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Tarfeather

I don't understand the sex

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Skullery Maid

Too private...

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Pan Ficto. (on hiatus?)

Too private...

Damn I got the notification saying you'd quoted me... That's going to eat me up inside wondering what you said :'c

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Serran

Why are people having sex with someone they're going to break up with? They're in a relationship they feel isn't working out so they want to break up in the near future... yet they still share this enormous amount of intimacy with someone they are going to ged rid of.

Why is that?

For my first boyfriend, why he wanted to have sex with me still even though he was going to break up with me is cause he still did care about me. His brain was saying "this isn't working" while his heart was going "but, I want her". He did eventually, out of honor/duty/whatever (said it was the right thing, because he knew I was crazy enough about him to do anything he wanted, even knowing he was going to break up with me), make it totally platonic, though he said it was a hard thing to keep to.

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dee615

For a lot of people, it's just about the pleasure and the feelings they get from the act. Their sex drives crave that action and that release and they don't need a super close connection with someone to get pleasure from the act.

Very succinctly put!!

I sort of get this on an intellectual level, although as a (sorta grey) asexual, I don't really get it organically. I've felt this way about ex-bfs exactly twice. Which means that if I were to have had intercourse, I would have had it twice in my life. As it is, I'm a virgin at nearly 53. And it doesn't bother me.

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Telecaster68

For a lot of people, it's just about the pleasure and the feelings they get from the act. Their sex drives crave that action and that release and they don't need a super close connection with someone to get pleasure from the act.

As a sexual, I'd say that for all sexuals, it's like that sometimes, and sometimes it's more emotional.

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AthenaFay

Interesting thread!

In the short time I stayed in my relationship with my aro-ace ex after he came out, I actually didn't desire him sexually.

I couldn't even find it in myself to masturbate alone to sexual fantasies involving him anymore. I think part of that was to do with the knock that I took as a person, that everything had completely changed. I was suffering with thoughts of the past, and also of what the future would be, living with a partner who didn't desire me sexually or romantically after 7 years of believing that he did desire me in those ways. I was too crushed to think about having sex with him any more, and if I did in that time, it was in a retrospective way, or a kind of depressed fascination that I wouldn't be having that experience with him any longer.

But that wasn't enough to make me content with the relationship that I didn't desire him sexually any more. I certainly still "ached" for him, romantically, but knowing that there was zero romantic and sexual compatibility threw me into my own kind of "asexuality" toward him. It would never have been sufficient to make me stay, as deep down I am still a very sexual person, and I couldn't live a life knowing that I was cutting myself massively short of many enjoyable experiences I would otherwise love to have and share with someone who feels the same way as me.

[ I am hiding this next bit behind a spoiler as it gets pretty explicit / graphic regarding the enjoyment of sex which some people might really not want to read ]

Regarding the treatment of sex, I think a huge reason that it's treated as a prize is because it kind of is, in a way:
Having a tough day, working hard at something, studying hard, performing menial tasks like house chores, doing grocery shopping, enduring small talk, experiencing uncomfortable situations, etc, along with the general emotional toll and wear-and-tear of everyday bullshit... to then finally get back home into a soft, warm bed and rest in the arms of someone you love, and both unleash all of the pent-up frustrations and aches and pains via sex makes it pretty commonly treated as a sort of natural reward or a prize for getting through the day.

Of course, it's still an expression of something much more deep and profound, but it isn't always (I guess, in cases like casual sex, sleeping around, visting sex workers, etc). For those who desire that kind of sex, it's still enjoyable for a segment of the reason it's enjoyable for those in romantic, committed relationships: it's a lot of fun, and you can let off a lot of steam.

While expression of affection and meaning is a part of it, it's not all of it. Good sex to me can feel a bit like a sort of suspended reality. During sex, I'm not thinking about, well.. really anything, and for a constant worrier like me, that's possibly a good reason that I desire the large extent of sexual activity that I do. My mind almost completely shuts off; everything I do is orchestrated just by desire, pleasure, excitement and the powerful urge to give my partner those feelings too - to encourage and reward his wildness too, and how he thinks, feels and behaves in that same state of sexual arousal. I feel as though I become a lot more animal and a lot less complex; a lot more base and a lot less civilized; a lot more liberated and much less polite and human in the sense that I'm this over-complicated mass of troubles, anxieties and fears. I can let loose and be raunchy, feral, unmannered, uninhibited. My brain shuts off, and all I can really experience or sense in that moment is sensuality and pleasure in who I'm with. Unlike other forms of intoxication (drink, drugs, etc), it feels like a point of mad hedonism which has no downsides (of course if you're protected and it's all safe!). It feels like the rest of the world is gone and I'm free.

Afterwards, I feel like someone pushed the "reset" button on me and I feel mentally recharged, or like a huge weight has been lifted from me.

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Telecaster68

Athena, I don't generally do 'me too' posts, but in this case: 'me fucking too. Exactly.'

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Homer

This was helpful indeed.

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Tarfeather

I have to admit, I'm very confused lately.

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Telecaster68

About what, Tar?

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Tarfeather

Basically, I disagree with my own OP. Maybe as a result of reading some of the posts here, maybe as a result of the gentle experimentation I've been performing on myself since making that post.

Don't know, it's like my world view is fluctuating rapidly, where I will hold opposite views in a matter of days.

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Telecaster68

Be patient with yourself, young Paduan.

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Serran

Don't know, it's like my world view is fluctuating rapidly, where I will hold opposite views in a matter of days.

I think that's just called... being alive and gaining life experience. We all go through it. Don't stress. Just figure things out as they come. :)

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Tarfeather

You know, I'll bite / rant. Sorry for the randomness of this, but I think on some grand scale, it's all related anyway.

Why is being a heterosexual male the only sexuality it's not okay to be proud of?

Like, I've always struggled with sexuality. When puberty hit, I just wanted to remain a child. I didn't want any of that stuff. I felt ashamed and horrible for my own urges.

So I've always surpressed my own sexuality. In a way, I wanted to be "asexual", even though I didn't know that even was a thing back then. But if my interest in girls just went away, that'd have been best, and I always tried to make it so, so I ended up pretending that I wasn't interested in girls, because really, you can't turn off your sexuality, or I couldn't.

When a homosexual tries to surpress their sexuality, that often turns out horrible. I think it's probably similar when a heterosexual tries to be asexual. It seems this stuff is our nature, and maybe there are some good techniques that allow you to do it without becoming mentally ill. But I didn't have any such techniques, so all I did was to harm myself this way.

But the thing is, I don't even know how to change this at this point anymore.

It's just.. this whole culture of heterosexual men is so disgusting.

Like recently I've found some commentary about some really insane girl on youtube, who apparently worships Hitler. And the thing is, she is rather attractive, and there are a lot of comments in the comment section along the lines of "I don't care how racist she is, I'd still do her", etc. etc.

And you know, that's kind of disgusting. The whole.. I don't know, tone of it, the way it's kind of a joke.

Because, I feel the same way. I think this girl, regardless of what kind of the crazy things she's saying, the way she looks, the way she moves and expresses herself, it's kind of attractive.

And then the way these guys view it, make a joke out of it, I find that disgusting. It's like gloating "Look how primitive I am!". And I want to distance myself from that shit, but I think I've been doing that in the wrong way. I've been trying to distance myself from that, by distancing myself from my own sexuality and instincts, and that just doesn't work. My instincts and sexuality are always going to come back to bite me in the butt.

So.. I don't know, I just want to be able to acknowledge myself for what I am. Yeah, no matter what kind of horrible person that girl is, some part of me finds her attractive and arousing. Can we maybe not make a joke out of that? Can we maybe not look at that in terms of "Those stupid, superficial, sex-driven men"?

When a woman finds a man attractive, that's seen as "romantic". When a man finds a woman attractive, that's seen as funny (by men) or disgusting (by women) and as more evidence that men are primitive pigs by both genders.

I just want to be able, to be like this, and be accepted for it. Not be seen as disgusting or creepy or superficial. It's just that I feel very strongly and sometimes those strong sexual feelings toward someone have more of an impact on me than the "rational" aspects of a person. This is the way I am, and I mean no harm by it, nor to reduce women to sex objects.

But because so many men make a joke out of it, because so many men really do reduce women to sexual objects in their mind and think nothing of it, this aspect of mine is associated with some really appalling bullshit, and I don't know how to overcome that stigma.

Ugh.

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Telecaster68

"some really insane girl on youtube, who apparently worships Hitler. And the thing is, she is rather attractive, and there are a lot of comments in the comment section along the lines of "I don't care how racist she is, I'd still do her", etc. etc."

I have much the same reaction to Ann Coulter. You know the 'women fancy bad boys' trope? Same thing. It's just lust, Tar.

You're a twenty-something virgin with a woman you fancy the pants off who lets you go so far but no further. You're horny and there's nothing wrong with it.

Look you're not responsible for the many, many idiot teenagers posting on YouTube, casual sexism, or thousands of years of patriarchy, and no sane person thinks you are. Just like you're not responsible for Hitler, despite being German.

Sexuality is crude and unPC, and the trick is to know when being crude and unPC is acceptable, even (to put it mildly) desirable. You're more thoughtful than most Tar, and probably agonising over something that's better, and more fun, to just go with.

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Homer

It's just.. this whole culture of heterosexual men is so disgusting.

Like recently I've found some commentary about some really insane girl on youtube, who apparently worships Hitler. And the thing is, she is rather attractive, and there are a lot of comments in the comment section along the lines of "I don't care how racist she is, I'd still do her", etc. etc.

And you know, that's kind of disgusting. The whole.. I don't know, tone of it, the way it's kind of a joke.

Because, I feel the same way. I think this girl, regardless of what kind of the crazy things she's saying, the way she looks, the way she moves and expresses herself, it's kind of attractive.

And then the way these guys view it, make a joke out of it, I find that disgusting. It's like gloating "Look how primitive I am!". And I want to distance myself from that shit, but I think I've been doing that in the wrong way. I've been trying to distance myself from that, by distancing myself from my own sexuality and instincts, and that just doesn't work. My instincts and sexuality are always going to come back to bite me in the butt.

So.. I don't know, I just want to be able to acknowledge myself for what I am. Yeah, no matter what kind of horrible person that girl is, some part of me finds her attractive and arousing. Can we maybe not make a joke out of that? Can we maybe not look at that in terms of "Those stupid, superficial, sex-driven men"?

When a woman finds a man attractive, that's seen as "romantic". When a man finds a woman attractive, that's seen as funny (by men) or disgusting (by women) and as more evidence that men are primitive pigs by both genders.

I just want to be able, to be like this, and be accepted for it. Not be seen as disgusting or creepy or superficial. It's just that I feel very strongly and sometimes those strong sexual feelings toward someone have more of an impact on me than the "rational" aspects of a person. This is the way I am, and I mean no harm by it, nor to reduce women to sex objects.

But because so many men make a joke out of it, because so many men really do reduce women to sexual objects in their mind and think nothing of it, this aspect of mine is associated with some really appalling bullshit, and I don't know how to overcome that stigma.

Ugh.

I'd say "be yourself", Tar. Either people are ready and willing to have a closer look at you, to really take their time getting to know you and learn that you're sincere or they'll stick to superficial attitudes and general assumptions. If it's the latter, why bother. You, as a single human, won't change that stigma in general. You can only attempt to prove them wrong for yourself.

(BTW, I don't see a point in being "proud" of ones sexuality. Pride is associated with an accomplishment. Yet you're born with your orientation. You can't help it. You may be glad about it or happy or sad but pride just doesn't fit. You may be proud of having come to terms with your sexuality, though. This can be quite a struggle, to say the least.)

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Jade Cross

I hope than in no way, what Im about to say sounds patronizing (since I can kind seem crude when speaking purely logically) but I find this thread to be very interesting. The clashes of pack mentality VS individual interpretation is something Im often puzzled over myself even if Im not in a situation like yours Tar.

Its also one of the main reasons I can never pin point how people react to things like this because much more often than not, issues around sexuality, how men and women view each other as a gender and the various stigmas assigned to each gender which they have to both accept and fight at the same time is really contradictory in so many ways, I have to wonder, how do people not get sick and tired of repeating this over and over again; especially when many times, it pushes them to extremes, even to the point of questioning what they once took for granted or that it was straight forward.

It also serves as an example of just how minute the effort is in properly teaching people about sexuality. At the very least helping them to establish a decent enough base upon which to construct their own views and values on it rather than regurgitating biased views on the matter. The level of social pressure is also extremly evident in these cases and I agree with Tar, where I in his same shoes, I wouldnt know how to behave because of the stigmas around the sexuality of men.

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chimaera

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Tarfeather

I thought I was asexual for a loooong time, and while I was ok with it, deep down it kind of bothered me, as in "ok, there's something wrong with me, but that's just who I am, so what?". Now I'm... something and I don't care about labels anymore. I believe the key to being comfortable with your sexuality is having a compatible partner who understands you, then it's sooo easy to be comfortable with anything you are. Sorry for being blunt, but what you have now is a girlfriend who makes you ashamed of your sexuality to the point you've started to believe that you're a "primitive pig".

No, she is very supportive of me and my sexuality. How do you come to this conclusion?

For most women (as in, those who aren't asexual or lesbian) a man confident in himself and his sexuality is the hottest thing ever.

Confidence, as defined by many, seems to inherently imply that the person being confident is already likable / good / attractive. Otherwise, that same confidence will usually be called by a different name: Arrogance. So, yes, by the very usage of the word "confidence", people who are considered "confident" are usually also considered attractive.

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HighDrive

Afterward, I feel like someone pushed the "reset" button on me and I feel mentally recharged, or like a huge weight has been lifted from me

I don't know why you hid this behind a spoiler. It was beautifully written.

If course that kind of sex can't be had with an ace so why even try?

I hope to find that kind d of sex again... soon! ;) In my case I feel I will still love my GF the same or more for opening the relationship.

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Skullery Maid

I thought I was asexual for a loooong time, and while I was ok with it, deep down it kind of bothered me, as in "ok, there's something wrong with me, but that's just who I am, so what?". Now I'm... something and I don't care about labels anymore. I believe the key to being comfortable with your sexuality is having a compatible partner who understands you, then it's sooo easy to be comfortable with anything you are. Sorry for being blunt, but what you have now is a girlfriend who makes you ashamed of your sexuality to the point you've started to believe that you're a "primitive pig".

No, she is very supportive of me and my sexuality. How do you come to this conclusion?

No, she's not. She's a sexual partner who doesn't share in the intimacy and emotional connectedness of sex. Having sex with someone who's right there with you, all into it and excited and lost in that sex haze head space is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from having someone who is using their body like an object. Without that emotional and passionate connection, she isn't supporting your sexuality. Not the way a sexual partner would. She's supportive of your sexuality in the way that friends are supportive... from a distance, not from a shared experience.

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Skullery Maid

Don't know, it's like my world view is fluctuating rapidly, where I will hold opposite views in a matter of days.

I think that's just called... being alive and gaining life experience. We all go through it. Don't stress. Just figure things out as they come. :)

Reminds me of...

Facebook-Classical-Art-Memes-96cee7.png

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Serran

Eh. I don't see someone lusting after / finding women attractive as disgusting or wrong or anything of the sort. If they then TREAT the woman like a sex object, that is the disgusting bit. But, just naturally finding someone (even a bad person) attractive? Nothing at all wrong with it... there is a huge difference between natural male heterosexuality and sexual objectification that women complain about (well, non-radical ones, anyway). Don't feel bad for finding people attractive. Just treat them with respect, even if you find them attractive (well, basic human decency anyway). Then, no harm done. :)

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Tarfeather

She's supportive of your sexuality in the way that friends are supportive... from a distance, not from a shared experience.

Exactly.

She's a sexual partner who doesn't share in the intimacy and emotional connectedness of sex.

No, she's not my sexual partner.

Having sex with someone who's right there with you, all into it and excited and lost in that sex haze head space is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from having someone who is using their body like an object. Without that emotional and passionate connection, she isn't supporting your sexuality. Not the way a sexual partner would.

"using their body like an object"? Sort of random and unrelated, but whatever.

I have no doubt that it's a different experience, but what does this have to do with my partner? The fact that my partner is not sexual, does not rob me of any sexual experiences. Remember, we're not monogamous.

Sorry, I'm rather pissed to have people try to lay the blame, on the only person in this world who at least tried to help me with coming to terms with my sexuality.

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Float On

Because, I feel the same way. I think this girl, regardless of what kind of the crazy things she's saying, the way she looks, the way she moves and expresses herself, it's kind of attractive.

as confident, independent, intelligent. leadership-type traits? that's certainly one way attraction works.

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chimaera

.

 

 

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Skullery Maid
Sorry, I'm rather pissed to have people try to lay the blame, on the only person in this world who at least tried to help me with coming to terms with my sexuality.

I don't blame her, i blame you. I blame you for hiding behind this girl who can't even take care of herself, and remaining handcuffed in a non-functional non-relationship and then being continuously upset for having the exact kind of lifestyle you would logically have with said partner. You can have a happy, enthusiastic, supportive, sexual, mutually loving and affectionate relationship, or you can stay with your "girlfriend", who can't leave you because she has OCD and at this point, you've become part of her routine. So yeah, I blame you for not making choices that make you happy. You make choices that make you unhappy, but most of the blame seems to fall onto women... fake women, specifically, that you've conjured in your head who hate men and all male sexuality. But I suppose that's a convo for another day.

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Float On

Confidence, as defined by many, seems to inherently imply that the person being confident is already likable / good / attractive. Otherwise, that same confidence will usually be called by a different name: Arrogance. So, yes, by the very usage of the word "confidence", people who are considered "confident" are usually also considered attractive.

While there might be a thin line between confidence and arrogance, I don't have a problem telling the difference between those two, do you?

For me, an arrogant person is never attractive because arrogance often comes with selfishness and superiority, and those are not traits I'd want my partner to have.

Well, I'd say that arogance is close to confidence, enough so that people fall for arrogance when they probably shouldnt

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Tarfeather

It's easier to see these things from an outsider's POV.

It's also easier to be dead wrong. By all means, let's have a discussion, but unless you have rational arguments to bring forth, I have no reason to take you seriously. At all.

My point is, you're trying to make yourself asexual for the sake of your partner and the fact that she's letting you do that is not supportive, it's selfish.

That is not the case. The burden of proof lies on you, and I'm afraid you have much less data about me than I do. Good luck with that.

While there might be a thin line between confidence and arrogance, I don't have a problem telling the difference between those two, do you?

For me, an arrogant person is never attractive because arrogance often comes with selfishness and superiority, and those are not traits I'd want my partner to have.

That's actually entirely subjective. I'm a misanthrope. I find selfishness and a sense of superiority to be somewhat attractive when it comes to defying society as a whole. Meanwhile, I find selfishness and a sense of superiority to be incredibly offputting when it comes to mistreating weak and defenseless groups, such as animals. So, someone who is "confident" about eating meat, to me would seem "arrogant", and someone who is "arrogant" about not buying and questioning what is taught to them at school and uni, to me would seem "confident". It's entirely up to the person judging.

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Tarfeather

I don't blame her, i blame you. I blame you for hiding behind this girl who can't even take care of herself, and remaining handcuffed in a non-functional non-relationship and then being continuously upset for having the exact kind of lifestyle you would logically have with said partner. You can have a happy, enthusiastic, supportive, sexual, mutually loving and affectionate relationship, or you can stay with your "girlfriend", who can't leave you because she has OCD and at this point, you've become part of her routine. So yeah, I blame you for not making choices that make you happy. You make choices that make you unhappy, but most of the blame seems to fall onto women... fake women, specifically, that you've conjured in your head who hate men and all male sexuality. But I suppose that's a convo for another day.

No, I don't think I can "have such a relationship". Although I'm still working toward it, it doesn't seem to be something that'll happen outside of an obscene amount of luck. That was already the case before I met my partner, and frankly, she has nothing to do with that.

"I've become part of her routine" - No, I haven't. In fact, I'm one of the few things in this world she'd break her routine for. But, sure, whatever. All the happy experiences we have together, those are just "routine", part of her OCD. It has nothing to do with the fact that we like each other.

Seriously, Skulls, it baffles me how you can say these unfounded, very personal, and very hurtful things and get nods of agreement. But you know, maybe that is the real reason I'm struggling so much? The only people who understand me, are my friends. Anyone else will look at me, and come to ridiculous conclusions about me, simply because they can not comprehend the way my brain works.

A while ago, I showed her that other post of yours, by the way. The other one where you make ridiculous leaps and conclusions about our relationship. The one where you claim everything I say, is not representative of how she feels, like I didn't understand my own partner.

Her only response was "This is why I don't bother with what other people think".

And frankly, while I disagree with her in principle (I would like to broaden my horizon by listening to people with different opinions), in this particular instance I agree with her. Your opinions are worse than useless. They're just baseless attacks that only make sense when you don't really know me or my partner. I don't know why I even bother trying to understand what you're saying, or trying to see whether there's some valid criticism there. In the end, I always come to the conclusion that you're wrong, and that's a shame considering you're not stupid. Being wrong that much, should make you question yourself, but that is something you seem to be unable to do.

I'm glad there are other people here who say accurate things once in a while, or I'd really have to consider myself a masochist for even being here.

Oh, PS, for the only point that may be valid in that entire post..

but most of the blame seems to fall onto women... fake women, specifically, that you've conjured in your head who hate men and all male sexuality. But I suppose that's a convo for another day.

First: Women like Lacy Green aren't "fake", they very much exist. But yes, I'm aware that they're the exception, and that they're in no way to blame for my problems.

But yeah, I think to some extent you're right, and I also think that used to be true for me more than it is now. I've made some progress. The women I see in real life, I don't judge in such a way at all anymore. With trying to become more accepting of my own sexuality, I also become less prejudiced and bitter about their sexuality.

So that's progress. But yeah, sure, if you want to assume I'm not doing anything to work on myself, and I'm just here to bitch and complain without putting any effort into improving myself, whatever. You just add more reasons for me not to take you seriously.

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