Jump to content

Master Trump Thread


LeChat
Message added by LeChat,

Hi, everyone.

 

I'm just helping chime in, here, doing my Admod duty as the cover Admod for the PPS forum of helping make sure members' discussions remain fair and respectful for everyone.

 

As the TOS and PPS forum rules' threads mention, please, remember that members are allowed to disagree, respectfully, without getting into personal, negative judgments or insults about other members.

 

If it helps, they have some tips and/or advice on how to disagree with other members, respectfully.

 

Thank you!

 

LeChat,

Welcome Lounge, Announcements, and Alternate Language moderator

(covering the PPS forum)

Recommended Posts

@Perspektiv

 

Any native citizen is more likely to know their own countries' politics better than any foreigner, because of culture and all the little undescribed nuances that can't exactly be translated or told, that's probably what Sally is referring to. Just because you're well read doesn't mean you know more than Americans in America, and that gives you a different perspective, that doesn't make you wrong though.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Dryad said:

Just because you're well read

I've traveled to the US, quite a few times. More than half my family is American (with relatives residing in Virginia, New York, California, etc). I do business with Americans, daily.

 

You're telling me someone who is regularly exposed to the American culture, won't eventually come to understanding it?

 

I've resided in England. You're telling me I'll be clueless to British slang? British comedy, and British politics just because I'm not from there?

 

I would say you're wrong.

 

Books are meaningless, if you can't apply the knowledge.

 

I was taught about world affairs in my school curriculum. Meant that you opened your mind to countries that weren't your own.

 

Its the main reason I speak as many languages as I do, and am as fascinated by as many countries as I am. Also, why I've traveled a lot, and still do.

 

The diameter of your knowledge, is the circumference of your activity.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I've traveled to the US, quite a few times. More than half my family is American (with relatives residing in Virginia, New York, California, etc). I do business with Americans, daily.

 

You're telling me someone who is regularly exposed to the American culture, won't eventually come to understanding it?

 

I've resided in England. You're telling me I'll be clueless to British slang? British comedy, and British politics just because I'm not from there?

 

I would say you're wrong.

 

Books are meaningless, if you can't apply the knowledge.

 

I was taught about world affairs in my school curriculum. Meant that you opened your mind to countries that weren't your own.

 

Its the main reason I speak as many languages as I do, and am as fascinated by as many countries as I am. Also, why I've traveled a lot, and still do.

 

The diameter of your knowledge, is the circumference of your activity.

 

Why can't you just let this go?  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that this may sound boring, but a return to the original topic wouldn't go amiss here. Thanks 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

It just boggles my mind that anyone could think Trump is no different from previous presidents or that he isn't a total embarrassment. He is such a small-minded petty person, with apparently no thought for anyone but himself. Rarely admits he was wrong, and the rare cases where he does seem to admit it he places the blame on other people. The evidence is there for all to see, and day after day he adds to it with his tweets, public actions caught on camera, his rallies, and everything. Even though some people, supporters/non-supporters, seem to wave it off as just something politicians do. No, it is not normal. It's abby somebody. And the blame is his, not his opponents. The buck stops at his desk. He is responsible for what he does. That's part of being president.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, daveb said:

Rarely admits he was wrong

He is a classic high conflict narcissist. 

 

He ticks every single box of the psychological assessment. 

 

They are masters of gaslighting you, when pressed, forcing you to back down. He has done so time and time again. 

 

He is essentially gaslighting the planet and the American news media that don't provide him with the negative advocates he desperately needs. 

 

Those who are smart, have read about the personality disorder prior to doing business with him. 

 

They change their approach and this is his true weakness. 

 

Flattery. Being in constant agreement with him until you get what you want. 

 

Probably no surprise he tends to surround himself with crooks and has a history of doing business with them. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Telecaster68 said:

I'm a Brit. I'm completely sure I understand our culture and politics better than you.

Oooh, I didn't mean to say "I've resided in England."  That was a typo!   I haven't lived anywhere but the US.  

 

EDIT:  Tele, I think you got mixed up in your quoting.  Perspektiv said that, not me.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Skycaptain said:

I know that this may sound boring, but a return to the original topic wouldn't go amiss here. Thanks 

<nods>

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

This is from a Us government report on the dire consequences.

 

However with so many in the government so sceptical, the report is probably being used by them as a door stop

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, The Bookworm said:

I seriously wonder how a Trump supporter can both support the Trump party and disavow white supremacy at the same time.

I can't speak of Trump supporters as I am not one, however I really don't understand why people think that Trump or that all of their supporters are some how 'White Supremacists'.

 

The argument that "White supremacists support trump, so he has to be a white supremacist" is just a fallacy, and one that's becoming tiresome. 

 

The fact that 'white supremacists' do one thing or support one person does not mean that everyone who does that thing or supports that thing are 'White Supremacists'. Demonising people based on their political belief and calling them bigots is just misguided, and only creates derision. 

 

I would like to point out that some people have differing political views to others, and if one is going to have respect for religious opinions, then they really should respect political opinion. 

 

There are many posts in this thread, (and I am not pointing at anyone in particular, or a particular post) that in my opinion are insulting towards people who voted for Trump. Why do people need to demonise 50% of the US population, and accuse them of being every type of bigot there is. 

 

This forum is supposed to be a place for asexual people to feel safe and welcome, and it professes to promote asexual awareness, and it also claims to represent asexual people. Asexuality is supposed to be something that affects about 1% of the population. That is 1% of the whole population. So AVEN should have about 50% of the American users who are Trump voters. 

 

I once got a nudge for saying that "Deplatforming is a tactic of the far left", as it insulted AVEN users who identify as being part of the far left. This was in my mind just a fact. Regardless, if this is the standard of unacceptability, then many of the comments in this thread are offensive to people with a different political view.

 

In the UK discrimination based on political alignment is illegal. I''d like to know if AVEN is going to take any steps to ensure that it neither intentionally, nor institutionally discriminates based on political alignment. The answer "Don't be silly", or "Don't care", or "Good" are not appropriate. Where are all the asexual people who are Trump voters? Are they afraid to talk about their political alignment? Or do they take one look and run off? Maybe AVEN might like to add political alignment to its 'Census'. 

 

I wan't to add one point again. I am NOT a Trump supporter. 

 

I just don't like the hypocrisy of being against bigotry, but being bigoted based on political alignment. There are good reasons why most legislation deals with political belief along site that of religious belief. Political belief is something that is shared in families, social groups, and work environments. I really do think that most people don't have a choice in their political outlook, and adopt it from those around them. I really don't think it is in anyway helpful to just call people with a different political view names, and accuse them of hatred and discrimination, can no one else see the hypocrisy in this?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, G0D said:

I once got a nudge for saying that "Deplatforming is a tactic of the far left", as it insulted AVEN users who identify as being part of the far left. 

I'd bet more likely you got the nudge for criticizing a whole group of people -- all of the "far left" -- as though they all do something that you think is bad.   That's definitely in the TOS.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sally said:

I'd bet more likely you got the nudge for criticizing a whole group of people -- all of the "far left" -- as though they all do something that you think is bad.   That's definitely in the TOS.  

No, I believe I accurately represented what I wrote.

 

That was though the rule I was pulled up on.

 

To quote the Honorable Ms Cone:    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

PS: I was not complaining about my nudge, just trying to point to the line that has been drawn in the sand and ask "Is the same rule applicable to people with other political opinions"?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, G0D said:

"Is the same rule applicable to people with other political opinions"?

If I said "Deplatforming is a tactic of the far right", I'd probably get nudged also.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sally said:

If I said "Deplatforming is a tactic of the far right", I'd probably get nudged also.  

How would anyone know? And if it was the case then with all the generalisations about Trump, and his supporters on this thread one would expect lots of green writing asking people not to break the rules wouldn't you? Or are you really saying this thread doesn't contain generalisations about Trump supporters?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, G0D said:

 Or are you really saying this thread doesn't contain generalisations about Trump supporters?

 

I'm saying what I just said above.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, G0D said:

The argument that "White supremacists support trump, so he has to be a white supremacist" is just a fallacy, and one that's becoming tiresome. 

That's not the argument. Not all Trump supporters are white supremacists, but more than likely, all white supremacists are Trump supporters. Previously a fringe group, they are now defining the party. If a Trump supporter is able to disavow white supremacy, then they have a lot of work to do when it comes to changing the direction of the party.

 

Trump has absolutely no control over who supports or endorses him, but he does need to be adamant about eradicating this racist cancer from the party.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought long and hard about replying to @The Bookworm . I really don't want to risk getting warned for generalisations, But I really can't see any way to talk about politics without generalising. I actually take @The Bookworm's post seriously, and I have done my best to try and explain. I am not trying to win any argument, and I see our discussion as just that, a discussion. I just don't want to risk bans to have a reasonable conversation.

 

If anyone else wishes to join in or follow the spin off from this thread, I have posted a "RE:" for this thread on ASM. 

 

I won't post a direct link here, as I am sure there will be an issue if I did that too, so if you want to find it, just follow the link in the signature to the main site (runs the same forum software as here) or if you want just msg me, and I'll send you a direct link. I've sent @The Bookworm the link. I really just want to discuss this without my opinion being viewed as offensive to anyone. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@G0D I'm confused about your post on the other site. Do you mean that democratic politicians or voters "should" denounce other democratic voters who choose to commit violence against those of other political parties? If you meant democratic voters, those who live in rural states, where there aren't many voters from their political party aren't able to know or control what other, larger political groups in other states plan on doing, nor does that one, single voter have the power to stop others who choose to commit violence. Not all those of a political party are the same.

 

Also, this isn't just about democratic voters wanting to just have their view or laws their way. It has real-world implications (i.e., the political violence you mentioned in the other forum.) It's very problematic and frustrating to live in a state where the majority vote Republican, constantly vote in lawmakers who talk about wanting to change public schools and policies according to their Christian, religious beliefs, completely ignoring others of the population (including a large segment of the population who are African-American) who aren't of that religious belief or don't have any at all, as though they don't matter. Minority groups have already had plenty of experience of listening to others' opinions (i.e. those of the majority) for their whole lives, without the majority not caring to talk to or listen to theirs.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

@InquisitivePhilosopher I'm not saying they should as in "Here is a magic pill". What I am trying to do is to show that the actions of both sides and the rhetoric used is understandable, and just because one party does or doesn't denounce something is as much about not wishing to pander to the allegations of the other group rather than simply an implicit condoning of actions by silence. (god I am going to have to read that a few times to see if I even understand it)..

 

I'm a bit nervous of saying much here in case I fall into the trap of insulting by generalisation, and generalisation is the only tool I have to try and understand any of this. I can't address the beliefs and actions of every single person individually, and even if I did that it would fall foul of the rules here. 

 

As a fervent, and dare I say evangelistic atheist I can fully, and totally sympathise with the fear, and anger someone must have in being ruled by people who believe the earth is only 6000 years old, and who think the world is a flat disk. My only comment would be "You don't solve that with violence"! It's been tried way to many times, and it just makes religious people more willing to die for their (crap i can't say what I want here)... (think of flowers, and unicorns, and breath)... Beliefs. 

 

The only way to make progress, and to neutralise any form of fundamentalism, be it political, or religious, is to try and empathise with your opponent, and figure out why they do, and say the things they do, and then try and be reasonable. It doesn't mean that you can't express your opinions, or your anger, but by just dismissing every thing they say in the worst possible light, and dehumanising them, and banning them from voicing their opinion, and meeting their words with violence, all that happens is that the very worst and nastiest ideas are diluted. 

 

Love to chat more, but I just got a 'Warning' ohhh the irony... 

 

Talk to me over at the other spot where I can actually type without fear of getting banned. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@G0D I've come across disparaging comments about atheists on here, from those who are religious and who think being an atheist is wrong, bad, etc., but, like how two of my childhood friends told me I couldn't say "God" because they said it was blasphemous (even though I didn't understand what they meant by that, nor why they thought I shouldn't say that when I always heard several of my classmates say it), I've ignored it and didn't say anything, as I know that most of the U.S. population and other countries around the world are religious and that I'm not able to change their viewpoint.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

For all that I dislike about Trump, there is one thing that I have to be happy he addressed: Trade war with China. With all the economic discourse of the US vs China, it had to be addressed sooner rather than later. He might have gone overboard with dragging in US allies, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, InquisitivePhilosopher said:

@G0D I've come across disparaging comments about atheists on here, from those who are religious and who think being an atheist is wrong, bad, etc., but, like how two of my childhood friends told me I couldn't say "God" because they said it was blasphemous (even though I didn't understand what they meant by that, nor why they thought I shouldn't say that when I always heard several of my classmates say it), I've ignored it and didn't say anything, as I know that most of the U.S. population and other countries around the world are religious and that I'm not able to change their viewpoint.

You can't fight religion with logic. It doesn't work. I see religion as an illness. 

 

If you talk to god you are to be trusted, and liked.

 

If god talks to you, your mad, and people will want to lock you up.

 

In court it says "In god we trust",

 

if you say in court that 'god' was the reason you did something you will go to prison. 

 

Its Madness.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, G0D said:

and just because one party does or doesn't denounce something is as much about not wishing to pander to the allegations of the other group rather than simply an implicit condoning of actions by silence.

"Pandering to the allegations of one group, and condoning actions of another by silence", hmm, sounds like a generalization made in ignorance to me.

 

I suppose you might be talking about how white supremacists and elitists are Trump supporters, and the masses of the Republicans don't denounce them, and also don't pandering to black people and other minorities because of "allegations".

 

Well I'm sure you know how to pick up a history book and read about how systematic racism was born from "The Birth of a Nation" to "the good work" the daughters of the Confederacy are still doing today, all backed by the KKK, not "supposed allegations".

 

That Trump openly accepts support from white supremacists isn't an allegation, especially in certain cases like Cindy Hyde Smith and Joe Arpacio and other horrible excuses of human beings, I'm sure you can think of a few. But it is an actual allegation to say "Trump was elected to created another Civil War for the South to rise again".( But... it's seems kinda true to me, so... ) I mean an allegation is without proof, and for Trump, the odds are always stacked against him...oh right, it's all "fake news". Didn't Hilter first destabilize journalists so people couldn't hear the truth about him? Then who did he go after? Wake up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
RoseGoesToYale

Much like a brazen giant of much disdain,

With flailing limbs astride from end to end;

Here at our barbed wire, watched gates shall cower

An abominable man with tear gas, whose smoke

Is the tears of ancestors, and his name

FATHER OF FEAR. From his tiny hand

Grows world-wide hatred; his wild eyes command

The moat-like wall that twixt countries shame.

 

“Keep out, humans, your filthiness!” cries he

With angry lips. “I am so tired, you’re poor,

Your huddled masses don’t matter a bit to me,

The wretched refuse of your sh*thole shore.

Send these, the un-American, back whence they came,

I lower my torch to burn the door shut!”

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...