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Are sexuals and asexuals really compatible?

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gaogao

Ahh, okay! Thank you for clarifying. I didn't know there was such crossover.

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Philip027
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So just wanted to say, basically I was just looking at your personality test you have posted below whenever you write something. We have exactly the opposite personalities. I find that so cool and would you find you super interesting just to hear your points of views on things and to learn from someone so opposite than me!

oh my XD

 

Well, I think I'm super boring >_>  but if there's something you wanted to know, feel free to ask.  I'm an open book

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Telecaster68

Found some research on it...

 

An old post on AVEN had a bunch of links, with a decent commentary on their reliability.

 

 

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GLRDT
22 minutes ago, Philip027 said:

oh my XD

 

Well, I think I'm super boring >_>  but if there's something you wanted to know, feel free to ask.  I'm an open book

Ha ha thanks. I don't have any questions thought out or anything, but if we lived closer it would be cool to hang out with you to get to know you. But I'll just follow you on here and read your opinions about things you post on from time to time. Ha ha that sounds major stalker. Thanks though, if I ever randomly have a specific question to ask you it's nice know you're open to it. Same here too!

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
4 hours ago, dissolved said:

They don't start a new one thinking, "this is the one", each time. 

I do.. Every. Frikken. Time. Y_Y. Because I need to already be deeply in love with someone BEFORE I can desire them sexually or consider a relationship.. And by the time you're in love you're a gonner. Well, I am anyway. *Siiiiiiiiiiigh*

 

That was totally off topic lol, I just saw that comment of yours and was like.... I can't be the only one who does the TOTAL opposite of that. By the time I agree to a relationship with that person, I'm already so in love that I'm sure we are going to be together forever and all that sappy nonsense. Love sucks. But right now I need it Y_Y laaaaaame!!!!

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dissolved
19 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

I do.. Every. Frikken. Time. 

Is it not exhausting? 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
18 minutes ago, dissolved said:

Is it not exhausting? 

Well it's only been like 3(ish) times in my entire life, but it appears to be getting stronger each time :S I'm very clear to the person before we enter a relationship that I'm very, very reluctant to resort to separation, like, ever, and would rather just stay with them forever. They have agreed whole-heartedly each time buuut it turns out I am possibly more serious about it than others are :s ..Regardless, for me, it's literally exhilarating. Falling for someone and truly believing they'll be mine forever and claiming their body and giving my body to them. What's exhausting is when they change their mind :c I just don't know how I can keep going through that, but at the same time my body deeply craves that forever relationship and the love and friendship and partnership and intimacy that comes with that. But breakup pain hurts worse than labour did for me (and I was in labour for 46 hours with my second daughter) ..I'd rather have to go through that again than another breakup :s

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Tarfeather
5 hours ago, dissolved said:

I don't recall equating the two. I've only loved one or perhaps two people, desired more than a dozen and yet I've been in nine sexual relationships. In an ideal world, I would both love and desire someone with whom I'm in a relationship, but realistically I'm only ever going to desire them and care for them at best.

You simply substituted your own definition of love there, although I guess that's my fault for not being explicit enough.

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dissolved
30 minutes ago, Tarfeather said:

You simply substituted your own definition of love there, although I guess that's my fault for not being explicit enough.

No, no, clearly my words, on their journey to Germany, get scrambled up into the same drivel I always come out with according to you.

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Tarfeather

I don't really understand what you're trying to accomplish by antagonizing me..

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alibali
10 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

But in a relationship, they're inextricably woven together for most people, so that 'why can't you express it in other ways' really doesn't cut it. 

Then it rather proves the point, that sexuals and asexuals are incompatible. I don't think either is more to blame than the other. Yes being asexual affects only a small proportion  of the population, but people can only be blamed if they behave badly. That isn't confined to asexuals.

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Telecaster68

You're right. But a very frequent reaction from asexuals is 'why can't you express it in other ways' phrased in a way that makes clear we really *ought* to be satisfied with that. 

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alibali
5 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm coming to the conclusion my wife has some AS characteristics, but it's a lot more subtle with women. I think there's quite a lot of crossover with AS and asexuality.

I am 

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alibali
5 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm coming to the conclusion my wife has some AS characteristics, but it's a lot more subtle with women. I think there's quite a lot of crossover with AS and asexuality.

Whoops. Just did a test and got a score of 9. Although that probably just explains why I managed to have sexual relationships for so long in spite of the way I felt. I managed to submerge my own feelings for the sake of the other. I just got tired in the end I think.

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MrDane
On 16/8/2017 at 5:39 PM, asexjoe said:

What are you suggesting, then.


Mr. Dane said he would be miserable if he ever gave up on sex.

 

I implied that he would be miserable either way.

Giving up or realizing that you will never have sex again, is like giving up on staying above water and instead let yourself descend into murky waters. It is about hope.

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
11 hours ago, MrDane said:

Giving up or realizing that you will never have sex again, is like giving up on staying above water and instead let yourself descend into murky waters. It is about hope.

(this is aimed at asexuals by the way)

 

To try to make this easier to understand for asexuals, how would you feel if your partner decided they didn't want to talk with you anymore, and maybe even felt that you wanting to talk with them asking too much - putting pressure on them, which they find uncomfortable just because you'd like to talk like any other couple does, but your partner just no longer desires to talk with you. That's what having a partner who doesn't ever want sex can feel like, you feel like you've lost something integral and vitally important (for you) to the relationship.. Yet your partner is much more comfortable and happy without it. For the asexuals, could you happily remain in a relationship where your partner never wanted to speak with you, ever, and you knew that any time they did speak they were only doing it reluctantly for your sake but felt very uncomfortable about it?

 

(obviously sex isn't as important as speaking, I'm just trying to give an example of something other than sex which is integral to many relationships so that the aces here might be able to understand better what it's like for a sexual living in a sexless relationship or facing the prospect of one. Imagine living in a relationship with no speaking, no communication. Could you remain truly happy like that or would you feel something vital is missing?)

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alibali
30 minutes ago, FictoVore. said:

(this is aimed at asexuals by the way)

 

To try to make this easier to understand for asexuals, how would you feel if your partner decided they didn't want to talk with you anymore, and maybe even felt that you wanting to talk with them asking too much - putting pressure on them, which they find uncomfortable just because you'd like to talk like any other couple does, but your partner just no longer desires to talk with you. That's what having a partner who doesn't ever want sex can feel like, you feel like you've lost something integral and vitally important (for you) to the relationship.. Yet your partner is much more comfortable and happy without it. For the asexuals, could you happily remain in a relationship where your partner never wanted to speak with you, ever, and you knew that any time they did speak they were only doing it reluctantly for your sake but felt very uncomfortable about it?

 

(obviously sex isn't as important as speaking, I'm just trying to give an example of something other than sex which is integral to many relationships so that the aces here might be able to understand better what it's like for a sexual living in a sexless relationship or facing the prospect of one. Imagine living in a relationship with no speaking, no communication. Could you remain truly happy like that or would you feel something vital is missing?)

Yes, although he stopped talking long before the sex stopped.  Although maybe a bit more talkative when  we managed a weekend or two away without the kids, and more sex was on the agenda.  I came to the conclusion that it was tit for tat.  And I did leave. I am not bitter about it, but it certainly for me puts sex in an even worse light, that I could only have other intimacy when I was "putting out." Neither of us wanted to leave because of the kids. He didn't want me to leave when they went to university and we had the empty nest. By that time we were not having sex, talking or doing anything together. Go figure!

 

We actually talk more now we have been separated for 2 years.

 

My point is that it is hard for asexuals too in a mixed relationship.

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Telecaster68

Having wheeled out the conversational analogy before, I'd just add this: not only can you no longer talk with your partner, they're insistent that you can't talk to anyone else either because they know it would probably mean you'd form a bond with the other person. So their position means you will never talk with anyone else while you're with them.

 

Would it be so surprising if you became depressed, distant and resentful, regardless of how much you loved them?  And that suggestions like 'why don't we watch a sunset a together' seemed to miss the point laughably? 

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alibali
1 minute ago, Telecaster68 said:

Having wheeled out the conversational analogy before, I'd just add this: not only can you no longer talk with your partner, they're insistent that you can't talk to anyone else either because they know it would probably mean you'd form a bond with the other person. So their position means you will never talk with anyone else while you're with them.

 

Would it be so surprising if you became depressed, distant and resentful, regardless of how much you loved them?  And that suggestions like 'why don't we watch a sunset a together' seemed to miss the point laughably? 

It's not surprising but in my experience only it cuts both ways and means that mixed relationships are not compatible.

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alibali

And if it is clear to both that it is incompatible, then it is a matter of choice for both individual's as to staying or going. It is a choice. It's not like children who remain part of you forever, whether you are with them or not.

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Telecaster68
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 he stopped talking long before the sex stopped.  Although maybe a bit more talkative when  we managed a weekend or two away without the kids, and more sex was on the agenda.  I came to the conclusion that it was tit for tat. 

I don't think it's consciously tit for tat, mostly. Just like in the analogy, sexuals pull back out of self protection because they're hurting, more than anything else, and missing the connection that sex brings. 

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alibali
Just now, Telecaster68 said:

I don't think it's consciously tit for tat, mostly. Just like in the analogy, sexuals pull back out of self protection because they're hurting, more than anything else, and missing the connection that sex brings. 

I don't think it is conscious either.  But it also affects the asexual, because you also feel invalidated as an individual, and because you don't have the same needs it is difficult to understand someone else's needs and why it is so important that the sexual partner can't see you as an individual without sex.  And it still means incompatibility. And as an asexual I don't need sex to feel a connection with people. It is completely unnecessary for me for a relationship, and I am not an isolated hermit.

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Telecaster68

Sexuals do see their partners as individuals - individuals who are also partners, and sexuals are being equally invalidated by the incompatibility. There's one key difference though: the issue that the mutual invalidation revolves around is where ultimately, the asexual gets to enforce their needs over their partner's. 

 

And yes, the sexual could leave. So could the asexual, so as far as the wider issues go, the choices are equal. 

 

I'm not making any particular point about you personally, just trying to elucidate some of the factors in why a one partner not wanting sex is such a big deal. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
1 hour ago, alibali said:

My point is that it is hard for asexuals too in a mixed relationship.

I've been on both sides! I've been the person not wanting or desiring any form of sexual intimacy but feeling like I have to give it (twice every day for 5 years T_T) and on the opposite side (with a different partner) I've been the one longing for closer, more sexual intimacy with someone who wants absolutely nothing to do with anything even remotely sexual, though he still loved me dearly. So yes I know how painful and difficult it is, regardless of whether you're the ace or the sexual! :3 :cake:

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Telecaster68

Twice a day is way, way more often than most asexuals would countenance, Pan (and quite a lot of sexuals). Many blanche at once a month,or simply don't want anything remotely sexual, ever. I'd hate to give the impression that sexuals en masse are feeling distant and depressed because they're only have sex once a day. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Twice a day is way, way more often than most asexuals would countenance, Pan (and quite a lot of sexuals). Many blanche at once a month,or simply don't want anything remotely sexual, ever. I'd hate to give the impression that sexuals en masse are feeling distant and depressed because they're only have sex once a day. 

Hah nah he was way more extreme than most, but even if he'd only wanted it once a week or once a month, I would have still hated it (though it would have been a lot less painful if he'd wanted it less).. I just had no desire for it and would lie awake at night dreaming of a relationship were the guy somehow never wanted sex, though I didn't think that was possible. I know now I have to have a specific type of emotion to be able to actively desire sex, and I never had that emotion for him.. but (online at least) I've gone a LOT more than twice a day for weeks on end with a partner, once I discovered that specific emotion that I need that sets me off haha.

 

Also, my ex only desired a certain type of sex that, it turns out, just bores the hell out of me, though at the time I just assumed it was the only 'real' type of sex there is. But no, I need to feel a certain emotion, and I need less mainstream sexual acts, to be able to actively desire and enjoy sexual activity.. So regardless of whether he wanted it twice a day or once a month, I still would have had to close my eyes, grit my teeth, and try to do maths equations in my head every time he had sex with me just to try to take my mind away from what was happening :P

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novis
On 9/7/2017 at 9:49 AM, Telecaster68 said:

Sexuals do see their partners as individuals - individuals who are also partners, and sexuals are being equally invalidated by the incompatibility. There's one key difference though: the issue that the mutual invalidation revolves around is where ultimately, the asexual gets to enforce their needs over their partner's. 

 

And yes, the sexual could leave. So could the asexual, so as far as the wider issues go, the choices are equal. 

 

I'm not making any particular point about you personally, just trying to elucidate some of the factors in why a one partner not wanting sex is such a big deal. 

I'm struggling with the asexual needs vs sexual needs. I understand logically that a sexual persons desire for sex is important to them in a relationship and they are being invalidated by the incompatibility.

 

From what I can tell the only option here for the asexual person is to pretend to want sex, or go through the motions. And from what I understand, this isn't what sexual people want from their partners. They seem to want the asexual person to desire sex, at least some of the time.

 

Is the bottom line here that either asexuals engage in sexual acts that they don't want or enjoy in order to compromise? And how enjoyable is that's exactly really for the sexual person? Is the sex worth it if it is not for both partners enjoyment?

 

I'm actually in the process of figuring myself and my situation out right now so this is 100% me trying to understand. I would think it the requirement or desire is for intimacy, this can be accomplished in ways other than sex.

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Telecaster68
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I understand logically that a sexual persons desire for sex is important to them in a relationship and they are being invalidated by the incompatibility.

It's not the incompatability that's invalidating, so much as remarks like 'there's no need for sex in a relationship', blanket.

 

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From what I can tell the only option here for the asexual person is to pretend to want sex, or go through the motions. And from what I understand, this isn't what sexual people want from their partners. They seem to want the asexual person to desire sex, at least some of the time.

Personally, yes, although I gather from some asexuals on here that acquiescence works for some sexuals too.

 

But there's a kind of grey area where the compromise can happen, although it doesn't work for everyone. If the asexual partner is clearly getting something from the sex, such as closeness, or some physical pleasure, or enjoying giving their partner pleasure, it's something to work with. It's a bit of a compromise for the sexual, but it's something to talk about and experiment with, at least.

 

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Is the bottom line here that either asexuals engage in sexual acts that they don't want or enjoy in order to compromise? And how enjoyable is that's exactly really for the sexual person? Is the sex worth it if it is not for both partners enjoyment?

I don't think any sexual person would want their partner to do something they find painful or distressing, so if any kind of sexual activity is like that for you, it's pretty much much a dead end. And laying inertly with your eyes closed not moving (which is what asexuals do sometimes) feels rapey and horrible even if it's consensual. But that doesn't have to be the case if the asexual can find something they can engage with in sex (which obviously doesn't have to be PIV. There are other things.)

 

I can see how asexuals feel that agreeing to any kind of sexual activity makes the compromise all on their end of the equation, but consider what would be reasonable (ie normative) expectations in a relationship. Going by Kinsey research, the broadbrush figures for couples' sexual activity is roughly three times a week in their 20s, twice in their thirties, 5-6 times a month in their forties, and then continuing with some kind of sex frequently into the seventies. This will mostly involved both partners making the other feel desired, and strengthening emotional closeness and intimacy. Pretty much none of that is going to happen with an asexual partner, just as a starting point, so for sexuals, we're already compromising before it gets talked about anyway.

 

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 I would think it the requirement or desire is for intimacy, this can be accomplished in ways other than sex.

Conversation/gazing into the sunset holding hands/watching box sets are all lovely and intimate, but sex is uniquely intense and bonding because (partly) the focus of attention is entirely on each other and it brings together physical and emotional vulnerability and trust in a way those things don't. For sexuals, anyway, they fall short of good sex. They're a qualitively different experience.

 

ETA: on the 'wanting partners to want sex' thing: it's not just sex, it's wanting that person, specifically, and finding them sexually attractive, and feeling that hunger for them specifically. Its absence generally makes the sexual partner feel undesirable and rejected. This isn't toddlers crying because they can't have ice-cream; it's more like your partner one day just not wanting to talk to you any more, ever, and you can't talk to anyone else.

 

Asexuals generally say 'but it's not personal - we don't want to have sex at all, not just with you'. We get this, but you're not in a relationship with anyone else, so it's both personal and general. The talking analogy applies here as well.

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MarmadukeMcFluffy

I find that my asexual husband and I are very compatible. I am far happier with him than I have been in any of my past relationships. We're obviously not sexually compatible, but I can have my sexual needs met elsewhere, there important things are that we are compatible in our personalities, interests, and emotional needs.

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novis

@Telecaster68 Thanks for the really detailed response, I appreciate it a lot. Having these kinds of conversations really helps me understand things from the other side of the fence. 

I don't know if I agree with the talking/not talking comparison, but it's pretty tricky to find something to actual compare sex with.

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