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DuranDuranfan
35 minutes ago, Calligraphette_Coe said:

Lately, one of the things that makes my depression worse is that a certain group of people in this country are using my dysphoria as a reason to perpetuate the 'freedoms' to rationalize the policies that allow things like the Buffalo massacre to be swept under the Thoushts and Prayers rug while leaving rape victims with no way out. I even got it here on AVEN last week when I was slurred as being 'effeminate.'

 

There are no spaces anymore if you're not a fetus.

😡😡😡

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Sarah-Sylvia

Effeminate is a slur?

So long as someone wouldn't call me a cigarette I'd like hearing that, but I guess that's because I want to be seen as more feminine.

I know that wasn't really the subject, and sorry if things are hard around that. There's been quite a bit of shit going on and being pushed by some conservative groups, it's been upsetting me for the last while. I used to listen to some youtubers and streams that were more right-leaning because I like to understand points from different sides, but in the last months I had to unsubscribe and remove them from my feeds because it's been so bad. Including around trans stuff. Just really shitty stuff.

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Calligraphette_Coe
1 hour ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

Effeminate is a slur?

So long as someone wouldn't call me a cigarette I'd like hearing that, but I guess that's because I want to be seen as more feminine.

Effeminate is NOT equal to feminine. And that was only the start of it, the poster went on ad nauseum with character assasination. Besides, it's also invalidation because the people fond of using that turn of the knife know full well the term is never used for women-born-women, where its use would be blatantly misogynistic. Since it's used in a context that implies "You aren't a real woman", one becomes fair game for maginalization and invalidation if one stays silent and be's a 'good girl'.

 

Frankly, I'm tired of it and think, for my own mental health that I should just stop writing for AVEN.

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Sarah-Sylvia

@Calligraphette_CoeI understand now. It's used in terms of men being unmanly. And can be used in a sexist way too.

It's probably a kind of desperation that I wouldn't mind being called effeminate, like an upgrade XD, but still not good if I respect myself as a trans woman.
And on the internet.. it can sometimes be worse than irl. Sometimes I just stop going to certain kinds of thread if I'm too sensitive.. which tends to happen often enough.

Hope you'll feel better.

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@Calligraphette_Coe did you report the asshole who called you that?  Idk if the TOS covers that sort of thing tho but it can be grounds for harassment/discrimination.

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Janus the Fox

Can look into that if its reported :cake:

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Calligraphette_Coe
14 hours ago, Sarah-Sylvia said:

@Calligraphette_CoeI understand now. It's used in terms of men being unmanly. And can be used in a sexist way too.

It's probably a kind of desperation that I wouldn't mind being called effeminate, like an upgrade XD, but still not good if I respect myself as a trans woman.
And on the internet.. it can sometimes be worse than irl. Sometimes I just stop going to certain kinds of thread if I'm too sensitive.. which tends to happen often enough.

Hope you'll feel better.

Nono, I understand your reasoning, and with my situation, I completely understand your desperation. Context always holds the most truth, and in yours, it's an honest appraisal of what works for you, not a cudgel to attack another using identitly to wound.  No harm, no foul.

 

Maybe it's just been a bad few weeks. I got bad news from a medical practitioner, found my rent is going up _another_ 15% after going 15% last year, and in another ironic twist, was told I didn't pay last month's rent and was being accessed late charges, when I actually did but they screwed up.  I had to go to the bank and wait to get my banking records while getting stinkeye for holding up the line. I got a printout that showed they had already cashed the check weeks ago, and when I phoned them, they blamsed the problem on ME, saying it was MY fault for sending the check in early! I never got an apology for  the anxiety that caused, or any kind of accomodation like they always exepect when they accuse ME of something like having weeds in the flower bed out front with I never asked for. To add to the anxiety, it's Primary election time in my state, and all the transphobic Republican ads on TV, radio and the internet make one feel like Public Enemy #1.

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Calligraphette_Coe
15 hours ago, vmdraco said:

@Calligraphette_Coe did you report the asshole who called you that?  Idk if the TOS covers that sort of thing tho but it can be grounds for harassment/discrimination.

I did, and I know from bitter experience that TOS is sometimes a double edge sword, so decided that discretion is the better part of conduct and put the person on Ignore. Ayn Rand would be quite angry with me for caving to what she called The Argument from Initimidation, but then, Rand didn't have much good to say about her own gender, saying the worst possible outcome would be for a female to be elected POTUS. Even the MAGA crowd isn't that extreme- yet.

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Lately I've felt okay about my chest. Even when I'm not binding it, I feel like the clothes I'm wearing don't center the area the way that most fashion is designed to do for people who have breasts. I have a couple really secure and comfortable bras that make me feel like that part of me is contained, even when it is still clearly bosomly shaped.

 

But right now, at this very moment...well, earlier today a deeply beloved terrible Canadian intellectual tweeted his crybaby outrage over the fact that a fat model is on the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. A lot of people are shitposting about it, and it's overall a very amusing moment for people to pile onto a real piece of shit. I wondered if I still had my tankini top and if I still fit it. I dug through my dresser and found it, and put it on, with pretty much no difficulty, but...well, it has a very low cut so it's obviously designed to have a tremendous amount of cleavage, and on top of that it's probably a couple cup sizes below what any professional would advise me to wear, but in a way that would make many feminine women (and heterosexual men) feel great. However, that does not apply to me. It just feels like a reminder that I'm unlikely to ever naturally overcome what everyone expects from me. I'm always going to have to cover and bind to some extent. People would tell me I look great and encourage me to wear this, and the idea makes me want to scream at everyone and everything and ask them if they understand who I am and what I want from life.

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It's like...people like to see me in feminine things because it reinforces what they think I am and how I should be within the parameters of what we're taught to expect of everyone. When they see me in feminine things they compliment me saying I look good and should wear that more often. And I'm just yelling inside...do you know anything about me? Do you know how a person achieves any degree of happiness? It's not by obeying orders given under the guise of compliments.

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DuranDuranfan
12 hours ago, Snao Cone said:

Lately I've felt okay about my chest. Even when I'm not binding it, I feel like the clothes I'm wearing don't center the area the way that most fashion is designed to do for people who have breasts. I have a couple really secure and comfortable bras that make me feel like that part of me is contained, even when it is still clearly bosomly shaped.

 

But right now, at this very moment...well, earlier today a deeply beloved terrible Canadian intellectual tweeted his crybaby outrage over the fact that a fat model is on the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. A lot of people are shitposting about it, and it's overall a very amusing moment for people to pile onto a real piece of shit. I wondered if I still had my tankini top and if I still fit it. I dug through my dresser and found it, and put it on, with pretty much no difficulty, but...well, it has a very low cut so it's obviously designed to have a tremendous amount of cleavage, and on top of that it's probably a couple cup sizes below what any professional would advise me to wear, but in a way that would make many feminine women (and heterosexual men) feel great. However, that does not apply to me. It just feels like a reminder that I'm unlikely to ever naturally overcome what everyone expects from me. I'm always going to have to cover and bind to some extent. People would tell me I look great and encourage me to wear this, and the idea makes me want to scream at everyone and everything and ask them if they understand who I am and what I want from life.

I fired back at him on Twitter saying he should try being on the front cover in a Speedo. 

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3 minutes ago, DuranDuranfan said:

I fired back at him on Twitter saying he should try being on the front cover in a Speedo. 

Maybe that's what drove him over the edge to the point of talking about thinking about quitting twitter, or at least getting his staff to change his password so he couldn't just log on unless he really wanted to, since Twitter is full of mean people who talk of speedos and send him images of a pig pooping onto its own massive balls. ☹️

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DuranDuranfan
2 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

Maybe that's what drove him over the edge to the point of talking about thinking about quitting twitter, or at least getting his staff to change his password so he couldn't just log on unless he really wanted to, since Twitter is full of mean people who talk of speedos and send him images of a pig pooping onto its own massive balls. ☹️

Well unfortunately he’s still there on Twitter because it was on Twitter where he complained about the model on the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition.

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Calligraphette_Coe
On 5/15/2022 at 7:17 PM, Janus the Fox said:

Can look into that if its reported :cake:

Sorry for the late reply-- more landlord issues.  They're going to invade my apartment again with less than 24 hours legal notice, so I had to pack up all my feminine things. In this state, gender identity is not a protected class, and they could kick me out of they don't like it.

 

IDK, Janus, it's like the landlord thing, the people who don't follow the rules usually seem to get away with it, and/or one creates a more hateful enemy. Through stubbornenss, I finally learned that like Joshua in War Games, "Interesting game-- the only way to win is not to play."

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  • 2 weeks later...
WobblyWallaby

Maybe this isn't the right place but I need advice.  My boyfriend is trans.  We have this conversation at least once a month where he feels like less of a man. Each time I make him tell me his definition of a man. In his mind penis=male. I tell him each time he is a man in my eyes. That I love him for him not his genitalia. He could be built like a horse or like a Ken doll and I'd love him either way. It doesn't seem to sink in though. Is it part of his dysmorphia? Am I saying the right thing? I want him to see himself how I see him ( easier said than done) but I don't know if I'm going about it the right way.

Btw. We've talked about this and he says what I say helps but... I'm still worried 

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Sarah-Sylvia

@WobblyWallabyIt's very great and sweet that you feel like this about your boyfriend. I'm sure what you say does help, it's just trans people can have dysmorphia like that, though it's usually more too. life-time feelings that have built. It can be lots of things, including internalized conditioning or even transphobia that somehow makes its way there. For some or a lot of us those feelings can be a recurring struggle. Sometimes some things help, but when some negativities come in it can trigger them more or our insecurities around it. I think you're a good part of his life amongst all that. Your love and view of him surely helps a lot, it's just it goes beyond that, into his own struggles and deep seeted feelings he's dealing with. Sometimes you can only accompany, and be there, and listen, and do what you can.

 

He is how he is, and his body's parts don't define who he is inside. How much or not he can feel and know that.. knowing it mentally doesn't always help all the feelings that can be around it, so if there's anything I can think to say is that being understanding of that struggle (and path on the way to better) is probably all you can do more.

 

🌈

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I honestly do like certain styles of women's clothing, and I wouldn't mind having more of it in my wardrobe... but why does all of the "stylish" women's clothing have to be so uncomfortable to wear? Maybe I'm just unlucky and/or too sensitive to the way it feels on my body, but I find it so hard to find a stylish women's top that completely covers my stomach and doesn't have cleavage or seams in weird places. And I've completely sworn off women's pants for as long as I live, because the crotches are always so tight, like I'm giving myself a wedgie every time I sit down. (Not to mention that the pockets in women's pants are usually shallow and/or nonexistent, or worse- they have "fake pockets" that look real, but aren't. What even is the point of those?!)

 

Are you sure I have the type of body that these clothes were made for...?

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29 minutes ago, Barbio said:

I honestly do like certain styles of women's clothing, and I wouldn't mind having more of it in my wardrobe... but why does all of the "stylish" women's clothing have to be so uncomfortable to wear? Maybe I'm just unlucky and/or too sensitive to the way it feels on my body, but I find it so hard to find a stylish women's top that completely covers my stomach and doesn't have cleavage or seams in weird places. And I've completely sworn off women's pants for as long as I live, because the crotches are always so tight, like I'm giving myself a wedgie every time I sit down. (Not to mention that the pockets in women's pants are usually shallow and/or nonexistent, or worse- they have "fake pockets" that look real, but aren't. What even is the point of those?!)

 

Are you sure I have the type of body that these clothes were made for...?

Since women's clothing is designed to accentuate features but is also mass produced, the end products are much more likely to be a bit off in what they cover. For a while I found it very hard to get a women's top with a neckline that didn't expose most of my cleavage. My bust appears to be higher up my body than what those shirts were designed for. I also have a long torso and short legs, so most women's tops are too short and pretty much all men's pants are too long. 

 

For women's clothing at least, I think it's intentional body shaming to make them self-conscious. Maybe this means they'll have to buy more clothes to add layers that hide what the base shirts don't cover. Maybe it's coordinated with the diet industry, which fuels more clothes shopping due to fluctuating sizes. Small/fake pockets are intentionally designed that way so women have to buy purses as well. It's real BS. 

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Nellie Mer
1 hour ago, Snao Cone said:

Since women's clothing is designed to accentuate features but is also mass produced, the end products are much more likely to be a bit off in what they cover. For a while I found it very hard to get a women's top with a neckline that didn't expose most of my cleavage. My bust appears to be higher up my body than what those shirts were designed for. I also have a long torso and short legs, so most women's tops are too short and pretty much all men's pants are too long. 

 

For women's clothing at least, I think it's intentional body shaming to make them self-conscious. Maybe this means they'll have to buy more clothes to add layers that hide what the base shirts don't cover. Maybe it's coordinated with the diet industry, which fuels more clothes shopping due to fluctuating sizes. Small/fake pockets are intentionally designed that way so women have to buy purses as well. It's real BS. 

For me it's a bit on the contrary.
For a male I have a narrow wait compared to hips, so men's trousers will usually sit, and look, like a sack tied in the waist. Women's pants, especially high-waisted, when fit in the waist will give room over the hip-area.
As Snao says; women's clothing are designed to accentuate features, and those features does not include bulges from keys or wallets. The fake back pockets I think just are there to look "manly" and give an interruption on the back, but I would have preferred to be able to put my passage card there.

Tops are problematic, there are long tees without to large/deep neckline. Sleeve-length for blouses and shirts are a catastrophe, "long" sleeves looks outgrown and the (in my opinion) ridiculous 3/4 is just that.

The fashion style, targeted to mostly young women, is a way to exploit the insecurity of people. That includes diet, fashion, lifestyle and its mass-consumption of everything.

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nazokashii
13 hours ago, Barbio said:

(Not to mention that the pockets in women's pants are usually shallow and/or nonexistent, or worse- they have "fake pockets" that look real, but aren't. What even is the point of those?!)

Stumbled upon this article not too long ago, which both highlights the current situation and gives some background on how it got to this point: https://pudding.cool/2018/08/pockets/

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20 hours ago, nazokashii said:

Stumbled upon this article not too long ago, which both highlights the current situation and gives some background on how it got to this point: https://pudding.cool/2018/08/pockets/

Thanks for sharing! I've never heard of that site, but yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if the reasoning is something like that. Patriarchy is weird.

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Sarah-Sylvia

It pisses me off how many people are with just what's all going on in the 'culture war', trans people being disregarded. And there isn't a lot of proper talk around the points at issue.


Identity is about 'identifying' something inside. putting so much attention on what's on the outside for who someone is is just weird.
 

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DarkStormyKnight

It's really scary, I'm based in the US and trans people have to fight for their lives over here.

On another note, my partner is getting top surgery on Monday, I've done digging already about how to best support him during this time but if anyone else here has other tips to add please do let me know. :) 

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A friend in my local enby group last night asked if it was okay if she identified as both transfemme and nonbinary, and she got an emphatic yes from the whole group and looked so happy after. She's still very slowly working towards the transfemme part and I'm thrilled to see her making those steps and being reaffirming the whole time. It's just heartwarming, 

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And now a minor thing to rant about, I've heard a few times in a couple different podcasts that some cis people get the whole concept incredibly backwards. Like if they're talking about pregnancy or abortion or whatever, they try to be inclusive by saying "women and people who identify as female". 🙄 Just say "people who can get pregnant" or something like that. 

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Lysandre, the Star-Crossed

6jersg.jpg

 

 

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anightlikethis

Why can't people understand the separation of androgyne as a gender identity vs presenting androgynously? I know androgynes who present "feminine", "masculine", and anything in between. I get so sick of seeing posts, not necessarily here, that fail to recognize androgyne as a gender, and say that it's only a presentation, or that all people who identify as androgynes have to present androgynously. People can wear wtf they want.

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Sarah-Sylvia
49 minutes ago, anightlikethis said:

Why can't people understand the separation of androgyne as a gender identity vs presenting androgynously? I know androgynes who present "feminine", "masculine", and anything in between. I get so sick of seeing posts, not necessarily here, that fail to recognize androgyne as a gender, and say that it's only a presentation, or that all people who identify as androgynes have to present androgynously. People can wear wtf they want.

It was a prensentation for a long time, so it as a gender identity isn't as much known about.
But yeah, there's a lot of stuff people don't get or understand around gender identities in general. Awareness could use a lot more progress still.

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Sometimes there's that feeling that I really don't want any genitals, at all.

Just like, I'd be better off having the bare necessities to do my business in the bathroom and that's just about it

 

Idk really weird but like I don't want male parts but keeping my female parts is iffy too

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Lysandre, the Star-Crossed

I have always had a weird time with dysphoria, because it's predominant the byproduct of a social construct I don't buy into but have to live with.

 

More concrete example...

I don't see my body, voice, social roles, clothing choices, mannerisms, or anything else as masculine. Other people have constructed a mental image of masculinity that they project onto me because of one or more of these things. I want my voice softer and higher, my body cues minimized, my wardrobe changed, and the like because of how other people perceive them to be gendered. If people stopped seeing any of this as gendered I'd no longer want to change it (for the most part), because the association and implications that come with it would go away. I'd do exactly what I wanted, but I'd be free to not feel like I have to go above and beyond to put on a show for people so that they don't put me into a series of boxes I don't feel comfortable in.

 

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