I don't understand the sex

[dissolved]

And what if multiple people independently come to the same conclusion as Skullery, will you not take them seriously either?

At what point will you start to at least wonder if they're correct? Ten people, 20?

[Danzi]

Tar, I agree with the fact the skullery (or any of us here on aven) don't know who you are better than you and the people around you but I would have to agree with her assessment of your relationship. Afterall, we are basing these judgement off of what you have chosen to portray on aven with what you post...

One does have to question why multiple people come to the same conclusion, independently, based entirely off of the things you yourself have said...

[Tarfeather]

This is like logical fallacy 101 - Bandwagon

[Tarfeather]

Tar, I agree with the fact the skullery (or any of us here on aven) don't know who you are better than you and the people around you but I would have to agree with her assessment of your relationship. Afterall, we are basing these judgement off of what you have chosen to portray on aven with what you post...

One does have to question why multiple people come to the same conclusion, independently, based entirely off of the things you yourself have said...

And you know, I'd be interested to know. So if instead of just saying what you think, without rational explanation, you would explain what it is in what I said that makes you think so, then we can examine whether or not your conclusions are accurate to my reality. But if you just state your conclusion, and I know for a fact that conclusion is false, we're not going to make any progress here.

[binary suns]

I don't think that we as removed internet friends can say much about the status of the relationship, where all we know are his perspectives spoken by his words. even if he used entirely descriptive language, it is still only his feelings and observations that are known, and his partner's habits and personality and thought processes and emotions are entirely unknown to us. and that's assuming that he as a human is any more reliably expressive of his own self than the rest of us, which IMO at least considering myself is not very.

[Tarfeather]

and that's assuming that he as a human is any more reliably expressive of his own self than the rest of us, which IMO at least considering myself is not very.

Yeah, to be honest the only thing I'm questioning right now is my own ability to express myself. And I would like to improve that. Being able to express my emotions accurately is rather important. However, if everyone involved just assumes they interpreted me correctly, and know better than myself how I think and feel, then there's no way I can learn from this. It'll only lead to pointless arguments.

[Philip027]

There's sure a whole lot of unwarranted (and likely unqualified) attempts at psychoanalysis going on in this thread

[Tarfeather]

There's sure a whole lot of unwarranted (and likely unqualified) attempts at psychoanalysis going on in this thread

What do you mean by "unwarranted attempts at psychoanalysis"?

[Philip027]

I mean that I think people are too quick here to draw (negative) conclusions about you and your partner that you never asked for, without sufficient evidence (general example being: "IMO you have an unhealthy view of normal male heterosexuality, therefore it must be your ace partner's fault")

The whole lack of sufficient evidence also makes it likely that these conclusions aren't even accurate in the first place... hence, unqualified.

[Tarfeather]

I mean that I think people are too quick here to draw (negative) conclusions about you and your partner that you never asked for, without sufficient evidence (general example being: "IMO you have an unhealthy view of normal male heterosexuality, therefore it must be your ace partner's fault")

The whole lack of sufficient evidence also makes it likely that these conclusions aren't even accurate in the first place... hence, unqualified.

Well, that's my impression as well, but since so many people express this view, I want to give the benefit of the doubt and assume they have some kind of rational explanation for their conclusions. Something in which I said that gave the wrong idea. So far, though, no substantative argument has emerged, just what from my view amounts to guessing games.

To address your example, when I explicitly state that my issues with sexuality date back to my teen years, then how would this be related to my relationship? There's no indication in what I said that she made this problem worse, and in fact if anyone would listen, I could confidently state that she's made it better, and list numerous examples to give evidence for this statement.

[AthenaFay]

Despite the fact that I'm obviously responding with my own take on this, I kind of want to say that I think it might help you to spend more time listening to yourself rather than anyone else (irl friends, us, online folks, or anyone else). I mean, really be honest, bluntly honest, with yourself about everything.

My own opinion on this (feel free to ignore or correct me of course if I'm wrong, but please know that my intention with this isn't to cause any hurt), I think there could be an element of unintentional hurt caused by your partner. - I say that because to be honest, I think it is quite unavoidable in mixed (asexual+sexual; aromantic+romantic, etc) relationships in which one partner has to repress their sexuality in order to keep things going, and it is simply that dynamic which is fueling or keeping your sense of feeling at odds with your sexuality in place.

So whilst I don't believe either of you should be "blamed" as such, (you love each other, and you cannot (and shouldn't) help who you are as human beings), there can be no such dynamic if there aren't two people holding it up, in which sense you are both responsible. Yet it's continuing the relationship which can easily cement feelings that yes, you should "help" who you are as a person, you should try to change your sexual self, because the relationship will struggle if you don't try to actually change who you are in order to keep it going in a positive way. But is trying to change yourself to suit another person positive? Isn't this the whole problem?

I tend to draw mostly from my own experiences when I respond to threads here, and I relate a lot to many things you have said with regards to your feelings toward your own sexuality. How can we happy and feel at ease with the ravenous, sexual, animalistic sides of ourselves when we have someone we love, and who loves us, but who can't share it with us? What can we do aside from repress it or vent it elsewhere? How can we maintain a sense of confidence in those wilder sides of ourselves and our relationship whilst needing to keep it shut away from the person we wished we could share it with the most? I don't know if it's possible.

Whilst your issues with your sexuality predate your relationship, it can be this relationship - with this mixed dynamic - which helps retain those feelings of shame rather than help to heal them, regardless of the help and care that she offers you. When you speak about your girlfriend, she reminds me so much of my asexual ex, who was the most open, helpful, encouraging and intelligent person I ever met, let alone formed a close relationship with. Seriously, he was a freaking sexual genius, and he had likely became so because he approached sex with a clear mind and absolute clarity, (the precise approach that he had toward sex was never scattered by arousal or sexual desperation, and so he was very sharp in his mentality toward it). And yet, like my partner, she herself could be the most helpful person you've ever met, but merely the fact that you cannot have the sexual relationship with her that you want could be hurting you, and therefore be keeping some of your sexual issues in place. - It isn't that your sexual issues that predate your relationship are related to anything wrong she has done, but maybe that the relationship isn't helping those problems, or that it is helping keep those problems present on account of the incompatibility.

Regardless of my exes amazing encouragement with my feeling confident in my own sexuality, the fact was that I was still living and breathing and getting horny in an environment in which I had to be aware (or "beware", lol) myself, because when it came to feeling confident with my sexual feelings toward him, I had to be tell myself: "Don't get carried away", or "watch it", and then it became things like, "eh, I wish my sex drive would shut the fuck up.. stop it... stop it, stop it... don't think like that, stop, you know you aren't going to have him that way, so don't even try". In such a short time of retaining that relationship, it became ingrained: I am an overly horny piece of shit who mentally sexualizes this innocent man who did not want to consent to sex with me, and I probably don't deserve him anyway. Of course, he would be the first to console me and tell me that there is nothing wrong with me, but - what do I do? I couldn't have him and I wanted him so badly. It fucking hurt. I hurt, so badly. For me, that dwindling sexual confidence turned pretty easily into feeling guilty, shameful, lonely, and unwanted. It was all well that he wanted to help my attitude toward my sexuality, but here I was, with a "perfectly healthy", commendable sexuality that my aro-ace was encouraging me to accept and feel good in, that I literally had to repress if I wanted a relationship with him. And this was still regardless of the hour-upon-hour long conversations we would have about sex and our drives, and how he wants me to be so happy and carefree and confident and healthy in my own sexuality. It's a painfully innocent, beautifully unintentional mind-fuck to live that.

Regardless of his wonderful intentions for my mentality about my drive, my sex drive of course was still there, and if it's there, and it's getting continuously repressed, then it has to get internalized somewhere, as something else, and for me, that ended up as a bunch of horrendous things (which later emerged in my current relationship which I'll touch on a bit later). For you, it could (could) be that it is keeping in place your feelings of stigma toward your sexuality. After all, how confusing it is to be brought up in a society which expects you to feel and to be sexual toward your partner, and expects you to feel ashamed for finding women other than her sexually arousing, to then grow up and end up in a relationship which is almost the exact opposite. For you to at all drift into hopes or fantasies or dreams that you could have a sexual relationship with your partner, and to have to mentally tell yourself, "no, that would be wrong", can be so difficult.

Sometimes, when some of us sexuals are in mixed relationships like this, you mosey along together, talking and talking and talking, and loving and loving and loving, sometimes one of you, or both of you, will come to a revelation, or see an end in sight, and you both do everything of your best, and most loving capabilities, and you are grateful for everything you have, and sometimes it feels okay, and sometimes it feels bad, and sometimes it feels like Hell and you're wondering if you can carry on like this. This was my experience, and it might not be yours, but I can't write about this and not bear some warning for the possible continuation of the struggle.

It has been 9 months since I have been in a sexual, romantic relationship with a man whose sex drive matches mine, and there are many times that I burst out crying after sex. I don't feel right. I am desperate for insane amounts of reassurance - I need to know, in as much detail as he can conjure, that he enjoyed it as much as I did, that he needed it desperately, as I did, that he wanted and craved me as I much as I wanted and craved him, that he feels like he needs me this way forever. I'm with someone who has sex with me and I don't believe it. I don't believe him. How could he want me that way? It's like I can't even stand for a sexual experience with him to come to an end, because what if I don't have him that way again? I have never felt so frantic and so ruined about having sexual experiences; finishing sex and then crying horribly about needing such intensity of sexual reassurance from someone in my life. I enjoy it - and then I feel horrendous. I feel like I need more, or for it to never stop so I never need fear or hurt or be in the same pain that I was before in my last relationship. This probably sounds like I'm bragging but I'm in a different but still dark place since I ended my aro-ace relationship.

This is just my experience, but I know that my current problems are caused by my last relationship and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And so the advice that I gave to you at the top of this thread is the same advice I'm trying to take myself even this far on. - Be vigilant about what is really helping, and what really isn't; be careful with yourself. It can feel like for as long as you both love each other, everything between you will be okay somehow, but inwardly battling sexual shame and stigma in the face of a relationship in which you are lovingly but unintentionally repressed from the kind of love life you want isn't without problems, and they can still affect you with their pain even after the relationship ends. - Just as you can't just flick a switch and stop hoping for a sexual relationship with an asexual partner, after having had the experience of trying, and forming the habit of feeling or trying to repress yourself, after that ends, you can't always easily flick a switch and re-enter a sexual relationship with a sexual partner in an easy way. If you are sexual, you are literally training yourself to go against your own nature, and while it feels good to me to have it back again, it feels corrupted right now by my last experience.

[Nigellaseed]

Athenafay...my experience is word for word the same as mine. I hope with time it can be healed but am aware that the experience has changed me and I must adapt and live with it and manage it. Thanks for sharing.

[Guest]

One thing to remember with Tarfeather's relationship is - it's not monogamous, so he's not being forced to only have the sexual expression she allows. He's free to find that sexual expression with someone else, if he wants to and has a willing sexual partner. Which makes it a bit different than monogamous mixed relationships, where the asexual partner not wanting sex would restrict the sexual person to either being celibate, or breaking up.

Personally, I am not willing to judge the relationship without hearing her side of anything. All we hear is what Tarfeather tells us, his interpretation of her feelings, which may or may not be accurate (since it's not coming from the source). Without both sides, it's impossible to say anything about the relationship as a whole, imo.

[Tarfeather]

It has been 9 months since I have been in a sexual, romantic relationship with a man whose sex drive matches mine, and there are many times that I burst out crying after sex. I don't feel right. I am desperate for insane amounts of reassurance - I need to know, in as much detail as he can conjure, that he enjoyed it as much as I did, that he needed it desperately, as I did, that he wanted and craved me as I much as I wanted and craved him, that he feels like he needs me this way forever. I'm with someone who has sex with me and I don't believe it. I don't believe him. How could he want me that way? It's like I can't even stand for a sexual experience with him to come to an end, because what if I don't have him that way again? I have never felt so frantic and so ruined about having sexual experiences; finishing sex and then crying horribly about needing such intensity of sexual reassurance from someone in my life. I enjoy it - and then I feel horrendous. I feel like I need more, or for it to never stop so I never need fear or hurt or be in the same pain that I was before in my last relationship. This probably sounds like I'm bragging but I'm in a different but still dark place since I ended my aro-ace relationship.

*reaches out a hand* I really felt you when I read that.. really felt what it must be like for you. It is with regards to affection instead of sex in my case, but what you said touches on the pain deep in myself as well. Whenever a woman gives me any attention at all, I just.. just want it to continue, I just want to be reassured. I end up "acting tough" or withdrawing, because I don't want the other person to sense just how clingy and desperate I am. And when someone is really nice to me, that just makes it all the more painful when it's over. I think maybe that's part of why just nothing will work out for me in a relationship sense. Who'd want to deal with a broken mess like me?!

Maybe some people here have the wrong idea of what my relationship with C. is like. I had this crush a while ago.. have, really.. and it completely destroyed all the notions I had about my girlfriend, it's like my subconscious used brute force to get me to acknowledge that I'm simply not.. "satisfied" in that relationship. Not satisfied with just her love. There are other things, very important things, that she can not give me.

But listen. ^^ This woman is my best friend in the whole wide world, a friend so important no sexual or romantic partner could ever take precedence over her, a friend for whom I'd give up my happiness and sanity.

Could you guys please just take my word for it, that it's nor an XOR choice between my girlfriend as my best friend and "spouse" in life, and a partner with whom I can share a sexual connection? There's a possibility to have both in my life, I simply don't know yet how that might happen.

[Nigellaseed]

You know I think when people comment on your relationship (like Skulls) I think it comes from a good place and she is probably trying to help like all of us in our worldly experience are trying to protect you. A bit like Tele being a kinda Uncle maybe Skulls could be your big Sis yeah? :)

[chimaera]

.

[Tarfeather]

Shoot. ^^

[chimaera]

.

 

[Tarfeather]

Thank you. :) I'll give it some thought and respond later.

[binary suns]

to complicate things. I more or less agree with chimaera, as far as observing the situation goes - that you seem to be willfully sacrificing your sexuality for the sake of hers.

but my opinion on the matter is different - maybe it is difficult, but you seem to be interested in trying to work out how to continue to see her despite the cost of struggling with the effects of your sexuality. when you ask the site for advice, it seems to me like you are looking for a way to reach a compromise, or to deal with new feelings or thoughts that you didn't expect to encounter.

I feel that it seems like you are not suffering to the point of harm. that the "suffering" you experience is something you are trying to find ways to deal with. If that is indeed what you do want, then continue to do so.

ultimately, only you can determine if this relationship is healthy for you or not. from the sounds of it, it sounds tough, but very healthy.

and tbh. if someone wants to be unhealthy, there's not much a "stranger" on the internet can do about that. if no one had even brought up this discussion, I wouldn't have said anything.

[Tarfeather]

@chimaera: So, I don't want to be defensive about this or anything. Many of the points you've raised are ones I've asked myself, and some of the things you say are accurate. But the grand picture you draw seems rather off the mark, hope it's okay for me to put it that way.

So, the facts I know: she's an aromantic asexual, has no libido, doesn't have a healthy outlook on sex (you said she's affraid of becoming addicted to it), suffered from anorexia, has OCD, has constant need to stay in control of her body (as in, doesn't let herself feel things sexually, and being an aromantic could be a result of suppressing certain emotions as well).

Seems accurate enough.

I also remember you being interested in a girl at university and saying that when your girlfriend found out, she became more affectionate towards you (= she was jealous, felt threatened and insecure). Does she know you are poly? Because it kind of sounds like she's only ok with that as long as she's the only person who's in a relationship with you...

She was worried that me being in a relationship with another woman would negatively affect our relationship. As long as there's no danger of that, I don't think she particularly minds. She's not jealous of my feelings for this other woman at any rate, on the contrary, she's sympathetic.

Based on this, I seriously can't see how she's helping you come to terms with your sexuality. My impression is that you're trying to suppress your sexual desire to accommodate her needs, and dismissing your own feelings in the process...

If my partner told me that he doesn't enjoy when we have sex and only tolerates it, since it's not uncomfortable for him, it would crush me and make me very insecure. It would make me feel like I'm not good enough and that he's had better.

That's not how I perceive it. In my opinion, I don't surpress my sexuality for the sake of my partner. Rather, I'm being respectful of the fact that she does not sexually desire me.

Maybe different people experience this differently, but to me this is no different from the fact that I respect any other woman's lack of sexual desire for me. I don't just go out there and demand sex from women I find attractive. With my girlfriend, at least I get to tell her how I find her attractive, and I can ask her to compromise. So that's a way in which I can be more open about my sexuality, that wouldn't be available to me if she weren't in my life.

I understand that some people desire their partner very strongly, or desire only their partner sexually at all. But I'm not like that. I can have feelings for different women at the same time, and I can develop sexual desire for pretty much any woman I find attractive, regardless of my relationship status. For this reason, possibly, I'd be even more incompatible with a monoamorous heterosexual woman, than with my asexual girlfriend.

She said she's not uncomfortable. I don't think much else matters.

Except, it does. Your feelings matter as well.

True, my feelings matter, or they supposedly do. The feelings of rejection, shame and desperation I experienced for the ten years before I met her, did not seem to matter to anyone. Now there is one person in my life to whom those feelings do matter.

The fact that you're not forcing her to do sexual things she's not comfortable with is a good thing. It shows that you're a good, caring and selfless guy willing to put your partner's needs first, but that's not helping your own sexuality, you're basically trying to suppress your sexual desire and I think this whole thread proves that it's taking its toll.

I would argue that what's taking its toll, is the fact that there is not a soul in this world who desires me sexually. She is not responsible for that, or rather, not very much. If it weren't for her, maybe I'd still be a basement-dweller who makes a wide circle around women IRL. With her in my life, I find it easier to approach and deal with other women, but it's still very difficult for me.

And no, I'm not "good, caring and selfless". I'm the opposite of those things. Which is probably also a part of the explanation for these struggles of mine.

You idealize her, you pretty much worship the ground she walks on, no matter how she treats you, and it kind of seems like you don't believe anyone else could love you, that your only options are: her or no one at all.

You have a point, but I believe that is true for our past more so than for our present. We've really grown together. These days, we spend time together not for the sake of the other or in order to "maintain" our relationship.. Rather, we spend time together because we enjoy each other's presence that much.

So, yeah, I "worship" her, but I feel that this is simply because she really is that awesome, and if I could pick any woman in this world to magically be my girlfriend, it'd still be her. Not that I wouldn't also want a sexual relationship at some point in my life, as I've already said..

[chimaera]

.

 

 

[Telecaster68]

No Tar, you're not bad, callous and selfish. Apart from anything else, you wouldn't be fretting about your friend, or whatever you're calling C at the moment if you were. And, from my own bitter experience, I'll pretty much guarantee there are women who are interested in you, but if you're thinking of yourself as unlovable, you'll be instantly dismissing any signs of interest from them as just not possible. Been there, done that.

Sooner or later, one of them will be the kind who'll jump you though, which will change your self-perception and confidence in yourself, and a while after that you'll think back to a bunch of situations you've been in up to now, and realise actually you've had some offers but you didn't pick up on them.

I will put money on all this.

[zoom]

I think that people who have sex with someone who does not want it (prostitution, rape, "talking her into it") persuade themselves that their sex partners are worse people (some worthless whore!) and treat them as objects - as sex toys.

Well, maybe with the exception of most rape cases, because rape is usually more about control than about sexual pleasure.

And I don't think that sex is expression of something deeper, many people just treat it as some fun activity (but, of course, fun activities should be fun for everybody who is participating, otherwise it is not very nice).

[Telecaster68]

"And I don't think that sex is expression of something deeper"

Not for you, but very often for very many people it is.

[Emery.]

Sorry, I'm rather pissed to have people try to lay the blame, on the only person in this world who at least tried to help me with coming to terms with my sexuality.

I don't blame her, i blame you. I blame you for hiding behind this girl who can't even take care of herself, and remaining handcuffed in a non-functional non-relationship and then being continuously upset for having the exact kind of lifestyle you would logically have with said partner. You can have a happy, enthusiastic, supportive, sexual, mutually loving and affectionate relationship, or you can stay with your "girlfriend", who can't leave you because she has OCD and at this point, you've become part of her routine. So yeah, I blame you for not making choices that make you happy. You make choices that make you unhappy, but most of the blame seems to fall onto women... fake women, specifically, that you've conjured in your head who hate men and all male sexuality. But I suppose that's a convo for another day.

I agree, I did the same mistake a couple of times, including my current bf. Not going for choices that make me happy. Fake men blamed for rejecting me, when in fact I rejected myself and didn't show up out there. Stupid me. End of this BS. I need to become happy with myself.

Psychoanalysis? I can do it more-less :D But I'm inconclusive at this point. Anyhow, the issue bothers you enough to post so long on this thread and to post in general a lot about this. IMHO, Tar, it means you are bothered with this relationship and although you love your gf, you two don't have compatible needs and desires from each other and it makes you unhappy, it makes you feel bad about yourself, when you absolutely shouldn't (at least not for the reason of desiring her). It's difficult. It is. Sometimes it just happens that a relationship doesn't work out no matter how much the two love each other. It's either the relationship or you are projecting your own thoughts into it.

I've been in the place where you blame yourself for sexual desire, with a very similar rationale. In my head, it was just wrong and hurtful to other people. But the reality is it's not. It's normal, it's human.

[Danzi]

I also remember you being interested in a girl at university and saying that when your girlfriend found out, she became more affectionate towards you (= she was jealous, felt threatened and insecure). Does she know you are poly? Because it kind of sounds like she's only ok with that as long as she's the only person who's in a relationship with you...

She was worried that me being in a relationship with another woman would negatively affect our relationship. As long as there's no danger of that, I don't think she particularly minds. She's not jealous of my feelings for this other woman at any rate, on the contrary, she's sympathetic.

Can I ask, what does she expect your other relationships to be like?

If you get another spouse you are going to be giving some of your free time to them (that might have otherwise gone to C), you're going to have things in common with them that you just don't with C (sexual attraction in particular), among other things like NRE that come with establishing a romantic/sexual relationship with a new person. If you are gonna be in an open relationship with her, she should probably accept that these things are going to happen eventually or maybe talk it over with you about if she's actually comfortable with you pursuing other relationships.

[MrDane]

why have sex with someone who is a bit ..meh! about it?

Because being with my love in a sexual way is like recharging my batteries and having happy-bombs exploding in every cell of my body. If she were desiring the sex/me more, then it would be immensely better! ...but the alternative, no sex, is accepting a greyish depression to be 'just how it is!'

It is a fine act of balancing between finding the rigth and functional compromise and the risk of compromising her! I have no intention to have sex with someone, who is against having sex with me, but i do want to nourish the smallest o.k.-ness towards sex. That can be rather stressful for her, though! It is a constant inner battle in my sexual body/mind

[Tarfeather]

But the grand picture you draw seems rather off the mark, hope it's okay for me to put it that way.

Sure, that's fine. Thanks for the feedback. :)

I'm going to point out two more things, if you don't mind:

the fact that there is not a soul in this world who desires me sexually.

I highly doubt it's because you're undesirable/unattractive.

The way other people see you is mostly a reflection of how you see yourself.

I'm not "good, caring and selfless". I'm the opposite of those things.

These two sentences say more about you than you may think.

And just so you know, I wouldn't have used those adjectives if I hadn't believed they were accurate.

You don't give yourself enough credit...

Hey, I'm sorry for not responding to this earlier, but to be honest it hit me too heavily to give a response at first, and then I kind of forgot..

To put this bluntly, I actually cried upon reading this.

I had two appointments with therapists since your response, and in the each of the hour-long sessions with them, I didn't learn nearly so much about myself as I learned when reading this post of yours.

Thank you for this. :)

And I'm working on getting better, and I'm making some progress, but sometimes when I make progress, it's like a rubberband and I get shoved all the way back to hating myself more than ever.

For instance, yesterday I did something horrible to my girlfriend, and when I realized what I'd done and why she was hurt, all I could think was "Yup, this is the kind of shitty person I am. I do stuff like that."

But she's still with me, and she's still happy being with me, so I guess even being horrible, I have some positive qualities that make up for that?

Anyway, I guess I just want to.. accept that I'm kind of horrible, and stand in for myself, and make progress. 'cause I figure, if I stop being afraid of showing the world who I am, if I stop fearing that they'll hate me for my bad sides.. then they'll get a chance to see my good sides, too, and maybe some of them will like me that way.

Oh boy. Sorry for the rant.

But, again, thanks! You helped me so much with this!

[Touchofinsight]

What I'm saying is basically that this "just having fun", "craving" and so on that you speak of, has a lot of depth to it, maybe more than you're consciously giving credit right now. Maybe it's not so obvious to people, for whom this kind of thing would be simple to come by, like natural. For me, it's not, nor has it ever been. There always has been a massive freaking wall between me and other people, in all social respects. So I see very clearly, that even when social interaction (of any kind, not just sex) is just a simple and fun thing for someone, there are actually massively complex underpinnings to that process. And being able to be part of that, no matter how unimportant and shallow it might seem to others, it would actually be an incredibly deep experience to me. Again, not talking about sex specifically, but social interaction in general.

For most of those people they don't seek the answers why their sexual experiences are good... they just enjoy it at face value. If you could understand their experiences you'd be more like them and you wouldn't be seeking further answers to more complex questions and concepts about sexuality. Personally I feel like i have a good grasp on why sex feels so good but I just don't partake because there is a lot of what I would call "Baggage" that comes along with sex that I have decided to avoid. That's not even including stds and children.