Ask Amy

[ghosts]

I thought this was interesting. What do you guys think? Here's a link: http://www.newsday.com/features/columnists...ures-columnists

Is marriage without sex worth keeping?

March 8, 2006


DEAR AMY: I am a 55-year-old woman married for two years to a 63-year-old man. During our courtship of six months, we shared an adequate sex life, but after he moved into my home (and our subsequent marriage), we have only been intimate about six times in the past two years. There is no physical reason for his problem. We have gone to counseling and he says that he loves me but that he operates on two levels. He feels that sex has nothing to do with love. I feel betrayed, hurt, rejected and lonely, but we both still love each other. I am struggling with either being celibate for the rest of my life or divorcing this man and remaining platonic friends. My husband has not been abused, nor is he a latent homosexual. He says it would take years of therapy to get to the bottom of his problem. He says that if I am willing to accept the status quo, we should stay together. Is giving up one's sexuality to remain in a marriage too much of a sacrifice? Would I be compromising myself and setting myself up for future resentments?

Celibate Bride


DEAR BRIDE: You aren't setting yourself up for future resentments. You're already there.

I don't know how your counselor handled this at the time, but at hearing your husband's theories on sex and love, I imagine that a good therapist would get out her appointment book and say, "Let's think about putting you two on the twice-a-week plan." Your husband is right. He needs therapy.

When men write to me saying that their wives withhold sex, I always point out that there is much more to marriage than sex and urge them to focus on those good things while they work on their sexual issues. But you don't even have the memory of intimacy to keep you warm on those frigid nights.

I don't know whether your marriage is worth sacrificing your sexual life for, but unless your husband is absolutely amazing in other ways, I can't imagine that it would be.

2013 Mod Edit: New Link

[Lady Heartilly]

Wow, that is probrably the most prejudice advice column I've read on here yet.

When men write to me saying that their wives withhold sex, I always point out that there is much more to marriage than sex and urge them to focus on those good things while they work on their sexual issues.

So it's okay for a woman to not want sex, but not a man? Yeesh, that last comment is just ridiculous! It sounds like any good traits that a spouse has aren't important unless they give good sex too.

[Goonie]

ouch :| wow years of therapy :?

[bard of aven]

At church this morning, a 90+ year old woman who came to my asexuality workshop a couple of weeks ago came up to me and said, "You know, I hope you weren't offended when I suggested to you at the workshop that some one should write into Ask Amy and tell her about asexuality." I thanked her and assured her that I was not at all offended and took it as a serious suggestion.

Any volunteers???

boa

[Dixie]

DEAR BRIDE: You aren't setting yourself up for future resentments. You're already there.

When I read that, I found that terribly upsetting, and rude.

[ghosts]

Any volunteers???

Yes, possibly... I've been thinking of doing that, but I'd have to see how well I could word it.

To be fair though... Do you guys think that the bride has a reason to be upset? I mean, she is a sexual, and before they got married, they had sex much more frequently. Do you think it's reasonable for her to resent the fact that he won't have sex with her anymore?

Either way, I do think that writing to Ask Amy would be a good idea, so that she is aware of asexuality as an orientation.

Holy crap though... This ticks me off:

but at hearing your husband's theories on sex and love, I imagine that a good therapist would get out her appointment book...

[Hallucigenia]

I mean, she is a sexual, and before they got married, they had sex much more frequently. Do you think it's reasonable for her to resent the fact that he won't have sex with her anymore?

It's perfectly reasonable for either or both parties in a sexual/asexual relationship to be frustrated. It is a situation of huge mismatch and, while I've seen evidence here (such as Hawke's marriage) that it can be dealt with if the couple loves each other, I have never heard of a case where both parties didn't experience some grief along the way (unless one of them was in denial about the situation and the other one was the only frustrated person...)

What's not reasonable is to put the entire blame on one person (either person) for a situation that's nobody's fault, and is simply a matter of naturally differing drives.

[starrysky]

I don't know how your counselor handled this at the time, but at hearing your husband's theories on sex and love, I imagine that a good therapist would get out her appointment book and say, "Let's think about putting you two on the twice-a-week plan." Your husband is right. He needs therapy.

Why do people always insist therapy is some magic wand that can solve all your problems? And no, a good therapist will not put you on the twice a plan for this problem--in fact I have asked for a once a week appointment and they told me I could only come every two weeks because once a week appointments are reserved for people with more serious problems like wanting to kill themselves, which is understandable. Is the husband not wanting sex THAT much of an emergency?

I did years of therapy for this and I am exactly the same as I was before I started, except with a lot less money. Basically all you're going to get is a therapist telling you sex is good and healthy and it's OK to like it. I know all that *intellectually* but that doesn't make me like sex, or give me a sudden drive to have it.

I can't stand Ask Amy, she is usually a snarky bitch and this response is a perfect example of why. All she had to do was say your husband is right, he does need therapy and I would suggest getting it immediately. Instead she writes some smart ass reply about putting him on the twice-a-week plan, as if not wanting to have sex is some extreme form of mental illness that desparately needs immediate attention.

[ApolloSeek]

Deconstructicons, transform and attack!

Is marriage without sex worth keeping?

Yes, it is. How about if a spouse gets injured and cannot have sex?

Or if they get older and have to abstain from sex for health reasons?

You can't trade a spouse in for a newer model or upgrade. People

aren't cars or computer programs.

Try and make the distinction please.

DEAR AMY: I am a 55-year-old woman married for two years to a 63-year-old man. During our courtship of six months, we shared an adequate sex life, but after he moved into my home (and our subsequent marriage), we have only been intimate about six times in the past two years.

Next time wait until after you're married. Gives a better context.

There is no physical reason for his problem. We have gone to counseling and he says that he loves me but that he operates on two levels. He feels that sex has nothing to do with love.

Guess what, he's right! He gets the grand prize, you get the consolation

prize. Sex not == love.

You'd realize that if you lived in reality instead of a Sex and the City

universe. Living that way will make you a Desperate Housewife.

Free yourself from the Sex-atrix.

I feel betrayed, hurt, rejected and lonely, but we both still love each other.

Boo hoo. Sounds like a soap opera. Or a femine masochist fantasy. Keep

this up and love will die.

I am struggling with either being celibate for the rest of my life or divorcing this man and remaining platonic friends.

How about accepting that your hubby's sex drive is different than yours?

Or that he is different?

Or *gasp* that reality and media are different? That Cosmo is just a

magazine? Oh the pain!

This is beginning to sound like the dreary impotence lines from the sitcom

Three's Company.

That's why most TV remotes have mutes. I'll bet he wants one for you.

My husband has not been abused, nor is he a latent homosexual.

Yes, he is being abused-by you. You called him a latent homosexual. Most

men his age consider being called gay an insult. My, aren't you the

diplomat.

Saying he is a latent homosexual is a worse insult (in his mind) than calling

him gay. Latent homosexual is a nice way of telling someone that they

know are homosexual but too cowardly to admit it. That's the kind

of insult that duels were once fought over.

Try that with Worf and see what happens.

He says it would take years of therapy to get to the bottom of his problem.

Have you asked him to explain? Or have you tried to understand him?

He says that if I am willing to accept the status quo, we should stay together. Is giving up one's sexuality to remain in a marriage too much of a sacrifice? Would I be compromising myself and setting myself up for future resentments?

Celibate Bride

If your marriage is great on all fronts other than sexuality, what's the

problem? Did you think this was some fanasty from a movie?

Do you expect your husband to meet your ever-growing demands? Or to

ignore your insults about his sexuality?

Wake up and smell the breakfast. Better yet, brew some coffee for your

hubby.

DEAR BRIDE: You aren't setting yourself up for future resentments. You're already there.

Ain't that the truth.

Thank you Miz Obvious!

I don't know how your counselor handled this at the time, but at hearing your husband's theories on sex and love, I imagine that a good therapist would get out her appointment book and say, "Let's think about putting you two on the twice-a-week plan." Your husband is right. He needs therapy.

I imagine a therapist would take another client to preserve the therapist's

own sanity.

When men write to me saying that their wives withhold sex, I always point out that there is much more to marriage than sex and urge them to focus on those good things while they work on their sexual issues.

They why are advising the exact opposite here? Houston, we have

problem. Contradiction check has failed.

But you don't even have the memory of intimacy to keep you warm on those frigid nights.

Try another blanket. Or turn up the thermostat. Or fix the furnance.

I don't know whether your marriage is worth sacrificing your sexual life for, but unless your husband is absolutely amazing in other ways, I can't imagine that it would be.

I don't know why she'd listen to you in the first place. At least Larry, Moe and Curly are funny.

*bangs gavel* You are hereby cited for contempt of reality.

[Hallucigenia]

My husband has not been abused, nor is he a latent homosexual.

Yes, he is being abused-by you. You called him a latent homosexual. Most

men his age consider being called gay an insult. My, aren't you the

diplomat.

Excuse me, but the woman writing to the column just said he was not a latent homosexual. Then you immediately accuse her of calling him one. WTF?

Please don't put words in sexuals' mouths that aren't there. Most of the sexuals in this kind of a relationship are just as confused as the asexuals, and attacking them irrationally is not going to help the cause. Both sides need information, not sneers.

[Hu]

*bangs gavel* You are hereby cited for contempt of reality.

I apologize in advance if I steal this line someday.

[littlelisa]

Maybe I'll write a response. I wrote one to a dating column *points to other thread*

Turns out it feels great to have a voice!

If I do, I'll post it here first to get some feedback.

[crazyjerseygirl]

I think the major problem here isnt that this couple are having sex issues and seem to think dear amy is some sort of sage, but the total lack of visibility of asexuals in society today. dear amy is giving horrible advice because all she and her clients know is sexuality, the concept of someone who is asexual just doesnt exist in their minds. We cant be calling sexuals stupid or uninformed when it is our duty to inform them. If nobody has yet written i shall volunteer to do so, it is the only way to ensure that people who are asexual know it.

[McBuh]

He feels that sex has nothing to do with love.

Jesus and all of his sincere followers need therapy.

I would reply that the problem isn't in thinking love and sex are different and prefering love, but in thinking love and sex are the same and refusing love.

But I also like crazyjerseygirl's approach.

[Hu]

Fine, I got inspired, but if anyone else wants to have a go it definitely couldn't hurt for Amy to get more than one.

DEAR AMY: On March 8, you told Celibate Bride that her husband was in need of extensive therapy and her sexless marriage probably wasn't worth saving. You may be right on both points, but there is something big missing from the equation. Her husband views sex as separate from love, and has no interest in the former. This could simply mean he belongs to the newly identified orientation of asexuality. Though there has been little research into this part of humanity until recently, preliminary studies indicate that as much as 1% of the population may in fact be neither straight nor gay, but in fact feel no sexual attraction whatsoever to any gender. Far from treating this as a disorder or inhibition, asexuals are becoming increasingly open to the world and aware of the possibilities for a fulfilling life and meaningful interpersonal relationships without sex. AVEN, the Asexual Visibility and Education Network (www.asexuality.org) has expanded in membership to over 6500 people in just a few years, and works hard to bring the existence of an asexual orientation to the public consciousness.

Knowledge of asexuality is vital in a case like Celibate Bride's. Though there is clearly a problem in the marriage because of this, greater understanding of her husband's needs as an asexual-- if this is what he is-- may be the path to necessary compromises on both sides. A look at the community on AVEN shows that there are, despite the odds, quite a few successful and loving relationships between asexuals and people of other orientations. It just takes a little creative thinking and a lot of understanding.

Asexy Optimist

By the way, since it takes a bit of digging to find her email address, it's askamy@tribune.com

[Amcan]

I think the major problem here isnt that this couple are having sex issues and seem to think dear amy is some sort of sage, but the total lack of visibility of asexuals in society today.

My problem is that people write to these advice people and expect to get advice that will solve their problem.

It preys on the need they have.

I feel for the couple and I think it is a shame that asexuality wasn't mentioned but reading some of the problems people write to advice columnists expecting advice worries me.

Here celebrities have advice columns on marriage nad love and sex. What qualifications do they have? They certainly won't have adequate knowledge in all liklihood.

I just think it's sad that couples feel the only place they can turn to sometimes is the tabloids.

Back to the informing thing -

Yes I think that people should be informed about it but then even here we have had people say their therapists didn't believe them when they explained about asexuality. In time that might change but sometimes even professionals shown evidence won't agree with yet.

Everything takes time.

What also puzzled me was the woman mentioned they had a courtship of 6 months when they had the adequate sex life. 6 months doesn't seem that long, but that could just be me. As Hallu said it's no-one's fault.

One day hopefully the informtion about asexuality will be there but even if it is I don't think it will guarantee every situation has a happy ending.

I hope that couple do alright, I really do.

[Hu]

Grr. Okay, so I wrote to Amy (see previous post) and got this one-line response:

This husband isn't asexual. He apparantly liked having sex outside of marriage -- he just associates it with a different sort of pleasure and isn't interested in it with his wife.

Amy Dickinson

I very much doubt there's any point in writing again, never mind how inadequate and ignorant this reply may be.

I don't know how "adequate sex life during our six-month courtship" turned into "he liked having sex," but you know, people never pretend for the sake of a partner. Hrmff.

[littlelisa]

I'm surprised she answered it. I would definitely reply to that and tell her just what you wrote (but worded better, of course). If she still won't believe, then give up. It still sounds just uninformed. And often it's hard to understand something you have never felt. It won't take much time to write:

"Amy,

This is actually fairly common, where the pressure to have sex and seem as though you enjoy it are so great in our society that it makes asexuals try to pretend that they fit in. There are definitely a large group of people who are asexual and yet have had sex at some point in their lives. It's likely that he liked his girlfriend enough that he felt he needed to give this to her for her to marry him, but just like there are men and women who gain weight after marriage because they stop trying to preserve a sexy image, he just doesn't spend that amount of time on it anymore. It's not any sort of guarantee that he is asexual, but it's a good option to consider. Also, a lot of people have varying sexual needs and desires, and if his desires have taken a nosedive since before the marriage, he might still be living asexually. In either case, AVEN, the Asexual Visibility and Education Network, would be a good resource for them. I urge you to publish the letter anyway, and maybe it will help others as well, who may feel alone not knowing that there are others who recognize themselves as asexual."

[littlelisa]

by the way, I didn't send the letter, but please feel free to send it, and edit it if you think it needs it.

[McBuh]

Anyway, the guy's 63.

[AmyMorgan]

As a fellow Amy, I boo her and revoke her Amyhood. Boo, AskAmy. Boo.

[Shadow girl]

That's just sick.

I ought to give her a piece of my "asexual mind".

[Aeriel]

Re: ApolloSeek's post: Whoo-Hoo!!! *stands up and cheers*

Well said! Far out solid and right on~!