why the term ceterosexual/romantic is transphobic and intersexphobic

[AVEN #1 fan]

- for example: when a cisguy says he only likes ciswomen, he's heterosexual/romantic. But, if a cisguy says he only likes transwomen, he's ceterosexual/romantic.

Also if a cisguy says he only likes intersex ciswoman, he's ceterosexual/romantic.

Transromantic, skoliosexual/skilosexual, skiloromantic/skolioromantic are terms woth the same meaning and problems.

In my opinion, ceterosexual/romantic is someone who likes non-binary people.

If you have no idea od what i'm talking about, google ceterossexual/romantic or skoliosexual/romantic, as how it was known before.

[Wineblood]

Googling ceterosexual shows this thread as the top result for me, so I'm going to say it's a made up word.

[Nanoic]

Bi like two genders, pan like all.

[Maz]

"Terms" can have phobia?

"Pan" includes all the 2 billion genders? ;)

[Anthracite_Impreza]

What I don't get about cetero-anything is that there are no physical markers to guide you so you'd have to actually ask someone their gender then experience the attraction, which is arse about face (back to front) to 'normal' attractions. If a trans-guy is read as female the attracted person is going by the physical markers of what they assume to be female, then may lose interest if they find out they're trans.

[cavalier080854]

I cannot be bothered with this BS. Social construct really is the pits for rational binary people. Epistemological theory nonsense based on itself and no facts. Intersex (usually DFAB) and hermaphrodites are genetic defects. I have meet one of the later. Feelings trump reality today. I'm off to reality, JFF.

[binary suns]

I'm pretty sure most people who are trans do not want to be outed as being trans. and on top of that, do not want someone to tell them that the reason they are attractive is because they are trans.

[Sleepy Skeleton]

I can't imagine what it's like to be ceterosexual/romantic. I mean, being attracted to androgyny/gender non-conformity is one thing, but you can't always tell who is trans and who is not. Does this mean that ceterosexuals/romantics suddenly feel attraction when they learn someone is trans? Just... attraction out of nowhere? That sounds like fetishizing to me. I'm not really sure.

[Dodecahedron314]

I was under the impression that ceteroromantic/sexual was, in fact, the term for someone who's attracted to nonbinary people, specifically coined by the nonbinary community in order to replace the former term skolioromantic/sexual, which was problematic because the root "skolio" means "bent" or "broken", which needless to say has something of a negative connotation. To the best of my knowledge, no one actually uses the cetero- prefix to say that they're attracted to binary trans but not binary cis people of a certain gender, or to intersex people--as others have pointed out, it's impossible to actually know whether someone who presents as a certain gender is cis or trans or intersex (or even identifies with the gender they present as in the first place), so having that as the defining factor of an orientation simply wouldn't make sense. Trans women are women, cis women are women, so the same appropriate prefix of homo-, hetero-, gyne-, etc. would be used no matter whether the woman you're attracted to is cis or trans because they're the same gender. Additionally, I believe that the general consensus is that the cetero- prefix is only really okay for use by nonbinary people themselves, because otherwise problematic assumptions about people's genders will very probably be made.

[JAKQ7111]

What, then, should replace "cetero-" or "skolio-" as the term for attraction to androgynous/gender-nonconforming people? It's not pan, and it's probably something under bi+, but maybe not if you yourself are not androgynous or gender-nonconforming. It seems like something that would be useful to acknowledge and define, and having a prefix like "cetero-" could help with that.

[AVEN #1 fan]

Bi like two genders, pan like all.

and poly likes more than one gender.

[AVEN #1 fan]

I can't imagine what it's like to be ceterosexual/romantic. I mean, being attracted to androgyny/gender non-conformity is one thing, but you can't always tell who is trans and who is not. Does this mean that ceterosexuals/romantics suddenly feel attraction when they learn someone is trans? Just... attraction out of nowhere? That sounds like fetishizing to me. I'm not really sure.

That's my point, intersex and trans people doesn't want to be outed, and labels like hetero and homo should be used by who likes them. A cisguy who likes intersex women and transwomen is hetero.

A cisguy who likes inteesex men and transmen is gay. And that's it.

Cetero should apply for who likes non-binary/androgynous individuals.

[King Al]

So are people who are skoliosexual into people with scoliosis?

[AVEN #1 fan]

What, then, should replace "cetero-" or "skolio-" as the term for attraction to androgynous/gender-nonconforming people? It's not pan, and it's probably something under bi+, but maybe not if you yourself are not androgynous or gender-nonconforming. It seems like something that would be useful to acknowledge and define, and having a prefix like "cetero-" could help with that.

Each gender should have an specific term, like androgynesexual/romantic and neutroissexual/romantic, that already exist.

We could have agendersexual/romantic, eunuchsexual/romantic, genderfluidsexual/romantic, etc.

[AVEN #1 fan]

So are people who are skoliosexual into people with scoliosis?

Yeah, they are also into squirrels. Skilosexual is a synonymous for skoliosexual. XD i'm joking. These terms are very messed up for sure.

[AVEN #1 fan]

I cannot be bothered with this BS. Social construct really is the pits for rational binary people. Epistemological theory nonsense based on itself and no facts. Intersex (usually DFAB) and hermaphrodites are genetic defects. I have meet one of the later. Feelings trump reality today. I'm off to reality, JFF.

Sry, but the h word is offensive to say around AVEN.

[AVEN #1 fan]

I'm not googling or using any of those terms, because they're unnecessary BS.

Oh well, that's not you reality, so your opinion has no importance over these people.

[Guest]

Can we please refrain from turning this nice discussion into a personal issue? I strongly advice you to either use the ignore option or the report button should you feel a member has done something you disagree with so the admod team can deal with the issue.
It would be a shame if i would have to lock this thread because members cant keep things civil while discussing a subject.

Jayce, A/Romantic orientations moderator.

[Wineblood]

I cannot be bothered with this BS. Social construct really is the pits for rational binary people. Epistemological theory nonsense based on itself and no facts. Intersex (usually DFAB) and hermaphrodites are genetic defects. I have meet one of the later. Feelings trump reality today. I'm off to reality, JFF.

Sry, but the h word is offensive to say around AVEN.

It's a biological term, how is it offensive?

[ChillaKilla]

I cannot be bothered with this BS. Social construct really is the pits for rational binary people. Epistemological theory nonsense based on itself and no facts. Intersex (usually DFAB) and hermaphrodites are genetic defects. I have meet one of the later. Feelings trump reality today. I'm off to reality, JFF.

Sry, but the h word is offensive to say around AVEN.

It's a biological term, how is it offensive?

It's not actually a biological term. Hermaphrodite means a person with two fully functional sets of sex organs, as in penis + testes AND uterus+ovaries. It's physically impossible in humans, outdated (the scientific community actually uses intersex), and considered an intersex slur. It's like using n*gro to describe a black person, or for me, calling me mongoloid because I'm of Asian descent.

So yeah. Not a bio term, and yes offensive.

[AVEN #1 fan]

I cannot be bothered with this BS. Social construct really is the pits for rational binary people. Epistemological theory nonsense based on itself and no facts. Intersex (usually DFAB) and hermaphrodites are genetic defects. I have meet one of the later. Feelings trump reality today. I'm off to reality, JFF.

Sry, but the h word is offensive to say around AVEN.

It's a biological term, how is it offensive?

It's not actually a biological term. Hermaphrodite means a person with two fully functional sets of sex organs, as in penis + testes AND uterus+ovaries. It's physically impossible in humans, outdated (the scientific community actually uses intersex), and considered an intersex slur. It's like using n*gro to describe a black person, or for me, calling me mongoloid because I'm of Asian descent.

So yeah. Not a bio term, and yes offensive.

And then sayong you only like interssx people is offensive.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

Well technically hermaphrodite is a biological term (my snails are hermaphrodites because they each have functional male and female parts), but it cannot be used for humans as it has never been recorded in humans, or even any mammal as far as I'm aware.

[Finn.]

Cetero is the new term for skolio, and it's only for nonbinary people to use. So it's not really transphobic. It's like homo- or heterosexual but for nonbinary people. It's not really a wide spread term, I see diamoric and enbian used more often (as the nonbinary equivalent to sapphic and achillean).

Yes, you cannot see somebody's gender. I know from experience though that I can be attracted to nonbinary people.

What, then, should replace "cetero-" or "skolio-" as the term for attraction to androgynous/gender-nonconforming people? It's not pan, and it's probably something under bi+, but maybe not if you yourself are not androgynous or gender-nonconforming. It seems like something that would be useful to acknowledge and define, and having a prefix like "cetero-" could help with that.

Each gender should have an specific term, like androgynesexual/romantic and neutroissexual/romantic, that already exist.
We could have agendersexual/romantic, eunuchsexual/romantic, genderfluidsexual/romantic, etc.

Having a term for each gender is not practical in my opinion. This would focus on labels not individual genders. There are certainly genderfluid people whose experience is totally different from mine. But yeah, I can imagine those terms also exist and maybe they are useful for some people so that's fair enough. Maybe there are people that are only attracted to women and agender people just as an example? I wouldn't be able to pin it down as specifically personally.

[AVEN #1 fan]

Cetero is the new term for skolio, and it's only for nonbinary people to use. So it's not really transphobic. It's like homo- or heterosexual but for nonbinary people. It's not really a wide spread term, I see diamoric and enbian used more often (as the nonbinary equivalent to sapphic and achillean).

Yes, you cannot see somebody's gender. I know from experience though that I can be attracted to nonbinary people.

What, then, should replace "cetero-" or "skolio-" as the term for attraction to androgynous/gender-nonconforming people? It's not pan, and it's probably something under bi+, but maybe not if you yourself are not androgynous or gender-nonconforming. It seems like something that would be useful to acknowledge and define, and having a prefix like "cetero-" could help with that.

Each gender should have an specific term, like androgynesexual/romantic and neutroissexual/romantic, that already exist.

We could have agendersexual/romantic, eunuchsexual/romantic, genderfluidsexual/romantic, etc.

Having a term for each gender is not practical in my opinion. This would focus on labels not individual genders. There are certainly genderfluid people whose experience is totally different from mine. But yeah, I can imagine those terms also exist and maybe they are useful for some people so that's fair enough. Maybe there are people that are only attracted to women and agender people just as an example? I wouldn't be able to pin it down as specifically personally.

Wouldn't people who like only women and agender be considered bi?

[Sleepy Skeleton]

Wouldn't people who like only women and agender be considered bi?

Technically I guess they could? Since the "bi" in bisexual means two. But to most people bisexual means being attracted to both men and women, so identifying as bi when you're only attracted to women and agender people may unintentionally mislead some. That's why I like to use the term polysexual. It's a way of saying you're attracted to more than one gender but without any implications as to what those genders might be.

[Philip027]

And then sayong you only like interssx people is offensive.

How is this offensive in any other way that it would be "offensive" to other guys for me to say I was heterosexual?

[ChillaKilla]

And then sayong you only like interssx people is offensive.

How is this offensive in any other way that it would be "offensive" to other guys for me to say I was heterosexual?

Because intersex isn't a gender. Intersex is a word to describe a congenital medical condition, and saying you're attracted to intersex people is like saying you're only attracted to amputees. It's a fetish, at best. But unlike a fetish such as amputees/BBW/whatever, there is no one "intersex" body. You could have a fetish for crossdressing or strange genitals, but that is certainly not the case for every intersex person so it's not only objectifying but inaccurate.

[ChillaKilla]

Also, I'm under the impression that ceterosexual is used to describe attraction to nonbinary people, not trans women or men. If you're a guy attracted to women, be the woman in question cis or trans, that's still heterosexual.

There's a valid point that you don't know someone's gender until they state it, so how could ceterosexuality work based on appearance, which is where I see two possibilities:

1. It's really more attraction to androgyny regardless of gender, or

2. It's in the same vein as demisexuality, and you only become sexually attracted after you know them and their identity closely

[Mychemicalqpr]

Cetero is the new term for skolio, and it's only for nonbinary people to use. So it's not really transphobic. It's like homo- or heterosexual but for nonbinary people. It's not really a wide spread term, I see diamoric and enbian used more often (as the nonbinary equivalent to sapphic and achillean).

Yes, you cannot see somebody's gender. I know from experience though that I can be attracted to nonbinary people.

Just trying to understand here, why can't cisgender people use cetero? If nonbinary people can be attracted to binary people, for example a gynesexual agender person, why can't a cisgender person be attracted to nonbinary/angrogynous people? And everything nonbinary is included in pansexual, right? Which as far as I'm aware, cisgenders can use?

I can't imagine what it's like to be ceterosexual/romantic. I mean, being attracted to androgyny/gender non-conformity is one thing, but you can't always tell who is trans and who is not. Does this mean that ceterosexuals/romantics suddenly feel attraction when they learn someone is trans? Just... attraction out of nowhere? That sounds like fetishizing to me. I'm not really sure.

That's my point, intersex and trans people doesn't want to be outed, and labels like hetero and homo should be used by who likes them. A cisguy who likes intersex women and transwomen is hetero.

A cisguy who likes inteesex men and transmen is gay. And that's it.

Cetero should apply for who likes non-binary/androgynous individuals.

Confusion like this is why I prefer to define attraction by perception rather than identity. Even if you don't include nonbinary and trans as possibilities, mistakes can still happen. For example, say you have a heterosexual man who mistakes an androgynous looking male who identifies as a man for a woman. The first guy might start to be attracted to the second guy, and that might change when his misconception is corrected. Does this mean he's not straight? If everything else in his experience lines up with being straight, than no, this just means he felt attraction to what he perceived as femininity. I've had straight guys experience attraction to me for the same reason, some even after being corrected. I don't think that makes them not straight necessarily--it could just mean that I have enough characteristics they perceive as femininely attractive that I'm close enough in their minds. Sometimes you can't make attraction black and white.

1. It's really more attraction to androgyny regardless of gender, or

2. It's in the same vein as demisexuality, and you only become sexually attracted after you know them and their identity closely

The first one is how I would say the cetero part of my panromanticism works. It's possible that someone with androgynous characteristics I'm attracted to will turn out to be cisgender, but I will still be attracted to their androgynous characteristics either way, whatever their gender identity actually is.

[Philip027]

Because intersex isn't a gender.

So? Who says someone's attraction must be defined by gender? On that same note, shouldn't you find pansexuals similarly "offensive" because gender doesn't factor in to who they can be attracted to?

If anything, I would think the more offensive standpoint is to assume someone else must play by the same "rules" as you regarding what they're into.

Some guys might only be into "redheads" or something, and as unfair as you might think that is (for instance, if you're not a redhead) they are still perfectly justified in having that preference. Any sort of offense you would take to that is, quite frankly, your own problem.