Asexuality: A Spectrum or An Identity

[ItWasNiceKnowingYou]

I couldn't really make a poll because the questions seemed awkward to have as just yes,no, maybe so type questions. @Snao Çoñé & @Star Bit made me think about it, and every time i think of asexuality, i thought of it as a spectrum & an identity after seeing the many different identities show up.... Though I've come to just recognize it as more of an identity only (with lack of sexual attraction & not desiring partnered sex with anyone/anything) as of late.

 

So your thoughts

 

1) Should 'asexuality' be the focal point & an umbrella term or just simply an identity alone (& not used as an umbrella term at all)

 

2) If asexuality were to be solely an identity,  then would the asexual community be independent or inclusive of demi- and grey- sexuals?

 

3) Any other thoughts that come to mind in the process of answering the above two questions

 

Also 4) would there be an umbrella term for various identities? (Demi,grey,ace,caed,etc)

[ItWasNiceKnowingYou]

Edited into above

[Homer]

My stance on this:

 

(1) Asexuality is NOT a spectrum. It's the complete absence of an innate desire for partnered sexual activity. There's only one or the other. If you experience this desire, however rarely, that's sexual. Sexuality is a spectrum, asexuality isn't. Asexuality is on the extreme of one end of the sexuality spectrum.

 

(2) Yes to inclusion to the community, NO to inclusion regarding terms. See above.

 

(3) Screw this label overload already. Now. Leave that to Dumblr.

[ItWasNiceKnowingYou]

@Homer And #4?

[Homer]

See 3

[Stralen]

1 hour ago, Homer said:

My stance on this:

 

(1) Asexuality is NOT a spectrum. It's the complete absence of an innate desire for partnered sexual activity. There's only one or the other. If you experience this desire, however rarely, that's sexual. Sexuality is a spectrum, asexuality isn't. Asexuality is on the extreme of one end of the sexuality spectrum.

 

(2) Yes to inclusion to the community, NO to inclusion regarding terms. See above.

 

(3) Screw this label overload already. Now. Leave that to Dumblr.

I couldn't have liked this enough, and thus nothing else to add (sorry). I've always believed in this, but my mistake was posting a rant about it on Tumblr which got so much negative attention that I had to remove it and... just not mention/ discuss it ever again. D;

[swirl_of_blue]

I believe asexuality shoudn't be an umbrella term of any kind, as that is not something it can be or is. Asexuality is one end of the sexuality spectrum, namely the end where there is no sexual attraction or desire. However, I wouldn't be against there being some sort of an umbrella term for those on the spectrum very close to the asexual end but not quite asexual. An example could be someone who has very low libido, almost nonexistent sexual desire, feels almost no sexual attraction and is both demiromantic and demisexual. A person like that could easily go their whole life living practically like an asexual person and face many of the same fears, anxieties, questions and challenged as many asexuals. There are also those who feel some sexual attraction (or at least something borderline sexual) but will never feel the desire for partnered sex. The community also needs to be open to those who are not sure of whether they are ace or not.

[SamwiseLovesLife]

2 minutes ago, swirl_of_blue said:

I believe asexuality shoudn't be an umbrella term of any kind, as that is not something it can be or is. Asexuality is one end of the sexuality spectrum, namely the end where there is no sexual attraction or desire. However, I wouldn't be against there being some sort of an umbrella term for those on the spectrum very close to the asexual end but not quite asexual. An example could be someone who has very low libido, almost nonexistent sexual desire, feels almost no sexual attraction and is both demiromantic and demisexual. A person like that could easily go their whole life living practically like an asexual person and face many of the same fears, anxieties, questions and challenged as many asexuals. There are also those who feel some sexual attraction (or at least something borderline sexual) but will never feel the desire for partnered sex. The community also needs to be open to those who are not sure of whether they are ace or not.

Yes I agree. I do think Demi/greysexuality are valid terms but they are in the sexuality spectrum, not asexual. No reason they shouldn't use Aven and such though as they can face similar problems (also, why be elitist?).

[Anthracite_Impreza]

2 hours ago, Homer said:

My stance on this:

 

(1) Asexuality is NOT a spectrum. It's the complete absence of an innate desire for partnered sexual activity. There's only one or the other. If you experience this desire, however rarely, that's sexual. Sexuality is a spectrum, asexuality isn't. Asexuality is on the extreme of one end of the sexuality spectrum.

 

(2) Yes to inclusion to the community, NO to inclusion regarding terms. See above.

I'm lazy, I'm with this.

[Clumsy Fairy]

2 hours ago, Homer said:

 

My stance on this:

 

(1) Asexuality is NOT a spectrum. It's the complete absence of an innate desire for partnered sexual activity. There's only one or the other. If you experience this desire, however rarely, that's sexual. Sexuality is a spectrum, asexuality isn't. Asexuality is on the extreme of one end of the sexuality spectrum.

 

(2) Yes to inclusion to the community, NO to inclusion regarding terms. See above.

 

(3) Screw this label overload already. Now. Leave that to Dumblr.

This deserves more than just a "Like". This deserves my whole hearted support

 

If sexuality is different genres of music. Asexuality is when you have no ipod. 

[Homer]

24 minutes ago, Lord Grep said:

If sexuality is different genres of music. Asexuality is when you have no ipod. 

I'd rather say asexuality is when you're deaf. (There are mp3 players with no rotten fruit on them , so an ipod doesn't really cut it)

[Clumsy Fairy]

11 minutes ago, Homer said:

I'd rather say asexuality is when you're deaf. (There are mp3 players with no rotten fruit on them , so an ipod doesn't really cut it)

Ooo Picky picky Homer... One day you will just agree with something I say <grin>.

[Homer]

Just now, Lord Grep said:

Ooo Picky picky Homer... One day you will just agree with something I say <grin>.

I disagree

[Clumsy Fairy]

Just now, Homer said:

I disagree

Paaahahahahahaaa.

[Homer]

1 minute ago, Lord Grep said:

Paaahahahahahaaa.

Is that Finnish for iPod?

[Clumsy Fairy]

Ishpood. I guess. I watched too much Borgen. Shit... That was Danish.. 

[dragon_nerd]

1) Should 'asexuality' be the focal point & an umbrella term or just simply an identity alone (& not used as an umbrella term at all)

Asexuality is the extreme end of the sexual scale, where individuals feel no sexual attraction. 

 

2) If asexuality were to be solely an identity,  then would the asexual community be independent or inclusive of demi- and grey- sexuals?

Of corse! We are a small enough community as it is, why alienate/belittle/exclude/etc other people with similar experiences to us. And also, we shouldn't be mean to anyone! Regardless of identity. 

 

 

 

[chair jockey]

A "pure" asexual forum permitting membership only to people who have no sexual attraction whatsoever sounds like a tempting idea...but it was tried in the past and failed. There was a splinter forum for nonlibidoists that broke off from AVEN, but my understanding is that its exclusivist nature caused it to fall apart. I think AVEN is inclusive partly because it learned from other people's bad experience in that regard.

[Snao Cone]

6 hours ago, SimplyAce said:

1) Should 'asexuality' be the focal point & an umbrella term or just simply an identity alone (& not used as an umbrella term at all)

 

2) If asexuality were to be solely an identity,  then would the asexual community be independent or inclusive of demi- and grey- sexuals?

 

3) Any other thoughts that come to mind in the process of answering the above two questions

 

Also 4) would there be an umbrella term for various identities? (Demi,grey,ace,caed,etc)

1) "asexual" should be mostly seen as a fixed point, with possible nuance, much like gay or straight. It should be seen as an identity.

 

2) The asexual community should absolutely include demi and grey folks. They're relevant to the aims of awareness, and might find they have much more in common with asexuals. 

 

3) I think through this sort of thing on occasion and sometimes have really well-worded thoughts that escape me by the time I get here. So of course because I'm already here, nothing profound comes to mind.

 

4) "towards the asexual end of the spectrum" is my favourite phrase for this kind of thing.

[Pramana]

I would argue in favour of the asexual spectrum concept, for the following reasons:

1. It is increasingly common to talk about psychological phenomena in terms of spectrums (autism, OCD, etc).

2. If asexuality isn't a spectrum, then the only actual asexuals would be non-libidoists (since libidoists are obviously more sexual than non-lididoists).

3. People are widely using the terms gray-asexual and demisexual because those terms are useful to them. A simple test is that if it would make more sense for you to use an asexual dating site than a sexual dating site, then you're asexual spectrum. For those people, the alternative term gray-sexual would likely cause confusion regarding what they actually want. In other words, if you're functionally asexual, then you're asexual spectrum.

4. The concepts of gray-asexuality and demisexuality are accepted by psychologists. This is one of the ways in which asexuality differs from other sexual orientations. But note that other sexual orientations also lack an equivalent to our distinction between libidoists and non-libidoists, so even here asexuality is distinguished as being a matter of degree.

[ItWasNiceKnowingYou]

@Pramana Actually i think aces with libidos are just as ace as asexuals without them. I know aces who just happen to have libidos and they 1)hate it , 2) see it as just an annoying itch they would get rid of if they could, and 3) have no desire to act on it whatsoever, not with a partner or otherwise. It's just there. Doesn't make them want to do anything.

[Clumsy Fairy]

9 hours ago, SimplyAce said:

 

2) If asexuality were to be solely an identity,  then would the asexual community be independent or inclusive of demi- and grey- sexuals?

I am not in favour of evicting anyone, but the only thing greysexual has in common really with asexual is that it rhymes a bit.

 

Odd how I view greysexual as being something normal, and I view those who engage in sex just as a hobby as the ones who need a name <grin>. I used to make-love when I was sexual. Had no clue what fucking was really like. I think I did it once, but it was not very successful. But hey I get that grey is a "thing" now. Still nothing like asexual. 

 

I am not fond of even saying that asexuality is on the same level as Heterosexuality, and Homosexuality. It's a different thing, and separate, and can for VERY many people be transitional, and symptomatic of other things.  

 

I also feel that the prevalence of asexuality has more to do with mislabeling. I think a true % of Asexuals in the population, lets say people over 25 who have had at least 5 years of being utterly devoid of the desire for partnered sex. is a very small proportions.

 

It's a shame there is not a forum for "I used to think I was an asexual", that way we would be able to work out so much more.

 

Again, I do not advocate shunning anyone. AVEN is AVEN.

[Pramana]

7 minutes ago, SimplyAce said:

@Pramana Actually i think aces with libidos are just as ace as asexuals without them. I know aces who just happen to have libidos and they 1)hate it , 2) see it as just an annoying itch they would get rid of if they could, and 3) have no desire to act on it whatsoever, not with a partner or otherwise. It's just there. Doesn't make them want to do anything.

I see your point here, but the same could be said for sex-repulsed gray-asexuals who experience low levels of of sexual attraction/desire, but who are grossed out by the thought of actually doing those things in real life.

[Ennis]

Asexuality is both: an identity and a spectrum. Let me explain my thoughts.

1) It's an identity, because it's clearly defined as a lack of sexual attraction/ desire for sexual interaction with other people. There are however many people in between. Sexuality is a spectrum and asexuality is the extrem end of it, as others said before.

 

2) On another level, asexuality is a spectrum, because the experiences of asexual people differ. I'm referring to romantic orientations and libido etc. Not all asexuals are alike.

[Pramana]

28 minutes ago, Lord Grep said:

It's a shame there is not a forum for "I used to think I was an asexual", that way we would be able to work out so much more.

That would make for an interesting forum or subforum, or even if there was just a thread dedicated to the topic.

[Clumsy Fairy]

1 minute ago, Pramana said:

That would make for an interesting forum or subforum, or even if there was just a thread dedicated to the topic.

That is a bloody good idea. I think a great deal could be learned from these people.

[ItWasNiceKnowingYou]

@Charlie Q. that's how i thought about it too when i made this thread to ask you guys (i am horrible in that i try to see both sides of an argument... And then see a 3rd point of view... And then i get complicated )

 

Just a question though. If we are thinking about asexuality as a spectrum, wouldn't things like romantic orientation & such be considered differences in the community simply because we are different people? And that beyond the baseline definition of asexuality, the differences seen in asexuals just branches from us just not being alike? Because everything manifests differently for different people?

Personally, when i talk to others about asexuality i stress that not every asexual is the same but we have those two baseline commonalities (in my op). If not, then i would be going through finding a million and one different words to try to explain every living difference among us.... And that seems unnecessary & more complicated. 

[ItWasNiceKnowingYou]

51 minutes ago, Pramana said:

I see your point here, but the same could be said for sex-repulsed gray-asexuals who experience low levels of of sexual attraction/desire, but who are grossed out by the thought of actually doing those things in real life.

I get what you are getting at too.

To me....Honestly those sounds like 2 completely different things to me. Just because an ace with a libido doesn't experience sexual attraction at all & are not so much avoidant of the thought of sex then they are annoyed that they're stuck with an unwanted bodily response that they have no desire to actually act on.

[Pramana]

15 minutes ago, SimplyAce said:

I get what you are getting at too.

To me....Honestly those sounds like 2 completely different things to me. Just because an ace with a libido doesn't experience sexual attraction at all & are not so much avoidant of the thought of sex then they are annoyed that they're stuck with an unwanted bodily response that they have no desire to actually act on.

Some people (like myself) are inclined to view asexuality as a more diverse category in the same sort of way as sexuality is a diverse category, while others are inclined to view it as fitting into narrower categorical confines analogous to heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality. If you want to view asexuality as an orientation analogous to heterosexuality, etc., then you're probably going to have to exclude everything that admits of degree (so gray/demi-sexuality and perhaps even libidoists) plus anything that is likely to vary over time (low or nonexistent sexual desire, especially when it's connected to personal circumstances/mental health issues).

My view is that asexuality is about identities and communities which allow people to challenge the perceived abnormality of a lack of interest in sexuality, and so for ethical reasons I would argue for an inclusive definition. If you say that only people who are biologically hardwired to have no interest in sex are real asexuals, then other types of asexuals are left vulnerable to claims that there is something wrong with them.

[ItWasNiceKnowingYou]

4 minutes ago, Pramana said:

Some people (like myself) are inclined to view asexuality as a more diverse category in the same sort of way as sexuality is a diverse category, while others are inclined to view it as fitting into narrower categorical confines analogous to heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality. If you want to view asexuality as an orientation analogous to heterosexuality, etc., then you're probably going to have to exclude everything that admits of degree (so gray/demi-sexuality and perhaps even libidoists) plus anything that is likely to vary over time (low or nonexistent sexual desire, especially when it's connected to personal circumstances/mental health issues).

My view is that asexuality is about identities and communities which allow people to challenge the perceived abnormality of a lack of interest in sexuality, and so for ethical reasons I would argue for an inclusive definition. If you say that only people who are biologically hardwired to have no interest in sex are real asexuals, then other types of asexuals are left vulnerable to claims that there is something wrong with them.

Not saying that at all. That sounds elitist af to say there are "truer" asexuals. I am not for that at all.

 

I am just proposing that (from asexuality isn't a spectrum point of view) even though asexuality is an identity, we can still have a community (like Aven) that is inclusive of identities that vary from lack of sexual attraction sometimes (demi,grey,caed,etc) to none at all. And that asexuality itself isn't really a spectrum itself but is a part of a wider spectrum of identities so that no one gets left out or told they're broken because they don't fit into the asexual "definition". Asexuality itself is just too small of a word to include every variation of sexual attractions (or lack thereof). It's like adding letters to the LGBTQ+ acronym. At some point everyone gets lost and the term loses it's signsignificance. 

I have no idea if i am making sense... Or if my analogy makes sense. (Please tell me if it doesn't)