1% of Population Asexual... yet AVEN

[touching-not-so-much]

I was debating posting this for a couple days, but after reading another person's thread, I decided that I needed to post this even more, after the skepticism they were met with by an LGBT site admin.

The general statistic I see is that 1% of "the population" (the US? global?) is asexual. But using statistics, that means they have a very well defined set of criteria that I doubt many sites, including AVEN uses, to the letter anyway, and apparently physiological and psychological issues which may effectively "make" someone asexual, are excluded as well.

My question is, even if you took the extreme outside statistic of 6% I've seen a couple of places, how can the asexual population be SO low, but have so many sites, members, articles and videos and new people signing up everyday (to just AVEN *alone*). I mean yes its the internet and so is not defined to one region, and some people are going to be just confused, but to have marches and networks and a small but cohesive group of youtubers and such, how is asexuality as rare as they say, yet as common? I mean yeah, before I found this a few weeks ago, I knew OF it and there was "a community" but having now looked, there is a surprising presence for a 1% minority.

Is 1% way too low, or are most of us that think we're asexual really not, or is it entirely down to the weird dot-the-i's scientific criteria that underestimates this issue?

[zoom]

I don't consider 1% to be a low number when it comes to public visibility and "the internet stuff".

It is low for meeting compatible partners accidentally, yes, but definitely not too low for "getting enough people interested in this to make a lot of resources". Well, lot of resources... there is basically this one message board for the whole planet, so yeah, there are many posts, of course. Compare it to gay websites - most people will use a website specific for their country / area... or actually go to some club instead of talking online.

[Galactic Turtle]

Might seem small but isn't the LGBT population only about 1.6%? I think I heard that somewhere.

[Welsh Ace]

The 1% comes from a study in the UK but I don't think tha the study was about asexuality in and of itself and about sexual experiences more in general. But the 1% figure is on the slightly low side maybe.

[WinterWanderer]

Is 1% way too low, or are most of us that think we're asexual really not, or is it entirely down to the weird dot-the-i's scientific criteria that underestimates this issue?

I think part of it is people assuming they are asexual when they're not (i.e., maybe they're sexual and just haven't "come into" it yet, or they are subconsciously repressing their sexual feelings). I've seen many members posting that they're asexual, and believing so for years, only to figure out later on that they're actually sexual, or at least in the 'gray' area of sexuality.

But I also think lack of scientific research could be a factor. The 1% statistic comes from a survey that was done in the UK several years ago, in which approximately 1% of respondents (about 190 people out of 18,000) said they have never experienced sexual attraction before. But that was back in 1994, when very little was known about asexuality. Arguably, many people back then who might have been asexual had never considered it before, because it wasn't a very well-known idea that people could NOT have sexual feelings at all.

Idk, that's just what I'm assuming.

[Snao Cone]

A lot of people on AVEN aren't asexual, but partners of asexuals, or people who were once curious if they were asexual, or demisexual people, or a number of other things that led them here.

Also, even though there are 85,000 or however many members, the vast majority of them aren't active, and who knows if that's because they decided they aren't ace?

My last point is that the 1% figure isn't based on decades of rigorous scientific studies on this. The concept of asexuality is still pretty new and definitely understudied.

[Guest]

Well, the way asexuality is currently defined, asexuals can be as much as 50% of the population (or even more) depending on your interpretation of ''sexual attraction'' ..

I mean, we have

-hypersexuals who adore sex and can't live without it, but don't care what the people look like who they have sex with

-people who only desire sex as an intimate expression of their love for their partner but don't want it with randoms

-people who feel 'attraction' to people (as in, find people attractive) but have no desire to have sex with anyone and have no interest in having sex at all, ever.

-people who are so young they have never even held hands with a person let alone thought about sex

-people who only have sex because it feels good, but not because they're interested in the people they have it with

-and people with absolutely no sex hormones present in their body so they have never even become aroused let alone attempted to engage in sex

all identifying as asexual. (As well as a whole lot of other variations of ''I love having sex but I'm still asexual because I don't experience sexual attraction'') edit: and I'm not saying they're not all ace, the third point definitely is ace imo, I was just listing the more common 'ace identities' we have here.

Because ''sexual attraction'' can be defined however you want to define it (sexual people can't even agree on what the hell it is) and a lot of people feel they are special and want a fancy label, so attach to the ''asexual'' thing. OR just haven't met the right person yet, or are too young to know (which as pointed out, happens here all the time)

Only about 1% of the population experience no innate desire to connect sexually with other people, for sexual and/or emotional pleasure, ever. That's what asexuality actually is (because that's the one thing that separates sexuals from asexuals) ...but yeah, the way asexuality is currently defined (and interpreted) anyone is asexual depending on how the way they twist the label.

Might seem small but isn't the LGBT population only about 1.6%? I think I heard that somewhere.

I think it's 1.6% of Americans identify as gay, yeah.

[Rising Sun]

I don't think that asexuality is rare. too many people confuse sexual attraction with romantic attraction. Many romantic asexuals will always refuse to admit that they're asexual because in their mind, asexual and aromantic are the same thing. I tend to think that the 1% number reflects more the number of aromantic and grey-romantic asexuals.

[nanogretchen4]

If the 1% figure is accurate, there should be about 74 million asexuals worldwide. English would be a first language for about four million asexuals, and there are between nine and fourteen million asexuals fluent in English. We're talking about 1% of some pretty large numbers. Even if there were 85,000 actual asexuals on this website, that would be just over one asexual out of every thousand, or six out of every thousand English speaking asexuals. And there aren't all that many major asexual websites and organizations to choose from right now. Honestly I think when asexuals get a little bit better organized and start coming out and forming a cohesive community they will make a much bigger splash than this.

[Guest]

I don't think that asexuality is rare. too many people confuse sexual attraction with romantic attraction. Many romantic asexuals will always refuse to admit that they're asexual because in their mind, asexual and aromantic are the same thing. I tend to think that the 1% number reflects more the number of aromantic and grey-romantic asexuals.

Out of interest, what gives you that impression?

[SemperDave]

Is 1% way too low of an approximation? Well, it's a bit difficult to say really. Is it 1% global, or US, like you pointed out? 1% of the US population would place it right around 3.5 MILLION...that's not a small number in my book...and I think it could very well accurately represent ACEs in that region. How do you define an ACE though....so many different ways...so many different variables....

That being said, I think for whatever variables and definitions they used to reach the 1% mark....it's not crazy to think that may very well be accurate....+/-

[Rising Sun]

I don't think that asexuality is rare. too many people confuse sexual attraction with romantic attraction. Many romantic asexuals will always refuse to admit that they're asexual because in their mind, asexual and aromantic are the same thing. I tend to think that the 1% number reflects more the number of aromantic and grey-romantic asexuals.

Out of interest, what gives you that impression?

Because the first thing I thought when I heard of asexuality was "Oh, this sounds like me... But I can't be completely asexual, as I fell in love once, so I did experience sexual attraction". I was convinced that sexual attraction could be experienced without romantic attraction (as i saw it several times around me), but that romantic attraction was a kind of sexual attraction.

[Guest]

I don't think that asexuality is rare. too many people confuse sexual attraction with romantic attraction. Many romantic asexuals will always refuse to admit that they're asexual because in their mind, asexual and aromantic are the same thing. I tend to think that the 1% number reflects more the number of aromantic and grey-romantic asexuals.

Out of interest, what gives you that impression?

Because the first thing I thought when I heard of asexuality was "Oh, this sounds like me... But I can't be completely asexual, as I fell in love once, so I did experience sexual attraction". I was convinced that sexual attraction could be experienced without romantic attraction (as i saw it several times around me), but that romantic attraction was a kind of sexual attraction.

I am not sure how that made you conclude many people are ace? Regardless of whether or not sexual attraction is involved, almost everyone desires sex as an intimate expression of their love for their partner once romantic attraction has developed. Which doesn't make them ace, that's just normal, or demisexual depending on how rarely they experience that. (demi is still sexual, it's not asexual)

[crafts_not_coitus]

I don't think that asexuality is rare. too many people confuse sexual attraction with romantic attraction. Many romantic asexuals will always refuse to admit that they're asexual because in their mind, asexual and aromantic are the same thing. I tend to think that the 1% number reflects more the number of aromantic and grey-romantic asexuals.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I read somewhere that scientists were only studying people who specifically chose "other" (when orientation choices were listed on a survey as something like: straight, gay, bi, other.) Nowadays, I'd mark something marked specifically as sexual orientation as other, but for the bulk of my life, I've just marked it as straight. If I just saw "orientation," I'd probably still mark straight, because in my mind, romantic orientation is a more powerful identifier of myself than sexual orientation, so that's what I tend to take "orientation" (without specifying sexual orientation) to mean.

Also, I'd like to point out that there has been intense lifelong societal pressure on women born before the mid-80's that, "nobody likes sex, it's what you do to keep your husbands happy" (happy husband being the ultimate measure of whether or not you are successful as a woman,) "it's like having a pap smear or a baby, or your tonsils out, it sucks but you do it anyway for your own good and the good of your family, get comfy in the straight box like the straight woman you are!" and all sorts of nonsense that we are told by our grandmothers, moms, other women, experts, and even therapists and doctors. A lot of us have been walking around for multiple decades thinking of ourselves as "straight people with a serious problem that needs to be fixed." I personally am mildly sex averse, and even averse to tongue-kissing, I've never felt sexual attraction, and even when I had sex for my husband's sake, it was as my duty to keep him, not because I wanted to give him pleasure. The idea of sex being pleasurable is so foreign to me, I just can't fathom it. If I want to truly give him pleasure, I bake something special and watch him enjoy it, because I can understand and connect with that type of pleasure. The day our marriage became officially sexless was the best day of my life. It felt like my body finally mattered, and I got to have a say in what I want to do with it.

Anyway, I digress. Yes, I believe there are more aces out there than science says. Yes, I believe the current studies are using markers that skew data toward asexual extremes and leave out "closeted" and more traditionally-functioning aces. Also, thanks to the internet, it's much easier to surround yourself in a bubble of people that have the same situation as yourself, and forget that your bubble isn't a microcosm of the norm. For example, a gay person who lives in a liberal area, runs in gay social circles, reads gay newsletters, and spends most of their time in gay forums, might say something like, "I don't know how gay people can be only a small percentage of the population, when 90% of the people I know are gay!" Meanwhile, a gay person in rural Arkansas with spotty internet access might feel like they must be one of a very small percentage of gay people in the country.

[ChillaKilla]

Well, 1% of 7 billion is still 70 million, and AVEN has far less users than that.

[Rising Sun]

I don't think that asexuality is rare. too many people confuse sexual attraction with romantic attraction. Many romantic asexuals will always refuse to admit that they're asexual because in their mind, asexual and aromantic are the same thing. I tend to think that the 1% number reflects more the number of aromantic and grey-romantic asexuals.

Out of interest, what gives you that impression?

Because the first thing I thought when I heard of asexuality was "Oh, this sounds like me... But I can't be completely asexual, as I fell in love once, so I did experience sexual attraction". I was convinced that sexual attraction could be experienced without romantic attraction (as i saw it several times around me), but that romantic attraction was a kind of sexual attraction.

I am not sure how that made you conclude many people are ace? Regardless of whether or not sexual attraction is involved, almost everyone desires sex as an intimate expression of their love for their partner once romantic attraction has developed. Which doesn't make them ace, that's just normal, or demisexual depending on how rarely they experience that. (demi is still sexual, it's not asexual)

Which is totally not what I meant. What I mean is that many people are convinced that if they're romantic, they can't be asexual. If you never fall in love, you'll realize that you're asexual much earlier and much more obviously that if you fall in love and the real issue happens only once you're in bed. The number of AVENites shows a high number of aromantics. This number is heavily biased, I'm sure of it.

[Guest]

Well, 1% of 7 billion is still 70 million, and AVEN has far less users than that.

The entire country I live in only has 4 million people haha, so my brain just sort of implodes when I see that figure. It's like, if you took every asexual on the planet and tried to squish them all into this country, they wouldn't fit. That's so many aces!

Which is totally not what I meant. What I mean is that many people are convinced that if they're romantic, they can't be asexual. If you never fall in love, you'll realize that you're asexual much earlier and much more obviously that if you fall in love and the real issue happens only once you're in bed. The number of AVENites shows a high number of aromantics. This number is heavily biased, I'm sure of it.

The majority of asexuals here are romantic, I thought? and most of them never knew there was a ''problem'' until they got into a relationship and the whole ''sex thing'' became an issue. I think being a romantic ace gives someone more of an indication that they're asexual, not less. If you never get in a relationship, how do you know you don't want sex? (for romantic aces, and yes I am aware some 'just know' before they get into a relationship)..Many of the aces here didn't know they were ace until they were in that situation (trying to have sex with a lover and realizing they don't want it). If they hadn't ever fallen in love though, they never would have known they were ace.

http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/133593-the-romantic-census-needs-your-vote/?mode=show

Aromantic got 30% in that poll, though I'd be tempted to make another poll asking ''are you 1) aromantic, 2) romantic'' and see what the results are. Though now that I've said that someone is going to go and do it for me, that's happened every time I've mentioned wanting to make a thread or a poll about something on AVEN haha.

Anyway, I know I just assumed I was ''normal'' until I was actually in that situation where someone desired sex from me and I just.. yeah no. I've met lots of aces like that here.

[Rising Sun]

The easiest way to know if you're asexual is if you're both asexual and aromantic.

If you're asexual and romantic, you experience crushes, and problems start happening only in bed.

If you're sexual and aromantic, you get sexually attracted but people find your reactions weird and cold and accuse you of being a player, so the issues are never visible until you enter a committed relationship.

If you're asexual and aromantic, you don't experience crushes and only desire friendships, and it's immediately visible, as early as middle school, because your classmates notice it, and it's impossible not to notice that there is something weird... For figuring out what you are, it's considerably easier if you're both aromantic and asexual, because both elements "reveal" each other.

[Guest]

The easiest way to know if you're asexual is if you're both asexual and aromantic.

If you're asexual and romantic, you experience crushes, and problems start happening only in bed.

If you're sexual and aromantic, you get sexually attracted but people find your reactions weird and cold and accuse you of being a player, so the issues are never visible until you enter a committed relationship.

If you're asexual and aromantic, you don't experience crushes and only desire friendships, and it's immediately visible, as early as middle school, because your classmates notice it, and it's impossible not to notice that there is something weird... For figuring out what you are, it's considerably easier if you're both aromantic and asexual, because both elements "reveal" each other.

I strongly disagree.

I think it's much easier to tell if you're an ace romantic, because you KNOW you still desire romance, you just can't work out why you don't want sex the way everyone else does, so you start exploring the internet to find answers to explain why you feel the way you do.

If you're an aromantic ace you may not even consider why you don't want sex, as you know you don't want romance so assume it's just a part of that without realizing there is an actual sexual orientation for ''having no innate desire to have partnered sex for sexual and/or emotional pleasure''

I think an aromantic is more likely to be searching the internet trying to find out what ''not wanting romance'' means, whereas a romantic ace is a lot more likely to be looking for answers as to what it means when you don't want to have sex with the person you're in love with.

I know if I was aromantic I never would have found AVEN or discovered asexuality, because the whole ''being asexual'' is only an issue BECAUSE I am romantic. If I was aromantic I wouldn't be interested in romantic relationships (which for most people, sex is an integral part of) so I wouldn't have ended up in a situation (ie a romantic one) that caused me to realize I am different sexually from my partner.

[Rising Sun]

I grew up with strictly no romantic or sexual feelings at all, no kind of attraction at all, so I felt that there was something, I sort of knew it. It was obvious. I wanted only platonic connections. And it was so obvious that there was no way to deny it. When romantic attraction happened for the first time, at 23, (at the time, I confused it with sexual feelings, but sexual feelings happened only years and years later, long after I joined AVEN actually) all it did was completely confuse me and persuade me that I must be just normal. The obvious was much less obvious.

[Snao Cone]

If you're an aromantic ace you may not even consider why you don't want sex, as you know you don't want romance so assume it's just a part of that without realizing there is an actual sexual orientation for ''having no innate desire to have partnered sex for sexual and/or emotional pleasure''

Bingo, for me.

[Guest]

I grew up with strictly no romantic or sexual feelings at all, no kind of attraction at all, so I felt that there was something, I sort of knew it. It was obvious. I wanted only platonic connections. And it was so obvious that there was no way to deny it. When romantic attraction happened for the first time, at 23, (at the time, I confused it with sexual feelings, but sexual feelings happened only years and years later, long after I joined AVEN actually) all it did was completely confuse me and persuade me that I must be just normal. The obvious was much less obvious.

But you're demisexual anyway yes? so it's hard for me to be able to accept that maybe you weren't experiencing confused feelings anyway just a result of your underlying orientation.. like maybe there was that desire there that you were suppressing or whatever which caused confusion once you were in love?

Regardless of that, you're not giving a typical example of a ''romantic asexual person'' anyway. The vast majority of the romantic asexuals I have met here experienced crushes and all that stuff from an average age (like 16ish) and did start noticing they were ''different'' when it came to being intimate with the people they had feelings for. What you're giving is certainly not a common example so I don't think that can be applied to the rest of the population as an example of ''why many romantic people may actually be asexual'' ..Seriously if someone is asexual and in a romantic relationship with a sexual, they are going to know something is ''off'' sexually, whether or not they have a name for it (the same as a someone who doesn't realize they are homosexual and are in a straight relationship, which many romantic aces do initially think maybe they're gay and just with someone of the wrong gender)

Unless the 'ace' is actually demisexual and does end up desiring sex with that person once the bond is deep enough or whatever.

[Busrider]

I recently read an assumption that every 5th American marriage is single side undersexed. <- 4x/year & less vs. "more often". - For which reason ever.

I think the total number of asexuals matters pretty little, since a majority might still prefer to remain closeted? (concerning visibility) And an also huge number might not be problem aware? - I guess there are content spinsters & bachelors somehow distracted from the entire issue.

[ChillaKilla]

Actually, Pan, if you gave every human 2 square feet of ground space, you could fit the entire planet's human population into the area of Los Angeles!

[Philip027]

1) 1% of the population is still a whole fucking lot of people

2) Not everyone who's here is actually asexual

[AVEN #1 fan]

We need a global census or at least with all the AVEN members.

So, I made a poll to find out how many AVENites are asexuals and here it is: http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/140226-i-need-everyones-vote-please-poll/

[Lost247365]

-hypersexuals who adore sex and can't live without it, but don't care what the people look like who they have sex with

I have yet to figure out how that is in anyway different from a Pan-sexual to be honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexuality

I mean I often hear it said that Pansexuality is about being attracted to personalities not genders. So how is that any different? /shrug

[Rising Sun]

I grew up with strictly no romantic or sexual feelings at all, no kind of attraction at all, so I felt that there was something, I sort of knew it. It was obvious. I wanted only platonic connections. And it was so obvious that there was no way to deny it. When romantic attraction happened for the first time, at 23, (at the time, I confused it with sexual feelings, but sexual feelings happened only years and years later, long after I joined AVEN actually) all it did was completely confuse me and persuade me that I must be just normal. The obvious was much less obvious.

But you're demisexual anyway yes? so it's hard for me to be able to accept that maybe you weren't experiencing confused feelings anyway just a result of your underlying orientation.. like maybe there was that desire there that you were suppressing or whatever which caused confusion once you were in love?

Regardless of that, you're not giving a typical example of a ''romantic asexual person'' anyway. The vast majority of the romantic asexuals I have met here experienced crushes and all that stuff from an average age (like 16ish) and did start noticing they were ''different'' when it came to being intimate with the people they had feelings for. What you're giving is certainly not a common example so I don't think that can be applied to the rest of the population as an example of ''why many romantic people may actually be asexual'' ..Seriously if someone is asexual and in a romantic relationship with a sexual, they are going to know something is ''off'' sexually, whether or not they have a name for it (the same as a someone who doesn't realize they are homosexual and are in a straight relationship, which many romantic aces do initially think maybe they're gay and just with someone of the wrong gender)

Unless the 'ace' is actually demisexual and does end up desiring sex with that person once the bond is deep enough or whatever.

No, I actually felt no confusion at all until later in life. To make the story even weirder, I felt no romantic attraction at all until I started taking cyproterone. I also had no sexual feelings, and as for gender identity... I'm still not sure of what it was, but it wasn't female at all. The treatment changed everything. And now, more than a year after I've had to stop, things are shifting again. So, it could be a hormonal issue, I suppose.

Anyway, I didn't suppress anything when I started having romantic feelings. On the contrary, I was very curious, I wanted to experience it. It was a complete failure. Only in my second relationship, sexual feelings have developed, and in the beginning they weren't there and I confused them with desire for cuddles, that I also had with my first love.

One thing is sure, when I was younger, and I didn't have any of these feelings, I was forced to notice that, forced to notice my absence of crushes and my deep desire for friendships as my priority, because others (my classmates and my mother) knew that there was something weird about me and they were decided to make me "pay for it". If I had crushes, I wouldn't have been regularly assaulted, and I would have noticed my difference only in a relationship, not before.

@ Lost : sex addicts look for sex so much that they objectify the people they have sex with, they're abusive and don't realize it. They use people for sex like sex toys. What they have in common is not pansexuality, it's dehumanization of the other in all of their non-platonic relationships in order to satisfy their crazy libido.

Pansexuals don't care about a person's gender, and if I can quote a pansexual former friend of mine : "Physically, I like women more, but what matters to me in my relationships is the person's soul. That's how I'm now with a man."

[Lost247365]

@ Lost : sex addicts look for sex so much that they objectify the people they have sex with, they're abusive and don't realize it. They use people for sex like sex toys. What they have in common is not pansexuality, it's dehumanization of the other in all of their non-platonic relationships in order to satisfy their crazy libido.

Pansexuals don't care about a person's gender, and if I can quote a pansexual former friend of mine : "Physically, I like women more, but what matters to me in my relationships is the person's soul. That's how I'm now with a man."

I guess I misunderstood. I thought Pan-ficto was referring to cupiosexuals and was using the term hypersexual as a bit of hyperbole. Sorry.

[Guest]

-hypersexuals who adore sex and can't live without it, but don't care what the people look like who they have sex with

I have yet to figure out how that is in anyway different from a Pan-sexual to be honest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexuality

I mean I often hear it said that Pansexuality is about being attracted to personalities not genders. So how is that any different? /shrug

It's not any different than pansexuality. I've heard lots of pansexuals describe their sexuality like ''I enjoy sex and the genitals a person has just don't come into the equation for me'' stuff like that. oh and ''desiring sex but choosing sexual partners based on their personality and the connection you have with them, but appearance and gender just isn't a factor'' ...

The way some people here (and off AVEN) define asexuality, it is pansexuality.

Also, there are plenty of sexual people who love sex, but literally don't care about appearance because it's the sex they enjoy and appearance just isn't a factor for them. Appearance isn't important for everyone.

Most of those erm ''asexual identities'' I outlined are just your run-of-the-mill sexual person. But due to the common interpretations of AVENs definition, pretty much anyone can be asexual. So the 1% estimate is just pointless haha.