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Telecaster68

What sexuals are really thinking

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Gleep
Just now, asexjoe said:

And if your husband continued to be a great lover, but couldn't orgasm, how would that affect you?

Most of the time, he can't. And I think because of being ace, it's not the mind blowing earth shattering euphoric bond. It's "well, that appendage is done".

 

Because I can't give him that feeling, it is a let down. I want to make him happy, but I accept that isn't how he's wired and leave it at that.

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Serran
1 minute ago, Gleep said:

I get that! I actually really do understand where you're coming from. That would work for me as well. But cuddling leads to his scent in my nose and in my brain. Which leads to me wanting to tickle or play or be silly.

Eventually when you've been together so many years, and you ask for a long intimate conversation, there's nothing left. I know his taboo subjects. He's slightly rabid athiest. I'm agnostic but spiritual. I can't talk about anything spiritual because I'll be made fun of. I can't tickle or play because Eww. When he asks "What am I thinking" and I'm thinking of crap I know will irritate him but don't want to say, do I say it? Or do I say nothing and add another brick in that wall?

Mmm. I don't know. Even with people I've had a lot of issues with, I was able to have long, intimate conversations after 10+ years. So, I think it's still very possible to keep those alive. But, it gets harder when there are major relationship threatening issues ongoing. 

 

And, tickling, etc isn't an orientation thing. Asexuals can still want to tickle and play. Sounds more like a compatibility issue over all, than just mismatched orientation? I like to be playful too, whether sexual or non-sexual, but not everyone is into that. And even people who are, may not be into it at all times. So, how you like to express affection is another level of compatibility in a relationship. 

 

3 minutes ago, Perkins said:

So what are some of the misleading stereotypes of sexuals on this site, apart from them wanting sex 24/7?

The biggest one I see often is that sexuality can't be as varied as it actually is. There is some ideal that sexuals have to want sex a lot, find sex the peak of everything in a relationship, etc and it's not really how it works. Sexuals are varied, asexuals are varied. Sexuality as a whole is so varied. 

 

4 minutes ago, asexjoe said:

Is it a stereotype to say a sexual experiences a kind of intimacy asexuals cannot?

 

That appears to be a common thread among the sexuals I've talked to, here. They describe this fantastic "connection" only accruing from sex.

*shrug* I don't really get this part either. Despite the fact I am currently actively desiring things that obviously make me not asexual, there isn't some fantastic connection that only happens from sex/sexual interactions for me. I do get a connection during certain activities, but it's no better than what I get from cuddling... it's just different and I could easily replace the sexual stuff with cuddling (though not cuddling with sexual stuff).

 

I currently don't use a label, but it's kind of funny to think of it as no label fits me. I am the null orientation. ^_^

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Telecaster68
12 minutes ago, timewarp said:

Telecaster, now that I think about it there was another aspect that makes it "the other way around". Particularly in my last attempt to have a relationship with a sexual, her approach was to stop trying intimacy all together and let me "sort out my problems first", whereas what would have helped me was most likely the opposite. I would have enjoyed the physical closeness a lot and I do think we would have slowly got to a situation where more would have been possible. Communication about it was blocked off by her as well (which is remarkable given that she was a psychologist). And being playful and considering all kinds of toys was also out of the question.

 

Now that I'm in a relationship with another ace, I do get physical closeness and I even get the emotional satisfaction out of it that (I think) you describe referring to sex - only that for us it's limited to kissing, cuddling etc.

I'm fairly sure that for most sexuals, receiving non PIV sex would 'count', and you don't have to be turned on to do that, just not repulsed. There are asexuals who aren't repulsed, understand their partner's distress, and still choose not to do something because (it frequently seems from posts on AVEN), they get nothing from it directly. This is what can seem selfish, and it is most definitely a choice (and clearly not the choice you would've made).

 

You're right, it's a remarkable approach to turn down what I'm sure were your best efforts in good faith. I guess she thought she was giving you space, but it seems odd to me not to actually listen to what you were saying, and it did remove your choice in the matter.

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JDP
1 minute ago, Gleep said:

Most of the time, he can't. And I think because of being ace, it's not the mind blowing earth shattering euphoric bond. It's "well, that appendage is done".

 

Because I can't give him that feeling, it is a let down. I want to make him happy, but I accept that isn't how he's wired and leave it at that.

That was always my feeling. I just wanted her to get off so I could be done with it. I did enjoy doing that, but I could not experience what she did. And that's all women I've been with, not just my current wife.

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Gleep
4 minutes ago, asexjoe said:

That was always my feeling. I just wanted her to get off so I could be done with it. I did enjoy doing that, but I could not experience what she did. And that's all women I've been with, not just my current wife.

Yeah, that's exactly how he feels. Said so back in June. I don't think I'll ever get those words out of my head. Timing it and five minutes from the first kiss "Are you done yet?" .... that's a gut punch and kills anything I might have gotten from it.

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Telecaster68

This is touching on something that isn't exactly a misconception, but it seems like asexuals just don't understand (as a massive generalisation).

 

Most sexuals really, really, really, like getting their partners off, even if they know they're not going to get any direct sexual stimulation out of it themselves. This is why giving oral sex, handjobs, etc. isn't some kind of concession, it's a turn on and pleasure in itself. Partly it's a validation that they find us attractive, partly it's just wonderful to give someone you care for that good a time, and partly it's just that watching and hearing someone you fancy get off is bloody sexy.

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Gleep
Just now, Telecaster68 said:

This is touching on something that isn't exactly a misconception, but it seems like asexuals just don't understand (as a massive generalisation).

 

Most sexuals really, really, really, like getting their partners off, even if they know they're not going to get any direct sexual stimulation out of it themselves. This is why giving oral sex, handjobs, etc. isn't some kind of concession, it's a turn on and pleasure in itself. Partly it's a validation that they find us attractive, partly it's just wonderful to give someone you care for that good a time, and partly it's just that watching and hearing someone you fancy get off is bloody sexy.

100% correct. I can get off getting my partner off. And the more enjoyment they get from it, the ... more I do?

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JDP
Just now, Gleep said:

Yeah, that's exactly how he feels. Said so back in June. I don't think I'll ever get those words out of my head. Timing it and five minutes from the first kiss "Are you done yet?" .... that's a gut punch and kills anything I might have gotten from it.

I have never expressed that feeling to any partner, and never had to, simply by keeping the sex going.

 

I could fake desire then, but I can't now.

 

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MrDane
2 hours ago, asexjoe said:

No one is directly responsible for another's happiness. One is responsible for his/her own.

 

Have you been married 30 or 40 years, Telecaster?

In my marriage, which functions quite well apart from the sex-issue, then we take a great pride in helping eachother and our togetherness/relationship to reach a level of happiness. We stay together and work on the obstacles to reach a mutual happiness. We say it like this: if one has a problem, it is a concern of both.  

 

I think Telecaster is a good voice from the sexual group. He often  refers to solid statistics, like the Kinsey survey. 

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JDP
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

This is touching on something that isn't exactly a misconception, but it seems like asexuals just don't understand (as a massive generalisation).

 

Most sexuals really, really, really, like getting their partners off, even if they know they're not going to get any direct sexual stimulation out of it themselves. This is why giving oral sex, handjobs, etc. isn't some kind of concession, it's a turn on and pleasure in itself. Partly it's a validation that they find us attractive, partly it's just wonderful to give someone you care for that good a time, and partly it's just that watching and hearing someone you fancy get off is bloody sexy.

None of that matters if the one receiving all of this doesn't get off.

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JDP
3 minutes ago, Gleep said:

100% correct. I can get off getting my partner off. And the more enjoyment they get from it, the ... more I do?

Is it the same in reverse? I don't think so.

 

In other words, if your partner likes getting you off, but doesn't get off getting you off, it's not the same. You want his desire, not just his participation.

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Telecaster68
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None of that matters if the one receiving all of this doesn't get off.

Quite.

 

When two sexuals have sex, one gets turned on by the other's desire. Then the second's desire turns the first one on more. Then the first one's growing desire turns the second one on more. And the first one gets turned on even more by the second one getting turned on more. And so on. It spirals. Or to pick another simile, it's like two mirrors facing each other, the reflections bouncing back and forth between them.

 

When one partner is asexual and just isn't getting turned on, it's like one of the mirrors is just solid wood, and the whole experience for the sexual one is solitary, and so much less because of it.

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JDP
16 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm fairly sure that for most sexuals, receiving non PIV sex would 'count', and you don't have to be turned on to do that, just not repulsed.

I would wager most sexual women feel rejected if a partner is giving sex without sexual desire, whether it's PIV, oral or whatever.

 

That's always been a point of contention with me. It isn't enough that sex is productive and fun. There has to be this desire component, as well, which is something I can't provide.

 

My marriage would be great if that one thing weren't such a big deal.

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Telecaster68
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 It isn't enough that sex is productive and fun.

Productive? What is it producing? It's not particularly a results-oriented activity.

 

Quote

I would wager most sexual women feel rejected if a partner is giving sex without sexual desire, whether it's PIV, oral or whatever.

They would give credit for trying, I'm sure, but that only goes so far. Not trying at all is worse, because it means your partner isn't even worth the effort.

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Gleep
Just now, asexjoe said:

Is it the same in reverse? I don't think so.

 

In other words, if your partner likes getting you off, but doesn't get off getting you off, it's not the same. You want his desire, not just his participation.

Honestly, it is. If I know he really does enjoy getting me off, that it makes him happy whether he .... finishes.. or not, then yes. It does count.

 

It's passion versus intimacy.

 

I don't need him to bend me over the kitchen counter and squish the bread because he just can't wait. That's passion. I'm not particularly passionate myself. But the desire to make me happy, the desire to share that intimacy, I don't care whether he could ever get it up again or not. His hands are perfectly satisfactory thank-you-very-much. It is his joy in me, in not feeling like a burden, in feeling like I'm worth his time and energy, that he wants to do things with me whether or not his dick gets involved.

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JDP
2 minutes ago, Gleep said:

Honestly, it is. If I know he really does enjoy getting me off, that it makes him happy whether he .... finishes.. or not, then yes. It does count.

 

It's passion versus intimacy.

 

I don't need him to bend me over the kitchen counter and squish the bread because he just can't wait. That's passion. I'm not particularly passionate myself. But the desire to make me happy, the desire to share that intimacy, I don't care whether he could ever get it up again or not. His hands are perfectly satisfactory thank-you-very-much. It is his joy in me, in not feeling like a burden, in feeling like I'm worth his time and energy, that he wants to do things with me whether or not his dick gets involved.

That gives me a lot think about.

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MrDane
46 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Take orgasms out of the equation. 

 

Would MOST sexuals still want to have sex? 

If you take orgasms out? I love the anticipation, the sliding into it, the doing it and the orgasm is the icing of the cake. But i would still love the cake without the icing.

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Gleep
1 minute ago, asexjoe said:

That gives me a lot think about.

That is exactly what I'm bemoaning on here that I miss. It's not his plumbing. He can do more to me with a couple fingers than... well that's tmi and then some and makes me blush beet red. BUT THE POINT IS....

I don't mind scheduling. Even a month in advance. It gives me something to look forward to.

I don't mind whether it's insert tab A in slot B. It's that it isn't a chore. It isn't a burden. It is intimate time between two lovers that are enjoying making each other feel good. Even if it's just one making the other feel good, you don't have to feel guilty about it. You're not laying there going "He's timing me to get done as fast as possible to get back to his game." Don't just look at it like "press button A, flip this switch, twiddle this knob, and DONE! woo hoo! New record. 3.5 seconds!" Take your own pleasure in it. Enjoy your lover's responses. I don't need you to feel exactly what I feel. Just enjoy.

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Telecaster68
Quote

 You're not laying there going "He's timing me to get done as fast as possible to get back to his game." Don't just look at it like "press button A, flip this switch, twiddle this knob, and DONE! woo hoo! New record. 3.5 seconds!" Take your own pleasure in it. Enjoy your lover's responses. I don't need you to feel exactly what I feel. Just enjoy.

I think the 'taking your own pleasure in it' is the problem though. That's exactly what asexuals can't do. Or in some cases, they have such ramped up expectations of what sex should be like that they'd rather not try in the first place. That's understandable. What isn't understandable is that they'd rather their partner was miserable than try.

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JDP
Just now, Gleep said:

That is exactly what I'm bemoaning on here that I miss. It's not his plumbing. He can do more to me with a couple fingers than... well that's tmi and then some and makes me blush beet red. BUT THE POINT IS....

I don't mind scheduling. Even a month in advance. It gives me something to look forward to.

I don't mind whether it's insert tab A in slot B. It's that it isn't a chore. It isn't a burden. It is intimate time between two lovers that are enjoying making each other feel good. Even if it's just one making the other feel good, you don't have to feel guilty about it. You're not laying there going "He's timing me to get done as fast as possible to get back to his game." Don't just look at it like "press button A, flip this switch, twiddle this knob, and DONE! woo hoo! New record. 3.5 seconds!" Take your own pleasure in it. Enjoy your lover's responses. I don't need you to feel exactly what I feel. Just enjoy.

I am not gifted with a partner nearly as articulate as you, Gleep.

 

I really wish she'd grow up a little bit and actually talk to me about this stuff instead of just retreating into a shell.

 

My wife will take a bullet for me, but she is vain. She wants nothing out of pity, and unless I am hard as a rock and ravaging her, she will not see me as properly motivated.

 

That I have heart problems doesn't seem to matter. She wants the PIV and for me it's not worth the spike in blood pressure and angina.

 

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JDP
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think the 'taking your own pleasure in it' is the problem though. That's exactly what asexuals can't do. Or in some cases, they have such ramped up expectations of what sex should be like that they'd rather not try in the first place. That's understandable. What isn't understandable is that they'd rather their partner was miserable than try.

If the complaining partner that refuses, in many cases, to receive sex without desire.

 

The sexuals never address that, you included.

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Gleep
1 minute ago, asexjoe said:

I am not gifted with a partner nearly as articulate as you, Gleep.

 

I really wish she'd grow up a little bit and actually talk to me about this stuff instead of just retreating into a shell.

 

My wife will take a bullet for me, but she is vain. She wants nothing out of pity, and unless I am hard as a rock and ravaging her, she will not see me as properly motivated.

 

That I have heart problems doesn't seem to matter. She wants the PIV and for me it's not worth the spike in blood pressure and angina.

 

If I really require dangly bits, they're available as after-market accessories. I don't need them to be permanently attached to my lover. And again, I'm not after passion. And I'm going to say something as a bi woman and I don't want anybody's knickers to get twisted, but PiV isn't all that and a bag of chips. That's how we're made to procreate, but that isn't what leaves the biggest puddle on the bed afterwards where you can't say coherent words for 30 minutes. There's other appendages and after market accessories and a WHOLE HELL OF A LOT of imagination to make us better than animals shagging on the sidewalk.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

I think the 'taking your own pleasure in it' is the problem though. That's exactly what asexuals can't do. Or in some cases, they have such ramped up expectations of what sex should be like that they'd rather not try in the first place. That's understandable. What isn't understandable is that they'd rather their partner was miserable than try.

I'd back this down just a smidge.... I hate generalizations, and especially to entire groups of people. Sex is oversold in the western world. The breathless passion is expected and there's a lot of pressure on men especially to perform.

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Telecaster68
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That I have heart problems doesn't seem to matter. She wants the PIV and for me it's not worth the spike in blood pressure and angina

Yeah, she should compromise over that.

 

Quote

If the complaining partner that refuses, in many cases, to receive sex without desire.

It depends on what 'without desire' means in practice. If every muscle in your body, and your expression, is emanating 'is it over yet, or do I have to do some more simultaneous equations in my head', and you're laying stock still with your eyes closed, then it's an experience no sexual would want. It's horrible and rapey, and better avoided. But if you're in the moment, being affectionate (as opposed to wildly rampant), and clearly enjoying their pleasure even though you have no idea why they're enjoying it so much... then to me, there's some shared pleasure and you're showing you care about your partner's needs, and refusing that seems petulant to me.

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JDP
3 minutes ago, Gleep said:

I'd back this down just a smidge.... I hate generalizations, and especially to entire groups of people. Sex is oversold in the western world. The breathless passion is expected and there's a lot of pressure on men especially to perform.

Boy you sure got that right.

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JDP
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Yeah, she should compromise over that.

 

It depends on what 'without desire' means in practice. If every muscle in your body, and your expression, is emanating 'is it over yet, or do I have to do some more simultaneous equations in my head', and you're laying stock still with your eyes closed, then it's an experience no sexual would want. It's horrible and rapey, and better avoided. But if you're in the moment, being affectionate (as opposed to wildly rampant), and clearly enjoying their pleasure even though you have no idea why they're enjoying it so much... then to me, there's some shared pleasure and you're showing you care about your partner's needs, and refusing that seems petulant to me.

I'm moving but my eyes are always closed. I have to concentrate to keep it going. I've always been that way.

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Telecaster68
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 The breathless passion is expected and there's a lot of pressure on men especially to perform.

Well... speaking as a man... (although an older one, and apparently relatively unbothered by societal expectations, admittedly), I've never particularly felt a performance pressure. My experience reflects what you were saying - even if I wasn't feeling the breathless passion, my obvious enjoyment of giving pleasure regardless, say with non PIV activities, was always fine, as far as I know. I'd expec that never showing any passion, urgency, or hunger would be a problem, but not insurmountable if, er, other things were happily provided.

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Gleep
Just now, asexjoe said:

I'm moving but my eyes are always closed. I have to concentrate to keep it going. I've always been that way.

Need two key pieces of communication here. I tend to want to talk things to death.

"Are you enjoying yourself?"

"Is there something else you'd rather be doing with me?"

If you're really enjoying yourself, by all means, carry on. He can't finish unless he's watching porn. If that's how you enjoy yourself, ENJOY! But if it's a "grit your teeth and imagine you're doing anything but" ... no... sorry. Not interested. Sorry I'm a burden.

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Telecaster68
4 minutes ago, asexjoe said:

I'm moving but my eyes are always closed. I have to concentrate to keep it going. I've always been that way.

Do you touch? Kiss? Tease? Show any engagement so you're not entirely robotic? Vary the routine? Do anything spontaneous?

 

None of those requires rampant wild desire, just behaving as though sex isn't a mental tick list of tasks and you're paying attention to her.

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JDP

It was never like that, Gleep. I always prided myself on being a good lover.

 

The one thing I'm not proud of is choose sexual partners to whom I wasn't attracted. It never matter for the first 30 years or so of my sexual life with women.

 

It only matters now because increasingly my imagination fails me. It's like the secret is out now.

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JDP
2 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Do you touch? Kiss? Tease? Show any engagement so you're not entirely robotic? Vary the routine? Do anything spontaneous?

I do what I'm supposed to do.

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