Trans Musings & Rantings

[nerdperson777]

On 2/18/2018 at 1:06 AM, Emery. said:

I really wonder if it's because of stereotypes about engineering (that especially in physics, math and computer science don't hold true), a real difference between men and women in math talent, or a preference to work with people to machines on the part of women (medicine is bio and chem)? Or simply tradition? Although in bio and chem classes I met there weren't many girls either. Or maybe we should look at this the other way round: why do guys choose math and engineering related degrees when they could do equally well having, say, a degree in law?

I don't think it's really that guys choose STEM.  They're allowed to do anything they want in this patriarchal society.  I do think stereotypes do go into play at least a little.  There's the notion that girls are more sociable so they should do talking jobs.  Then after that, they get discouraged from STEM fields.  It's really a double effect there.

[Emery.]

11 minutes ago, nerdperson777 said:

Then after that, they get discouraged from STEM fields

Maybe I'm an oddball, but I can't remember that happen. Maybe it's just my family and other families reinforce stereotypes more. There are many female scientists in my family. But I dunno... I have always been a clear case of a science person. I was gifted in math and humanities were... hard for me. Nobody ever discouraged me from science because I'm a girl. I don't recall. At school it certainly didn't happen. Several people suggested engineering would be a bad idea because it's rough and I'm sensitive, which I think they were right. I did back off from the rougher end of things. But certainly not from science. The only discouragement was peer pressure  all the girls either took bio-chem or humanities. All. 

[nerdperson777]

10 hours ago, Emery. said:

Maybe I'm an oddball, but I can't remember that happen. Maybe it's just my family and other families reinforce stereotypes more. There are many female scientists in my family. But I dunno... I have always been a clear case of a science person. I was gifted in math and humanities were... hard for me. Nobody ever discouraged me from science because I'm a girl. I don't recall. At school it certainly didn't happen. Several people suggested engineering would be a bad idea because it's rough and I'm sensitive, which I think they were right. I did back off from the rougher end of things. But certainly not from science. The only discouragement was peer pressure  all the girls either took bio-chem or humanities. All. 

It's just what I heard mostly.  My mom's accounting degree is considered a BS degree.  She just wanted me to be good at everything.  She raised me pretty gender neutral, in terms of my academics and clothing attire, I guess.  Dad was the one that was more of "girls do this, boys do that".  I don't think mom told me not to do stuff purely based on gender, maybe just if something requires physical effort.  I just wanted to lift some stuff to feel confident and masculine sometimes.  Usually that tends to be a bag of dog food or rice.  Then she would tell me "don't be a hero".  She was always afraid of me hurting myself accidentally.  Don't open crab shells by biting it or you could chip your teeth.  Don't carry that bag of dog food or you'll hurt your back.  This is all coming from my twig of a mom who complains about a little bit of physical lifting.  During my senior year of high school, I was visiting my aunt and it just happened that her friend was there.  (They were both women engineers and according to my dad, the friend was at the top of his class.)  Upon hearing that I wanted to go into engineering, her first comment was that engineering is very hard.  Later mom told me that she could've been a little more encouraging than that, but I guess she's quirky like that.  Ironically, peer pressure played no part in it.  I just wanted to do this popular stable major that could give me success.  And I liked building computers, so it totally works, right?  Nope.  I hated all those laws and theories.

[vmdraco]

It's that time of year again, to go outside in shorts and let everyone over 40 stare at my legs in horror

[Mezzo Forte]

On 2/19/2018 at 4:37 AM, Emery. said:

Maybe I'm an oddball, but I can't remember that happen. Maybe it's just my family and other families reinforce stereotypes more. There are many female scientists in my family. But I dunno... I have always been a clear case of a science person. I was gifted in math and humanities were... hard for me. Nobody ever discouraged me from science because I'm a girl. I don't recall. At school it certainly didn't happen. Several people suggested engineering would be a bad idea because it's rough and I'm sensitive, which I think they were right. I did back off from the rougher end of things. But certainly not from science. The only discouragement was peer pressure  all the girls either took bio-chem or humanities. All.

If anything, I remember getting a lot of commentary of people wanting me to be representation for the whole "Women in STEM" thing in part because I did well in math and was considering pursuing different biological sciences before music took over my life. Of course, then came the "inspirational woman percussionist" talk. I think the more vocal groups were the ones who were dead set on representation. All the biases against a female-perceived person that I might have experienced were likely tacit cues that I was too oblivious to pick up on

 

3 hours ago, vmdraco said:

It's that time of year again, to go outside in shorts and let everyone over 40 stare at my legs in horror

I guess people did a good job at hiding their facial expressions when I stopped giving a shit about hiding my hairy legs. Apparently, some people starting assuming I was a hardcore lesbian, but I started feeling okay with showing my leg hair not long before I started transitioning, so I didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff for long.

[Emery.]

There was this one teacher who thought I must be bad at physics, because I'm a girl, but this was just funny  I was the best in my class. Later during the course, he asked me to solve problems when he couldn't  

 

15 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

the whole "Women in STEM"

The more I think about it, the less I understand what that kind of grouping people into camps is supposed to achieve. Women in STEM share just being able to carry a child... most of them, because not all. Women are a diverse bunch. Just like any other social group based on external characteristics. And just like men. 

[nerdperson777]

46 minutes ago, Mezzo Forte said:

If anything, I remember getting a lot of commentary of people wanting me to be representation for the whole "Women in STEM" thing in part because I did well in math and was considering pursuing different biological sciences before music took over my life. Of course, then came the "inspirational woman percussionist" talk. I think the more vocal groups were the ones who were dead set on representation. All the biases against a female-perceived person that I might have experienced were likely tacit cues that I was too oblivious to pick up on

 

I guess people did a good job at hiding their facial expressions when I stopped giving a shit about hiding my hairy legs. Apparently, some people starting assuming I was a hardcore lesbian, but I started feeling okay with showing my leg hair not long before I started transitioning, so I didn't have to worry about that kind of stuff for long.

Interestingly, the genius at my high school did the other route.  He was the brightest student in the school, in my opinion.  He was great at every class he took.  He should have A+ in everything.  In AP Physics, since the topic was so hard, only an 80% was needed to get an A.  While everyone was struggling to get 50% on exams, he gets an actual A.  95%.  And he's frustrated that he didn't get the 97% for an A+.  Other than being an academic prodigy, he was a talented violinist.  He was part of the San Francisco Youth Orchestra, although as a second violinist.  When I saw him do a solo at school, he was ultra expressive, throwing his upper body everywhere.  I compared him to Lang Lang, but with a violin.  I heard during senior year that he didn't really know what he wanted to do as a career, and that he had to choose between Stanford and Harvard.  He did some biology research at Stanford for a competition he entered so if he went there, the staff would know him already.  He ultimately decided on Harvard.  I think he went into biology, probably a reason being that you can't get far in music as "only" a second violinist.

 

I had no visible hair.  *shrugs*

 

7 minutes ago, Emery. said:

There was this one teacher who thought I must be bad at physics, because I'm a girl, but this was just funny  I was the best in my class. Later during the course, he asked me to solve problems when he couldn't  

 

The more I think about it, the less I understand what that kind of grouping people into camps is supposed to achieve. Women in STEM share just being able to carry a child... most of them, because not all. Women are a diverse bunch. Just like any other social group based on external characteristics. And just like men. 

I think you should note cis women before a trans girl gets offended.

[Emery.]

To me a trans woman is just a woman who can't carry. Because what is being male/female if not about who carries? In the very primary sense. 

[Lirpaderp]

8 hours ago, Mezzo Forte said:

If anything, I remember getting a lot of commentary of people wanting me to be representation for the whole "Women in STEM" thing

This drives me nuts! There's a scholarship for girls in stem and people keep trying to get me to apply. I need money but I'm not a girl so I'm not doing it. People are so proud of me as a "girl" in engineering and I hate it. They wondered how I had the guts to go to robotics club as the only female. They kept telling me how brave I am for going into stem and how well I can represent. I keep getting emails about the women in engineering program but I'm never going to join. I fit the stereotype pretty well for the nerdy engineering boy, except my passion for music. They were so proud that I followed my interests and went into stem, but I know it's only because they think I'm a girl.

[Mezzo Forte]

25 minutes ago, Lirpaderp said:

This drives me nuts! There's a scholarship for girls in stem and people keep trying to get me to apply. I need money but I'm not a girl so I'm not doing it. People are so proud of me as a "girl" in engineering and I hate it. They wondered how I had the guts to go to robotics club as the only female. They kept telling me how brave I am for going into stem and how well I can represent. I keep getting emails about the women in engineering program but I'm never going to join. I fit the stereotype pretty well for the nerdy engineering boy, except my passion for music. They were so proud that I followed my interests and went into stem, but I know it's only because they think I'm a girl.

Yeah, those scholarships are quite uncomfortable to navigate. I remember that I thought my professor had nominated me for a women's scholarship in the time between me starting HRT and coming out to him, and I just about had a stroke trying to figure out the right thing to do. (Turned out the scholarship had "women" in the title, but was not a gender-exclusive scholarship, but that didn't undo the conflicted emotions leading up to that discovery. Didn't win that scholarship either.)

[Emery.]

I browsed through College Confidential lately and oh man! There is a craze with the whole representation thing. When I was in the UK, I saw that too. Here, where I live, it hasn't reached this place yet. Besides, the country isn't ethnically/racially/ religiously/culturally diverse and I can't say we have a large problem with women's discrimination or 1950s gender roles. I've seen the new Star Wars recently and the "representation" in the film seems a lot more diverse than in the old parts, so I had a conversation about it with my dad... All in all I think this is a good thing in films, and it adds realism too, but with real people, when they stop looking at your achievements and who you are as a person, and paradoxically pay more attention to what you are in the name of equality... this is when it gets crazy.

 

2 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

They wondered how I had the guts to go to robotics club as the only female. 

So what even if you were the only female? I think too much value is put in those external divisions. And if you were the only Muslim, would they cheer you too? That's crazy. Because it's So Hard being around Christians and atheists?

[Lonemathsytoothbrushthief]

@Emery.  Honestly though I have my eye out for discrimination in my department now, and really do think it was fairly evident at the research seminar I took part in. One of the staff members is a Chinese doctor(I think that's her title) who researches structures at the nanotechnology level for electronics, and the talk she gave at the seminar really interested me, but I was super pissed at this research and enterprise group guy who sat further up than me because he. Just. Would. Not. Sit. Still. For. It. He had no problem listening to everyone else speaking but couldn't stop shifting in his seat, scratching his head, whatever for her talk specifically. I honestly think for certain people with enough ingrained taught biases, they just can't handle seeing people from marginalised groups speak from positions of authority, and as antiauthoritarian as I am, in science that shit is important. And then later on the supervisor of my friend who's a final year student overran by 10 minutes into the next talk, meaning my friend was also on edge when it came round to her. Tbh I think they should make scholarships that are just for non cis-men, or non men, and have more specific ones for women of colour, trans women/femmes, etc I'm not really sure. I still feel confused by this stuff since I've left my old department where they had a women in information security and the domain of mathematics(WISDOM-the name rocks xD) postgrad/research group, and I kind of feel comfortable with being a girl some days and definitely not a girl other days now.

 

On 2/17/2018 at 9:26 PM, ChillaKilla said:

Math used to be “women’s work” actually. Watch the movie Hidden Figures, it’s amazing! Also, Vikings apparently used to make women handle math (finances, taxes, etc) because they believed it was sorcery  

1) I loved that movie, and 2) ahaha, sorcery eh?

[Emery.]

3 hours ago, Lonemathsytoothbrushthief said:

because he. Just. Would. Not. Sit. Still. For. It. He had no problem listening to everyone else speaking but couldn't stop shifting in his seat, scratching his head, whatever for her talk specifically

Gawd. Moron. But you know what? I'm really surprised this happens in science, or any more intellectual environment, because if he can't handle something like that, how can he produce unbiased, meritorical, credible research? If he is so... off merit. But you know what. I think I saw something like this happen too in local institutions, so the people don't have to be overwhelmingly effective at what they do, that would make sense then. 

 

I also had classmates not want to talk to me, because I'm a girl, but later on it turned out they don't understand a thing. Generally speaking. The coursework. The world. The making of sense in their brains was a bit... impaired. Talking with them was very uninteresting anyway. Exactly because they were stuck at the external, superficial level. All they had to say was at meme level. And that did corralate strongly with poor academic results. 

 

3 hours ago, Lonemathsytoothbrushthief said:

they had a women in information security and the domain of mathematics(WISDOM-the name rocks xD)

Aha, the name is so cool  

 

14 hours ago, nerdperson777 said:

He did some biology research at Stanford for a competition he entered so if he went there, the staff would know him already. 

Oh, I wish I had such opportunities. I wish I was done with undergrad classes as well. 

[Light02]

On 20.02.2018 г. at 8:22 PM, vmdraco said:

It's that time of year again, to go outside in shorts and let everyone over 40 stare at my legs in horror

I never shave my legs and I wish I had the confidence to just walk around in shorts (or sometimes dresses) like that in the summer but I literally get panic attacks whenever I think about it. I definitely think I'm going to get harassed for it on the street and even if I don't I'd die just imagining what people are thinking about me (I have an anxiety disorder). I'm very hairy. My dad used to harass me about shaving my legs all the time to the point where he would make me cry. I've also had multiple people ask me why I don't shave my arms and tell me how ugly that is. I also constantly hear cis women talking about how ugly and disgusting it is when women don't shave their legs. But I really wish I was as confident as you and just didn't give a shit.

[999papercranes]

56 minutes ago, Light02 said:

I've also had multiple people ask me why I don't shave my arms and tell me how ugly that is. 

Wait, people shave their arms?  

Nobody I know does that. Maybe it’s a regional thing?

[butterflydreams]

32 minutes ago, 999papercranes said:

Wait, people shave their arms?  

Nobody I know does that. Maybe it’s a regional thing?

Ditto, I've never seen most people do this. Though god knows some people could've used it lol

[nerdperson777]

18 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

This drives me nuts! There's a scholarship for girls in stem and people keep trying to get me to apply. I need money but I'm not a girl so I'm not doing it. People are so proud of me as a "girl" in engineering and I hate it. They wondered how I had the guts to go to robotics club as the only female. They kept telling me how brave I am for going into stem and how well I can represent. I keep getting emails about the women in engineering program but I'm never going to join. I fit the stereotype pretty well for the nerdy engineering boy, except my passion for music. They were so proud that I followed my interests and went into stem, but I know it's only because they think I'm a girl.

I was the only "female" in robotics club.  I originally thought to join my school's SWE (Society of Women Engineers) but I don't think I went back after the first meeting.  I don't think I went with the idea that I really wanted to join, but rather, my mom's advice to join organizations for networking and job opportunities.  I didn't get anywhere with IEEE either.  Maybe that was a sign that I wasn't a girl, and that I wasn't meant to be an engineer.

[SeeYa]

2 hours ago, 999papercranes said:

Wait, people shave their arms?  

Nobody I know does that. Maybe it’s a regional thing?

I think it depends mostly on the person. Arm hairs dont tend to be as thick or dark as legs hairs but for some people they are quite.... noticable.... so they may feel the need to shave...

[:)(:]

13 minutes ago, StomachGod said:

Arm hairs dont tend to be as thick or dark

I am Might be alone on this but I always thought arm hairs were cool (on both men and women ) because they are so downy and tiny. I feel that also they give the arm more shape which has a cool vibe. 

[vmdraco]

4 hours ago, Light02 said:

I never shave my legs and I wish I had the confidence to just walk around in shorts (or sometimes dresses) like that in the summer but I literally get panic attacks whenever I think about it. I definitely think I'm going to get harassed for it on the street and even if I don't I'd die just imagining what people are thinking about me (I have an anxiety disorder). I'm very hairy. My dad used to harass me about shaving my legs all the time to the point where he would make me cry. I've also had multiple people ask me why I don't shave my arms and tell me how ugly that is. I also constantly hear cis women talking about how ugly and disgusting it is when women don't shave their legs. But I really wish I was as confident as you and just didn't give a shit.

Honestly dude, if it makes you the most comfortable then just do it.  I know the fear of the being harassed or made fun of is something hard to get over, but once I took that chance I noticed how no one cared, and my fears weren't realized.  You'd be shocked how little people notice or care, though, they're in their own little bubble of hell.  It might depend on where you're from.  Northeast USA seems to not care   

 

One way I got over it is to laugh at it.  "Oh wow some grandma stares at me as though I grew two heads because my legs are fuzzy, who shat in her cereal this morning?"  That kind of thing.  I think it's absurd how judgey people look when you don't shave, as if AFAB folk are born hairless or something.  If someone does say something to me (hasn't happened so far), then I'll just look at them the way they look at me and wonder what's wrong with them.  You don't need a cat when you can PET YOURSELF!!!!

[nerdperson777]

14 minutes ago, vmdraco said:

I think it's absurd how judgey people look when you don't shave, as if AFAB folk are born hairless or something.  If someone does say something to me (hasn't happened so far), then I'll just look at them the way they look at me and wonder what's wrong with them.  You don't need a cat when you can PET YOURSELF!!!!

I think my cousin gets that kind of thing from her boyfriend.  They have been living together for probably 2 years now.  She told me that he genuinely thinks that girls should be hairless.  He freaked out when he saw that she had hair on her legs and armpits and told her to shave it off.  Don't know what world he thinks he's in to think that girls are all hairless.

 

There's this funny thing my friend posted, it's more like making fun of whiny cis men than trans-related.  CW for pads and tampons I suppose?

She said that cis guys don't like it when she takes out a pad to go to the bathroom when they can adjust their dicks obviously while manspreading.  Then started a comment wall of making fun of cis guys avoiding bleeding hygiene products.  One person said that they're amused by the guys who are afraid to pick up a clean box of tampons.  Then if tampons were renamed "bulletwound-grade bleeding plugs", would they stop being afraid?  I said that I'm imagining a shooting where the only blood absorption item is a pad and the cis guy bleeds out faster, stressing over the idea of using a pad.

[SeeYa]

3 hours ago, :)(: said:

I am Might be alone on this but I always thought arm hairs were cool (on both men and women ) because they are so downy and tiny. I feel that also they give the arm more shape which has a cool vibe. 

Again, depends on the person. My arm hairs are thick, dark, coarse, and over an inch long.... I hope someone will forgive me for being slightly sensitive about it... I don't see it as a good thing to look like a crossbred between man and gorilla... >.>

[:)(:]

22 minutes ago, StomachGod said:

over an inch long..

You measured 😆😊

[SeeYa]

1 minute ago, :)(: said:

You measured 😆😊

Sadly... yes... OTL

[Lirpaderp]

7 hours ago, Light02 said:

I never shave my legs and I wish I had the confidence to just walk around in shorts (or sometimes dresses) like that in the summer but I literally get panic attacks whenever I think about it. I definitely think I'm going to get harassed for it on the street and even if I don't I'd die just imagining what people are thinking about me (I have an anxiety disorder). I'm very hairy. My dad used to harass me about shaving my legs all the time to the point where he would make me cry. I've also had multiple people ask me why I don't shave my arms and tell me how ugly that is. I also constantly hear cis women talking about how ugly and disgusting it is when women don't shave their legs. But I really wish I was as confident as you and just didn't give a shit.

I get a lot of shit about it. I was teased so much in elementary school for having hairy armpits. Kids are brutal. Going through puberty early was the worst. I had my first period at age 9 and was devastated. later when I got leg hair I was told by many people that I should shave it. Puberty ruins everything.

 

One day I was walking home from middle school and overheard someone say if you don't know someone's gender just look at the hair on their legs. Coincidentally that's around when I gave up on shaving.

 

My mom really wants me to shave my armpits. She thinks it's gross but I never heard her ask my brother to shave his pits. More recently she finally gave up getting me to shave my legs. But I'm still extremely self conscious about all of it. It's been ingrained in me that my body hair is wrong and I'm trying to get over it. Some of the older extended family members commented on my body hair as well.

[nerdperson777]

2 hours ago, Lirpaderp said:

I get a lot of shit about it. I was teased so much in elementary school for having hairy armpits. Kids are brutal. Going through puberty early was the worst. I had my first period at age 9 and was devastated. later when I got leg hair I was told by many people that I should shave it. Puberty ruins everything.

 

One day I was walking home from middle school and overheard someone say if you don't know someone's gender just look at the hair on their legs. Coincidentally that's around when I gave up on shaving.

 

My mom really wants me to shave my armpits. She thinks it's gross but I never heard her ask my brother to shave his pits. More recently she finally gave up getting me to shave my legs. But I'm still extremely self conscious about all of it. It's been ingrained in me that my body hair is wrong and I'm trying to get over it. Some of the older extended family members commented on my body hair as well.

9 is really early.  Is it genetic to start that early?  I didn't get anything until the week after my 13th birthday.

 

The darkest hair I have is probably in my armpits other than one more obvious area.  I'm still in the mentality where I want to wear sleeveless tanks but don't want to shave my armpits, so I get self-conscious about that.  Another idea that's been in my head is that, even after top surgery, would I actually be as comfortable with it as before puberty?  I feel like I don't remember the feeling I had before.  I liked to be like Tarzan and beat my chest and walk around without a shirt, but that was back when I was 8?  Will I ever be comfortable enough to go around shirtless after surgery?  I would fix the dysphoria of having boobs, but will I re-learn the good shirtless feeling?  It's kind of boggling me atm.

[999papercranes]

On the topic of body hair, I stopped shaving around early fall of last year while my parents and I were still biking after RAGBRAI. I remember because I was sitting in the truck with my bike shorts on and my mom took a quizzical look at my fluffy legs but didn’t say anything 

This summer will be the first one where I’ll be completely unshaven, and while I’m a bit nervous to see the looks I’ll probably get I also feel relieved because I just don’t care anymore about sacrificing my comfort for the sake of somebody else’s sexism.

[Light02]

I'm definitely going to try and not worry about it during the summer. My mom sometimes doesn't shave her legs so maybe we can both go out like that for support lol.

 

And yeah, where I'm from women are "supposed to" shave their arms. 

[SkyWorld]

I had my first period when I was 9 as well. It really sucked how I started puberty earlier than most.

 

I was bullied at elementary school for my hairy arms and legs. That had made me shave them, but I hated shaving so much and it took me forever! I have a lot of hair and it’s thick and dark, so for years and to this day I hide my legs and armpits. I used to for my arms, but it would get way too hot for me to hide them and would just have to “suck it up”. I can’t even go swimming out of fear of people making fun of me for my leg hair. I wish it was more socially acceptable. But I feel like one of the things to look forward to in my transition and be more comfortable with my body, I can be out in public and no longer fear people making fun of me. 

 

My grandma used to get on my case about not shaving my armpit hair. I didn’t really care. Sometimes I do shave it because I genuinely want to, but only after it reached a certain length and too long for me to bear.

[daveb]

I think people should shave or not shave according to their own preferences. I prefer to shave my legs and underarms. Fortunately I have fine fair hair on my arms and almost no chest hair - I do keep my arm hair trimmed with a trimmer and "depth gauge". One person I know said where she lives (mountain resort area) a lot of women don't shave their legs and some guys do (mostly because they are cyclists), so it's less of a gender thing there.