Master Trump Thread

[LeChat]

I don't know what "un-American" means from that; it could mean anything, depending on the subjective point of a person's view, (it's confusing and difficult to understand what religious verses mean when there doesn't seem to be a unanimous consensus among religious people of the same faith, who argue over what different Bible versus mean.)

 

In the U.S., there are many different types of people, who come from different immigrant/ethnic backgrounds, who have different religions, speak different languages, etc., and America also includes several different countries in South America, where other languages are spoken and other regional customs are practiced. So, there isn't only one way to be or not be American and others might have different views on what it means to be "un-American." My immigrant relatives and I weren't given a rulebook or told that being an American means that everyone has to have only a certain, specific set of beliefs. 

[RoseGoesToYale]

1 hour ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

I don't know what "un-American" means from that; it could mean anything, depending on the subjective point of a person's view

In this case, I intended it to mean any person Trump sees as not being American enough to be in America, namely immigrants from certain countries. I parodied the inscription of the Statue of Liberty, but as if Trump were the statue greeting immigrants.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, G0D said:

 I see religion as an illness. 

 

i have it on good authority that zeus has syphilis 

[vmdraco]

16 hours ago, G0D said:

I see religion as an illness. 

You can say you don't........ believe in yourself

 

 

I'm so sorry

[Skycaptain]

Back on topic 

 

I see he's now stuck his two cents into the Brexit negotiations again, and been given the diplomatic equivalent of FO. 

[Sally]

11 minutes ago, Skycaptain said:

Back on topic 

 

I see he's now stuck his two cents into the Brexit negotiations again, and been given the diplomatic equivalent of FO. 

He'll ignore that, because to him, everything is his business.   Never his fault, but always his business.  

[Clumsy Fairy]

6 hours ago, vmdraco said:

You can say you don't........ believe in yourself

 

 

I'm so sorry

I know... It's almost like...... It's... It's a joke... 

 

<salutes>

<disappears in a puff of smoke>

[vmdraco]

7 hours ago, G0D said:

It's... It's a joke... 

And you literally call yourself God, the joke wrote itself   

 

*goes back to my business and not participating in the topic at hand*

[Clumsy Fairy]

1 hour ago, vmdraco said:

And you literally call yourself God, the joke wrote itself   

 

*goes back to my business and not participating in the topic at hand*

<--- Likes that!

[Guest]

On 11/25/2018 at 10:01 AM, The Bookworm said:

Trump has absolutely no control over who supports or endorses him, but he does need to be adamant about eradicating this racist cancer from the party.

Why do so, and alienate a significant portion of his base?

 

Silence is acceptance. He clearly doesn't have a problem with any portion of his base. 

 

On 11/24/2018 at 11:01 PM, G0D said:

I can't speak of Trump supporters as I am not one, however I really don't understand why people think that Trump or that all of their supporters are some how 'White Supremacists'.

Its easier to sway someone to vote against another, when you can shame them into it. 

 

The news do it, too. Dare to say you like Trump on national TV and guaranteed you will be made to look like a stereotypical racist or have implied. 

[Clumsy Fairy]

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Why do so, and alienate a significant portion of his base?

 

Silence is acceptance. He clearly doesn't have a problem with any portion of his base. 

 

Its easier to sway someone to vote against another, when you can shame them into it. 

 

The news do it, too. Dare to say you like Trump on national TV and guaranteed you will be made to look like a stereotypical racist or have implied. 

From what I have seen Nor Trump, not ANYONE can eject people from the party. Do remember that the party really didn't want trump as it's candidate. 

 

Again, and again, and again, I keep asking PLEASE can someone complain about a policy Anything I don't care, just SOMETHING we can debate sensibly, something that is actually true. Please people, I wan't to hate the guy so much, but I just haven't seen anything but exaggeration, or blatant misrepresentation. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, G0D said:

Please people, I wan't to hate the guy so much, but I just haven't seen anything but exaggeration, or blatant misrepresentation. 

The reality is that the news haven't needed to.

 

Case in point. Border agents under Trump's administration using tear gas on migrants storming the border. Some news outlets turned this, into Trump using tear gas on women and children, ignoring the vast majority of adult males in the mix. You then realize the news aren't trying to inform you about his administration.

 

Especially so, when tear gas use under Obama's presidency was used regularly. Monthly even, at some point.

 

The news keep stating he's constantly lying. But lying by omission, is still lying when deliberately painting a picture without the full scale of available information in it.

 

You doing so, and any of his base checking the back stories, just feeds into their supporting him with even more.

 

So its no shock nor surprise to me, why people still support and believe in him.

[Clumsy Fairy]

I just saw something on 'Hotbox' and replied to it, and I need to go back there and put this very same point to them.

 

The complaint was that "Neo-Nazis" were standing for the Republican party. Now I am really glad that my first recourse is to go and try and make head or tail of the fact before proffering an opinion. I really REALLY   - R E A L L Y -  Expected this to be yet another hyper-exaggeration. The fact that it is in all probability true in my mind - R E A L L Y - Shows the danger of calling everyone you don't like a "Nazi". COME ON guy's. PLEASE especially young people. PLEASE fight for truth, and please avoid peddling false, exaggerated, disingenuous stories. I KEEP saying this, and it's becoming really fucking boring. PLEASE if you post something, check the facts, just google shit, and look at a wide range of media. Don't you want to beat these people? You don't need to spout lies, and propaganda, you don't need to sink the the level of trying to personally attack Trump, or his band of merry men. Argue the policy, argue facts, but please stop just reading something you see on the internet and take it as fact. It only takes a few searches to figure out it's BS, and then, lets have a thread calling out shit news organisations, who lie to you to get you angry, and that live of your fears. 

 

I HATE TRUMP... I HATE LIES ABOUT TRUMP MORE !

[Tanwen]

I will admit, I had to look up them meaning of 'decontextulaized' but the reports of tear gas being used monthly under Obama are not as they would appear. Smoke bombs and pepper spay are no the same thing as tear gas.

https://www.truthorfiction.com/did-obama-administration-fire-teargas-border-monthly/

[Clumsy Fairy]

1 hour ago, Tanwen said:

I will admit, I had to look up them meaning of 'decontextulaized' but the reports of tear gas being used monthly under Obama are not as they would appear. Smoke bombs and pepper spay are no the same thing as tear gas.

https://www.truthorfiction.com/did-obama-administration-fire-teargas-border-monthly/

Does no one else not ask the question, with terrorism and all the rest of it, doesn't a country have a right, no, not a right, a DUTY to make it's borders secure and uphold the law, nationally, and locally, in order to protect the nation? If you have an entry system, then aren't people supposed to use it? You know there are words for what happens when large groups of foreign nationals infiltrate your border, one is called "war", and the other is "smuggling". I think you will find most of Europe is baffled by the idea of people en masse forcing illegal entry in to your country, and your asking your government not to care. I don't want to be funny here, but in many countries if you stormed a boarder, you are likely to get shot.

 

If you want most of your unskilled country men to be out of a job because someone illegally there doesn't have to have the overheads of a national to do the job, then just ask your representative to let everyone in and who cares where they are from. Do it.. Look at the UK. It was the only country not to have restrictions on former soviet countries from working in the UK, and look how it ends up. The British people are not racist. The people coming to the UK are the same race. People in the UK are not on the whole hard line anything, British people are used to dealing with different cultures, and languages.It's in our bones, we love it when foreign people try to fit in. Most British people you would speak with would describe central Europeans as being polite, and hard working, and for the most part they are. They are scared of the UK system because they know how outsiders would be treated in their own countries. (I was one of these people). Yeah I have actually experienced "discrimination" It's VERY annoying, and frightening.

 

Sorry... Back to where I was. At the boarders of the EU, there are big fences, and walls, and lines of barbed wire, and if great hoards of Russians turned up wanting to storm in to the UK, I really don't think anyone in Europe would say "Oh just open the doors". They sort of tried it in Germany, and that's going well (not)... 

 

I get the wanting to be nice to people, and a desire to help people out, but how about you take a look at the povety in yout own country before you toss them aside for poor people in other countries. If anything you owe your own people the charity first, cos where the fuck are they supposed to go? When you have your own citizen housed, clothed, fed, and with medical care, its THEN you start fixing the rest of the world.. You ignore your own people at your peril. It;s just wrong to ignore your own poverty in favour of someone eases. 

[Sally]

5 hours ago, G0D said:

If you want most of your unskilled country men to be out of a job because someone illegally there doesn't have to have the overheads of a national to do the job, then just ask your representative to let everyone in and who cares where they are from.

The people who do the unskilled work in the US are immigrants from Mexico and Mesoamerica, not US citizens.   That's pretty much tradition in this country.  Most of them are illegal.  Many employers in farming, construction, and restaurants complain when illegal immigrants can't come into the country because they have no workers.  The employers  like illegals because they can pay them less than minimum wage and know they won't complain, because they're afraid of being deported.  They come in and work those jobs in order to send back money to their even-poorer families at home.  That will continue until their home countries support them with well-paying jobs.  

[Clumsy Fairy]

4 hours ago, Sally said:

he people who do the unskilled work in the US are immigrants from Mexico and Mesoamerica, not US citizens. 

YES AND THAT is the Problem!!! What do all the unskilled citizens do for money and health care? Or are you REALLY telling me that ALL Americans are skilled workers? Is the reason that poor people, unskilled people are voting for what seems like nationalist cause? This is the very place that the far left agenda falls to bits because somewhere in your system you need jobs for your own unskilled workers, and you can't expect them to live on a wage for people who are not paying taxes. 

[Clumsy Fairy]

I have a factory making do-hickies,,, Do I get in Americans to do the work? Fuck no, I get those cheap illegals...I am sorry what makes me laugh about all this is that the left is promoting illegal acts, and not only illegal workers, but supporting companies to act against the law, etc etc, and they get paid less because the companies are breaking the law... Where on earth do you say "Hey" Why are their parts of the law making apparatus that is condoning illegal activity... 

 

This is the most bonkers and short sighted, mother of all utter fuckups, and layering illegality, on illigality, all trying to solve an issue it should NOT have because people should obay laws, and charity should be fucking charity... I can't actually believe these are the polices of real adults... It seems like the biggest part of the sub par workforce is actually dreaming this shit up... It's a JOKE !!!

 

For Clarity's sake here. I am laughing, and befuddled by the policy, I am not attacking anyone who thinks this policy is well y'know a way to operate the economy of the worlds richest country. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Tanwen said:

Smoke bombs and pepper spay are no the same thing as tear gas.

I read a few articles about this. If the facts are wrong, I retract my statement on the volumes and types of tools used by the Obama administration to disperse crowds.

 

With that said, I think a smoke bomb would to me be the only justifiable use of force where one party could look down at the other.

 

Tear gas, while different, is still considered a non lethal irritant. Symptoms are different, sure, but if you've ever experienced either I can assure you won't wish you had been hit by the other.

 

Never in the history of humanity, has someone who had been pepper sprayed, wished they had gotten tear gassed, instead. Either option, will suck for women, kids and anyone under their effects. Ever been pepper sprayed? It truly sucks.

 

Hate to say it, but when you have aggressive crowds rushing the border and allegedly assaulting border patrol agents with rocks, you sort of lose the right to political correctness, and deserve use of non lethal force to be used against you. To me, this is regardless of who is president.

 

Lethal force, unless shots are fired, to me are totally unacceptable.

 

I think lost in all this mix, are the adults, rushing the border with kids in tow. You're choosing to subject your children to this.

 

Its like starting war, and then complaining about the collateral damage.

 

[Clumsy Fairy]

14 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Never in the history of humanity, has someone who had been pepper sprayed, wished they had gotten tear gassed, instead.

Please can I have your children for making this statement..

 

 

 

 

PS.. This is a joke... And is meant to indicate agreement, not to suggest any sexual activity is offered, or requested. 

[Clumsy Fairy]

21 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I read a few articles about this. If the facts are wrong, I retract my statement on the volumes and types of tools used by the Obama administration to disperse crowds.

 

With that said, I think a smoke bomb would to me be the only justifiable use of force where one party could look down at the other.

 

Tear gas, while different, is still considered a non lethal irritant. Symptoms are different, sure, but if you've ever experienced either I can assure you won't wish you had been hit by the other.

 

Never in the history of humanity, has someone who had been pepper sprayed, wished they had gotten tear gassed, instead. Either option, will suck for women, kids and anyone under their effects. Ever been pepper sprayed? It truly sucks.

 

Hate to say it, but when you have aggressive crowds rushing the border and allegedly assaulting border patrol agents with rocks, you sort of lose the right to political correctness, and deserve use of non lethal force to be used against you. To me, this is regardless of who is president.

 

Lethal force, unless shots are fired, to me are totally unacceptable.

 

I think lost in all this mix, are the adults, rushing the border with kids in tow. You're choosing to subject your children to this.

 

Its like starting war, and then complaining about the collateral damage.

 

What would happen if you just through money at them.. I mean literally... make it rain coinage... be a laugh... Stop them needing to work for a living, and solve all the issues of the money the US looses in tax etc... 

[Tanwen]

Were they on the Mexican side of the border or US or in no-man's land in between? If they were still on (in?) Mexican territory, then it could be interpreted as an Act of War.

(Early in the morning and want to go back to bed)

[daveb]

I can't help but wonder why non-Americans who don't even reside in the US get very vehement about this topic? What does it matter to them whether most Americans don't like Trump? 

[Sally]

4 hours ago, G0D said:

YES AND THAT is the Problem!!! What do all the unskilled citizens do for money and health care? Or are you REALLY telling me that ALL Americans are skilled workers? Is the reason that poor people, unskilled people are voting for what seems like nationalist cause? This is the very place that the far left agenda falls to bits because somewhere in your system you need jobs for your own unskilled workers, and you can't expect them to live on a wage for people who are not paying taxes. 

Oh for petes sake, don't expect everyone to give you complete info on the US.  Google; read books; quit lecturing us on what's wrong with our country.  We're quite aware.  

[Clumsy Fairy]

37 minutes ago, daveb said:

I can't help but wonder why non-Americans who don't even reside in the US get very vehement about this topic? What does it matter to them whether most Americans don't like Trump? 

I have genuinely spent longer over this answer than any other. Not because I am unsure of my answer, but because, genuinely, and sincerely out of respect for not just you, but everyone else involved in this discussion I just need to add no colour to this, and I feel the question is....

 

Let me start again. 

 

America is the "World". While America does not directly rule the world, no country really enjoys a future where american policy has no influence or effect. 

 

American foreign policy has been global policy for at least the last 20 years. Sure it is definitely not certain that it's influence will drive global politics inevitably, but for the foreseeable future the world may not dance to Americas tune, but we all know the score.  

 

There are very few areas of world politics that fall without the purview of the american political machinery. So as much as none of us wish to be party to American domestic policy, we steal our gaze away at our peril. 

 

For people like me who have experienced first hand soviet influence, and the other great force in the global political makeup, we have been gratified that either Trump got in to power by soviet interference, or his presidency prevailed on its own merits, either way it is preferable to the rhetoric of the Clinton campaign, and the "Hard line" that was proposed for this presidency.

 

Some times the game on the table is not the one you expected, and rather than loose all your money, it's better to feign weakness and retreat than it is to run out fighting.

 

I really didn't want this post to be about conflict or blame, more about knowing when to withdraw. This whole post is why the world cares, and why we all should,.because our leaders have way more than platitudes, or insults at their disposal. We should all care about global politics. Not to the exclusion of domestic policy, but along side it. 

[Clumsy Fairy]

Changed my mind way to tired to judge effect... Ill try again later.
 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, daveb said:

I can't help but wonder why non-Americans who don't even reside in the US get very vehement about this topic? What does it matter to them whether most Americans don't like Trump? 

I can only speak for myself. I don't care how Americans feel about Trump. I, like probably billions of people across the globe, care about what he does that directly affects us. Yes. Quite vehemently.

 

[Tanwen]

10 hours ago, daveb said:

I can't help but wonder why non-Americans who don't even reside in the US get very vehement about this topic? What does it matter to them whether most Americans don't like Trump? 

Because what he does affects the rest of the world. It's making it a more unsafe place and by denying climate change/global warming is going to make the  job so much harder

[daveb]

I'll try to be a little clearer. I get why non-Americans might care about US politics and policies and what the US does. We're a big country with a big influence (warranted or not). And I am not saying non-Americans shouldn't care or shouldn't have an opinion. They/you may even have a different perspective we don't see from within the country. (at the same time, we may have different perspectives, equally as valid, from within the country)

 

What I asked is why defend Trump? I know some Americans defend him because they think he is better for them. Do non-Americans think he is better for the non-Americans? Better than previous presidents? Better than other options? From within the US I can tell you more Americans think he is not. His approval ratings have never gotten to even 50%, and often hover closer to around 40% give or take a few points. Do you really think we are misguided or something?

 

One of his more recent statements, in regards to the climate change report that came out of his administration is his belief that his "gut" is more informed than scientists and other experts. That if he feels something is true it doesn't matter what actual experts know. So climate change is bunk because his gut tells him it isn't real? Of course, it's not news that he will deny what experts say if it goes against what he thinks (and brag about it). You really think that's a good thing to have in the "leader of the free world"?

 

I guess my point is, I don't understand the apparent vehemence of the support and/or defense of Trump. Maybe that's just me.

 

I know it's futile to try to argue with Trump supporters, apologists or defenders. Like Trump, they have already shown they will ignore or dismiss any evidence. And so it just goes round and round. So I won't try. I'll just exercise my freedom of speech because I can, from time to time, and point out his failings and why many Americans, myself included, don't like him. Those who disagree are likewise free to do so.

[Skycaptain]

Realpolitik says that the USA has to be relevant to most nations. NATO means they have military links with a sizeable fraction of Europe. Several of the world's largest corporations are American. Apparently "Coca Cola" is one of the most internationally recognised terms in the world. For many countries, and individual businesses America is a prime export market. For Britain this is even more relevant as most of our exports to the USA are high-margin products, luxury cars, clothing, whisky, etc. 

Then there's the fact that some Americans are prolific travellers. Their spending overseas is measured in billions if not trillions.