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Telecaster68

For asexuals: when you say you physically enjoy sex, what does that actually mean? [almost inevitable TMI]

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Mysticus Insanus

while I'm repulsed, not favorable, I obviously still fall into the group you're fed up with.

I am only fed up with people saying "you can enjoy sex and still be asexual", it's mystifying to newcomers and it doesn't make any sense. I believe that "asexuals" who enjoy sex only use the label as a security blanket. Being asexual is all they know and they're unwilling to give up the label as it brings them comfort. That or the fact that some asexuals seem to think that being asexual is somehow better than being sexual.

But I do say they can. And, personally, I can even enjoy one specific form/practice of partnered sex, while being strongly repulsed by all others..

Do you think - and I hereby, officially, give you permission to ignore AVEN's ToS in regards to me specifically, in this answer; revoke my right to report the answer whatever it may be; and strongly discourage anyone else from reporting it, either - that this makes me a pseudo-asexual who uses the term as a security blanket, despite the fact that I do not desire sex, at all?

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Skullery Maid

Hmmm. I'd like to split the difference between you two. For me personally, my asexual-line-in-the-sand is when someone enjoys the entirety of the sexual experience and occasionally wants to participate in it. They don't have to obsessively seek it out, but if inside them they get a "huh, I could do the sex right now!" and then they do it and have an entirely positive experience... for me, not asexual. Again, for me personally, that would mean that Mysti is absolutely asexual, while some of the sentiments in the Site Comments "Sex Positive Aces" thread suggest a sexual person, not an asexual one.

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Notte stellata

It's interesting that Pan's, Serran's and Mysti's understandably qualified experiences aside, none of the asexuals I've seen post about how they enjoy sex have contributed.

Well I have, though I'm not sure if I'm one of the asexuals you refer to. I'm not super vocal about enjoying sex, but I did post in the sex-favorable ace thread recently. Maybe you'll get more responses if you post in the sex talk forum?

Why do I enjoy sex? First, because the physical stimulation feels good, which isn't so different from masturbation. Second, I enjoy the cuddling and caressing during sex, although I can get the same enjoyment from non-sexual intimacy as well. Third, it makes me happy to see how much my partner enjoys it. But it's mostly the first reason that makes me say I enjoy sex.

Why don't I desire sex? First, there are many other things I enjoy more than sex. I'd rather read a good book or watch my favorite YouTube channel than have sex. Second, I have a very low libido, so I rarely spontaneously feel I need an orgasm right away. Third, as explained above, although I enjoy various aspects of sex, there's nothing magical about sex as a whole. I can get the same enjoyment separately from other activities.

Also, I don't enjoy the type of sex most people think of when they talk about sex: penetrative sex, because it doesn't feel good physically. In contrast, most sexual women enjoy penetrative sex even though they can't achieve orgasm through it. I think that shows how sex feels mentally different for sexuals and asexuals.

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m4rble

This reminds me of how I feel about playing new videogames. I have a very limited range of the types of video games I enjoy and seek out. I mostly just keep to the ones I'm very familiar with. I don't generally choose to play new ones because I'm stubborn and I don't like the frustration of not knowing how to play. My younger brother, on the other hand, loves to play new video games, and often tries to get me to play with him. I resist these attempts because I figure things I haven't already played aren't worth playing. However, when I do play with him, I often enjoy myself while I'm doing it. Perhaps a sex positive ace has experiences somewhat similar to that.

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Jade Cross

Lol, I was going to post a response with video games as well, before Notte's response. Though I dont seek out new titles and very rarely will try out one even when other people tell me about them despite how interesting the game may sound or if its a genre Im a fan off. Even trying them out will not guarantee that I like the game. I remember everyone raving about Skyward Sword for example and it only took me 2 minutes of seeing the game to say "Yea thats not worth playing" and that idea only grew after seeing the gameplay and the end game.

Other off putting factors are: the ridiculous high costs of games, the even more ridiculous high costs of the consoles and the pocket draining goal of DLC which is basically what alot of the games today have become. Plus they are way shorter and lack content unlike classicals.

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Philip027

Liking something doesn't necessarily mean you'd pursue it.

Not really sure how else to respond to the topic.

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Sally

Why do I enjoy sex? First, because the physical stimulation feels good, which isn't so different from masturbation. Second, I enjoy the cuddling and caressing during sex, although I can get the same enjoyment from non-sexual intimacy as well. Third, it makes me happy to see how much my partner enjoys it. But it's mostly the first reason that makes me say I enjoy sex.

I can't see anything other than "sexual" in what you say. No matter what type of sex you enjoy, the fact is that you enjoy it physically and emotionally. What else is there?

I on the other hand didn't enjoy it physically and never got anything emotionally out of it.

So how can we both be asexuals?

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Serran

I, personally, don't feel like enjoying sex has anything to do with orientation. Some people really like orgasms and don't care how they have it, whatever. But, if one enjoys it enough to desire it and seek it out - or would miss it if they could never have it again - then I begin to kind of wonder about how one orientation can fit us both when we have vastly different definitions of it. I do not believe Notte is in the desires or would seek it out group though? Just can get enjoyment when having it with their partner, for their partner?

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Notte stellata

Why do I enjoy sex? First, because the physical stimulation feels good, which isn't so different from masturbation. Second, I enjoy the cuddling and caressing during sex, although I can get the same enjoyment from non-sexual intimacy as well. Third, it makes me happy to see how much my partner enjoys it. But it's mostly the first reason that makes me say I enjoy sex.

I can't see anything other than "sexual" in what you say. No matter what type of sex you enjoy, the fact is that you enjoy it physically and emotionally. What else is there?

I on the other hand didn't enjoy it physically and never got anything emotionally out of it.

So how can we both be asexuals?

Believe it or not, my partner has been frustrated because I don't desire sex, even though I can enjoy it. I rarely initiate sex, and if I do it's only because I know he wants it. When I agree to have sex, it's often a reluctant "I'd rather keep reading AVEN, but if you really want it, okay." It's never "Hell yes! I haven't had sex for so long!" I'll also stop enjoying sex if it gets too frequent, and I shudder at the thought of spending a whole day having sex (which my partner would really like to do). I do believe I have a much easier time in a mixed relationship than many asexuals, but there's still sexual incompatibility between me and a sexual, because I lack the passionate desire for sex.

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Fire & Rain

Sex is like riding a rollercoaster. Sure, it's fun but would I want to ride it again ever? It seems so unnecessary.

Well, the thing is physical enjoyment doesn't equate overall enjoyment. Physically, it could be a perfect 10 but that's not going to make me not want to stop or want it again because overall experience is meh. Every time I have sex I have to try and not think about that fact that I'm having sex because when I really start thinking about it, I feel like I'd rather not be having it. The mind is also telling you like, "this would already be done by now if you chose to masturbate. Oh and did you do the laundry? What are you going to eat for dinner?"

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Mysticus Insanus

Sex is like riding a rollercoaster. Sure, it's fun but would I want to ride it again ever? It seems so unnecessary.

Well, the thing is physical enjoyment doesn't equate overall enjoyment. Physically, it could be a perfect 10 but that's not going to make me not want to stop or want it again because overall experience is meh. Every time I have sex I have to try and not think about that fact that I'm having sex because when I really start thinking about it, I feel like I'd rather not be having it. The mind is also telling you like, "this would already be done by now if you chose to masturbate. Oh and did you do the laundry? What are you going to eat for dinner?"

As an aside reading this... for me, saying that I enjoy the one sexual practice I can enjoy isn't even talking about physical enjoyment. It's purely emotional.

If the partner didn't passionately, enthusiasitically enjoy it, there would be no point at all for me to do it - and that's not a question of ethics, it's one of practicality. 100% of the whole point of the sexual encounter would be negated. It's literally all about causing a woman pleasure, and drawing secondary enjoyment from her pleasure, which remains a logical, not merely an ethical, sine-qua-non condition.

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CBC

Um... I find the scale kind of difficult to work with given that walking into a nice cool building on a really hot day is generally much better than sex for me, but if I can add negative numbers I'd put how I feel around -5. In the very best state of mind, in my most sex-positive moments, perhaps a 3? Because there are certain parts that are alright. Sometimes.

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chimaera

.

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Mysticus Insanus

Thanks for answering, chimaera. :cake:

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Tarfeather

Do you think that this makes me a pseudo-asexual who uses the term as a security blanket, despite the fact that I do not desire sex, at all?

This is kinda difficult to answer because the only thing the word "asexual" means to me is "not interested in sex". So, if you have no desire whatsoever to have sex, then yes, you're asexual in my book.

Now the tricky part - people may be uninterested in having sex for all sorts of reasons, therefore I don't believe asexuality is a sexual orientation...

So.. what do you call what I call asexuals?

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doctora

Why do I enjoy sex? First, because the physical stimulation feels good, which isn't so different from masturbation. Second, I enjoy the cuddling and caressing during sex, although I can get the same enjoyment from non-sexual intimacy as well. Third, it makes me happy to see how much my partner enjoys it. But it's mostly the first reason that makes me say I enjoy sex.

I can't see anything other than "sexual" in what you say. No matter what type of sex you enjoy, the fact is that you enjoy it physically and emotionally. What else is there?

I on the other hand didn't enjoy it physically and never got anything emotionally out of it.

So how can we both be asexuals?

What else is there? Sexual attraction. If you enjoy masturbation, does that mean you're sexually attracted to yourself? It doesn't. Therefore you can enjoy having sex with someone physically and not be sexually attracted to them.

Do you think that this makes me a pseudo-asexual who uses the term as a security blanket, despite the fact that I do not desire sex, at all?

This is kinda difficult to answer because the only thing the word "asexual" means to me is "not interested in sex". So, if you have no desire whatsoever to have sex, then yes, you're asexual in my book.

Now the tricky part - people may be uninterested in having sex for all sorts of reasons, therefore I don't believe asexuality is a sexual orientation...

I separate the "interest in sex", "enjoyment of sex" and "sexual attraction". For example you may be curious in having sex with someone, not enjoy, and not be sexually attracted. You may also enjoy sex with someone you're not sexually attracted to. Sex can be mere stimulation of the sex organs, it doesn't have to do with interest in sex with a particular person. Imagine a heterosexual man having sex with another man he is not attracted to. He will still be stimulated, even though he may not be interested in having sex with another man, neither is he attracted sexually to the other man. I think asexuality is definitely a sexual orientation. The existence of single-sex attraction implies that lack of sexual attraction in itself is part of a sexual orientation. Therefore I find it hard to see how lack of sexual attraction to anyone is not a sexual orientation. The alternative is the implication that everyone has to be attracted to some gender. This is like a tyranny of sexual attraction. Ultimately to say there's no asexuality as a sexual orientation is to say everyone is pansexual. I find it more likely that some people are just naturally not attracted to anyone. It is like forgetting that multiplication tables have a 0 times 0 entry, which normally isn't printed, but it is still there.

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Mysticus Insanus

Ultimately to say there's no asexuality as a sexual orientation is to say everyone is pansexual.

No, because this entire "attraction" thing, whatever it even means, has nothing at all to do with one's orientation.

Not everyone desires sex with every group of people; that, alone, is enough to confirm that not everyone is pansexual.

People who do desire sex, though, and can't differentiate what sex/gender is their preference? Those people are pansexual, and tehy are definitely not asexual by any meaningful use of that word. Presence or absence of desire for sex is the only actual thing that differentiates aces and pansexuals. Asexuals don't desire sex with anyone. The label is pointless otherwise.

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Jade Cross
Which brings back the previous examples of being capable of enjoying sex without inherently seeking it out.

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Mysticus Insanus

Since enjoyment doesn't equal desire... yeah. I see no problem at all in the idea that (some) aces can enjoy sex. It's those who desire it - and, thus, go seek it out - whom I consider to be pseudo-asexuals, and false positives under the "attraction" definition. (Just as many sexuals are false negatives under it - it's a very much unreliable and worthless definition, either way.)

Apparently, that's something where my view differs from Sally's and Ficto's, at least in what they are saying nowadays.

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Sally

Apparently, that's something where my view differs from Sally's and Ficto's, at least in what they are saying nowadays.[/font][/color]

What I've always said: asexuality, to me, is not wanting sex with other people. To me, not wanting means you really don't want to have it. That pretty much leaves out the "don't seek it but enjoy it." That, to me, is a sexual who just doesn't take the trouble to search for it.

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Mysticus Insanus

What I've always said: asexuality, to me, is not wanting sex with other people. To me, not wanting means you really don't want to have it. That pretty much leaves out the "don't seek it but enjoy it." That, to me, is a sexual who just doesn't take the trouble to search for it.

So, basically you'd say an asexual has to be repulsed by sex, at least a little bit? Because even a "true neutral" setting would be a bit fishy under these premises.

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Tarfeather

I veto that.

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Mysticus Insanus

I veto that.

So would I, but I was asking Sally for her opinion.

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Sally

What I've always said: asexuality, to me, is not wanting sex with other people. To me, not wanting means you really don't want to have it. That pretty much leaves out the "don't seek it but enjoy it." That, to me, is a sexual who just doesn't take the trouble to search for it.

So, basically you'd say an asexual has to be repulsed by sex, at least a little bit? Because even a "true neutral" setting would be a bit fishy under these premises.

What I meant was that you "truly" don't want to have it. I didn't mean "really" in the sense of being repulsed. And yes, I was neutral about sex in my earlier life, not repulsed, but it would never have been my choice to have sex, if I hadn't want to please my partner.

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Mysticus Insanus

What I meant was that you "truly" don't want to have it. I didn't mean "really" in the sense of being repulsed.

Okay, that's a good bit clearer. :)

And yes, I was neutral about sex in my earlier life, not repulsed, but it would never have been my choice to have sex, if I hadn't want to please my partner.

This feeling of pleasing a partner can be very enjoyable, though. I don't see the problem when sex is used as the tool/medium to please a partner, and this leads to a mutually enjoyable situation.

It's just when someone has a preference to go for use of that specific tool instead of, dunno, going bowling, watching a movie together, baking a cake for them, etc.pp., and thinks that this specific tool being missing from the toolbox would be a big problem, when any other tool missing wouldn't be, that it really, really doesn't sound like valid asexuality to me.

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nanogretchen4

Personally I find the scale very confusing. Most people desire and actively seek out air conditioning on a hot day. How can that be the starting point of the scale? Orgasm is not such a big deal to me. No way is it an 8 or 9. On many occasions I have desired and actively sought out sex while having no interest in having an orgasm. If someone asked me how much I enjoyed sex on a certain occasion physical sensations would not be the first thing I would think to comment on. In general it's the kind of sex question I don't even know how to answer.

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chimaera

.

 

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Mysticus Insanus

I see no problem at all in the idea that (some) aces can enjoy sex.

Theoretically speaking, I believe that under specific circumstances (which vary from person to person) everyone can enjoy sex (at least purely physically). Our bodies work the same way whether we identify as straight/gay/asexual or anything else (the identity only describes one's preference/behavior). In the end, sex is just a nerve stimulation that results in various chemical substances being released. These chemicals are the reason "sex feels good".

Depending on how exactly you'd define sex there, I find that claim highly dubitable.

Not a very romantic description, I know. :p

Bahh, romance. Keeping romance out of the description of sex in unequivocally good thing, in my eyes. ;)

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Skullery Maid

When I think about things I enjoy, they run the gamut from things that give me immense pleasure to things that are personal passions to random things in the world that I never consider, but when pressed, will give a thumbs up. So when I say "I enjoy sex", I'm being fairly vague. Do I enjoy it like I enjoy a quiet house, a joint, and a great movie? Or do I enjoy like I enjoy seeing the big red barn on Wind River Hwy? I enjoy both, but one of them gives me feelings of joy, comfort, and pleasure, while the other isn't something I would ever go out of my way to see, but every time I pass it I think "beautiful".

There are people who really really like old Americana stuff, and they probably enjoy that big red barn in a completely different way... in a way that calls up their emotions, makes them feel something. It doesn't make me feel anything... all you're getting from me is an intellectual sort of "yup, that's pleasing to the eye". The fact that both the Americana lover and I use the word "enjoy" doesn't mean we're experiencing anything remotely similar to each other.

You know how the difference between introverts and extroverts is described in terms of energy? That for extroverts, they're energized from socializing... they get something out of it that makes them feel better, or feel like themselves, whereas for introverts, it takes energy to socialize and they're recharged from solitude. Well, sex for me is like socializing for extroverts... physically it may tire me out, sure, but it improves my mood, my self esteem, it reduces my stress, it makes me feel peaceful and capable and centered and blissful. I imagine for an asexual who enjoys but doesn't desire sex, it doesn't have that same sort of... therapeutic quality to it.

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Sally

Theoretically speaking, I believe that under specific circumstances (which vary from person to person) everyone can enjoy sex (at least purely physically).

Nope to the "everyone". Not even theoretically, or specific circumstances, or whatever. Some people simply don't enjoy sex.

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