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Are sexuals and asexuals really compatible?

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alibali
18 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Men wanting sex and being expected to be the ones pushing for it  is a thing, though I don't quite understand how that turns into people assuming women as a gender don't want it. Every woman I've been with has very, very definitely wanted it as much as me - to the extent that one was really pushy about me doing the whole dominant thing far more than I was naturally inclined to, and talked me into it. As it happened, I really enjoyed it... 

 

I guess the asexuals who don't really care that much about their partners feeling like crap are the flipside of the sexuals who aren't bothered whether their partners are actively enjoying it, and those sexuals probably don't end up agonising on Internet forums. 

 

Also... from what I can tell, many asexuals don't feel as repulsed as you did, and may genuinely be merely 'meh' rather than choking back puke. 

Maybe people talk more about stuff these days but my women friends did not talk about wanting sex.  I had no idea women did. I thought sex on TV and in movies was idealised and the stuff of male fantasies.  I did my part until well into my forties, tried to make myself "better",  never actually refused in my marriage, actually, and realised I was asexual at the tender age of 52!  I can't say I've ever vomited, but have found it quite a distressing experience at times. So I do not count myself as callous. Tried my best. It was impossible. Now I never have to try again. And it is wonderful!!! Other than loneliness of course, but as an asexual there is little I can do about that in a world where everyone at least aspires to be part of a couple.

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dissolved
38 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

Also... from what I can tell, many asexuals don't feel as repulsed as you did, and may genuinely be merely 'meh' rather than choking back puke. 

It will have started out as meh, but five years of meh can easily become barf towards the end. Most of the others were consistently meh. 

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Telecaster68

Well I have no idea what women talk about to each other... I'm just going by being in relationships with them (apart from my wife, latterly). And I definitely wasn't implying you were intentionally being callous, but asexuals' can have a 'your problem' attitude that can feel callous when you're on the receiving end. 

 

I'm a bit confused about your chronology though - didn't you say you were married for two years then your husband spent 15 years not talking much? 

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alibali

No...together since 1992....separated 2 years ago. Never ever told him it was "his problem".  My guilt and feeling that it was my problem is what led me to ummm treat him well.  I had sex because of love, but not for it.  But you can't maintain that when you're in the middle of family stuff and dramas.

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Telecaster68

Thing is for sexuals, sex is kind of a refuge from family stuff and dramas. 

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alibali

Lolol so is having a beer!! That is my most favourite thing to do with people.

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Telecaster68
9 hours ago, alibali said:

Lolol so is having a beer!! That is my most favourite thing to do with people.

So if it's just like a beer, sex is only like going out for a drink... And it would be fine for either partner to go out for multiple beers with someone else? 

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alibali

It's not just like a beer. It's clearly not just like a beer to sexuals.  When I did both I would have rather have had a beer and a drink or two made sex more tolerable or at least more relaxed. My bf/husband etc would rather have sex.  I don't want to have sex. I'm not in a relationship. If you are in a mixed relationship it is hard because you want different things from each other.

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GLRDT
19 hours ago, dissolved said:

Yeah the guilt is worse now than it ever was when it was me saying no. I could very easily let it go and it wouldn't bother me after a little while.

 

But now... It feels hideous because it's kinda rapey. Knowing that they don't really want to go through with it, and up until I'm reminded of that, I still want to do it anyway. Then it just cuts off all desire completely. Even if I still wanted to sleep with them on some level, I don't think my body would've cooperated. 

Hi! I'm gray asexual sex neutral or sex favorable. Haven't figured out that last part yet. Anyhow, I completely understand your feelings if you are dating someone who is asexual sex repulsed.  However I'm gray asexual and while I don't desire or have a need for sex, it can still feel good when it's happening, it's a fun adventure with my SO, and I love pleasing him, also I'm very sensual so I like being close to him. So it is possible for some gray asexuals to compromise. Just because they don't initiate or think about or need sex, it doesn't mean they don't want it if it comes up. I mean, it's not either or. I can lean into sex and get into the mood if my SO initiates and so in a way I can want it or I don't mind it. Don't mind it doesn't mean a firm no, or a no at all, or a I don't want it get away from me. It means, yeah I could have sex now and I want to for him and then when  it's happening, I'm like hey this is fun and it sometimes feels good for me too.  And other times when he initiates and I can't get in the mood, I always  say no in those moments. I never do anything I'm uncomfortable with and as a result, our relationship is working. A mixed relationship involves a lot of trust, communication, honesty, and taking  responsibility for  what you need and how you feel. Just wanted to throw out this other perspective for you to see if it helps!

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Telecaster68
Quote

It's clearly not just like a beer to sexuals.

Well obviously. The comment rankled a bit though because it implies sex is equivalent to going out for a beer in importance.

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alibali
2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

Well obviously. The comment rankled a bit though because it implies sex is equivalent to going out for a beer in importance.

Sex makes the world go round. Without it we wouldn't have children....but the kind of importance we attach to it as individuals varies as much as the individuals involved.

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Tarfeather
On 9/3/2017 at 8:24 PM, dissolved said:

The second mindfuck is along the lines of... why would I want to keep trying to have sex with someone who doesn't reciprocate? The fact that compromise is even a thing in this situation is abhorrent to me.

 

On 9/3/2017 at 10:48 PM, dissolved said:

I can't reconcile in my mind that something I want, something that's meant to be fun and enjoyable and a bonding experience, could not only be boring and make her wish she was doing anything else in the world, but could also leave her feeling like she'd been coerced into something that she could in fact view as vile.

 

I wanted to protest at first, but actually I agree. Only, my conclusion from this has not been that a relationship with an asexual would not work. My conclusion has been that sexual desire is not equivalent to love.

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alibali
8 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

 

 

I wanted to protest at first, but actually I agree. Only, my conclusion from this has not been that a relationship with an asexual would not work. My conclusion has been that sexual desire is not equivalent to love.

Absolutely!

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alibali

What I feel as an asexual is that it is worrying that some sexuals see asexuality as meaning they are incapable of emotion/love/romance. I am pretty sure that most of us have all 3. It's just hard to express that when most people are sexual. 

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Telecaster68
28 minutes ago, alibali said:

Absolutely!

But in a relationship, they're inextricably woven together for most people, so that 'why can't you express it in other ways' really doesn't cut it. 

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)
1 hour ago, Telecaster68 said:

But in a relationship, they're inextricably woven together for most people, so that 'why can't you express it in other ways' really doesn't cut it. 

(May contain slight TMI for some sex repulsed' people!)

 

Yes, I love hugging and kissing etc, and long talks late into the night, and even sharing deep thoughts through email etc.. these are all types of intimacy. But, having his.. ahem.. down my throat (even just the idea of that as that's all I've been able to have since discovering this desire) creates a whole lot of separate pleasurable emotions that I just can't get from those other forms of intimacy (no matter how wonderful they are). I'd be legitimately quite sad now if I had a partner who didn't want me to suck his.. ahem.. at least once a day (preferably more) because I just love and desire it so much. I'd ALSO be very sad if he didn't want to have long talks with me, or game with me, or cuddle me! These are all separate types of intimacy, and taking any one of them away would make it feel like something in the relationship is lacking for me. It doesn't matter how wonderful the other forms of intimacy are, take one away and I'll still miss it like hell! That definitely includes sexy times.

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dissolved
19 hours ago, GLRDT said:

Hi! I'm gray asexual sex neutral or sex favorable. Haven't figured out that last part yet. Anyhow, I completely understand your feelings if you are dating someone who is asexual sex repulsed.  However I'm gray asexual and while I don't desire or have a need for sex, it can still feel good when it's happening, it's a fun adventure with my SO, and I love pleasing him, also I'm very sensual so I like being close to him. So it is possible for some gray asexuals to compromise. Just because they don't initiate or think about or need sex, it doesn't mean they don't want it if it comes up. I mean, it's not either or. I can lean into sex and get into the mood if my SO initiates and so in a way I can want it or I don't mind it. Don't mind it doesn't mean a firm no, or a no at all, or a I don't want it get away from me. It means, yeah I could have sex now and I want to for him and then when  it's happening, I'm like hey this is fun and it sometimes feels good for me too.  And other times when he initiates and I can't get in the mood, I always  say no in those moments. I never do anything I'm uncomfortable with and as a result, our relationship is working. A mixed relationship involves a lot of trust, communication, honesty, and taking  responsibility for  what you need and how you feel. Just wanted to throw out this other perspective for you to see if it helps!

Thank you for your perspective! 

 

Repulsion towards the act of sex aside, there's still a barrier, and it's one I no longer care to circumnavigate. I have been in relationships where both of us wanted sex. It rarely needed to spoken about... it was just something we were both aware of and happened to be enthusiastic about. So go from that to being with people who claim to want me in all sense of the word but then are meh (or even flinch) when I go to touch them... well. It's enough to make me want to become a hermit with intermittent internet access, let's put it that way. 

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dissolved
12 hours ago, Tarfeather said:

My conclusion has been that sexual desire is not equivalent to love.

I don't recall equating the two. I've only loved one or perhaps two people, desired more than a dozen and yet I've been in nine sexual relationships. In an ideal world, I would both love and desire someone with whom I'm in a relationship, but realistically I'm only ever going to desire them and care for them at best.

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ArcticFoxes
3 minutes ago, dissolved said:

Thank you for your perspective! 

 

Repulsion towards the act of sex aside, there's still a barrier, and it's one I no longer care to circumnavigate. I have been in relationships where both of us wanted sex. It rarely needed to spoken about... it was just something we were both aware of and happened to be enthusiastic about. So go from that to being with people who claim to want me in all sense of the word but then are meh (or even flinch) when I go to touch them... well. It's enough to make me want to become a hermit with intermittent internet access, let's put it that way. 

That's a shame. But understandable, I guess. I wouldn't know. Though, how different is that really to when partners express love in different ways outside of the bedroom? That's another common struggle, isn't it. Someone feels unloved because they haven't been told 'I love you' for a while, whilst the partner is doing everything they can to fix the car as an intentional act to show love. I felt unloved as a kid because my dad didn't want to have emotional conversations with me. Turns out he intentionally said 'hello' when he got home from work every day as an act to show his love. It made perfect sense to him that it was enough, whereas for me that was basic courtesy and not an act of love. A neurotypical dating someone on the autistic spectrum probably experiences similar things.

So this 'barrier' you speak of can come up anywhere with any communication, it's not sex-exclusive. I understand that you just would rather not work on that any more and would prefer to find someone that is closer to your communication and love style sexually. But there will always be things we will struggle to understand about someone else and the intention behind their words/actions.

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ArcticFoxes

On the plus side, both desiring polyamory and my husband having a fairly low libido has made my sexual husband and I pretty darn compatible.

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dissolved
18 minutes ago, ArcticFoxes said:

That's a shame. But understandable, I guess. I wouldn't know. Though, how different is that really to when partners express love in different ways outside of the bedroom? That's another common struggle, isn't it. Someone feels unloved because they haven't been told 'I love you' for a while, whilst the partner is doing everything they can to fix the car as an intentional act to show love. I felt unloved as a kid because my dad didn't want to have emotional conversations with me. Turns out he intentionally said 'hello' when he got home from work every day as an act to show his love. It made perfect sense to him that it was enough, whereas for me that was basic courtesy and not an act of love. A neurotypical dating someone on the autistic spectrum probably experiences similar things.

So this 'barrier' you speak of can come up anywhere with any communication, it's not sex-exclusive. I understand that you just would rather not work on that any more and would prefer to find someone that is closer to your communication and love style sexually. But there will always be things we will struggle to understand about someone else and the intention behind their words/actions.

It's not about love, or communication. It's about fundamental differences between people that make them incompatible. 

 

A partner not wanting to have sex with me is so far from love I don't think I can articulate it. It takes me a long time to fall for someone. Years. During that time, I sill want to sleep with them. A lot. But I never assume I'm going to love someone when we start a relationship because there really is no guarantee. It's not a simple thing. It doesn't follow this set path of meet, get to know one another, fall in love, blah blah blah. I've ended plenty of relationships where they've been in love with me and I mildly care about them. I'm not cold or heartless, but your average person isn't special enough to captivate me, to make me want to stick around for a decade on the off chance that I feel I little more someday. 

 

Relationships are transient, and most people grasp that. They don't start a new one thinking, "this is the one", each time. They know that chance are, there's going to be an incompatibility that they either work through or split up because of it. I'm more inclined to do the latter, as I'm an all or nothing kinda guy. I don't want to give someone any reason to resent me, nor me resent them.

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ArcticFoxes
12 minutes ago, dissolved said:

It's not about love, or communication. It's about fundamental differences between people that make them incompatible. 

 

A partner not wanting to have sex with me is so far from love I don't think I can articulate it. It takes me a long time to fall for someone. Years. During that time, I sill want to sleep with them. A lot. But I never assume I'm going to love someone when we start a relationship because there really is no guarantee. It's not a simple thing. It doesn't follow this set path of meet, get to know one another, fall in love, blah blah blah. I've ended plenty of relationships where they've been in love with me and I mildly care about them. I'm not cold or heartless, but your average person isn't special enough to captivate me, to make me want to stick around for a decade on the off chance that I feel I little more someday. 

 

Relationships are transient, and most people grasp that. They don't start a new one thinking, "this is the one", each time. They know that chance are, there's going to be an incompatibility that they either work through or split up because of it. I'm more inclined to do the latter, as I'm an all or nothing kinda guy. I don't want to give someone any reason to resent me, nor me resent them.

I do still think that if the insecurity exists due to a worry that you aren't being loved, it can be worked around. Though, if it's very intrinsic to your life and worldview and affects your life at the deepest level, then I will agree with your final paragraph - that we reach incompatibilities that we can either work around or will split because of it.

 

The point is I was trying to make the distinction between insecurities and personality. For example, I severely struggle in monogamous relationships, but not due to insecurity. Someone else may struggle without sex from their partner because they see it as their partner isn't loving them as much as they should (and therefore feel like the relationship is unstable, they aren't good enough for their partner, etc.). But like you said, a different person may struggle without sex in a relationship because they want/need it in their relationships, not out of insecurity of lacking love.

 

I can see I wasn't very clear in my last post, but to clarify, the reason I was talking about insecurity in the first place is you mentioned that

46 minutes ago, ArcticFoxes said:

people who claim to want me in all sense of the word but then are meh (or even flinch) when I go to touch them

sounds like an insecurity of 'they don't want sex, therefore they don't REALLY love me', even if they actually do love you with all they have.


But from your last post I can see that's not the only reason, more that you really desire sexual relations in a relationship, rather than just feeling insecure about it.

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dissolved
5 minutes ago, ArcticFoxes said:

I do still think that if the insecurity exists due to a worry that you aren't being loved, it can be worked around. Though, if it's very intrinsic to your life and worldview and affects your life at the deepest level, then I will agree with your final paragraph - that we reach incompatibilities that we can either work around or will split because of it.

I've been trying to stress that time is a factor. If I'd been with someone for ten years and they didn't want to sleep with me, I'd agree that the love had gone (assuming it had been there at all) and it was time to reassess. Insecurities aside, if someone no longer wants to continue a relationship it's a very difficult thing to fake, and it's probably going to manifest most obviously as an absent sex life for your average sexual human. 

 

But when you first begin a relationship with someone... well those first few months are called the "honeymoon phase" for a very good reason. Maybe you can fall for someone in this time, maybe. I'm skeptical. You build trust and you explore one another's bodies, but there's no love. Not yet. So this is where you might be right about general insecurities, but wrong about it being about love. If someone confessed to loving me after I'd known them for a couple of weeks there'd be a dissolved shaped hole in the door. If someone claims to want me in every sense of the word but their actions speak otherwise, again, hole in the door. 

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ArcticFoxes
4 minutes ago, dissolved said:

I've been trying to stress that time is a factor. If I'd been with someone for ten years and they didn't want to sleep with me, I'd agree that the love had gone (assuming it had been there at all) and it was time to reassess. Insecurities aside, if someone no longer wants to continue a relationship it's a very difficult thing to fake, and it's probably going to manifest most obviously as an absent sex life for your average sexual human. 

 

But when you first begin a relationship with someone... well those first few months are called the "honeymoon phase" for a very good reason. Maybe you can fall for someone in this time, maybe. I'm skeptical. You build trust and you explore one another's bodies, but there's no love. Not yet. So this is where you might be right about general insecurities, but wrong about it being about love. If someone confessed to loving me after I'd known them for a couple of weeks there'd be a dissolved shaped hole in the door. If someone claims to want me in every sense of the word but their actions speak otherwise, again, hole in the door. 

I can see where you're coming from, but again, I feel that if you end up wanting to date say, a neuro-atypical person, or an asexual person, the guidelines would need to be a bit different than if it were a sexual neurotypical person exhibiting the same behaviors. But like you said, for your average sexual human, that is definitely a fair assessment.

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Telecaster68

I'm coming to the conclusion my wife has some AS characteristics, but it's a lot more subtle with women. I think there's quite a lot of crossover with AS and asexuality.

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gaogao

@Telecaster68 sorry if I'm missing something, but what is AS? 

 

(I don't have anything to add, just following the conversation and feel like I got lost somewhere along the way)

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Philip027

It probably refers to Asperger's Syndrome but it can also refer to Autism Spectrum (Disorder) or ASD, which Asperger's conveniently falls under.

 

"Asperger's" actually is classified as ASD level-1 now under the DSM-5, essentially a mild or high-functioning form of autism -- as I found out when I was tested a few years back, they won't actually diagnose people with Asperger's specifically anymore because of this.  The person who tested me told me that had I been tested just a year or two earlier, Asperger's would have been my diagnosis.

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GLRDT
3 hours ago, dissolved said:

Thank you for your perspective! 

 

Repulsion towards the act of sex aside, there's still a barrier, and it's one I no longer care to circumnavigate. I have been in relationships where both of us wanted sex. It rarely needed to spoken about... it was just something we were both aware of and happened to be enthusiastic about. So go from that to being with people who claim to want me in all sense of the word but then are meh (or even flinch) when I go to touch them... well. It's enough to make me want to become a hermit with intermittent internet access, let's put it that way. 

Yes, agreed. You know what's best for you in your life for sure. And yeah if someone says they want you in every sense of the word, but then flinch when you touch them, I have to think they aren't being truthful with themselves or with you or both. 

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GLRDT
1 hour ago, Philip027 said:

It probably refers to Asperger's Syndrome but it can also refer to Autism Spectrum (Disorder) or ASD, which Asperger's conveniently falls under.

 

"Asperger's" actually is classified as ASD level-1 now under the DSM-5, essentially a mild or high-functioning form of autism -- as I found out when I was tested a few years back, they won't actually diagnose people with Asperger's specifically anymore because of this.  The person who tested me told me that had I been tested just a year or two earlier, Asperger's would have been my diagnosis.

So just wanted to say, basically I was just looking at your personality test you have posted below whenever you write something. We have exactly the opposite personalities. I find that so cool and would you find you super interesting just to hear your points of views on things and to learn from someone so opposite than me!

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Telecaster68
1 hour ago, gaogao said:

@Telecaster68 sorry if I'm missing something, but what is AS? 

 

(I don't have anything to add, just following the conversation and feel like I got lost somewhere along the way)

Yep, Asperger's, and as Philip says, under the current DSM it's now high functioning autism, but exactly what it's called isn't really pinned down by most of the people dealing with it.

 

I read some research that seemed to say about 30-40% of aspies are functionally asexual, and something like 70% of AS/NT marriages end up sexless. It was proper research, not blog speculation, but I can't pin it down now. It's generally thought to be linked to the combination of sensory issues and emotional processing differences. Obviously not a one-to-one thing and not in every case, but the incidence is higher than with NTs. Aspies (and I think the wider autistic spectrum) are also more likely to queer in some way (gay, gender fluid, etc).

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