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Somewhat related to asexuality


Wario

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I found a discussion about sex, women, etc. But there's one guy in there who makes a few points I think asexuals can agree with. He even sounds like an asexual until he mentions he likes boobs. I'm going to copy the bits relating to what I'm talking about here because the actual topic is so long it literally took me an entire afternoon of reading it non-stop. But here it is for those who want to go through everything. It's certainly an interesting discussion.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.men/bro...97a?q=blah&

It's hard to find exactly where this little debate started but this is as good as any.

From: shinypenny - view profile

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Andre Lieven writes:

> > This is all nice and sounds " sweet ", but the reality is that not a little

> > of sex between long termers, isn't that great. While not a little of ONS

> > type sex is.

> This is not a problem for people who attach a low priority to sex. Sex

> is a biological drive, like eating or going to the toilet; its only

> particularity is that it is not a _necessary_ drive--one will not die

> without sex. In many people, sex drive is weak enough to be ignored or

> to be readily satisfied by any reasonably good sex. A lack of "fabulous

> sex" for these many people is not an important factor in life; they seek

> only to satisfy whatever drive they have, so that they can move on to

> other things without having the sex drive as a distraction.

Mxmsmanic, I've been admiring your posts and relating to them, but you

lost me on this one. :-)

I just can't relate to this. For me, it's more like sex is a biological

drive (I definetly get cranky and irritable when it's been a long

time), one that I would have a very hard time going without. No, I

wouldn't die as I would if I stopped eating, but something would be

very missing in my life.

Sex for me is a celebration of the body, mind, spirit all wrapped into

one. Actually, I do approach eating in much the same way, too. It's

more than just necessary sustenance and any food will do. That, to me,

may feed the body but not the mind and the soul. Eating is a sensual

celebration of colors, smells, tastes, and should be approached in that

way by setting a beautiful table, pouring a nice glass of wine, and

sitting down to an unhurried shared experience that involves more than

just the food but lively conversation too.

What other things would you move on to, after removing sex drive as a

distraction? I guess I don't get this either (just as I never

understood how celibacy could get any monk or priest closer to God).

Sex drive shouldn't be a distraction. It should be embraced and honored

and incorporated as a part of your total daily experience as a human.

And I think that's what I'm saying here, that most ONS are not about

honoring, but rather are the equivalent of standing at the kitchen

counter shoving saltine crackers in your face because you're dying of

hunger and in a rush and any food will do. Every now and then that sort

of meal might work, but over time you start to suffer.

From: Mxsmanic - view profile

shinypenny writes:

> And since women tend to have longer orgasms with the ability for

> multiples, you cannot even compare them based on number of orgasms they

> seek. I am lucky in that my sweetie is one of those rare men who can

> have multiple orgasms. It's a good thing because otherwise he'd have a

> hard time keeping up with me and my orgasms that while they may take

> some time to get started, just go on and on without end. I do have to

> give him some long breaks afterwards so he can recharge and recover for

> the next go-around. :-)

It sounds terrible. Why would anyone want to be afflicted with orgasms

that go on and on or repeat? Better to just get it over with and then

think about something else.

> And I believe you already mentioned magazines like Cosmo. Every other

> article is about sex. If women had less interest in sex than men, why

> would they be buying that magazine?

The most successful women's magazines are those that contain sex

articles and horoscopes. Other things have been tried, but they don't

work nearly as well. Same for women's Web sites.

> Yeah, which is why women are just as likely as men to have affairs

> during their marriage.

That's only logical, otherwise there wouldn't be enough women to

accommodate all the men having affairs.

From: shinypenny - view profile

Mxsmanic wrote:

> I've known a number of women who became aroused in situations that

> seemed entirely non-sexual to me, which rather conflicts with the notion

> that they would not often reach such a point, particularly if they

> reached it and I did not.

Yes, you cannot compare something like a woman looking at a nude male

body, vs a man looking at a nude female body, and conclude based on

arousal patterns that women desire sex less than men.

The truth is that women are aroused by all sorts of things and

situations beyond looking at nude bodies.

Here's but one example to consider: ever ask yourself why women like to

get pedicures and manicures so often? It's a highly sensual experience.

Heck, clothes shopping can be, too.

From: Mxsmanic - view profile

shinypenny writes:

> I just can't relate to this. For me, it's more like sex is a biological

> drive (I definetly get cranky and irritable when it's been a long

> time), one that I would have a very hard time going without. No, I

> wouldn't die as I would if I stopped eating, but something would be

> very missing in my life.

Sex is biologically mediated. You're interested in sex because you are

wired that way, and (especially) because hormonal influences maintain

that interest. Without these, sex would be a total waste of time for

you. You engage in sex because you're programmed to want to engage in

sex; it has no merit on its own.

It follows, then, that if your interest in sex declines, you won't care

about not getting it, and you may prefer other things instead.

Additionally, even if you have a very strong sex drive, it's a physical

drive, not an intellectual or emotional one. If you have no

intellectual or emotional interest in sex, it's very irritating to have

a physical interest. It's like always having to go to the toilet.

> Sex for me is a celebration of the body, mind, spirit all wrapped into

> one.

You give it credit that it does not deserve. But most people do that.

> Actually, I do approach eating in much the same way, too. It's

> more than just necessary sustenance and any food will do. That, to me,

> may feed the body but not the mind and the soul. Eating is a sensual

> celebration of colors, smells, tastes, and should be approached in that

> way by setting a beautiful table, pouring a nice glass of wine, and

> sitting down to an unhurried shared experience that involves more than

> just the food but lively conversation too.

I'm not into eating. I eat to live, or whenever I'm hungry.

> What other things would you move on to, after removing sex drive as a

> distraction?

The rest of the universe, including endless intellectual pursuits in all

their manifold variety. There's so much to do, and so little time!

Where does one begin?

> I guess I don't get this either (just as I never

> understood how celibacy could get any monk or priest closer to God).

Celibacy doesn't help with spirituality unless it is in the absence of a

desire for sex. If you want sex but try to abstain, you simply become

more obsessed with sex.

> Sex drive shouldn't be a distraction.

It can scarcely be anything else.

> It should be embraced and honored and incorporated as a part of your

> total daily experience as a human.

Like going to the toilet?

From: shinypenny - view profile

Mxsmanic wrote:

> It sounds terrible. Why would anyone want to be afflicted with orgasms

> that go on and on or repeat? Better to just get it over with and then

> think about something else.

LOL. It is true that sometimes I have to deliberately stop them,

because we're late to get somewhere or we're tired and need our sleep

or I start feeling selfish and want to switch so he gets his turn, too.

Mxsmanic wrote:

> shinypenny writes:

> > I just can't relate to this. For me, it's more like sex is a biological

> > drive (I definetly get cranky and irritable when it's been a long

> > time), one that I would have a very hard time going without. No, I

> > wouldn't die as I would if I stopped eating, but something would be

> > very missing in my life.

> Sex is biologically mediated. You're interested in sex because you are

> wired that way, and (especially) because hormonal influences maintain

> that interest. Without these, sex would be a total waste of time for

> you. You engage in sex because you're programmed to want to engage in

> sex; it has no merit on its own.

I think you're wrong about that, Mxsmanic. If you were right, why are

there so many post-menopausal women still actively enjoying and seeking

a healthy sex life? I have heard many of them say the sex only gets

better once hormones die down and there's no worry of getting pregnant.

> It follows, then, that if your interest in sex declines, you won't care

> about not getting it, and you may prefer other things instead.

> Additionally, even if you have a very strong sex drive, it's a physical

> drive, not an intellectual or emotional one. If you have no

> intellectual or emotional interest in sex, it's very irritating to have

> a physical interest. It's like always having to go to the toilet.

> > Sex for me is a celebration of the body, mind, spirit all wrapped into

> > one.

> You give it credit that it does not deserve. But most people do that.

And I think you're not giving it nearly enough credit!

> > Actually, I do approach eating in much the same way, too. It's

> > more than just necessary sustenance and any food will do. That, to me,

> > may feed the body but not the mind and the soul. Eating is a sensual

> > celebration of colors, smells, tastes, and should be approached in that

> > way by setting a beautiful table, pouring a nice glass of wine, and

> > sitting down to an unhurried shared experience that involves more than

> > just the food but lively conversation too.

> I'm not into eating. I eat to live, or whenever I'm hungry.

That is sad. :-(

Eating and sex are very much a part of the human experience, and are

meant to be enjoyed and celebrated.

> > What other things would you move on to, after removing sex drive as a

> > distraction?

> The rest of the universe, including endless intellectual pursuits in all

> their manifold variety. There's so much to do, and so little time!

> Where does one begin?

Mind and body are not meant to be disconnected like that. Through the

bodily pleasures, you can explore the rest of the universe. Our bodies

are the portals.

> > I guess I don't get this either (just as I never

> > understood how celibacy could get any monk or priest closer to God).

> Celibacy doesn't help with spirituality unless it is in the absence of a

> desire for sex. If you want sex but try to abstain, you simply become

> more obsessed with sex.

Through sex with someone I love, I find myself getting closer to God.

> > Sex drive shouldn't be a distraction.

> It can scarcely be anything else.

You're making me feel sorry for you. :-(

> > It should be embraced and honored and incorporated as a part of your

> > total daily experience as a human.

> Like going to the toilet?

LOL!

Guess what I'm getting for my birthday this year? A programmable Toto

washlet (you can google if you're interested - includes bidet, dryer,

and heated toilet seat). We saw them all over Japan, and I now have to

have one. Raises the act of toileting to a spiritual experience, LOL.

The Japanese are highly sensual and they understand that bodily

routines should be a ritualized experience, and yes, that does indeed

include toileting. Nearly every household and public restrooms offer a

washlet. The manufacturer tried to sell into the US years ago, but has

not made much progress, which is little surprise.

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Sorry about the length, folks. Just thought you might find it interesting. It's still not done yet, I'm just breaking it up a little so it's not quite the wall of text it could be.

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From: Mxsmanic - view profile

shinypenny writes:

> I think you're wrong about that, Mxsmanic. If you were right, why are

> there so many post-menopausal women still actively enjoying and seeking

> a healthy sex life?

At least one-third of post-menopausal women say that they've lost all

interest in sex, if I remember my studies correctly.

> And I think you're not giving it nearly enough credit!

It does not merit any special credit. It's a wired-in behavior, nothing

more.

> That is sad.

Not for me, since I don't care about eating.

> Eating and sex are very much a part of the human experience, and are

> meant to be enjoyed and celebrated.

Heroin addiction and torture are part of the human experience, too, but

that doesn't mean that one should experience them.

> Mind and body are not meant to be disconnected like that.

According to whom?

> Through the

> bodily pleasures, you can explore the rest of the universe. Our bodies

> are the portals.

Most metaphysical schools of thought hold exactly the opposite. A

preoccupation with the physical holds us back.

> Through sex with someone I love, I find myself getting closer to God.

How? God isn't interested in sex.

> You're making me feel sorry for you.

A lot of people who are emotional and addicted to various behaviors

"feel sorry" for anyone who doesn't experience the same overpowering

emotions or engage in the same behaviors. But I can assure that I miss

nothing.

> Guess what I'm getting for my birthday this year? A programmable Toto

> washlet (you can google if you're interested - includes bidet, dryer,

> and heated toilet seat). We saw them all over Japan, and I now have to

> have one. Raises the act of toileting to a spiritual experience, LOL.

You're very keen on physical sensations, it seems. What will you do

after you die?

shinypenny writes:

> Yes, you cannot compare something like a woman looking at a nude male

> body, vs a man looking at a nude female body, and conclude based on

> arousal patterns that women desire sex less than men.

Women are just as aroused by erotic images as men. Their physiological

response proves it. However, they are conditioned to hide and deny

their feelings, and they become very good at it.

> The truth is that women are aroused by all sorts of things and

> situations beyond looking at nude bodies.

Like men.

> Here's but one example to consider: ever ask yourself why women like to

> get pedicures and manicures so often? It's a highly sensual experience.

I don't know any women who are interested in either of these things.

I do know women who are aroused by massages, even massages with no

sexual motivations behind them.

From: shinypenny - view profile

Mxsmanic wrote:

> You're very keen on physical sensations, it seems. What will you do

> after you die?

I used to be a lot less so, but I've changed with age and the

realization that I will die someday. Why else are we on this earth and

in a human body if not to enjoy the full experience, and that includes

phsyical sensations?

It's all about balance, of course, and that's what I strive for.

Have you ever gone running? When I used to run (had to give it up due

to back problems), it was such a total mind-body experience. Ask any

runner and he'll know what I mean.

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From: Mxsmanic - view profile

shinypenny writes:

> I used to be a lot less so, but I've changed with age and the

> realization that I will die someday. Why else are we on this earth and

> in a human body if not to enjoy the full experience, and that includes

> phsyical sensations?

We presumably all get tired of the sensations eventually; and that's

when we don't have to come back.

> Have you ever gone running?

No. My physique is very poorly adapted to it, except for short sprints

(too muscular and heavy for endurance activities, but okay for short

spurts of activity that don't exhaust on-board oxygen supplies).

> When I used to run (had to give it up due

> to back problems), it was such a total mind-body experience. Ask any

> runner and he'll know what I mean.

It's agony. It is probably at the bottom of my list of sports, and I

don't like sports to begin with.

And here's a big comment that makes him sound asexual along with the rest of his arguments.

From: Mxsmanic - view profile

Dolores writes:

> Mxsmanic, although I am sure it's of little consolation to you right

> now, you'll find that your ability to relate to women will make you very

> popular with them when you're in your 30's, possibly sooner.

I'm not holding my breath.

Actually, I do already get along with them very well--it's just that

they are not interested in me romantically. That alone isn't much of a

problem, except that women (like men) tend to take platonic friendships

far less seriously than sexual relationships, even though the latter

seem to more often bring them grief and don't seem to last as long.

> Hopefully you don't share the belief that women over 25 are ancient

> hags, because if you don't you will undoubtedly start getting a

> lot of pussy as the women in your life grow up and start asserting

> themselves.

There's no fixed correlation between age and being (or not being) a hag.

I just look at every woman individually.

Anyway, I think that's it. If you have trouble getting who is talking, just look at the arrows before a line. If it has arrows, then it's being quoted. Again, sorry about the length, but this is still a great deal easier than trying to sift through the topic yourself.

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