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The "Sex" 'urge': Fact or Fallacy?


vega57

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57 minutes ago, Jade Cross said:

I can see the discrepancies which does bring up an interestimg point.

 

In a purely instinctual way, if all species were hardwired to procreate (Note I say procreate not seek sex for gratification) then even as aces, we would still want to have an offspring of our own at some point which is the case some aces but not all of us desire this.

 

Now if we take it from a purely grafication point, if we aces dont seek sex on our own, it would make it seem like sex is less of a biological drive and more of a taught behaviour. I know this tends to generate alot of controversy but at the same time the "I did it for my partner/to be normal/to be accepted/etc" are so rampart that you really cant help but question the overall veracity of sex.

 

 

 

Hmmm....Yes, I agree.  And this is EXACTLY the point. 

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29 minutes ago, sithgirlix said:

I would like to read that book.  I'm in the firm belief this thought would only relate to asexuals, aromantics, or those sexually-repulsed.  From all the advice given to me as to why I had such a dismal libido and almost no drive to have sex, for everyone I interacted with it was something that came naturally and they did not need to be taught that I somehow lacked.  Not that my parents didn't teach me properly or that I just hadn't been exposed to it yet, but that I lacked something others had.  Sure, this is pretty mean assuming that all normal humans have libido, but it's still the reactions I got from sexuals who never considered that someone wouldn't have a libido.

I think if you traced back the 'awakening' of you libido, you could probably answer some questions.  And, be pretty surprised at the answers!

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NoLongerActive1234

A desire for partnered sex is not learnt or based on some societal pressure at least not in the majority. I am about 99% sure that if the norm was to masturbate and not to have partnered sex people would still seek it out. It is innate for most people just like how one can say that about being attracted to either the opposite or same gender. 
People who struggle with hypersexuality and finding relief by not masturbating as much....that has to do with addiction, it can happen with anything. I don't think it has to do much with whatever the person's natural sex drive is but moreso getting into a loop about something. When that happens removing oneself from what one is addicted to can help.

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10 minutes ago, asexjoe said:

That's always the underlying premise behind these "studies," that partnered sex is the norm and unpartnered sex is abnormal.

 

That's why I don't regard asexuality as a sexual "orientation."

*Claps wildly*

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6 minutes ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

Sorry Joe, you are wrong about the orientation thing. I never made a decision to be asexual, I've always just been this way. Just because someone chooses the desire to have sex as the paradigm doesn't imply or mean anything about asexuality being an orientation.  One doesn't logically follow from the other.

Having always been asexual doesn't qualify it as a SEXUAL orientation.

 

Straights, gays, lesbians -- they're sexuals. They have a sexual orientation.

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3 minutes ago, MistySpring said:

A desire for partnered sex is not learnt or based on some societal pressure at least not in the majority. I am about 99% sure that if the norm was to masturbate and not to have partnered sex people would still seek it out.

People DO still seek it out EVEN if they have partnered sex.  Do you really believe that married partners DON'T masturbate after they're married???? 

 

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It is innate for most people just like how one can say that about being attracted to either the opposite or same gender. 

Nope.  Can't say that either because it isn't true. 


 

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People who struggle with hypersexuality and finding relief by not masturbating as much....that has to do with addiction, it can happen with anything. I don't think it has to do much with whatever the person's natural sex drive is but moreso getting into a loop about something. When that happens removing oneself from what one is addicted to can help.

I guess it depends on your definition of "natural" sex "drive". 

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Joe, orientation just means a position, and it is a position on sex. There is also the added connotation that it is unable to be changed or altered, which I also agree with. So to use baby words, it is a position on sexuality in that I do not wish to participate also that this is the way I was born. 

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20 minutes ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

 

Libido is the sex drive, it is a synonym. It is a difference without a distinction and arbitrary at that.

Libido is NOT the drive for "sex"; it's the 'drive' for ORGASM...which can happen WITHOUT sex. 

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NoLongerActive1234
12 minutes ago, vega57 said:

People DO still seek it out EVEN if they have partnered sex.  Do you really believe that married partners DON'T masturbate after they're married???? 

I never said that they don't.....What's your point? Do you mean to say that seeking out masturbation is innate but seeking out partnered sex isn't? Why can't both be innate and natural to people? 

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Nope.  Can't say that either because it isn't true. 

Uhm...care to elaborate instead of just saying it isn't true? That's not a convincing statement.

 

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1 minute ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

Joe, orientation just means a position, and it is a position on sex. There is also the added connotation that it is unable to be changed or altered, which I also agree with. So to use baby words, it is a position on sexuality in that I do not wish to participate also that this is the way I was born. 

That is not how sexuals understand use of the term, and it matters. This site is ostensibly about "educating" them about asexuality.

 

Just as atheism isn't a religious orientation, asexuality is not a sexual orientation.

 

That you were born an asexual isn't really relevant, is it? Who is to say asexuality can't be acquired? What difference does it make?

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21 minutes ago, asexjoe said:

I apologize if I offended, but I was posing the question on the way to making a point.

 

If he simply stopped having sex with you, if he declared that he'd rather just masturbate, would you sense a loss? Would you be disappointed?

Ah okay.  No offence taken or perceived.  Just wasn't sure where you were going with it.

I wouldn't feel a loss as I do not need or desire sex to be a part of our relationship.  He'd sure as hell feel a loss and disappointment if I stopped having sex with him.  

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Most people do have a desire and drive for sex, that's just the way it is as we reproduce sexually and those who don't have that drive and desire are less likely to have children and thus (if orientation is at least in part genetic) are less likely to pass on those genes.

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2 minutes ago, sithgirlix said:

Ah okay.  No offence taken or perceived.  Just wasn't sure where you were going with it.

I wouldn't feel a loss as I do not need or desire sex to be a part of our relationship.  He'd sure as hell feel a loss and disappointment if I stopped having sex with him.  

I guess I should ask him.

 

I don't understand how sex can mean much to him if you're only doing it out of compassion. When I hear sexuals talking about "intimacy," they talk about sexual pleasure being exchanged, not just provided by one party to another.

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3 minutes ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

No one in the field of psychology uses the term as the drive for orgasm. You don't get to make up uses for words that are at best esoteric and at worst spurious so you can win an argument.

Here is the Merriam Webster definition and you can also look up Freud who used the term frequently.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libido

The psychology textbooks are written by sexuals. Of course they are going to conflate an urge to masturbate with an urge to copulate.

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8 minutes ago, MistySpring said:

I never said that they don't.....What's your point? Do you mean to say that seeking out masturbation is innate but seeking out partnered sex isn't? Why can't both be innate and natural to people? 

Uhm...care to elaborate instead of just saying it isn't true? That's not a convincing statement.

 

O.k.  Please prove to me how it's "innate".

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6 minutes ago, Retrobot said:

Most people do have a desire and drive for sex, that's just the way it is as we reproduce sexually and those who don't have that drive and desire are less likely to have children and thus (if orientation is at least in part genetic) are less likely to pass on those genes.

I agree, but that drive in and of itself is weak. It isn't enough to explain cultural obsession with partnered sex.

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You guys have to be trolls, to try and redefine words to suit your needs, to ignore the fact that an orientation isn't some absolute position but a relative one, the attempt to try and move sexuality and asexuality apart, and say one isn't related to the other is an attempt at special pleading for asexuality and is logically fallacious. 

One question: do atheists relate to religion or do they relate to video games? 

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4 minutes ago, asexjoe said:

The psychology textbooks are written by sexuals. Of course they are going to conflate an urge to masturbate with an urge to copulate.

I think that is a terrible reason to discredit psychologists and psychology research or textbooks.  99% of the population is sexual and you can't discount their findings because of their sexual bias.  

 

Personally I think the term "sex drive" would just be shorthand for sexual desire.  Sure the desire to have sex and copulate is a sexual desire, but so is the desire to reach sexual climax or orgasm through masturbation.  I would describe them both as sexual desires and sexual drives even though masturbation is not the same as sex, but sex drive can be used as shorthand.  

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12 minutes ago, vega57 said:

O.k.  Please prove to me how it's "innate".

you're the one making the claim (your OP).  the burden of proof is on you

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18 minutes ago, sithgirlix said:

Ah okay.  No offence taken or perceived.  Just wasn't sure where you were going with it.

I wouldn't feel a loss as I do not need or desire sex to be a part of our relationship.  He'd sure as hell feel a loss and disappointment if I stopped having sex with him.  

Why?

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Just now, Mermaidy said:

you're the one making the claim (your OP).  the burden of proof is on you

I believe I've already demonstrated that. 

 

You're turn...

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21 minutes ago, Retrobot said:

Most people do have a desire and drive for sex, that's just the way it is as we reproduce sexually and those who don't have that drive and desire are less likely to have children and thus (if orientation is at least in part genetic) are less likely to pass on those genes.

Do they have a desire for SEX or for ORGASMS? 

 

And while we're likely to reproduce through sex, it doesn't mean that we necessarily have the desire for sex.  We can reproduce without having the desire for sex in itself.

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3 minutes ago, sithgirlix said:

I think that is a terrible reason to discredit psychologists and psychology research or textbooks.  99% of the population is sexual and you can't discount their findings because of their sexual bias. 

I can, I should, and I do.

 

Why should asexuality be an object of study?

 

I don't fuck. I don't eat chorizo, either. Should I be studied to learn why I don't? What would be the underlying premise?

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23 minutes ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

No one in the field of psychology uses the term as the drive for orgasm.

And yet that very same "psychology" has demonstrated that wanting an orgasm and wanted sex to achieve it are separate issues.  We used to use the word "gay" to mean "happy".  Nowadays it means "homosexual".  And it became that way simply by usage. 

 

Sex can be the same way. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mermaidy said:

you're the one making the claim (your OP).  the burden of proof is on you

Can't prove a 'negative'.  So, in the world of law, the burden of proof is on YOU. 

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12 minutes ago, ABryonJ.maybe? said:

You guys have to be trolls, to try and redefine words to suit your needs, to ignore the fact that an orientation isn't some absolute position but a relative one, the attempt to try and move sexuality and asexuality apart, and say one isn't related to the other is an attempt at special pleading for asexuality and is logically fallacious. 

One question: do atheists relate to religion or do they relate to video games? 

Nonsense. I would wager most asexuals on this forum do not wish to be confused with sexuals.

 

The "a" in "asexuality" is from the Greek for "without." Someone who doesn't have a sexuality can't "orient" to it.

 

There is nothing relative about asexuality. You're either asexual or you're not.

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14 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Why?

Because: 

1 hour ago, sithgirlix said:

According to my partner, it's not the same type of gratification.  He enjoys sex for the partnership of it, the joining of two people coming together and connecting.  Having sex helps him feel this.  It's different with me from others as I don't really reciprocate these feelings, but it's still different from just jacking off.  It's another person being with you and exposing themselves to you in a very intimate and trusting way.  How is that solely something derived from religion?

 

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5 minutes ago, vega57 said:

Can't prove a 'negative'.  So, in the world of law, the burden of proof is on YOU. 

huh? you're claiming the urge for sex is learned, not instinctual.  so you need to prove that claim.  You can't say "[claim].  prove to me I'm wrong"

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