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groovygrievy

How do you approach sex?

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groovygrievy

Hello

I'm in my first relationship and I'm the asexual whereas my bf is the sexual one. The most we have done is kissed we haven't even cuddled yet (we're long distance at the moment). For the first 6 months we didn't do much I guess I must have been giving off odd vibes. In those 6 months he did learn that I was asexual and sexually incredibly inexperienced. Each time he says it's okay if we never have sex but more and more he has been telling me of the sexual activities he would like to explore with me. 

 

For other asexuals how did you go about talking about sex? How do you set limits without feeling scared that you are in the wrong? And same for those of you who are sexual, simply how have you found to navigate the topic and not so much the act. 

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.Lia
  1. You are never, ever, in the wrong for setting your limits and sticking to them. Someone who tries to make you feel bad about your limits is in the wrong. Always.
  2. You first have to decide what your limits are. Limits can change. For instance, you can say "for now, I only want to touch over our clothes". And in a month or 5 or whenever, you might say, "I'm okay exploring underneath clothing".
  3. You also might think the limit is fluid, and it turns out that it's not. That's okay.
  4. You have to decide your hard limits, that are unlikely to ever change. For me, it's oral sex performed on me (TMI, sorry). Don't want it, don't try it, don't expect it, because I don't like it. Period.
  5. Be 100% honest, even if that is uncomfortable. 
  6. Talking might not be your thing. Writing down your limits might be helpful, for example.
  7. Ask your partner about his/her limits. Even though they're sexual, they will have limits, even if they haven't come across them yet.
  8. It is 100% always okay to stop in the middle of anything you're doing, even if your partner is well within your set limits. 
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groovygrievy
11 minutes ago, .Lia said:
  1. You are never, ever, in the wrong for setting your limits and sticking to them. Someone who tries to make you feel bad about your limits is in the wrong. Always.
  2. You first have to decide what your limits are. Limits can change. For instance, you can say "for now, I only want to touch over our clothes". And in a month or 5 or whenever, you might say, "I'm okay exploring underneath clothing".
  3. You also might think the limit is fluid, and it turns out that it's not. That's okay.
  4. You have to decide your hard limits, that are unlikely to ever change. For me, it's oral sex performed on me (TMI, sorry). Don't want it, don't try it, don't expect it, because I don't like it. Period.
  5. Be 100% honest, even if that is uncomfortable. 
  6. Talking might not be your thing. Writing down your limits might be helpful, for example.
  7. Ask your partner about his/her limits. Even though they're sexual, they will have limits, even if they haven't come across them yet.
  8. It is 100% always okay to stop in the middle of anything you're doing, even if your partner is well within your set limits. 

He's not making me feel bad about them, I think I'm making me feel bad about them probably due to the whole "if you actually love him then you should want to do the whole blah di blah". I agree with you oral sex sounds awful. There is no way to glamorise it, even if they paid me millions of pounds. 

 

I might try to write it down and give it to him. As when ever I think about talking to him about it I feel weak and begin to cry and I hate crying in front of people. 

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.Lia
1 minute ago, groovygrievy said:

He's not making me feel bad about them, I think I'm making me feel bad about them probably due to the whole "if you actually love him then you should want to do the whole blah di blah". I agree with you oral sex sounds awful. There is no way to glamorise it, even if they paid me millions of pounds. 

 

I might try to write it down and give it to him. As when ever I think about talking to him about it I feel weak and begin to cry and I hate crying in front of people. 

Sex isn't about "if you love him/her, you'll do this", it's about "I love him/her, and I want to do this". If the "want" isn't there, then don't do it :)

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groovygrievy
43 minutes ago, .Lia said:

Sex isn't about "if you love him/her, you'll do this", it's about "I love him/her, and I want to do this". If the "want" isn't there, then don't do it :)

The want to want to is there but there is this lack of knowing how to overcome fears. I have a lot of confusion of how physical intimacy starts. And sexual friends say it's a feeling but obviously I don't feel those feelings so I don't even know how to approach it. I'm talking about I don't know how to approach even things such as cuddling without clear probably verbal signals. 

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Binary Star

"Each time he says it's okay if we never have sex but more and more he has been telling me of the sexual activities he would like to explore with me."

^

I would ask him to try not to do this. Even though he might not mean to pressure you, I think it's inevitable that's the effect it's going to have. 

 

I also upset myself & "want to want" to do things but this is something I've been trying to stop thinking. I think it's important you communicate that to him so that hopefully he can help you not to feel that way. He loves you & wants you to be happy just as much as the other way around, and both of your needs are equally valid & important. 

 

I think physical intimacy is just something which develops over time as you become more comfortable around each other. Relationships are always a bit awkward at first! 

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groovygrievy

Thanks all. We have since broken up and I never actually got around to that topic of conversation. Long distance sucks. 

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CBC

I'm sorry to hear that. Long-distance is really hard at times, yeah; I've done it more than once and it takes a lot of concerted effort to find ways to effectively and creatively navigate the parts that would be much easier without the distance. 

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Rupa
On 6/5/2017 at 9:55 PM, .Lia said:
  1. You are never, ever, in the wrong for setting your limits and sticking to them. Someone who tries to make you feel bad about your limits is in the wrong. Always.
  2. You first have to decide what your limits are. Limits can change. For instance, you can say "for now, I only want to touch over our clothes". And in a month or 5 or whenever, you might say, "I'm okay exploring underneath clothing".
  3. You also might think the limit is fluid, and it turns out that it's not. That's okay.
  4. You have to decide your hard limits, that are unlikely to ever change. For me, it's oral sex performed on me (TMI, sorry). Don't want it, don't try it, don't expect it, because I don't like it. Period.
  5. Be 100% honest, even if that is uncomfortable. 
  6. Talking might not be your thing. Writing down your limits might be helpful, for example.
  7. Ask your partner about his/her limits. Even though they're sexual, they will have limits, even if they haven't come across them yet.
  8. It is 100% always okay to stop in the middle of anything you're doing, even if your partner is well within your set limits. 

Gosh, wish I’d had someone give me this list about 2 years ago lol. Not that I would have fully believed it and pressured myself anyway 😂

 

Point 4 in particular. People haven’t seemed to believe me when I have felt uncomfortable, general consesus seems to be they enjoy a thing so they want me to, and something about them not wanting to be selfish and wanting to reciprocate, which leads them to persist. So that was fun :P (not)

In the past now anyway heh

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uhtred

Relationships in general and sex in particular should be mutually enjoyable. 

 

Don't feel pressured to do anything you are not comfortable doing

 

but

 

If he is not happy with your joint level of intimacy he should feel comfortable ending the relationship.

 

There is nothing wrong with any level of desire for intimacy, but if a couple is very  different in that way, they may not be a good match for each other. 

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Rupa

Mm. In my case I had to split us though he very much wanted us to stay together. I’d already reached the point of really wanting to avoid him though, much as it wasn’t really his fault. Ah well, live and learn.

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Lara Black
On 6/5/2017 at 11:33 PM, groovygrievy said:

For other asexuals how did you go about talking about sex? How do you set limits without feeling scared that you are in the wrong? And same for those of you who are sexual, simply how have you found to navigate the topic and not so much the act. 

Hello, @groovygrievy

Honestly, sometimes I need to be reminded that what we have is all that my partner desires. I’m a very direct person, so I just ask from time to time – once in several months. And yes, I do sometimes fantasize about having traditional sex with him, but I wouldn’t tell him about it, same as I wouldn’t bother a vegetarian with ideas of him eating meat – why evoke those unpleasant thoughts in him?

So basically, before I say something about our sex, I consider the risks of causing discomfort.

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anamikanon
On 5/10/2018 at 11:52 PM, groovygrievy said:

Thanks all. We have since broken up and I never actually got around to that topic of conversation. Long distance sucks. 

Sorry about that, but I think it is for the best, because...

 

On 6/6/2017 at 2:03 AM, groovygrievy said:

Each time he says it's okay if we never have sex but more and more he has been telling me of the sexual activities he would like to explore with me. 

Red flag.

 

I am sexual, and I can say with certainty that it is very hard to wrap one's brain around people not wanting sex. For us it is meaningless like "not wanting food". Not wanting what type of food, or not wanting what company for a meal, or you may have a serious issue with anorexia, but still, you'll eat at some point to live, right? I can just imagine how wonderful that difficult to achieve meal will be. I want to make it very special for you.... 

 

I'm not joking. From hearing "I'm not interested in sex" to understanding that sentence to be a complete sentence and not "I don't want sex in this style/frequency/whatever". A process of elimination later, we tend to interpret it as "I don't want to have sex with you" - which is what it often is with sexuals who say they don't want sex - where the said you is us and take it personally. Because of course, it is not comprehensible that you don't want sex at all, with anyone - we don't get that for a long time, even after hearing it and understanding it conceptually.

 

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groovygrievy
On 7/14/2018 at 9:30 AM, anamikanon said:

For us it is meaningless like "not wanting food". Not wanting what type of food, or not wanting what company for a meal, or you may have a serious issue with anorexia, but still, you'll eat at some point to live, right?

I actually have a neighbour who doesn't care about food. She thinks it is a waste of time and would much rather being doing other useful things like reading. She eats because otherwise she will die but her mum says if she could just be a plant and gain strength via photosynthesis she would do that. I essentially have a perfectly healthy neighbour who is food indifferent. 

 

On 7/14/2018 at 9:30 AM, anamikanon said:

Red flag.

 

I'm not joking. From hearing "I'm not interested in sex" to understanding that sentence to be a complete sentence and not "I don't want sex in this style/frequency/whatever". A process of elimination later, we tend to interpret it as "I don't want to have sex with you" - which is what it often is with sexuals who say they don't want sex - where the said you is us and take it personally. Because of course, it is not comprehensible that you don't want sex at all, with anyone - we don't get that for a long time, even after hearing it and understanding it conceptually.

 

I get what you are saying, but I don't think him saying he has desires was a red flag. I knew he would never ever have pressured me into doing anything. He may have gotten bored or frustrated at the speed that I would have been okay to explore at. I don't know if this boredom would have lead to him ending it. I don't know. Ultimately we broke up because you shouldn't both being doing post grad degrees while trying to date when you are in different cities. 

 

Hypothetically if we were dating how could I go about saying "I don't want to have sex with you because of the person you are, its more that you are another human being that is making nauseaus. Or rather the act of me being involved sexually with another person. Who ever that person is."  Is this enough to make people not feel insecure about their bodies. Is this enough for them to realise I am still capable of loving them? How do I explain to them that their mind is enough, that I'm not here for their body? 

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Ardoise

@anamikanon. thank you for explaining that. 

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Telecaster68
2 hours ago, groovygrievy said:

if we were dating how could I go about saying "I don't want to have sex with you because of the person you are, its more that you are another human being that is making nauseaus. Or rather the act of me being involved sexually with another person. Who ever that person is."  Is this enough to make people not feel insecure about their bodies. Is this enough for them to realise I am still capable of loving them? How do I explain to them that their mind is enough, that I'm not here for their body? 

I think 'It's not you - I don't want to have sex with anyone' might be a simpler construction of the same meaning....

 

It's not so much about us sexuals being insecure about our bodies, it's about being insecure about whether we're more than friends, and feeling stymied because we don't get to express it in the way we would with another sexual. We get it, on a rational basis, eventually, but on an emotional basis, I think even if the relationship gets to some kind of equilibrium, we'll always feel there's something missing. The question then becomes whether what's missing is too much to deal with, long term.

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anamikanon
On 7/16/2018 at 12:58 AM, groovygrievy said:

Hypothetically if we were dating how could I go about saying "I don't want to have sex with you because of the person you are, its more that you are another human being that is making nauseaus. Or rather the act of me being involved sexually with another person. Who ever that person is."  Is this enough to make people not feel insecure about their bodies. Is this enough for them to realise I am still capable of loving them? How do I explain to them that their mind is enough, that I'm not here for their body? 

Not a lot you can do other than be loving and still not want sex, till the person realizes the obvious.

 

It will take a lot of patience and when they get it, there will still be a grieving process for the potential for closeness that just went off the table. But if you two are otherwise good together, it can still be very much worth it. I love my ace to bits, and I am very sexual. If they love you, sooner or later, they are going to "get it" that giving you your ideal sexual experience is not giving you one.

 

There are many examples of sexuals in relationships with aces here. Some remain frustrated after decades. Others learn to have a good relationship in a way that works for both - usually means the sex is gone or some form of drastically reduced frequency if an ace is indifferent rather than averse and would like to offer sex to bring pleasure to their partners.

 

But be prepared for a rough ride before any smooth sailing.

 

Ideally, if you aren't already in a relationship with a sexual and you know you are ace, you may want to avoid garden variety hyper-heterosexuals, whose idea of a relationship has the word "hot" prominently and seek someone who has made some effort to nuance their sexuality. Simply the awareness of diversity of sexual behavior is a good starting point to understanding asexuality as yet another way people can be different. This is not necessarily someone who isn't heterosexual, but simply someone who has given a lot of thought to these things. For example, I'm sexual, but even before my partner identified as ace, I already knew what I wanted and what I didn't and used terms like sapiosexual, demisexual, "heterosexual so far", and so on. Still a sex life of regularity, but an awareness that it isn't a mindless given in a relationship.

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anamikanon

I would warn against trying to meet a sexual midway on sex, unless you are very certain you can handle it. It is way better to state what you can't handle instead of trying to soften it with "perhaps sometimes...", because a sexual's idea of even "sometimes" will be way more often than an ace and you'll end up creating expectations that end up pressurizing you.

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anamikanon
On 7/14/2018 at 2:00 PM, anamikanon said:

From hearing "I'm not interested in sex" to understanding that sentence to be a complete sentence and not "I don't want sex in this style/frequency/whatever". A process of elimination later, we tend to interpret it as "I don't want to have sex with you" - which is what it often is with sexuals who say they don't want sex - where the said you is us and take it personally. Because of course, it is not comprehensible that you don't want sex at all, with anyone - we don't get that for a long time, even after hearing it and understanding it conceptually.

That said, I was just thinking that this is not necessarily a bad thing. At least when in a mixed relationship and if the ace is more indifferent than averse.

 

My inability to exclude sex from how I saw him has certainly led to a LOT of conversations around eroticism, sex, gender, desire, fantasies... which both of us have found enriching. They were essentially born from my trying to find out more of what works for him, given that sex clearly didn't. On his part, they were rarely initiated by him, unless it was to share the occasional joke/poster/cartoon that would appeal to my views that he came across. He himself has no particular preference or interest, though he "gets" sex enough to get basic jokes and such - at least when he reads them - not so good with conversation. lol.

 

But that is typical of him. He calls himself "textual" rather than sexual. Reading erotica can get him aroused way more easily than me standing naked in front of him. The catch, of course, being there is no reason to read erotica to begin with, since it is hardly the reading he'd seek... so it is more likely to be a depiction of a relationship in fiction he's reading for other reasons that catches his eye.

 

Things like this.... I'd never have known without those conversations. And in their own way, those conversations did serve to create an intimacy that was related to sex, but a mental intimacy, which sort of has worked very well to keep us comfortable naked - physically and mentally - around each other, even after the sex is over. Without that, I wouldn't see a reason to have him in my bedroom at all if he wasn't a sexual partner, but after the sex died, I realized we still have all sorts of intimacy with each other that we don't share with the world.

 

This is a sort of ramble, but I thought may be interesting thoughts around the subject if not directly relevant.

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Telecaster68

It emphasises how important communication is (though not sufficient by itself). My wife didn't want to talk about it, didn't see the point, had no interest, got very defensive. It's that, as much as the lack of sex, that's done for us.

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anamikanon

 

On 7/18/2018 at 11:48 PM, Telecaster68 said:

It emphasises how important communication is (though not sufficient by itself). My wife didn't want to talk about it, didn't see the point, had no interest, got very defensive. It's that, as much as the lack of sex, that's done for us.

My ace is rarely interested in talking about sex - involving him. Some of our worst "going nowhere" conversations were about what kind of sexual fantasies he enjoys - at this point I did know that he masturbates on rare occasion to erotica. Much frustration later, he was able to explain that he himself has no idea. It is a moment to moment thing. Something clicks one day, may not another. He can't think of a reliable common factor. He had no clear answer for what he found erotic in any specific instance that he did find it erotic in either. It was more like "the whole thing. My mood, how the story read to me at that moment...."

 

On the other hand toss something like "Why do you think people want to have sex?" or "Why does BDSM work for some and not for others?" or "Do you think you are gay?" into the room and watch him hypothesize! It is easier for him to be cerebral about it rather than put himself into a sexual context. It is just how it is. He isn't gay or bi, so asking about that won't halt his conversation. You ask him if he is heterosexual and there begins the stumbling, because he really has no frame of reference to reply from. Push him, and he'll get defensive. An answer has to be spontaneous participation, if you require one, it becomes a task.

 

Try to speak in different ways. The more the resistance, back away from that kind of conversation. Do more of what works. Different kinds of conversation - conceptual, historical context, some film you saw, or just share your own views.

 

Also, I shouldn't have to point this out, but doing it just to be idiotproof: have that same eagerness for her views on all sorts of subjects. Not just sex. That will come across as you having nothing but sex on your mind.

 

Edit: We have had diverse conversations about sex, but we've had diverse conversations about democracy, digital rights, gardening, physical therapy, alternative medicine, blood sugar, exercise, weight loss, hair color, child rearing concepts, and what not as well. Sex is just one of the subjects that is a recurring theme. There are many recurring themes.

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ryn2

So many good points there, @anamikanon.  Without a carefully-tailored approach conversations about sex can quickly feel like conversations around “why is it you always leave the cap off the toothpaste, no matter how often I ask you not to?” and that’s only going to build exasperation/resentment.

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Telecaster68

@anamikanon 

 

We're splitting up so it's all academic. And believe me, I tried every possible approach. Most of my working life has involved drawing people out in conversation one way or another so I have a good toolkit. None of it worked. If I backed off, she just felt relieved and closed down entirely. 

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anamikanon
12 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

@anamikanon 

 

We're splitting up so it's all academic. And believe me, I tried every possible approach. Most of my working life has involved drawing people out in conversation one way or another so I have a good toolkit. None of it worked. If I backed off, she just felt relieved and closed down entirely. 

Well, you do seem to be in a pretty bad situation AND it has festered for years... maybe she simply isn't interested. My ace is always interested in me and sharing ideas. Perhaps that may be the key. We got together because he pursued me because of my views. So conversation has always been the highlight, so to say...

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Telecaster68
3 minutes ago, anamikanon said:

My ace is always interested in me and sharing ideas. Perhaps that may be the key. We got together because he pursued me because of my views. So conversation has always been the highlight, so to say...

To hear our conversation on a superficial level, it would sound like it's sharing ideas and all that; but actually a couple of sentences of stating some facts about a subject (or her opinion as though it's fact), and she's done. When I try to have conversations with her they mostly die a death after a couple of exchanges - she just doesn't reply. I'm pretty sure there's something aspy going on with her (not just because of the sex, but lots of other unrelated things), so there's a fundamental lack of ability to process empathy. It's that lack of empathy which means she doesn't understand why or how to accommodate anyone else beyond on a very basic social level and in general she's very, very flat emotionally (and believe me, I've tried to dig deeper on that. She just got annoyed and said I should stop because there wasn't anything deeper going on...).

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anamikanon
13 hours ago, ryn2 said:

So many good points there, @anamikanon.  Without a carefully-tailored approach conversations about sex can quickly feel like conversations around “why is it you always leave the cap off the toothpaste, no matter how often I ask you not to?” and that’s only going to build exasperation/resentment.

We don't have an approach so much as we talk about a lot of things, all the time. We have good conversations when things work, and abort when they don't - on anything that crosses our mind. but at the heart of it - we converse a LOT. As in really a lot. We're at it on chat when apart, looking up from work to share something interesting we are doing/reading, discuss something that catches our eye on social media, what's going on with someone where we have a specific opinion, something that happened in the day... whatever. Most of these are just normal, transactional exchanges. Others trigger conversation when the other person has something to say as well...

 

In that sense, there is no toothpaste example going on. We can actually discuss serious issues either of us face - my refusal to socialize even when he thinks it is appropriate or necessary (you can just iamgine what a joy the idea of the upcoming public wedding reception is to me), his disinterest in sex, and so on, without making it like we are trying to "fix" the other then and there. More like pooling ideas around the subject to see if there are any useful ones.

 

The lack of blame is so notable, that I can say something like "You don't want to have sex and I'm frustrated" without either of us needing to get defensive about a simple statement of fact. He can empathize that I am frustrated and I can empathize that he's not interested and still discuss the impact of frustration on me and how he could make me feel better or what does interest him about me, and so on. We are quick to see the irony in situations and laugh at ourselves and make suggestions to the other with ideas for coping with our own challenges.

 

For an example that avoids sex or a reason for him to be defensive: I am NOT into meeting lots of people. He wants to show me off to his loved ones and wanted a wedding reception. I recognize that this is an important occasion for him and it matters a lot to him that I agree to do this. So I agreed to a limited crowd, relatively austere proceedings. But frankly, I was still stressed. I am not into traditional stuff, girly stuff, make up OR people. I already have him whether I agree or not. NOTHING to excite me. Till he suggested that this could be a good way for me to get artistic about make up. I may not care about how I look and so on, but I do enjoy art. Now I'm going through YouTube videos on hair cuts and make up and makeovers and what not happily. Strategizing how I'd like to create an artistic effect of which I am a part. I no longer care how many people will be there or that I'll have to doll myself up or whatever. It isn't a wedding reception anymore, it is an art geek's exhibition 😛

 

Instead of guilting me or telling me it won't be so bad, he supported me, knowing it would be hard for me, and suggested things that could make me enjoy it better. Not sure if the idea comes through, but it is teamwork, not at all adverserial, because we prefer different things.

 

It is a lot of friendly trust. We may be unable to do something, but we are solid that we are loved and accepted anyway.

 

Less what we "do" than how we are with each other.

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Neshama
On 6/5/2017 at 1:33 PM, groovygrievy said:

Hello

I'm in my first relationship and I'm the asexual whereas my bf is the sexual one. The most we have done is kissed we haven't even cuddled yet (we're long distance at the moment). For the first 6 months we didn't do much I guess I must have been giving off odd vibes. In those 6 months he did learn that I was asexual and sexually incredibly inexperienced. Each time he says it's okay if we never have sex but more and more he has been telling me of the sexual activities he would like to explore with me. 

 

For other asexuals how did you go about talking about sex? How do you set limits without feeling scared that you are in the wrong? And same for those of you who are sexual, simply how have you found to navigate the topic and not so much the act. 

When I was first figuring out sexuality, I did some deep dive research and created a list of sexual activities of all types from the deepest corners of kink to kisses and cuddles and organized them into five categories. 

  1. Things that I absolutely love and need in a relationship
  2. Things that I have tried and liked, but can live without
  3. Things that I haven't tried, but would be willing to try
  4. Things that I have tried and I'm not a particular fan of but I am comfortable with
  5. Things that I absolutely hate and will never do for anyone

If you have this master list with the things in category three moving about as they are tried, then you can be 100% clear with a partner from the get-go. Be really clear at the beginning of a relationship and make the lists before you engage physically. If they have a similar list then you can find activities that overlap and respect hard boundaries. Just remember that you have to stick to your guns on number five items and if anyone tries to budge you then they either need to adapt and respect you or get kicked to the curb.

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Telecaster68

That seems rather... analytical.

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ryn2
49 minutes ago, Telecaster68 said:

That seems rather... analytical.

More like kink-community-style.

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