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Yangster

We should be clear that there are many significant differences between Adolf Hitler and Donald Trump. People often liken them to be something like clones, yet they are anything but.

Hitler was born from a modest background. Trump was born into riches. Hitler fought and served in one of the bloodiest wars of all time. Trump is a veteran of no war. Hitler's side lost and had enormous penalties imposed on it, creating the very understandable perception in his mind that Germans faced an existential threat from a global community of aggressors. Trump has lived a pampered life in a country that has enjoyed relative peace for at least a century, with no major battles or invasions occurring on our soil. Hitler believed something needed to be done to rescue the German people and set his mind to that. Trump is a businessman and a self-promoter with no apparent sense of a cause.

Even where there are similarities, differences abound. Both Hitler and Trump have scapegoated racial minorities. Trump does not really take it to the same level, though. Hitler specifically stated in his autobiography his views of the racial superiority of the Aryans. Trump simply says that illegal immigrants, mainly Mexican ones, are bringing problems to America. In other cases, though, he will attest to his ability to associate and be friendly with Mexicans in general, just not illegal immigrants. He says, "I love Mexican people; Mexican people love me." Hitler never said and never would have said, after deriding Jewish people, "I love Jews; Jews love me!"

Hitler was also open in his desire to acquire more territory for Germany. Trump does not want to invade and conquer Mexico. Yes, Trump is vigorous in his desire to destroy ISIS, but this alone is a reasonable goal that is shared by virtually every political figure right now, both American and international. Yes, he would bar Muslims from entering America until ISIS is defeated, but this is not quite the same as Hitler's plan to remove and later eradicate the Jews.

Where I think Trump is actually most like Hitler is in his willingness to use torture and commit other war crimes just to defeat ISIS, things that would almost certainly violate the Geneva Conventions, which were created because of what Hitler and the Nazis did in World War II. That is the strongest link, but the most seldom discussed, in my view.

Keep in mind, I am not endorsing anything Trump says or does. He will be a bad president if elected, but I feel that the comparisons to Hitler fall short, and I think comparisons should match to a certain extent.

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Guest

No. Trump is not Hitler.

Hitler was a National Socialist. Trump is a capitalist.

But referring to Hitler as a national socialists as the difference between trump and hitler needs more detail into what Hitler's politics of national socialism entailed.

Indeed. Back in 1920s and 30s Germany, "socialism" was a very positively charged buzzword. The Nazis were smart enough to include it in the name of their party in order to appeal to more voters. There were very few things actually socialist about their party program in any meaningful sense of the word... and please remember that communism, the "big brother" of socialism, was decried by them as a "Jewish abomination", and Soviet Russia was their ideological enemy (yes, Hitler and Stalin managed to make a short-lived non-agression-pact over the smoldering ruins of Poland... but it was a pact which Hitler famously broke not all that soon afterwards, just to catch Stalin unaware of the invasion he had already firmly planned in when he agreed to the pact).

Think of it like if in today's US, there would be a party who is intent on crushing civil liberties left and right and runs on rampant hate for minorities, but which chose to call itself "American Freedom Party" to make themselves look like nice guys. It's a PR stunt.

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m4rble

No. Trump is not Hitler.

Hitler was a National Socialist. Trump is a capitalist.

But referring to Hitler as a national socialists as the difference between trump and hitler needs more detail into what Hitler's politics of national socialism entailed.

Indeed. Back in 1920s and 30s Germany, "socialism" was a very positively charged buzzword. The Nazis were smart enough to include it in the name of their party in order to appeal to more voters. There were very few things actually socialist about their party program in any meaningful sense of the word... and please remember that communism, the "big brother" of socialism, was decried by them as a "Jewish abomination", and Soviet Russia was their ideological enemy (yes, Hitler and Stalin managed to make a short-lived non-agression-pact over the smoldering ruins of Poland... but it was a pact which Hitler famously broke not all that soon afterwards, just to catch Stalin unaware of the invasion he had already firmly planned in when he agreed to the pact).

Think of it like if in today's US, there would be a party who is intent on crushing civil liberties left and right and runs on rampant hate for minorities, but which chose to call itself "American Freedom Party" to make themselves look like nice guys. It's a PR stunt.

I think it would be likely they would call themselves something like the American Freedom party. Self-given names for these kinds of things are often ironic.

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Asterion Orestes

"Argumentum ad Hitlerum" is usually quite a reach to make.

Someone, however--whom, I don't recall--suggested that Obama was Goebbels reincarnated.

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Sally

"Argumentum ad Hitlerum" is usually quite a reach to make.

Someone, however--whom, I don't recall--suggested that Obama was Goebbels reincarnated.

What will conservatives do when you don't have Obama to complain about?

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Tarfeather

There were very few things actually socialist about their party program in any meaningful sense of the word...

I don't know, as terrible as they were on social issues and foreign policy, in term of economic policy I think they were pretty darn socialist. Intervening into the market economy and making sure everyone gets a job etc. seems pretty socialist to me.

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Midnight Star

In real life I make it a point to never acknowledge comparisons to Hitler. Doing this really trivializes how bad Hitler was.

Besides that there are plenty of real reasons to hate Trump so why is this even necessary? You won't change anyone's mind who doesn't already think like you do with an argument that "Trump is the next Hitler."

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Sally

There were very few things actually socialist about their party program in any meaningful sense of the word...

I don't know, as terrible as they were on social issues and foreign policy, in term of economic policy I think they were pretty darn socialist. Intervening into the market economy and making sure everyone gets a job etc. seems pretty socialist to me.

Everyone had a job because Hitler transformed Germany into a military-buildup economy. It was a dictatorship, not socialism.

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Yangster

There were very few things actually socialist about their party program in any meaningful sense of the word...

I don't know, as terrible as they were on social issues and foreign policy, in term of economic policy I think they were pretty darn socialist. Intervening into the market economy and making sure everyone gets a job etc. seems pretty socialist to me.

That may be socialism. It may just be a form of Keynesianism. It could be many things.

Whatever it is, I don't think economic policy was ever what made the Nazis evil.

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Asterion Orestes

Sally

What will conservatives do when you don't have Obama to complain about?

I seldom, if ever, specifically complain about him here. Conservatives in general have plenty else to bi+¢# about, particularly the feckless GOP leadership without whom BO could not maintain his current importance. Furthermore, if he goes into post-presidential Clintonhood, he'll be around for way too long to come. :angry:

Please understand that I did not originate the proposition about him & Dumb Damn Dolf's propaganda minister, nor am I advancing it. But it makes about as much sense as this thread's original topic.

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Yatogami

https://youtu.be/BuiW_Jagl4U

I found a compilation of Trump predicting everything bad happening in USA since the 80's. This is something you wont see because of corrupt media. If you thought he was joking, watch and learn how sincere he really is.

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Float On

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

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Yatogami

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

Out of context media shilling and herd mindset.

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God of the Forest

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

Out of context media shilling and herd mindset.

Its not always about herd mindset, I don't pay attention to news...I honestly just don't like him because he looks like he went through the amazon, contracted an illness and it forever disfigured him, his hair looks like it came from a Shetland Pony, his mouth looks like he belongs in a lake with people fishing for him and half the shit he says, regardless of the source, is idiotic. No offense Jaaku, I :wub: you

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drjohnhwatson

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

Out of context media shilling and herd mindset.

I mean...I'm pretty sure a lot of people dislike him because of how he dismisses a lot of women just by announcing that they're on their periods or calls them dogs. Or how he mocks people with disabilities. Or how he said that Muslims should be banned from entering the US, be entered into a special database, and carry identification papers. That's not really "media shilling". These are all things he's tweeted or shouted about at various speeches or said in interviews. There's a lot more that he's said that's even worse.

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Yatogami

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

Out of context media shilling and herd mindset.

I mean...I'm pretty sure a lot of people dislike him because of how he dismisses a lot of women just by announcing that they're on their periods or calls them dogs. Or how he mocks people with disabilities. Or how he said that Muslims should be banned from entering the US, be entered into a special database, and carry identification papers. That's not really "media shilling". These are all things he's tweeted or shouted about at various speeches or said in interviews. There's a lot more that he's said that's even worse.

Not quite correct there buddy. First of all, Donald Trump is not a politician. He knows exactly what he is doing when it comes to insulting people. He does it, not to be an asshole, but to make the media only talk about him. It applies to almost all of his controversial statements. He doesn't actually feel that way. If you have at all, seen any of his interviews/things he has done befor he ran for president, you would know.

A temporary immigration ban is something every president has the right to do, and has been done many times befor. It is perfectly within their right to do so. He never said he was going to register them, he wanted the ones coming in to be double checked. Because we have let terrorists in many times in the past due to negligence with immigration. This has even been documented, and discovered on social media. It is not hard to trace them.

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Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte

Let's see...recently he said that he'd debate bernie which is great except he wants 10 million for it...for women's health.

This is the same guy who said that bull about women who have abortions and he knows that bernie doesn't have 10 million lying around to debate him.

This is also a man who is known to never give to charity and his charities...sorry, "charities" tend to be sad excuses for ways to line his own pockets.

So...yea. Mind is not changed. Trump is a jackass.

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ChillaKilla

"He knows exactly what he's doing... He doesn't actually feel that way"

I didn't know we had an AVENite who was so personally close to Donald Trump that he would share his motives with them :P

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drjohnhwatson

Not quite correct there buddy. First of all, Donald Trump is not a politician. He knows exactly what he is doing when it comes to insulting people. He does it, not to be an asshole, but to make the media only talk about him. It applies to almost all of his controversial statements. He doesn't actually feel that way. If you have at all, seen any of his interviews/things he has done befor he ran for president, you would know.

A temporary immigration ban is something every president has the right to do, and has been done many times befor. It is perfectly within their right to do so. He never said he was going to register them, he wanted the ones coming in to be double checked. Because we have let terrorists in many times in the past due to negligence with immigration. This has even been documented, and discovered on social media. It is not hard to trace them.

There's a big difference between a temporary immigration ban and a temporary immigration ban focusing on one set religious group. Imagine if Bernie Sanders said "I want a ban on all Christians coming into the country" or "all Christians should be entered into a registry and carry papers". He was asked if he really wanted databases for Muslims and he said this: "there should be a lot of systems, beyond databases. We should have a lot of systems".

Also why would you want someone who says offensive things just to get media coverage? You do realise that eventually inflammatory comments can come and bite you in the ass, especially if you're running a country, right? Imagine if he said, shit, I don't know. What if he called Kim Jong-Un "a crybaby fatass wimp"? What if he said that just to get media coverage? He didn't mean it! Well guess what--now North Korea is pissed off.

And I feel like he actually does mean it. All he does on Twitter is trash-talk people. He's done it for years. Him doing it then didn't really have any benefit. Also you mean to tell me that all the white supremacists he's RT'd he doesn't actually support--he's just doing it to get media coverage? And what about the people who say they've written negative things about him, like he has tiny hands or he's a "thousandaire" not a million/billionaire, and he sends them stuff in the mail even though they wrote it decades ago. That's only just come out--how did that attract media coverage?

And why would you want negative media coverage? What purpose does that serve?

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Float On

so far from what I've seen, trump is a businessman and intends to approach the debt, which is what I feel is needed at this time.

he does have some policies I don't agree with, but so does every politician ever.

he's not a politician so he isn't as experienced regarding incults - I'm wathching a debate now, and from what I can tell the others are much more subtle about their direct insults than he is, and they slide it in the middle of a speech but he frontloads them all and states them plain as day. and from what I've seen, his insults are as clever in use as the other polititians - all four I'm watching use them to remark on the strength of their policies verses the weakness of the opponent's, so I really don't care to pay any attention to the insults at all.

regarding policy... the four senators I'm watching, the one is complete young and inexperienced, even if his heart were in the best place out of all of them he wouldn't be able to pull through with it. trump may not be a politician but he is a businessman, and his policies are focussed on finance and business on the large scale, which is his strength. he also speaks highly of his ability to get along with people, which is going to be important when interacting with other coutnries. he also seems to be the one most able to listen to opposing viewpoints and change his views if he is convinced to.

I don't love him, but I have the most faith that he'll be able to deliver what he proposes to deliver, out of the four senators I've watched.

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Hobbes∞

Pretending to be a world class asshole to vulnerable people in order garner constant media coverage in the hopes that hype will lend you incessant publicity is still actually being a world class asshole.

I could break a bottle and glass someone in the flank, and I'm sure the confession that I was only pretending to be a violent sociopath in order to strike up a conversation and makes friends will do as much to ease the pain they are feeling as a nice bowl of hot chicken soup.

And the people he is inciting to hatred and bigotry certainly aren't being dangerous and harmful individuals for attention.

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Float On

Not quite correct there buddy. First of all, Donald Trump is not a politician. He knows exactly what he is doing when it comes to insulting people. He does it, not to be an asshole, but to make the media only talk about him. It applies to almost all of his controversial statements. He doesn't actually feel that way. If you have at all, seen any of his interviews/things he has done befor he ran for president, you would know.

A temporary immigration ban is something every president has the right to do, and has been done many times befor. It is perfectly within their right to do so. He never said he was going to register them, he wanted the ones coming in to be double checked. Because we have let terrorists in many times in the past due to negligence with immigration. This has even been documented, and discovered on social media. It is not hard to trace them.

There's a big difference between a temporary immigration ban and a temporary immigration ban focusing on one set religious group. Imagine if Bernie Sanders said "I want a ban on all Christians coming into the country" or "all Christians should be entered into a registry and carry papers". He was asked if he really wanted databases for Muslims and he said this: "there should be a lot of systems, beyond databases. We should have a lot of systems".

Also why would you want someone who says offensive things just to get media coverage? You do realise that eventually inflammatory comments can come and bite you in the ass, especially if you're running a country, right? Imagine if he said, shit, I don't know. What if he called Kim Jong-Un "a crybaby fatass wimp"? What if he said that just to get media coverage? He didn't mean it! Well guess what--now North Korea is pissed off.

And I feel like he actually does mean it. All he does on Twitter is trash-talk people. He's done it for years. Him doing it then didn't really have any benefit. Also you mean to tell me that all the white supremacists he's RT'd he doesn't actually support--he's just doing it to get media coverage? And what about the people who say they've written negative things about him, like he has tiny hands or he's a "thousandaire" not a million/billionaire, and he sends them stuff in the mail even though they wrote it decades ago. That's only just come out--how did that attract media coverage?

And why would you want negative media coverage? What purpose does that serve?

I don't know much about his intended policy regarding imigration blocking, but it sounds like he wants to generally tighten up on imigration. until I saw more info, I wouldn't assume that his in-the-moment claim he'd lock down on muslim imigration would necessarily be limited to only that, and TBH it sounds like he wants to make changes to the manners in which we're currently interacting with foreign countries, and if we assume by "muslim immigration" he is talking more broadly about the immigration from the countries we were recently at war with, I think it makes sense. but right now I am only making assumptions regarding this topic, so I am only speculating.

regarding twitter - if his public career has been for a long time throwing insults around at anybody, I'd only expect that to stay the same. I don't approve of that kind of approach, but so far what I've seen of his speeches, they aren't exactly the kind of insult that I find uncalled for. they are more like the kind of insult that is unecessary, but has meaning in its use. I still wish he wouldn't, he'd say more plainly what he wants to say, and speak more about policy than about the strengths and weaknesses of individuals or groups of people, but ultimately his stating his oppinions regarding individuals and groups is not relevant to his experience with business and resources regarding enacting policies and etc.

I am only making a first impression at this time, but he feels like the kind of "asshole" that ultimately gets along with the people he talks to.

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Float On

I took a look at his tweets over the past three days and his worst was:

The protesters in New Mexico were thugs who were flying the Mexican flag. The rally inside was big and beautiful, but outside, criminals!

which, tbh, isn't really that bad. the insults are representing a compressed story of his opinion on illegal immigration. ultimately an uncalled for mannerism, but functionally meaningful.

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Pumpkin Spice Eggnog Latte

I took a look at his tweets over the past three days and his worst was:

The protesters in New Mexico were thugs who were flying the Mexican flag. The rally inside was big and beautiful, but outside, criminals!

which, tbh, isn't really that bad. the insults are representing a compressed story of his opinion on illegal immigration. ultimately an uncalled for mannerism, but functionally meaningful.

People can delete tweets and you aren't looking at some of the tweets he's posted even earlier. He's a bully and a jerk, plain and simple

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Sally

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

Out of context media shilling and herd mindset.

No. I've watched his campaign speeches and rally speeches on TV and read his tweets. That means I've watched and listened to him actually saying things and read what he's saying. Are you trying to say that we shouldn't listen to or read him?

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ChillaKilla

Yes, Sally. We should just blindly believe what his supporters say because obviously forming our own opinions means we've been "brainwashed by the liberal media" or something :P

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Yatogami

One of Trump's greatest skills is negotiation. This is what America needs the most right now. If you actually watched the video, you will realize quickly that Donald is more about the financial crisis than he is worried about immigration. He is the ONLY one suited for this task. He is the ONLY one that isn't a puppet, and bought out by lobbyists. Even if he is so called racist and misogynist like you claim him to be. Are you just going to let Hillary Clinton win? Or someone who actually wants to help the country? Even if you disagree with half of what he says. He is a much better option that Clinton, and you cannot deny this.

Also, everyone is so against his so called "Racist" remarks, but what harm will it do in the long run? Absolutely nothing. Nothing bad will happen at all. Unless you are one of those crazy people who think he is going to start rounding up and executing people as if we were a communistic country and not a Republic.

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Float On

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

Out of context media shilling and herd mindset.

No. I've watched his campaign speeches and rally speeches on TV and read his tweets. That means I've watched and listened to him actually saying things and read what he's saying. Are you trying to say that we shouldn't listen to or read him?

if you may, could you provide me with a vid of one of these speeches? I try searching for vids on youtube but mostly I find edits. or people talking about him, but not videos of him.... :unsure:

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Lost247365

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/05/trump-scotus-pick-would-criminalize-gay-sex/

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/trump-suggests-overturning-same-sex-marriage.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-marriage-equality_us_56af63c8e4b00b033aafb496

Sorry but no. Even if he is better than the average republican on LGBTQ issues (and I do think he is better than the average republican on those issues), his SCotUS nominees would be RW reactionaries on that issue.

If they are in anyway shape or form associated with the Republican party, I want no part of them.

I am not never Trump, but rather I am NEVER REPUBLICAN. NEVER RELIGIOUS RIGHT. NEVER SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE.

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Sally

so I mean like.. I'm clueless. what is the reason people dislike him?

Out of context media shilling and herd mindset.

No. I've watched his campaign speeches and rally speeches on TV and read his tweets. That means I've watched and listened to him actually saying things and read what he's saying. Are you trying to say that we shouldn't listen to or read him?

if you may, could you provide me with a vid of one of these speeches? I try searching for vids on youtube but mostly I find edits. or people talking about him, but not videos of him.... :unsure:

Why should I do that work for you? I've watched them as they've been shown, live, on TV -- just as most people in the US have who are interested in this presidential campaign. The tweets I surely don't think you'd have difficulty finding.

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