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Member4445

Avens Misrepresentation of Asexuals

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Member4445

Bet that title got your attention. It isn't quite false actually.

I am, of course, speaking about the segregating of sex favourable Asexuals.

A few months ago, I made a post Here arguing that Antisexuality and Sex Repulse Asexuals are becoming the main stereotype of what an asexual is. The main point of that thread was lost due to arguing. This come from forums and my experiences on here, and from news articles I have read. Once it's appearing in news articles, you know as a visibility and education organisation that there is a problem. Aven has sought to represent Asexuals from all walks of life and has become more inclusional in the recent years as evident from the creation of the Intersection forum. However, whilst being inclusional of other protected minorities, it is excluding those Asexuals who have and enjoy sex but no not go out seeking it because they desire it.

Yesterday, we had the posting of another thread in Site Comments where several members decided to identity police members of the chat room because they discuss sex as a subject. So what? You can talk about sex without being sexual. Once again, many members of this forum have had and enjoyed sex and are still asexual. Yesterday, in chat, I was told on 3 separate occasions that I can't be asexual because I made a sex joke. Again, so what? I have a sense of humour.

Talking about sex does not make somebody sexual.

Joking about sex does not make somebody sexual.

Aven itself, hasn't helped these views. Antisexual thought processes and the sex repulsed are celebrated above sex favourability. If somebody posted about how great the sex they had was, guaranteed they would be met with replies of 'ew gross' and 'you are clearly sexual, why are you on this forum.' Around the time I created that other thread, I was almost ran out of chat because I said that I find sex physically enjoyable, am therefore sexual and to get out of that chat room and Aven. Then they tried to vote me out. Which was of course hilarious (again sense of humour) but it shows a clear problem with the accepted culture on Aven.

Then you have the Sex Talk subforum. This subforum was created to remove all sex related discussions from the forums apparently in a bid to protect the minds of the sex repulsed. As nice as that is, what does that tell us about sex favourable people here? It tells us that our discussions are not welcome on any other part of the board and to stay in that place when they could easily fit into other forums is musi-rants or Rels. Then there's the fact that the Sex Talk subforum is included in the Grey's section. People are going to see that and automatically think that if you discuss sex or enjoy it then you are Grey at least. It is not an impression that should be given to new people discovering their identities nor to potential researchers who come here for answers and aren't told Asexuals can have sex too.

What Asexuality is Not

Asexuality is not any of the following :

A hatred of sex

Sexual repulsion

The inability to become aroused or to feel sexual pleasure

A feeling of discomfort during acts of intimacy or sex

Feeling nervous or fearing sex

Lack of libido

Chastity, Celibacy or Abstinence

Disinterest in sex

Copied from here: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/85544-what-asexuality-is-not/ [Thread by Doppel]

When did we step away from this sort of anti-definition? Why has the Antisexuality Rhetoric been allowed to spread so far that sex favourable people are being 'voted' out of an asexual place purely because they enjoy the feeling sex brings them, Because physical stimulation feels good to them? Why are we, as sex favourable Asexuals being forced by other members to keep our stories and discussion to ourselves because 1 person feels a little bit uncomfortable and could easily leave the chat room/thread.

Asexuality is an orientation. Act does not equal orientation.

A Message to Asexuals who enjoy the physical feeling of sex and masturbate

As an asexual who enjoys the feeling of sex, do not feel afraid to identify as asexual because people on here have beaten you down with their rhetoric. You can still call yourself asexual if you do not experience sexual attraction. You deserve to be on this website and damn well will I never accept somebody telling me that I'm not a sexuality I have comfortably identified as for 6 years because they only accept the Antisexuality rhetoric. And to hell am I ever going to find it acceptable that potentially questioning Asexuals are joining this site and being turned away by individuals who don't understand what Asexuality is.

You are not alone.

You do belong here.

It is ok for you to enjoy sex and masturbation.

And it's definitely ok to report the living day lights out of anybody who tries to tell you that you can't be asexual.

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Skycaptain

I agree. The problem is differentiating between function, such as not having functional genitalia, repulsion, such as previous trauma or concerns about your sexual development, hormones, fear, and others, many issues which can inhibit desire.

If you are capable of functioning sexually just to go through the motions this doesn't mean you are not asexual.

Taking a personal analogy, I may not want to have sex with an individual, but if they were to practice tactile stimulation of my genitalia the expected result will possibly occur.

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SkyWorld

Making a sex joke makes someone sexual?

Little-Girl-Meme-Face-04.jpg

I, myself, am sex-repulsed, so just putting that out there really quick. I guess it depends on how "extreme" one's repulsion is, because clearly different people feel more or less repulsed of sex and others. Even I don't mind talking about sex, or even saying the word sex, though I mostly talk about it in more of a scientific way than something personal and intimate. Even I can laugh at a sex joke, and very very rarely even make some of my own, but I'm mostly not impressed by sex jokes. Sure, sometime I find it gross, but more often than not, I'm just simply not amused. But seriously, just talking or joking about sex, apparently to some people, invalidates one's asexuality? That's... absurd.

As for the sex talk subforum, it's really more for threads that are considered TMI. People could still talk about sex in the Grey-A forum. Also, yes, that's the forum's main name as "The Grey Area", but the full name is "The Grey Area, Sex and Related Discussions" for a reason. The forum has more than one purpose than just the grey area, but just so happens to share a space since sometimes it's closely linked. Similar to how Romantic and Aromantics share a forum instead of being separated, the forum serves more than one purpose, but just grouped together. Philosophy, Politics and Science is also a good example for the multi-purpose forums.

Yes, it's kind of awkward for me to be that stereotypical ace, but I do agree with the points you made. I'll be honest, I've seen both sex-repulsed and sex-favorable aces push each other out. It's not cool, and both "sides" are just as guilty. I feel that it's okay for people to talk about things and talk with others who can relate, but nobody, from either "side" should push another out. And sharing a space is important to understand one other and learn from each perspectives. Yes, they could still have their own spaces so they can talk more freely with people who can relate, but I just don't think it should be completely polarized and separate from each other and would only make the community more segregated.

Sheesh, I hope that makes sense. :/

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EarlGrey

Asexuality for some people can mean some of the things you say it is not. Sorry to inform you but everyone will define it based on their own experiences and not a specific internet definition. For me, asexuality does in fact mean a disinterest in sex. That has actually been an accepted alternate definition for some time. Sorry if you don't like that.

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Ashes of the phoenix

Asexuality for some people can mean some of the things you say it is not. Sorry to inform you but everyone will define it based on their own experiences and not a specific internet definition. For me, asexuality does in fact mean a disinterest in sex. That has actually been an accepted alternate definition for some time. Sorry if you don't like that.

the OP is making the argument asexuality as a whole is not limited to just this set of personal experiences

how does saying this individual experiencing this particular thing counter that in any way?

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greyce_queen

As the person that started that thread, I was not identity policing anyone. People were being inconsiderate and refused to change the subject from sexual things, I never even implied they were less asexual for being comfortable with such topics.

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Mysticus Insanus

I sure wonder where all this equation of sex-repulsion and antisexuality with being ace is happening, because I hardly see any of it - the rare times when it happens, it quickly (and rightly!) gets called out.

On the contrary, I see a frustratring, exasperating lot of nonsense along the lines of "aces can totally desire partnered sex". And that is indeed a massive misrepresentation of asexuals done in AVEN's name, and it does need to stop.

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greyce_queen

Who is really being marginalized if you insist on having your conversations on the whole site, despite the fact that you know you may be upsetting people? Are you disturbed by the lack of sex in my conversations? There is a sex talk forum because many who are sex-repulsed (like myself) can become very uncomfortable with mention of many of those things. Do you insist on them avoiding the community because god dammit if you cant talk about sex you're being discriminated against? Protecting people who are sex-repulsed is not oppressing those who are not.

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Sally

Who is really being marginalized if you insist on having your conversations on the whole site, despite the fact that you know you may be upsetting people?

Is someone forcing you to read or listen to those conversations?

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timewarp
On the contrary, I see a frustratring, exasperating lot of nonsense along the lines of "aces can totally desire partnered sex". And that is indeed a massive misrepresentation of asexuals done in AVEN's name, and it does need to stop.

Sorry, but I disagree here. First of all, those are individual posts and are consequently not in AVEN's name. You might be right that it is a misrepresentation of asexuals, but that is something we simply don't know yet. There is no final definition of asexuality yet. In fact, the DSM-V uses the self-identification criterion to decide if someone is asexual or not.

Van Houdenhove et al., "Asexuality: A Multidimensional Approach" (2015) looked at the criteria "lack of sexual attraction", "lack of sexual behaviour", and "self-identification" for a sample of 566 participants. About 70% were asexual based on lack of sexual attraction, and also about 70% were asexual based on self-identification. Only about 50% were asexual based on lack of sexual behaviour. The overlap between all three criteria was no more than one third. In conclusion, "asexual individuals can thus vary in the extent to which they do (not) experience sexual attraction, the extent to which they do (not) experience romantic attraction, the way they self-identify, and the extent to which they engage in sexual behaviors. More empirical research is needed to explore this variation, to assess how to differentiate between asexuality and sexuality, and to validate the hypothesis that asexuality is a multifaceted construct, analogous to sexuality".

So please, please, please, let's keep open-minded and welcome everybody here, even if we don't understand their definition of asexuality. At the point where we have more solid knowledge about asexuality, in a few decades or so, we can start sending people away, but definitely not now.

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Mysticus Insanus

First of all, those are individual posts and are consequently not in AVEN's name.

They are made in AVEN's name, because AVEN's TOS makes it a warnable offense to challenge these posts directly. That directly and neccesarily means AVEN, as a whole, endorses "asexuality is whatever you want it to be" as the primary and ultimate criterion.

#AndThatsTerrible

In fact, the DSM-V uses the self-identification criterion to decide if someone is asexual or not.

Not quite. Unless I am very much mistaken, the DSM-V passage you imply here comes from a situation where a consistent and persistent lack of desire for sexual activity is the given situation; only on that basis is then a decision to be made whether this lack of desire is either to be diagnosed as hypoactive sexual disorder or better explained by self-proclaimed asexuality.

Thus, it's not true that it were based on self-identification - the question of asexuality only comes up for the DSM-V in the first place on the foundation of no desire for sex. That is the basis. Where desire for sex is there, DSM-V makes no implication whatsoever that a self-identification of "asexuality" would be in any way meaningful or valid.

Van Houdenhove et al., "Asexuality: A Multidimensional Approach" (2015) looked at the criteria "lack of sexual attraction", "lack of sexual behaviour", and "self-identification" for a sample of 566 participants. About 70% were asexual based on lack of sexual attraction, and also about 70% were asexual based on self-identification. Only about 50% were asexual based on lack of sexual behaviour. The overlap between all three criteria was no more than one third. In conclusion, "asexual individuals can thus vary in the extent to which they do (not) experience sexual attraction, the extent to which they do (not) experience romantic attraction, the way they self-identify, and the extent to which they engage in sexual behaviors. More empirical research is needed to explore this variation, to assess how to differentiate between asexuality and sexuality, and to validate the hypothesis that asexuality is a multifaceted construct, analogous to sexuality".

How did that one define "sexual attraction"?

Basically, I'd say neither of these three is in any way a valid criterion for asexuality. The only valid criterion with every real, legitimate orientation is desire; and desire is not an activity/behavior. You can have sex (yes, even 100% consensual and mutually enjoayble sex) without any desire for it being present.

What you do does not reliably decide your orientation, but what you desire to do absolutely does decide it. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

You might be right that it is a misrepresentation of asexuals, but that is something we simply don't know yet. There is no final definition of asexuality yet.

[...]

So please, please, please, let's keep open-minded and welcome everybody here, even if we don't understand their definition of asexuality. At the point where we have more solid knowledge about asexuality, in a few decades or so, we can start sending people away, but definitely not now.

Then until that time comes, it is way too early to seek asexual visibility in the world at large. We belong firmly in the internet closet until we know what we're even talking about; we should absolutely not walk in pride and invade a movement of people with real, valid orientations who have more important things to care about (as last weekend showed us again, brutally) than a tiny group of very confused people from the internet.

The damage done to everybody's credibility when we find out in a few decades that "sorry, asexuality actually doesn't exist after all/isn't an orientation... our bad!" would be tremendous if we had coaxed LGBT+ to let us in by then.

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WhenSummersGone

I agree that an asexual can enjoy partnered sex, but if an asexual seeks out partnered sex because they enjoy it then I disagree on that. I don't see how they would be different from a sexual person.

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Member4445

Who is really being marginalized if you insist on having your conversations on the whole site, despite the fact that you know you may be upsetting people? Are you disturbed by the lack of sex in my conversations? There is a sex talk forum because many who are sex-repulsed (like myself) can become very uncomfortable with mention of many of those things. Do you insist on them avoiding the community because god dammit if you cant talk about sex you're being discriminated against? Protecting people who are sex-repulsed is not oppressing those who are not.

You're completely missing the point of this thread. I am here to discuss the experience of Sex Favourable Asexuals not argue about marginalisation.

However since you really want to go there, how do you think it would feel to find a community you understand and who understands you, to be able to connect to them through shared experience and become comfortable in your own identity enough to help others figure out there own. Then all of a sudden, that very community tells you that you are no longer asexual because your experience is different to theirs. Suddenly, you are being pushed out of a place you enjoy and where you feel you belong, that some people get really nasty about it. And you're told you need to leave Aven because it isn't a site for Sexuals.

Do you understand how much that can fuck with your head?

"But you've got the entire world to discuss sex with."

No we don't. Our experiences with sex are still completely different to sexual people's. That's a difference between sexual and asexual people. There is no eotional intimacy there, we don't have it because we have to. Our reasons are completely different. And sexual people don't understand that. The majority of Sexuals I have spoken to have either denied Asexuality or insisted that I'm not asexual because in the past I have had sex. They don't understand that action does not equal orientation.

Now please keep this thread on topic, Sex Favourable Asexuals are not being adequately represented by the Aven or the media.

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ithaca

Ciri, genuine question here, could it be simply that sex favourable asexuals are both fewer and less vocal, therefore standing out less? Being part of the group myself, in a way or another, I think maybe we just don't speak up enough. If you allow me a silly metaphor (which you sometimes enjoy, right?), I've seen a lot on the internet from people who dislike or outright hate pickles in burger, but not nearly as much from people who don't mind them or even enjoy them, because people naturally speak up more often about what distresses them than what they like.

Of course if anyone is telling you you're not asexual because you're not sex-repulsed that's wrong, and I'm sure it would be handled by the staff if you reported it.

And thanks for asking to stay on topic :) #NotAnotherDefinitionDebatePlease

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iff

Ciri, genuine question here, could it be simply that sex favourable asexuals are both fewer and less vocal, therefore standing out less? Being part of the group myself, in a way or another, I think maybe we just don't speak up enough. If you allow me a silly metaphor (which you sometimes enjoy, right?), I've seen a lot on the internet from people who dislike or outright hate pickles in burger, but not nearly as much from people who don't mind them or even enjoy them, because people naturally speak up more often about what distresses them than what they like.

Of course if anyone is telling you you're not asexual because you're not sex-repulsed that's wrong, and I'm sure it would be handled by the staff if you reported it.

And thanks for asking to stay on topic :) #NotAnotherDefinitionDebatePlease

ithaca makes a good point here. The internet in general can have an affect that someone who opposes something may speak more about what they are against rather than those who are in favour of it so by that, we can't really get an accurate picture of the balance of those in favour and those against

how many times have

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Mysticus Insanus

I honestly do not see any of this claimed misrepresentation.

Just accept it already - sex-favorable aces are a small minority among aces. Both sex-indifferent and sex-repulsed aces are a lot more common - each of those grioups, by themselves, and especially both of these groups put together. (And yes, I will say it: at least some folks who identify as "sex-favorable aces" simply aren't asexuals by any reasonable, non-snowflakey definition.) Folks who feel like this not forming the lion's share of discussion here, and remaining rather marginal in discussions - that is absolutely to be expected result, just as it should be. It is fair representation. You simply should not dominate the discussion and portray your narrative as "the" asexual narrative.

Now, whether Sex Talk belongs in the Gray sub... yes, that's actually an argument I can understand, and I could easily back a suggestion of moving it somewhere else. Maybe splitting it into a full subcategory of Identities, instead of a subsub. I still do think it makes perfect sense to have the very explicit sex talk confined to a subforum. Like it or not, sex-repulsed people are a very big (much, much bigger than you) percentage of aces, possibly even the simple (probably not absoute) majority. They should not be expected to read TMI all over an asexuality board. It's simply not reasonable to expect them to adjust to a small minority, especially as that minority does still get their space to talk freely.

This systematic and uncorrected erasure that gets implied, though? If that exists, it must be very well hidden. I'm pretty active on here, and I just don't see it. Like, at all. Maybe it's all happening in the chat - I don't go there. But on the forum? Sorry, I'm just not ready to believe that this is an actual problem unless solid evidence gets presented, and I'm not talking about just a single isolated quote. If it's as pervasive as it's claimed here, a dozen examples from the last handful of months should really not be hard to provide.

So, honestly and without snark: Show me the links and educate me.

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Member4445

You've just literally sounded like a man claiming sexism doesn't exist. 'I can't see it, it's never happened to me, prove it.' I've never seen gravity but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Same as caesium or the pythagoras theorem being actually used. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm not the only person here who has experienced this.

If I did that, it would be classed as vigilante modding/calling people out which is against the ToS. Yes, most of it occurs in chat but it's all over the forums too. It's all over tumblr. It's all over real life.

I'm arguing about the segregation of sex talk on the forums rather than the integration. You just have to look at that to see my point.

Small minority groups deserve recognition and representation too, you can't suggest that our experiences don't matter just because there's only a few of us. Antisexuals and the Sex Repulsed shouldn't portray their discussions as the Asexual Narrative either. That's arrogant and again, misrepresentation.

If the world is claiming Asexuals cannot have sex for any reason including physically enjoying it, then the asexual movement has a serious problem on its hands. If you don't care about it, that's fine, but don't stand in my way of trying to change it.

Ith: Yeah, you're probably right. Also, I really like pickles especially in burgers. I eat them out the jar ^_^ We call them gherkins, here :D I have been reporting them but I've made it my mission to ensure that this intersection of Asexuality is included in the Asexual Movement. Least I'm not causing trouble :p

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Mysticus Insanus

You've just literally sounded like a man claiming sexism doesn't exist. 'I can't see it, it's never happened to me, prove it.' I've never seen gravity but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Same as caesium or the pythagoras theorem being actually used. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm not the only person here who has experienced this.

And you say that as if it's a bad thing.

If people claim sexism (racism, homophobia etc.) exists but cannot cite any examples for it, you damn well believe I'd think they're inventing it out of whole cloth, and that the so-called discrimination is actually all in their head, a persecution complex that is their own problem, not society's. Doubting such claims is called critical thinking; and no fairness and justice can exist without it. Not doubting them is just feeding entitlement culture, which prevents fairness and justice.

I guarantee you, that's a very easy choice to make for me.

(BTW, I have seen more than enough evidence for sexism, racism, and homophobia. Because of this evidence, and only because of this evidence, I do believe these problems are real. And that's exactly where your claim in this thread falls short of the comparison.)

Small minority groups deserve recognition and representation too, you can't suggest that our experiences don't matter just because there's only a few of us. Antisexuals and the Sex Repulsed shouldn't portray their discussions as the Asexual Narrative either. That's arrogant and again, misrepresentation.

That would be correct if, and only if, it actually happens. The burden of proof for that claim remains on you - and no, we should not simply believe you without evidence if you can't/won't give it.

If I did that, it would be classed as vigilante modding/calling people out which is against the ToS.

Well, okay. I will readily concede that this is a perfectly valid point, and I won't encourage you to break TOS for my sake or any other.

However, if you think it's not possible to talk about examples in the open, then I don't see what good it does making a public thread to complain about it. PMing the admods and/or a series of reports of posts you see as problematic would have been the far better choice... which you said you already did.

Yes, most of it occurs in chat but it's all over the forums too. It's all over tumblr. It's all over real life.

I'm not in chat, not in tumblr... and I'm hardly ever in real life, either. :lol: So, feel free to see my entire comment as just pertaining to the forum part of AVEN.

Besides, what happens on tumblr or in real life is really of no concern here. You made this thread on AVEN, and specifically in the Site Comments section... so AVEN's chat (which I freely admit I know all but jack squat about) and AVEN's forum (which I'm far more aware of) are really the only relevant theaters here.

I'm arguing about the segregation of sex talk on the forums rather than the integration. You just have to look at that to see my point.

Well, I'm "pro-segregation", if you really want to go with that (probably intentionally) loaded verbiage. :rolleyes: I think it was a good idea that both sides continue to profit from, and would vote to uphold if and when a poll about would get made. There may be better places to put that segregated area, as I already said above. But the idea of segregation in itself is a good one.

I suppose we may as well ag-to-dis right here on that point, as I don't see any realistic chance for a better outcome.

If the world is claiming Asexuals cannot have sex for any reason including physically enjoying it, then the asexual movement has a serious problem on its hands. If you don't care about it, that's fine, but don't stand in my way of trying to change it.

I don't know if "the world" thinks that, nor do I consider it relevant in this context (see above). Your claim is that AVEN thinks that, and does so systematically and uncorrectedly, to boot. You also made an insinuation that some cohesive group of sex-repulsed people, in particular, would think so - which, being a sex-repulsed asexual, myself, who is not contributing to this claim, is an insinuation I hereby reject on good authority.

I doubt your claims, and do expect you to provide examples for it before I'm ready to believe you. If these exist, I am still open to be convinced. If you can't give them, then you can't expect me to side with you. And if the TOS prevents it... well, then that sucks for your chances of getting me convinced. TOS is sucky in some ways, even though you and I probably disagree in which ways it sucks.

And it's because I care about AVEN that I'm quite ready to stand in your way, as I would in any other individual's who'd try changing these boards just for their personal convenience without provision of evidence of an actual problem. This is not your personal blog, it's a public forum. Neither you, nor any other individual, should be allowed to control the narrative just because they subjectively feel marginalised. It first has to be verified to be an actual, legitimate concern.

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Sally

However since you really want to go there, how do you think it would feel to find a community you understand and who understands you, to be able to connect to them through shared experience and become comfortable in your own identity enough to help others figure out there own. Then all of a sudden, that very community tells you that you are no longer asexual because your experience is different to theirs. Suddenly, you are being pushed out of a place you enjoy and where you feel you belong, that some people get really nasty about it. And you're told you need to leave Aven because it isn't a site for Sexuals.

Have you been pushed out of AVEN because of that? Have you been told to leave AVEN because of that? If not, why are you speaking in the voice of someone who was? They should be making that complaint, not you. If they don't, it's difficult to believe that it's a problem.

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Member4445

However since you really want to go there, how do you think it would feel to find a community you understand and who understands you, to be able to connect to them through shared experience and become comfortable in your own identity enough to help others figure out there own. Then all of a sudden, that very community tells you that you are no longer asexual because your experience is different to theirs. Suddenly, you are being pushed out of a place you enjoy and where you feel you belong, that some people get really nasty about it. And you're told you need to leave Aven because it isn't a site for Sexuals.

Have you been pushed out of AVEN because of that? Have you been told to leave AVEN because of that? If not, why are you speaking in the voice of someone who was? They should be making that complaint, not you. If they don't, it's difficult to believe that it's a problem.
Because I was? This isn't coming from nowhere. I said this in the OP.

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timewarp
Just accept it already - sex-favorable aces are a small minority among aces. Both sex-indifferent and sex-repulsed aces are a lot more common - each of those grioups, by themselves, and especially both of these groups put together.

Citation needed.

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Book Witch

AVEN was founded on the premise that there are humans on this planet who do not experience sexual attraction. Period. Why is there such an intense need for the focus of the site to redirect to enjoying the feeling of sex? Visibility is needed for people who don't fit into the sex-favourable scene at all because at least 90% of the human population assumes that not desiring sex and not enjoying sex is just plain wrong and abnormal. People are slowly being educated, and the last thing AVEN needs is more of the status quo, which puts the spotlight on sex norms and gives it the rubber stamp of approval.

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Member4445

There isn't. I want sex favourable asexuals to receive the same level of representation as sex repulsed asexuals.

I want sex favourable asexuals to not have their identity erased by the sexual world and their fellow asexuals. I want newly identified asexuals to feel comfortable and not pushed out by accusations that they aren't really asexual. You know how shitty it is to be told asexuals aren't real by sexuals. But you have no idea how it feels to be told that you aren't real by sexuals and your fellow asexuals. You've literally just said in your post that our experiences don't matter, that we don't count.

Which absolutely proves my point, by the way. Also, being a sex favourable asexual is a completely difference to being sexual and sex repulsed asexual, you feel even more invisible.

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SkyWorld

:blink:

*casually brings this back up*

I've seen both sex-repulsed and sex-favorable aces push each other out. It's not cool, and both "sides" are just as guilty. I feel that it's okay for people to talk about things and talk with others who can relate, but nobody, from either "side" should push another out. And sharing a space is important to understand one other and learn from each perspectives. Yes, they could still have their own spaces so they can talk more freely with people who can relate, but I just don't think it should be completely polarized and separate from each other and would only make the community more segregated.

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FictoVore.

sex-favorable ace, like ''having sex with females favourable gay man''

...''I'm a gay man but I prefer sex with women, I'm not really into sex with men.. it's about attraction not who you want to have sex with'' ..Cool story bro :p

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warrigan

absolutely agreed on everything.

and probably not a popular opinion, but.....why do people care? if i think someone's identifying as asexual when they maybe aren't ace, i don't have a problem with it! i think that either i don't know their full situation + can't judge, or that i'm glad they've found a label that they feel is comfortable, and a community that is welcoming and accepting- and ultimately, they'll either keep the label or they won't. it doesn't hurt me either way, the asexual label doesn't "belong" to me, so it's not up to me to validate or invalidate their identity.

bottom line, someone else's identity is not for me to police or judge, and i think that the trend towards that sort of attitude is making aven a less inclusive community. no one should have to prove anything to anyone else to feel comfortable using a label!

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ithaca

sex-favorable ace, like ''having sex with females favourable gay man''

...''I'm a gay man but I prefer sex with women, I'm not really into sex with men.. it's about attraction not who you want to have sex with'' ..Cool story bro :P

I believe that this comparison has a clear flaw: asexual people do not experience sexuality in the same way that sexual people do, and some of us might be interested or might enjoy sex in different ways or for different reasons compared to sexuals. If we draw a comparison between sex-favourable aces and sexuals (e.g. the gay community) to ridicule and discredit sex-favourable aces (which is not cool and should not happen anywhere, AVEN as last of all places), should we draw a similar comparison then and say that many gay folks are repulsed by homosexual sex when they-re in denial toward their real orientation, therefore sex-repulsed aces are actually just gay in denial? This battle at discrediting and hurting each other could go on forever, but is it really in the best interest of anyone?

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Sphene

I thought sex-favourable = comfortable with sexuality and talking/joking about sex and had little to do with desiring sex and that whole debate which seems to creep into every serious thread on AVEN.

Anyway, I think parts of AVEN are plenty sex-positive. JFF is up to its butt in sexual humour.

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Mysticus Insanus
Just accept it already - sex-favorable aces are a small minority among aces. Both sex-indifferent and sex-repulsed aces are a lot more common - each of those grioups, by themselves, and especially both of these groups put together.

Citation needed.

That's been the indication in every poll on here up to now. I do find it highly interesting that Ciri's new poll - which I thoroughly applaud having been made, BTW! - is the first one where the faves are almost as numerous as the indiffs.

Nonetheless, even in that one, it again confirms that repulsed aces come out as the largest share, by far. That should be absolutely no surprise to anybody. Most asexuals are sex-repulsed, and yes, the sex-favorables do have to just accept that already.

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Sally

I'd be that most asexuals who had sex for years are now sex-repulsed. You can start out being sex-indifferent, but after years of it, it really gets to you.

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