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touching-not-so-much

Why Do Sexuals Require SEX Specificially to Orgasm? Magic?

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touching-not-so-much

This is something I posted once, from one POV, and was going to reply to a sexual about, but it would have been a little accusatory and wasn't really on topic.

"I love sex but I can't get my [x] to do it more than once a month."

I don't understand posts like this, from either side. If someone HAS to have an orgasm, whether it's five times a day or once a week or whatever, they CAN, and they don't even have to guilt or talk somebody into it.

The other person does not HOARD "the sex" - an individual is quite capable of having sexual release without anyone else. Yes sex is a shared experience, but it doesn't magically make an orgasm DIFFERENT. It makes me think of people that go into chatrooms and when nobody is talking about what THEY want to, they say "I'm bored". You're bored? Well, gee, how can we resolve this earth-shattering crisis. Let's see, have YOU brought up a topic? No? Then STFU.

Or is the sex ACTUALLY for the closeness and intimacy and contact with this person? So is this a failing of sexuals to be able to understand themselves, that they are craving intimacy and they're just conflating sex AS that.

Either way, I see this as sexuals doing a great disservice to relationships and their asexual partners, if their view is "I really need to orgasm, but someone else that isn't interested has to do it instead of me because reasons." I realized as I've read the 20th complaint about this, this seems pretty fucking selfish.

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Philip027

This should have clued you in that maybe to these people sex isn't just about the orgasm ;)

an individual is quite capable of having sexual release without anyone else.

Maybe you, and quite possibly most people, can. So far, my experience points toward me not being able to.

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Star Bit

Some sexuals can't factually orgasm without sex; they can't masturbate or it's very hard to reach orgasm while doing so. It just provides specific sensations that they can't produce on their own.

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Sally

If someone says they love sex, 99.99999 of the times they're talking about sex with another person. (I'm amazed that needs to be said.)

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Bezzy-Loo

I think that a lot of it is social pressures and things that get ingrained from early on. Things like the idea that masturbation is bad, be it a sin or a sign that one is somehow "pathetic." Consider how much weight is given to the ideas of virginity or "getting laid." And for most sexuals, sex is the greatest form of intimacy and the greatest show of love and passion for another person. This idea seems to run very deeply, and I can at least understand how it could be tied in with a major show of trust - allowing a person to see and interact with your naked body.

Mind you, I'm not saying that it's right for a sexual to pressure or guilt an asexual (or even just someone not in the mood) into giving sex. Many of them simply don't understand the rejection or the disinterest.

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Mysticus Insanus

This should have clued you in that maybe to these people sex isn't just about the orgasm ;)

If someone says they love sex, 99.99999 of the times they're talking about sex with another person. (I'm amazed that needs to be said.)

These. QFT.

If it were just about the orgasm... then yes, sexuals should indeed just shut up and wank already instead of making a fuss about it. They (usually) have two healthy hands, so any problem of not getting orgasms boils down to nothing else than pure entitled laziness - so they should come off it already and solve their own problem, instead of expecting other people (i.e., sex partners) to solve it for them. :p

But the thing is, orgasm is very, very clearly just one component of what makes partnered sex appealing to sexuals. For probably most of them, the intimacy and social/emotional aspects of it are at least as important, if not more so... to the point that a lot of them can go without orgasms through sex and still value and enjoy partnered sex very much, and if need be, still just getting orgasms through masturbation beside it. If this at least as important non-orgasmic aspect wasn't there, I bet that sexuals would already just masturbate instead of making threads in SFPA - that solution would just be glaringly simple and obvious, and the vast majority of sexuals simply are nowhere near dumb enough not to be aware of it. They are just also aware - and much more so than some aces, apparently - that the orgasms they aren't having usually are not the actual problem why they miss sex in their 'ships.

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Telecaster68
Yes sex is a shared experience, but it doesn't magically make an orgasm DIFFERENT

As Mysticus says, it's not mostly about the orgasm; and even if it were, generally orgasms with someone else are different from solo orgasms, even just physiologically. They're more intense because the build up is generally longer, and it's not so much under your own control.

they are craving intimacy and they're just conflating sex AS that

We're not delusional. Sex with someone else is more intense and bonding than any other activity for us.

As for pestering - most of us sexuals in a relationship with an asexual are already mostly masturbating rather than bother our partners. It's only when the feelings of disconnection and rejection become too distressing to stamp down on that we bring it up.

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AshenPhoenix

As someone who has had sex, had a very good time, and specifically not actually orgasamed. I can confirm that yes, sex is not about the orgasm. It's usually a combination of sexual lust (I.E. the want to orgasm) and want for sexual intimacy. Which is a whole other thing. The former can indeed be solved by yourself, at least to an extent that for most people it solves the problem. The latter...? Ehhhhh, if anyone ever finds a way to do that by yourself I'd be very interested to find out how.

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WoodwindWhistler

"but it doesn't magically make an orgasm DIFFERENT."

Actually, yes, it does. Very much so. In the same way that imagining someone poking you feels different than someone actually poking you, fantasy is just not as physically good and satisfying. Or just rubbing one out. Remember, the difference between aces and allos is that they experience ATTRACTION, which generally means a bigger bang both at the meeting and the ending (and thereafter).

"In a 2011 study on psychological differences between partnered and solitary orgasm, results found that having an orgasm with a partner resulted in higher scores overall on the Orgasm Rating Scale."

http://kinseyconfidential.org/partner-sex-400-masturbation/

No 'magic' involved, just biology.

To use a food analogy, since we seem to gravitate to that around here, it's like you're craving a really well-sauteed mushroom dish with bread stuffing and someone says 'just go eat a raw mushroom, it's easier and less work and not as messy.'

At least, that's what I've gathered. I've never had a partnered orgasm, though I have done some sexual things. I'm much better at servicing myself, it seems. (one reason why I continue to identify as on the spectrum)

If "ace privilege" exists (I personally think it does) then you are 100% speaking from ace privilege, my friend.

Now, that's not to say that there are methods and holistic ways of reducing your sex drive, but that's different than what you're proposing, the former takes a good amount of effort and desire to do so, and neither are as well known.

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nanogretchen4

Either the stereotypical idea of a sexual person is unduly skewed toward a male experience or I'm just weird, or possibly both. I don't view partnered sex as a reliable path to orgasm. On the rare occasions when I particularly care whether I have an orgasm or not, I masturbate. I desire partnered sex quite a bit more often than that. My top three favorite activities have no chance of directly resulting in my orgasm. If I do manage to have an orgasm during partnered sex, it is not more intense. Mostly I'm just relieved that the stress and embarrassment of worrying about whether I will be able to have an orgasm is over. Also, after I have an orgasm I am more aroused than before orgasm, yet most partners, especially if male, feel that they've accomplished their mission and should go to sleep now. So really, traditional orgasmcentric sex doesn't work for me at all.

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Telecaster68
Either the stereotypical idea of a sexual person is unduly skewed toward a male experience or I'm just weird, or possibly both.

Bit of both, I think :)

From what I gather, quite a few sexual women don't necessarily orgasm during partnered sex, especially PIV, but they like the emotional closeness and desire anyhow - it's not the same thing as asexuals just enjoying it as I kind of pimped-up cuddle.

And orgasms vary; it happens that some partnered orgasms aren't as good as some solo ones, I guess. There's a sort of overlap in the venn diagram. But the overall experience of sex between two enthusiastic sexuals (there are other reasons than asexuality for someone not being into sex) is that it's a whole different ballpark than masturbation. You know masturbation will never be awful, and partnered sex can; but you know it'll never be mind blowing in the way partnered sex can. The range of possible wonderfulness/awfulness is greater, but it does skew towards wonderfulness. And my partner's enjoyment is part of that overall enjoyment, and can also affect my own orgasm.

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Aching

I know it's already been stated, but I'll add my voice to the chorus. Orgasm is one aspect of sex. A lovely thing, but yes, I can have one of those on my own. Sure, they are intensified by a partnered experience, but it is the intimacy that is missed. To feel another's breath, to look into another's eyes. It's validation. It's support. It's that acknowledgement of, for a moment in time, that you are not alone. I am here with you. (Not really looking to invoke Michael Jackson here) I am here for you. And I will fight like hell for your happiness. Because someday we are both going to die. And I want you in my corner. And I want to be in yours.

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dissolved

Orgasm is the bonus. It's not the be all and end all, but it's definitely something to aim for. It can be frustrating if it's not achieved for some people but ultimately... yeah, it's the bonus.

Yes sex is a shared experience, but it doesn't magically make an orgasm DIFFERENT

It really does. The build up is completely different, it's far more satisfying, and usually far more intense than a solo performance. There's only so much you can do alone, but with someone else there's a whole different level of stimulation, both physically and mentally... and all of that is added to the fact that you're pleasuring someone else (probably at the same time) and you get to see it and feel it... It's amazing. I can tell you, it's difficult to decide which is better: coming myself or making my partner come.

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OutsideObserver

snip

Whelp, good thing you cleared all that up for us. Guess we better have a moderator close this board, since you solved all incompatibility between aces and sexuals...

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Telecaster68

'Snip'?

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Tarfeather

Look rather to those situations where the desire for sex is something mutual. As selfish as you may find what you have read, you will find no sexual in a successful mixed relationship who hasn't gotten past that. We understand that sex is something our partners can not give us.

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ChillaKilla

I certainly don't 'require' sex... I function just fine without it and I'm the opposite of ace. Not knocking it, but I won't dry up into a pile of dirt *shrug*

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Telecaster68

I certainly don't 'require' sex... I function just fine without it and I'm the opposite of ace. Not knocking it, but I won't dry up into a pile of dirt *shrug*

How about if the choice was between never having sex again, or staying with a particular partner?

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Skullery Maid

I don't even really care about the orgasm, tbh. Mostly I'm content to finish myself off afterward if need be (and I don't always need to). It's the interaction with the person that's the compelling aspect. Besides, doing stuff to yourself feels totally different than someone doing it to you.

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Snao Cone

PIV can still feel good for the person with the vagina, even if they can't orgasm that way. It's still sensory. It's still giving attention to nerves and muscles that are usually ignored. Like, when you get a massage, there might be a knotted muscle that needs some intense attention, and when the therapist massages it properly it will feel soooo good. But still, a general relaxing massage also feels good.

On the very rare occasion I have real or artificial PIV action, it can feel nice to experience penetration, but it never feels as good as giving my clitoris proper attention. Even by myself it has its merits. I can't imagine how intensely better it would feel to someone who also had an emotional connection and a whole other body to play with.

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butterflydreams

The diversity of thoughts in this thread accurately reflects the diversity of thoughts I've heard generally about this topic.

Still though, I think I'd need to experience both to feel like I could say for sure, myself. *sigh*

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ChillaKilla

Well, Telecaster, I can't exactly stay with a partner since I'm aromantic. That'd make me more miserable than never having sex, to be honest.

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m4rble

This should have clued you in that maybe to these people sex isn't just about the orgasm ;)

an individual is quite capable of having sexual release without anyone else.

Maybe you, and quite possibly most people, can. So far, my experience points toward me not being able to.

Well, maybe most male bodied people anyway. I've never been able to do it but because Aven likes to talk about orgasm so fuckin' much(pun teehee ;) ) I decided to try to do it out of curiosity. I didn't succeed but I did get to higher levels of arousal than I ever had before, which turns out to be much more physically pleasureable than lower levels of arousal. Orgasm just doesn't seem to be something my body wants to perform on its own(probably wouldn't be able to figure it out with others either, I'm not to bothered by this though )

To use a food analogy, since we seem to gravitate to that around here, it's like you're craving a really well-sauteed mushroom dish with bread stuffing and someone says 'just go eat a raw mushroom, it's easier and less work and not as messy.'

This analogy made me so hungry that I decided to take a dinner break halfway through reading this thread.

I don't really understand the apparent necessity of sex as a form of bonding, but I accept that for some people it's there.

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m4rble

One thing I don't get though is if the only reason partnered sex is better than masturbation is because people like the intimacy, why do people have sex with people they obviously don't care about the emotional well-being of. I understand that the sensations themselves might be different and another person's physical presence might arouse someone- but having abusive/destructive sex for these reasons seems not only incredibly wrong but unbelievably purposeless. I suppose I might get it on an intellectual level, but it's something I just can't wrap my mind around.

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Snao Cone

It's not always intimacy with the person that makes sex mentally better for many people. There are factors like the thrill, or trying something different. Some people get off on diving into things that are, as you put it so well, "incredibly wrong" and "unbelievably purposeless". Add to that the physiological differences of how people experience stimulation (e.g. some women can orgasm from vaginal intercourse).

I've done a fair share of things knowing they're not wise, and I've known a few people who have behaved similarly about sex.

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Ace of Amethysts

*thinks about this subject*

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Telecaster68
having abusive/destructive sex

Casual sex is generally not abusive or destructive, it's recreational more than emotional, that's all. Abusive sex could equally be in a relationship with someone you care about, as that's how abusive relationships work.

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Serran

One thing I don't get though is if the only reason partnered sex is better than masturbation is because people like the intimacy, why do people have sex with people they obviously don't care about the emotional well-being of. I understand that the sensations themselves might be different and another person's physical presence might arouse someone- but having abusive/destructive sex for these reasons seems not only incredibly wrong but unbelievably purposeless. I suppose I might get it on an intellectual level, but it's something I just can't wrap my mind around.

What are you defining as abusive/destructive sex?

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m4rble

One thing I don't get though is if the only reason partnered sex is better than masturbation is because people like the intimacy, why do people have sex with people they obviously don't care about the emotional well-being of. I understand that the sensations themselves might be different and another person's physical presence might arouse someone- but having abusive/destructive sex for these reasons seems not only incredibly wrong but unbelievably purposeless. I suppose I might get it on an intellectual level, but it's something I just can't wrap my mind around.

What are you defining as abusive/destructive sex?

It could be, for example, if someone gets angry or violent if they don't get sex. (Pan said her ex would break things if he didn't get sex- hope she doesn't mind me mentioning that here)

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Serran

Ah. Well. My ex would get cranky when he didn't get sex, because the frustration and rejection would turn to stress, which turned to easily angered. However, sex out of "OK, fine, lets have sex so you'll stop being a jerk and biting my head off about every thing" never satisfied him either, since it wasn't really the sex he wanted/desired. Though, it was slightly better for him than no sex.

However, abusive people tend to ... like the power they can get as much as any activity. So, there are a lot of layers as to why they do anything. And it'll vary by the person. You'd have to look into the psychology behind abuse, of which there are many articles written.

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