm physiologically female but - aside from menstruation, endometriosis, and postmenopause- I've never experienced anything female (by both my cultures' reckonings.)

I just find some of the comments here - a bit funny and shallow? The world is full of people who are different (yea, in their family groups or wider societies) and - if we are functional, self-observant, and lucky, (and, I suggest, have a sense of humour - way to be Greybird!) we....thrive-

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Ziffler
Islander9 wrote:

if we are functional, self-observant, and lucky, (and, I suggest, have a sense of humour - way to be Greybird!) we....thrive-

Well said.

Get to know oneself. Learn to live with oneself. Be honest with oneself. Change those things you can and accept those things you can't change. Then live life. Enjoy your life. Enjoy yourself.

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UnicornLady

Well said! It doesn't worry me or bother me at all that I haven't had sex, and am not interested in having children or being in any kind of 'coupledom'. I don't care what other people think of me for that.

The only things that really concern me are less personal issues - material security, unemployment, & c.

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Elizabeth I
I just find some of the comments here - a bit funny and shallow?

Don't know if that was directed at me or not. If it was I would sure like to know what comments you are referring to.

I haven't been here in a while, and unwittingly revived this long-dead thread by answering those two questions that were posed to me directly.

I do have a sense of humor, but also realise that not everyone appreciates my sarcastic wit.

I think you may have misinterpreted something I wrote.

Lizzie

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