ethical obligations

[butterflydreams]

I'm wondering about the ethical obligations regarding asexuals in relationships with sexuals where sex is largely a question mark.

Example:

Asexual Andy isn't sure how he feels about sex. He thinks he could, but doesn't feel like he can make any promises. Once in a relationship, it could happen, if conditions were right. He doesn't know what those conditions would be, or how long they might take to arise. Soon, later, never?

Sexual Sarah is interested in Asexual Andy. She knows he's asexual, but doesn't really know how he feels about sex, (neither does he). What are Sexual Sarah's ethical obligations to Asexual Andy in terms of communicating her intentions/desires? What are Asexual Andy's ethical obligations to Sexual Sarah in terms of communicating his understanding of himself?

And a twist:

Asexual Andy is unsure of his romantic orientation on top of everything else. He's willing to explore and try to date people to see what happens. He thinks there might be a real spark for him with other men, but it's also possible there will be nothing there. What are his ethical obligations (if any) when seeking out potential partners?

[Philip027]

I don't really feel like anyone is *obligated* to proffer anything unless the other person actually asks. (Note that this doesn't necessarily mean you should just say nothing unless you're asked; you can share whatever you feel like. Just, it isn't an obligation and I will never agree to it being called an obligation.) We are not mindreaders, we are not meant to be able to just tell what's important to the other person, nor should we be.

My take on this whole matter is very possibly colored somewhat by my Asperger's, because it doesn't feel like a very... popular sort of opinion.

[butterflydreams]

Yeah, I guess the "obligation" part comes if someone down the line is going to start accusing Asexual Andy of leading them on. Maybe some partner, or potential partner, interpreted Andy's actions such that sex was likely to happen. After all, Andy is unlikely to explicitly say 'no' in the beginning, because he doesn't know.

From what I understand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but sexuals are the norm, and some type of sexual contact is probably assumed to be a given by a lot of people with a partner. Declared asexual or otherwise.

So what happens if it gets down to it, and Andy discovers it's not what he thought and has to say 'no'? Maybe Sexual Sarah gets pretty pissed, and now Andy's in a nasty situation. Could it have been avoided or mitigated somehow in advance?

Of course, you're always allowed to say 'no' at any time and for any reason, but I personally wouldn't want to let someone get that far with me with no reasonable indication that I wasn't going to 'put out' and then slam on the brakes.

[Evren]

I think everyone should sit down and have a frank discussion of what their okay with and not okay with, when entering a relationship. And Andy can say, "I don't know." There's nothing wrong with, "I don't know, or I think I might, but I'm not sure." As long as everyone is truthful, these things tend to work out much better.

[daveb]

I agree with what Evren said. I don't see it as about ethics so much as about communication and being a good partner (to have a good relationship I think you have to be a good partner, so you can say it's self-serving; but I also believe it's best for everyone).

[butterflydreams]

Hmm, ok, I was wondering if this was going to come down to communication.

The reason I'm exploring this question is because I'd like to explore my new, more complete self. I'd like to try date different kinds of people and see what clicks. But in advance, I won't know what's going to click and what isn't, and how far I'll be able to go before having to stop.

[m4rble]

Example:

Asexual Andy isn't sure how he feels about sex. He thinks he could, but doesn't feel like he can make any promises. Once in a relationship, it could happen, if conditions were right. He doesn't know what those conditions would be, or how long they might take to arise. Soon, later, never?

And a twist:

Asexual Andy is unsure of his romantic orientation on top of everything else. He's willing to explore and try to date people to see what happens. He thinks there might be a real spark for him with other men, but it's also possible there will be nothing there. What are his ethical obligations (if any) when seeking out potential partners?

This example seems to fit me to a T. I don't even know if I would be better with men or women.(This is only an issue because people often say they feel nothing for the "wrong" gender, and for me it's a bit like I'm feeling around in the dark) :(

Yeah, I guess the "obligation" part comes if someone down the line is going to start accusing Asexual Andy of leading them on. Maybe some partner, or potential partner, interpreted Andy's actions such that sex was likely to happen. After all, Andy is unlikely to explicitly say 'no' in the beginning, because he doesn't know.

From what I understand (someone correct me if I'm wrong), but sexuals are the norm, and some type of sexual contact is probably assumed to be a given by a lot of people with a partner. Declared asexual or otherwise.

So what happens if it gets down to it, and Andy discovers it's not what he thought and has to say 'no'? Maybe Sexual Sarah gets pretty pissed, and now Andy's in a nasty situation. Could it have been avoided or mitigated somehow in advance?

Of course, you're always allowed to say 'no' at any time and for any reason, but I personally wouldn't want to let someone get that far with me with no reasonable indication that I wasn't going to 'put out' and then slam on the brakes.

Personally, I think the way people insist people must declare they are asexuals the minute they enter a relationship is ridiculous. I mean, honestly, do most people even know how they would feel about sex with someone until they get there(genuine question)? Sex wouldn't even be on the radar until much later in the process I would think. Even among two sexual people a lot of sexual incompatibilities might come up that are difficult to predict. I'm kind of annoyed with some of the rants sexual partners have made on this website about how their asexual partners "led them on". Maybe that's because I don't really think I would have an option to not "lead someone on" because I don't even know what my orientation is. Dating is hard enough as it is.

[butterflydreams]

Personally, I think the way people insist people must declare they are asexuals the minute they enter a relationship is ridiculous. I mean, honestly, do most people even know how they would feel about sex with someone until they get there(genuine question)? Sex wouldn't even be on the radar until much later in the process I would think. Even among two sexual people a lot of sexual incompatibilities might come up that are difficult to predict. I'm kind of annoyed with some of the rants sexual partners have made on this website about how their asexual partners "led them on". Maybe that's because I don't really think I would have an option to not "lead someone on" because I don't even know what my orientation is. Dating is hard enough as it is.

That's a very good point, that even two sexual people might not see eye to eye on the same stuff. I hadn't really thought about that. I guess I just assumed that being the abnormality in the equation, the onus to do something would be on me.

I can't say I've seen sexual partners suggesting asexuals "led them on" on here myself. But I do know I personally wouldn't want to lead someone on, even by accident, if I could help it.

[m4rble]

Personally, I think the way people insist people must declare they are asexuals the minute they enter a relationship is ridiculous. I mean, honestly, do most people even know how they would feel about sex with someone until they get there(genuine question)? Sex wouldn't even be on the radar until much later in the process I would think. Even among two sexual people a lot of sexual incompatibilities might come up that are difficult to predict. I'm kind of annoyed with some of the rants sexual partners have made on this website about how their asexual partners "led them on". Maybe that's because I don't really think I would have an option to not "lead someone on" because I don't even know what my orientation is. Dating is hard enough as it is.

That's a very good point, that even two sexual people might not see eye to eye on the same stuff. I hadn't really thought about that. I guess I just assumed that being the abnormality in the equation, the onus to do something would be on me.

I can't say I've seen sexual partners suggesting asexuals "led them on" on here myself. But I do know I personally wouldn't want to lead someone on, even by accident, if I could help it.

Me too. A lot of the threads by sexual partners on here on great. I actually had one particular thread in mind that seemed especially annoying and accusatory.

[nanogretchen4]

I think if you know something about yourself that would be a deal breaker for the majority of the population, you are required to reveal it by the third date. Since Sexual Sarah knows that Asexual Andy is asexual but is dating Andy anyway, Andy has fulfilled his obligation in this matter. Ideally Andy should start by saying that he will probably never be willing to have sex. If later he decides he is open to compromise that will probably be a pleasant bonus for Sarah, so she won't be angry that he didn't tell her sooner. If Sarah in good faith thinks that she can handle a sexless relationship but later finds out that she can't, that's a no fault situation, just like if Andy had no idea he was asexual at the beginning of the relationship. If Sarah entered the relationship thinking she would convert Andy to a sexual somehow I guess she should have revealed that up front, but really that relationship shouldn't have survived the third date in the first place.

If Andy is homoromantic rather than biromantic, he probably shouldn't be dating women at all. For sure he should reveal that by the third date at the absolute latest.

[deactivated account]

awkward when your friends name is Sarah and she's pretty sexual XD

As i'm asexual andy, I'd feel obligated to explain myself from day one. it's not something i want to do, but because i still don't understand myself 100% i feel as if i have no choice but to

"He's willing to explore and try to date people to see what happens. He thinks there might be a real spark for him with other men, but it's also possible there will be nothing there." and since i can relate to this, i'd also feel the need to explain all that to potential partners.

​I've seen how people react to asexuals and it's scary sometimes. If they know all of this and they still want to be with me. then they have 0 right to blame anything on me. as i didn't lead them on and they can only expect so much from me.

unfortunately, i'd have to compare it to being trans, some people's partners react very badly to it. So many would feel pressured into telling their partner, maybe not from day one, but by the 3rd date or something like that. but personally i think the earlier the better. the whole "you were leading me on" thing is super annoying.

another reason why i won't confess my romantic feelings to anyone: i'm unsure of my capabilities in a relationship and i don't want to lead anyone on.

in this particular situation

"Sexual Sarah is interested in Asexual Andy. She knows he's asexual, but doesn't really know how he feels about sex, (neither does he). What are Sexual Sarah's ethical obligations to Asexual Andy in terms of communicating her intentions/desires? What are Asexual Andy's ethical obligations to Sexual Sarah in terms of communicating his understanding of himself?"

​they should be communicating about this in the first stages of their relationship. :U it really stresses me out that sex is such a big deal, but it is,

literally, i think people should be getting to know each other and spending time with each other, in the first stages of their relationship. not what they're capable or not capable of doing in bed! ffs

but such is life. unfortunately sex is the deal breaker and maker in relationships.

"I can't say I've seen sexual partners suggesting asexuals "led them on" on here myself. But I do know I personally wouldn't want to lead someone on,"

and this... a lot of the sexuals that are here are very understanding/curious people that have come across asexuality in their life, whether that's a partner or friend etc. The sexuals here are nice people. so i'm still iffy about the leading on thing, because i've seen a forum full of it (not on here, some guy was just concerned about his asexual girlfriend, and pretty much everyone that replied was saying how he "needs to get a real girlfriend" or that "she's not his girlfriend, she's just a friend" etc etc)

[Tarfeather]

There are no obligations..

[Guest]

IMO one should be honest with a partner. Meaning, Andy should say "I don't know, but I am willing to try to find out" and Sarah should say "I don't know if I can stay if it doesn't happen for you, but I am willing to stick around and see until we know" (if she is, if no sex would be a deal breaker, etc). Just have an open, honest discussion about expectations and deal breakers.

[OutsideObserver]

Personally, I think the way people insist people must declare they are asexuals the minute they enter a relationship is ridiculous. I mean, honestly, do most people even know how they would feel about sex with someone until they get there(genuine question)? Sex wouldn't even be on the radar until much later in the process I would think. Even among two sexual people a lot of sexual incompatibilities might come up that are difficult to predict. I'm kind of annoyed with some of the rants sexual partners have made on this website about how their asexual partners "led them on". Maybe that's because I don't really think I would have an option to not "lead someone on" because I don't even know what my orientation is. Dating is hard enough as it is.

The overwhelming majority of sexuals assume a long-term romantic relationship will be a sexual one. If two sexuals start dating and decide there's some sort sexual incompatibility, they are not going to shrug and keeping dating without having sex. They will move on to people that are sexually compatible with, because having a sex life with their partner is what they need to have a happy relationship.

If you are asexual and can't really have sex, then you are incompatible romantically with an enormous percentage of the world. The chances of the random person you agree to go out with coincidentally being one of the tiny percentage of people who a sexless relationship is not a deal-breaker is, again, very very unlikely.

That's why you need to come clean and explain early on your stance on sex. There might be ethical concerns, but truthfully you need to tell people early on in the relationship so that you don't waste your time and energy, or your date's time and energy, pursuing something that was doomed from the start.

There's only two reasons I can think of for delaying the sex conversation, and neither are good excuses: 1) you are nervous/anxious/embarassed to talk about that to someone you may not know very well, or 2) you are hoping that you can get the potential partner attached to you enough that they will try to soldier on with you despite the fact that no sex is really not something they would normally be happy with or accept.

The first excuse is understandable (especially for trans folk who I know are super at risk for a violent reaction) but not constructive, but the second is the only one that I would consider unethical (also a touch naive, you can't make other people's wants and needs go away with the power of love).

[henshin]

I've been in relationships where I haven't declared my asexuality but only because I wasn't aware of it or identifying as such at the time. Through the course of those relationships I had sex, but it became apparent quite early on that there was something wrong with our sex life and this contributed to the natural break up of the relationship.

After discovering and identifying as asexual, I have always come out to that person when it looked like the relationship was on the cards. For one partner, it turned out they thought this would be fine but ultimately came to conclusion after 2 years that they couldn't be in a sexless relationship, and for the other, they've accepted that this might be the case and are ok with it (at least that's what they've told me!).

So yeah, tell people if you know, but if you're unsure about your sexuality then don't feel bad for figuring out later. People are human. Just don't be an ass about it.

[butterflydreams]

So it seems like being honest is the right way forward (which I can agree with).

It seems a little weird to me to pop out very early with someone new and say "I'm not sure I can do sex". Any sense about how the average sexual person might respond to that? Saying you can is one thing, and saying you can't is another, but the maybe seems like it's rife with potential problems, for both people.

[Tarfeather]

It seems weird to me to date people who aren't already your friend.

... maybe I'm weird.

[deactivated account]

"For one partner, it turned out they thought this would be fine but ultimately came to conclusion after 2 years that they couldn't be in a sexless relationship,"

o-o ^ one of my fears

​and sex first thing on the conversation menu is definitely weird. I wonder how someone would actually respond to that. especially if it comes up before the relationship is even canon.

XD where do you start and finish? and at what stage does it become TMI? OAO what if they tell someone?

[deactivated account]

It seems weird to me to date people who aren't already your friend.

... maybe I'm weird.

100% agree. either it's not weird, or we're both weird

[butterflydreams]

It seems weird to me to date people who aren't already your friend.

... maybe I'm weird.

100% agree. either it's not weird, or we're both weird

No, not weird.

Though I've had people, who I just met (albeit on dating sites, so there's already some kind of expectation) get into it with me after a message or two: "so, asexual, huh? What does that mean in terms of sex?"

And even if someone is already your friend. If you go from friend to partner, the question still might come up, and admittedly, I'd still feel weird.

[Guest]

Disclose what you know and how you feel... that's about all you can do. If you're new to the sex/ relationship stuff, then I think there's less to disclose. If someone came to me and was like "I'm a virgin and I don't really know what I like and what I'll be down with", then that gives me about as much information as I need. You don't know what you're going to want/like, and for me personally, I'm fine with that. I'm very flexible so I don't mind exploring with people. Some folks aren't flexible, or are older and don't want to worry that the inexperienced person is going to bail or freak out or whatever... but for those who are willing to stick around, they already know that there's no promises in that situation. If AsexualAndy is also trans, I think making it clear that you've not had positive romantic/ sexual experiences prior to transition, and you've had no romantic/sexual experiences since beginning transitioning, then again I think you've disclosed as much as necessary.

If you're just a regular ol' asexual person, however... not someone who's transitioning or who is trying to explore/discover, you gotta disclose immediately. It's manipulative and dishonest to intentionally keep relevant information out of someone else's hands.

[Guest]

Oh and as far as timing... I tend to have sex by date two, and talk about sex in date one, so waiting until the relationship is "official" is waaaaaay too late. If I was seeing a guy who ID's as gay, can't fall in love with me but doesn't mind the occasional hetero sexytimes, it sure as fuck would be cruel for him to keep the fact that he's gay a secret! Asexuality is an orientation and it needs to be disclosed ASAP.

[butterflydreams]

Disclose what you know and how you feel... that's about all you can do. If you're new to the sex/ relationship stuff, then I think there's less to disclose. If someone came to me and was like "I'm a virgin and I don't really know what I like and what I'll be down with", then that gives me about as much information as I need. You don't know what you're going to want/like, and for me personally, I'm fine with that. I'm very flexible so I don't mind exploring with people. Some folks aren't flexible, or are older and don't want to worry that the inexperienced person is going to bail or freak out or whatever... but for those who are willing to stick around, they already know that there's no promises in that situation. If AsexualAndy is also trans, I think making it clear that you've not had positive romantic/ sexual experiences prior to transition, and you've had no romantic/sexual experiences since beginning transitioning, then again I think you've disclosed as much as necessary.

Once again Skulls, hitting me with the hard truths. I'm sure you're wise enough to understand how hard it might be for someone, especially someone who's older, to come clean about so much of this stuff. If they're a virgin, or not sure what they like, or if they'll like anything at all. 17, 18, 19? Who gives a shit? Approaching 30? The number of people with the patience for that stuff is reduced.

If you're just a regular ol' asexual person, however... not someone who's transitioning or who is trying to explore/discover, you gotta disclose immediately. It's manipulative and dishonest to intentionally keep relevant information out of someone else's hands.

Hehe, well I wasn't really implying anything about Andy's gender, but I'd be lying if I said that wasn't part of the reason I'm asking about this.

Of course that aspect would make it more complicated, wouldn't it?

Just noticed my own thinking in this presumes that the other person wouldn't actually want me at all. Regardless of how I felt. Gotta stop thinking that way -_-

[Guest]

In most of my dating experiences (dated four guys), sex came up fairly quickly. By around date 1-2. Some before we started dating! But, I tend to like friendship to relationship, not dating strangers... so like if they expressed romantic interest in me I'd say I needed time to see if I was up for it. Then if we dated, I would say OK to this or not OK to that. My first boyfriend, we talked about sex very early, but we didn't have it til 6 months into our RL relationship and 1 1/2 years into our relationship (it started online). I had to tell him I wasn't sure when I would be ready. I had to tell him about my sexual abuse past. I had to tell him a lot of stuff I was not comfortable talking about. But, I felt I owed him those explanations, if I was going to ask him to be with me without something he wanted.

Andy doesn't want to be like "Hi my name is Andy and I am asexual, so I don't think I want to have sex with you!", but once he's in the "Hey I think you're cool, I may want to be more than just casual no strings dating for you" ... he should be able to have a basic conversation about something personal. And if after a few dates, he isn't feeling the "Hey maybe I want more", he should probably let the person know he wants to keep things casual until further notice.

[Tarfeather]

I'm sure you're wise enough to

No. >_>

If they're a virgin, or not sure what they like, or if they'll like anything at all. 17, 18, 19? Who gives a shit? Approaching 30? The number of people with the patience for that stuff is reduced.

Many of my friends actually haven't had a serious relationship until age 22 or so, myself and C. even later. That you have so little experience at that age, only speaks for your personality and high standards. It's not unusual to be unable to find someone who "matches" you for a long time, and not settling for anything "less" than a decent match says good things about you.

It also says good things about the chance of that relationship working out in the long term when you do find that match. It's just so completely different, when two people who have been looking for a long time, and have been lonely for a long time, finally find each other, compared to two people who have an easy as hell time finding a relationship, having "Yet Another Partner ".

Just noticed my own thinking in this presumes that the other person wouldn't actually want me at all. Regardless of how I felt. Gotta stop thinking that way -_-

It's not entirely wrong to think that way. Basically, you're thinking a little too far ahead. Your first aim should be to find people who like you as you are, and who could fall for you. Then when there are a lot of people who are like "I'm totally in love with you, but your asexual/trans/whatever status makes it so I just can't do it", then that's something to worry about. Until then, the having someone fall for you in the first place should be your main concern.

And yes, there is no reason to assume they wouldn't want you at all.. On the other hand, I don't blame you for feeling that way. If it's the overwhelming experience. Not a single woman in my life has fallen for me, outside the context of already knowing me really well, and being good friends with me already. It makes me feel unattractive and undesirable. I think if your life experience is like that, it's very rational and realistic to assume this won't change in the future; However, it's also not very productive. Hope can be a good thing sometimes.

On that note, though, I do have something to tell you; I will tell you in PM, though, as it's kind of personal.

[OutsideObserver]

Andy doesn't want to be like "Hi my name is Andy and I am asexual, so I don't think I want to have sex with you!", but once he's in the "Hey I think you're cool, I may want to be more than just casual no strings dating for you" ... he should be able to have a basic conversation about something personal. And if after a few dates, he isn't feeling the "Hey maybe I want more", he should probably let the person know he wants to keep things casual until further notice.

It's certainly not necessary to tell people you are ever actually planning on dating, nor do I think that it's necessarily even necessary for the first date. I tend to agree with people that say Date #3 is the deadline for full disclosure. I've taken gals out on a single date just for fun, no expectations of sex. But a second or third date means you are actually pursuing a romantic connection with the other person. That's when you have to bite the bullet and talk about sex.

[Guest]

Disclose what you know and how you feel... that's about all you can do. If you're new to the sex/ relationship stuff, then I think there's less to disclose. If someone came to me and was like "I'm a virgin and I don't really know what I like and what I'll be down with", then that gives me about as much information as I need. You don't know what you're going to want/like, and for me personally, I'm fine with that. I'm very flexible so I don't mind exploring with people. Some folks aren't flexible, or are older and don't want to worry that the inexperienced person is going to bail or freak out or whatever... but for those who are willing to stick around, they already know that there's no promises in that situation. If AsexualAndy is also trans, I think making it clear that you've not had positive romantic/ sexual experiences prior to transition, and you've had no romantic/sexual experiences since beginning transitioning, then again I think you've disclosed as much as necessary.

Once again Skulls, hitting me with the hard truths. I'm sure you're wise enough to understand how hard it might be for someone, especially someone who's older, to come clean about so much of this stuff. If they're a virgin, or not sure what they like, or if they'll like anything at all. 17, 18, 19? Who gives a shit? Approaching 30? The number of people with the patience for that stuff is reduced.

Is it? With the right person, it shouldn't be. I know that's a lame, cop out answer though.

[Telecaster68]

Sex wouldn't even be on the radar until much later in the process I would think.

Not as a specific thing, but since dating is about finding the right person to be in a relationship with, and most relationships involve sex, sexuals wouldn't date someone they knew they would never want to have sex with. Ninety-nine percent of people are sexual, so it's a sensible assumption that your date is at least open in principle, perhaps, to having sex. Lots of reasons why a few dates later that might not happen, but that's very different from it being a hard boundary right from the off.

[Telecaster68]

Disclose what you know and how you feel... that's about all you can do. If you're new to the sex/ relationship stuff, then I think there's less to disclose. If someone came to me and was like "I'm a virgin and I don't really know what I like and what I'll be down with", then that gives me about as much information as I need. You don't know what you're going to want/like, and for me personally, I'm fine with that. I'm very flexible so I don't mind exploring with people. Some folks aren't flexible, or are older and don't want to worry that the inexperienced person is going to bail or freak out or whatever... but for those who are willing to stick around, they already know that there's no promises in that situation. If AsexualAndy is also trans, I think making it clear that you've not had positive romantic/ sexual experiences prior to transition, and you've had no romantic/sexual experiences since beginning transitioning, then again I think you've disclosed as much as necessary.

Once again Skulls, hitting me with the hard truths. I'm sure you're wise enough to understand how hard it might be for someone, especially someone who's older, to come clean about so much of this stuff. If they're a virgin, or not sure what they like, or if they'll like anything at all. 17, 18, 19? Who gives a shit? Approaching 30? The number of people with the patience for that stuff is reduced.

Is it? With the right person, it shouldn't be. I know that's a lame, cop out answer though.

And also - in general, people get more confident about their own identity, and less likely to adapt to other people, as they get older (for good and ill). I'd expect a 30 year old to be less bothered about their virginity than a teenager in many ways.

I'd also suggest it isn't the virginity bit in itself that's the problem - it's the implication that this person may well have some sexual issues, or other deep seated complicated mental stuff going on that would be off putting; just as if they announced they had no friends, or never went out, or a million other factors that are different from the normal range. Might bother a potential partner, might not, and doesn't mean that person's broken or deficient or there's no hope of a lovely relationship.

And with the right person... helping them discover their own sexuality could be absolutely awesome.

[butterflydreams]

Is it? With the right person, it shouldn't be. I know that's a lame, cop out answer though.

I hear this a lot, but the "right people" seem to be awfully scarce in my experience. Other than that, sure, it makes logical sense.

And also - in general, people get more confident about their own identity, and less likely to adapt to other people, as they get older (for good and ill). I'd expect a 30 year old to be less bothered about their virginity than a teenager in many ways.

I'd also suggest it isn't the virginity bit in itself that's the problem - it's the implication that this person may well have some sexual issues, or other deep seated complicated mental stuff going on that would be off putting; just as if they announced they had no friends, or never went out, or a million other factors that are different from the normal range. Might bother a potential partner, might not, and doesn't mean that person's broken or deficient or there's no hope of a lovely relationship.

And with the right person... helping them discover their own sexuality could be absolutely awesome.

I certainly don't feel like I need to be sold on the "helping someone discover their own sexuality" but it doesn't seem to be something I've noticed others interested in buying themselves. I know based on stats I'm in a pretty small percentage at my age. Off the top of my head I think it's like 3-5%. So maybe someone out there, somewhere would be interested in a rarity. Mostly I've experienced double-takes and "you're very sweet, you'd make a great partner for someone, but not for me".