Master Trump Thread

[Sally]

1 hour ago, Jusey1 said:

I didn't really want to get into a huge debate about this. However, I will say this. There as been number of times where Hillary has attempted to buy her way up toward becoming President, especially starting back at 2012, instead of earning it. On top of that, there is also the fact that the FBI was investigating her emails and what not during the election due to potential corruption issues, and this is mostly just the recent stuff about her attempting to become President. There has been many more instances throughout the years, including moments from back in the day when Bill Clinton was in office and she was using her position then for self-gain...

Sorry if I'm not the best person to talk about this subject. I was someone who voted for 3rd party as I hated both main candidates and I never truly went through everything. Just learn what I did based on evidence provided to me by friends and family.

If you don't want to (and apparently can't) talk about this subject, then you shouldn't make claims that things have been "proven".  

[daveb]

7 hours ago, Jusey1 said:

investigating

She was investigated a number of times and was never charged with anything. Trump is currently under investigation and it's unknown at this point as to whether he will be proven guilty of anything. Just because an investigation happened is not proof of any wrongdoing, but it can be said that once an investigation is concluded what it's conclusion was. So charges against Hillary are known to be unfounded, while charges against Trump are still up in the air.

 

Anyway, reference to Clinton (Bill or Hillary) is just another case of the right wing's tactic of "what aboutism". It's an attempt to deflect from the failings of their man, Trump. They fall back on that when they don't have any good answers about things he says and does. But you've already made up your mind that Hillary is the greater evil, so I don't expect you will listen to the truth.

 

In Trump's world there are alternative facts (anything he wants to be true, but isn't) and fake news (anything he doesn't want to be true, but is). Sad.

[Sally]

Hillary was never President and is not running for any office again.  Bill was President 20 years ago and is not running for any office again.  It's time to let the Clintons go.   Trump has now been President for about 18 months.   Talk about him.  

[Homer]

13 hours ago, Jusey1 said:

This is mostly because Hillary Clinton has been proven to be a very corrupted and selfish individual who is using her position for personal goals, and some of the things she wanted to do as President had the potential to harm America as a whole and even have the potential of starting World War 3, which I want to avoid at all costs...

In what way is that different to Doughnald?

[Yatogami]

I love how everyone just totally forgot the scandal with the FBI, that Comey covered for Hillary. Who is now also under investigation. Oh, but thats not a big deal apparently.

 

The Mueller investigation is also a joke. Its just the Democrats trying to give hope to their voters. Why else would they refuse to present their evidence? Its because there is none. Its just a way to distract.

 

@Jusey1 don't bother debating these people. Protect your moderate viewpoint.

[Skycaptain]

2 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

 

 

Whether or not the actions were illegal, they were scumbaggery. 

 

That's hardly a unique allegation against heads of government 

[daveb]

Doesn't have to be unique to be bad or wrong.  

[Nidwin]

I'm wondering if the Supreme Court is going to overturn roe v wade with Kavanaugh replacing Kennedy.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nidwin said:

I'm wondering if the Supreme Court is going to overturn roe v wade with Kavanaugh replacing Kennedy.

Probably, yes. However, I assume that Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will be removed from office when this nightmare finally ends. I know they are currently supposed to be "lifetime appointments", but I'm pretty certain there will be a hard reset once the regime is toppled. Including massive changes to the Constitution, and likely the abolition of the Republican party in its entirety. I doubt Trump appointees will be allowed to remain on SCOTUS, regardless what the current Constitution may say.

 

You guys are in the situation we went through in the 1930s and 40s. I reckon you'll end up going through what we did in '45-'49, too,

 

Don't lose hope. Germany survived Hitler. I'm positive that the US will survive Trump, even though the worst is probably still to come.

[daveb]

3 hours ago, Nidwin said:

I'm wondering if the Supreme Court is going to overturn roe v wade with Kavanaugh replacing Kennedy.

It's a definite possibility. All they would need is for some case to come up to the Supreme Court.

Another thing that could be cause for concern is Kavanaugh's apparent belief that the president is above the law or shouldn't be bothered by such stuff (in spite of the role he himself played in the investigation of President Bill Clinton).

 

Only time will tell, and we'll have to see how the confirmation hearings go. Let the process run its course and if he gets confirmed hopefully people will see what their votes can do. Everyone should know the president sometimes gets to appoint judges and Supreme Court justices, and take that into account when they choose a president. (of course, the Senate can block nominees, too, and voters should take that into account when they choose senators)

[Clumsy Fairy]

What is the reason that people feel that Trump is such a bed president. Other than the fact he's a bit of a dick, I haven't really seen anything he's done that's such a disaster for America.

[Sally]

6 hours ago, Mysticus Insanus said:

Don't lose hope. Germany survived Hitler. 

Hi, Myst.

 

Germany as a nation survived Hitler; many Germans did not.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sally said:

Hi, Myst.

 

Germany as a nation survived Hitler; many Germans did not.  

I know, obviously. And I'm afraid there will be a considerable number of lives lost due to Trump, too. Nobody knows how many have been lost already, in the camps on the Southern border... and obviously, even one is one too many.

 

I pray that you'll manage to oust him long, long before that number rises into the thousands, let alone millions. And, God willing, that you remove him by peaceful democratic means, instead of a civil war.

[Clumsy Fairy]

I really don't care if the president is a nice person or not. Most people who rise to power are not exactly pleasant people. I think they should be judged on their result etc. I just don't see any of his policies or decisions are any where near worthy of the scare mongering, and rhetoric that is banded about. I'm rather relieved at the lack of war drumming coming out of this white house, and it's quite nice to have someone who just says what he thinks. Sure I wouldn't want to have a beer with the guy, and I don't agree with many of his policies, but all of those things can be dealt with in a reasonable political way. The way many talk about him though one would think he is about to sell off the USA to Russia, or stumble, and trip on the nuclear button. Didn't the guy just calm down the VERY long standing North Korean issue some what?

 

I just think the whole panic, and over exaggeration to be unproductive, and detrimental to a real political opposition. You just don't change peoples minds on policies by screaming "HE'S THE ANTI CHRIST", or other silly names. 

[Clumsy Fairy]

Yeah and Gandhi was a bit of a pervy fucker he did a whole heap of grabbing them <you know where> <grin> Mandela Jees... He was no man of peace that's for sure, there was a damned good reason he got put in prison. Oh, and lets not even go there with Che Guevara my god he killed a lot of people just for not being communist enough.

[Cimmerian]

On 7/7/2018 at 11:23 AM, daveb said:

What makes you think "this generation" is more racked with anxiety and depression than any other generation?

I've heard that claim too among psychologists---or at least that there have been increases in those, I'm not positive if there's proof for "most of any generation" but this page links a few studies that might be of interest if you want to check out studies that have looked at comparing over generations: (here).

[daveb]

42 minutes ago, Cimmerian said:

I've heard that claim too among psychologists---or at least that there have been increases in those, I'm not positive if there's proof for "most of any generation" but this page links a few studies that might be of interest if you want to check out studies that have looked at comparing over generations: (here).

Thanks for the info! It's good that the article lists some primary sources of actual studies and not just opinion pieces.

 

The article links to several studies that I can only read the abstracts for, so I'll have to leave those out of my discussion because there isn't enough for me to go on. Of the few studies I can read in full (although can only understand in part  ), some don't seem to really support nor deny the statement that later generations have it worse than earlier ones. And the couple that do seem to say that to some degree (both by some of the same authors/researchers) make some statements that make me wonder if they have some biases or pre-conceived ideas. So I'm not entirely convinced. Of course, I am not a doctor or professional in that area so I could be way off. Still, there may be enough there to support the idea, so I will keep an open mind. I can say that as an older retired white guy who made a good living I don't have a lot of stress in my life.  (I'm also always wary about older generations making statements about younger generations and/or about how much better things used to be  )

 

(but that part of the discussion was so far back I forget what is was about  )

Went back and looked. Ah, yes, Malum's contention that this generation is racked with depression and anxiety and that that is due to not having 2 parents fully engaged with their children. Feel free to correct me if I am mis-characterizing that. (maybe this part of the discussion should be moved to a new thread, since it isn't about Trump?)

[pickles.]

On 7/10/2018 at 2:27 PM, daveb said:

(I'm also always wary about older generations making statements about younger generations and/or about how much better things used to be  )

Ditto.

 

As to anxiety and depression, perhaps as the stigma has lessened people have felt more comfortable to talk about it and to seek help.  Over the years I have noticed more of a change in societal awareness than in people's behavior or emotions.  

[Yatogami]

 Oh gee, someone posted evidence of my "opinion", and only then is it taken seriously. As if its difficult to Google things, before you tell people they are wrong. 😫

[Yatogami]

11 hours ago, Mysticus Insanus said:

Probably, yes. However, I assume that Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will be removed from office when this nightmare finally ends. I know they are currently supposed to be "lifetime appointments", but I'm pretty certain there will be a hard reset once the regime is toppled. Including massive changes to the Constitution, and likely the abolition of the Republican party in its entirety. I doubt Trump appointees will be allowed to remain on SCOTUS, regardless what the current Constitution may say.

 

You guys are in the situation we went through in the 1930s and 40s. I reckon you'll end up going through what we did in '45-'49, too,

 

Don't lose hope. Germany survived Hitler. I'm positive that the US will survive Trump, even though the worst is probably still to come.

I have to ask, are you being 100% serious?

[daveb]

6 hours ago, G0D said:

What is the reason that people feel that Trump is such a bed president.

I don't mean to pick on you, but I thought this was a funny typo.  

 

As for things he has done (or tried to do) that make me think he is a bad president:

His trade wars and other policies that have cost me money in my 401k by the effect those have had on the stock market (those trade wars may very well end up hurting his base as much as or more than anyone else)

His separation of children from their parents (with apparently no real plan on how to reunite them) - I don't care if they are illegal immigrants

His tax bill that cut taxes for the wealthier Americans while at the same time causing the deficit to grow significantly

His praise for despots and dictators and words of disdain and contempt for our closest allies (and it's not just words; it's diplomacy)

His environmental policies

The nepotism and cronyism that is rampant in his administration

His policies that benefit wealthy donors and corporations over the middle class and working class

His poor choices for all sorts of offices (if they weren't so unsuited for their jobs because of their lack of knowledge they'd be more dangerous, as he seems to have knack for picking people who are anathema to the agencies he appoints them to)

Ethics violations (by him and by too many of his appointees)

His support for white supremacists and racists and other hate groups, which figuratively gives them the imprimatur of the office of president

And those are just a few of the more public-facing issues that make me think he is a bad president. There are also plenty of things that make me think he is a bad businessman and a bad person, too.

 

There are plenty of people and experts (in things like politics, history, presidents, and the like) on all sides who think he is a bad president, and possibly the worst ever. The reasons are almost limitless. 

[daveb]

3 minutes ago, Malum said:

 Oh gee, someone posted evidence of my "opinion", and only then is it taken seriously. As if its difficult to Google things, before you tell people they are wrong. 😫

You are wrong about that.

[Yatogami]

Just now, daveb said:

You are wrong about that.

Then what is your exchange with @Cimmerian if not some leeway in that old conversation?

[daveb]

Just now, Malum said:

Then what is your exchange with @Cimmerian if not some leeway in that old conversation?

It's not evidence of your opinion.

[Yatogami]

1 minute ago, daveb said:

It's not evidence of your opinion.

They posted studies, to back up my claim about an increase in anxiety etc in the current generation. 

 

Ill admit I glanced over the post, and didn't read the studies myself. Im pretty lazy ^_^, and on mobile phone.

[daveb]

At most some of the studies might suggest that there has been an increase in anxiety (but some don't as far as I can tell, and even the ones that seem to indicate there is seem iffy about it). They certainly don't offer any evidence for the rest of what you said in relation to that assertion. But like I said above, this is all getting off track from the thread's subject, Trump. If it does turn out to be true that there is some real increase (and not just increased awareness/reportage/treatment options, etc.) does that mean Trump is involved somehow? Is he causing it, helping with seeing people get access to treatment, helping by reducing the things that cause it, or what? If it's not relevant to Trump in some way what does it have to do with this thread?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, daveb said:

There are plenty of people and experts (in things like politics, history, presidents, and the like) on all sides who think he is a bad president, and possibly the worst ever. The reasons are almost limitless. 

The only one even in the same ballpark of horrible is Andrew Jackson, due to the Trail of Tears. I would see every other president I know the least bit about as an improvement over Trump.

 

Yes, that includes such "dignitaries" as Nixon, Bush II, and Buchanan. I know. All three were better presidents than Trump, IMO.

[The Terrible Travis]

On 7/8/2018 at 1:12 PM, Jusey1 said:

I also generally don't get the whole "racist/sexiest" thing that people put on Trump... From what I've seen of him, he isn't either.

Then perhaps you haven't been looking at him very closely.

 

Trump discriminated against black people in his rental properties, said a judge couldn't do his job properly because he was Mexican, said Nazis were "very fine people", and pardoned a sheriff convicted for racial profiling.

[pickles.]

1 hour ago, Mysticus Insanus said:

The only one even in the same ballpark of horrible is Andrew Jackson, due to the Trail of Tears.

And Trump loves Jackson!

[Skycaptain]

He's now talking about pulling out of NATO, partly because of dissatisfaction over European defence spending, and the trade issue. Hilarious considering he's the one who created the current squabble over trade tariffs.