Guess my girlfriend is nonlib? [TMI]

[Tarfeather]

TMI Warning: I'll be going into some amount of detail about sexual stuff.. You've been warned.

As far as anything "below the belt" goes, my asexual girlfriend had so far been rejecting any kind of touching. Near the start of our relationship, that's how we figured out she was asexual, as she wasn't willing to do anything involving her genitals, and in fact the fear of such a thing happening made her not want to be intimate in any way. Over the almost past 2 years, we've been adjusting to each other and she's gained a lot of trust.

Fast forward to now, and things are going very well between us. Her feelings for me seem to have grown a lot, and we're now on equal terms in how important we are to each other, rather than it being one sided to my disadvantage.

Rather explicit description follows:

Recently, she for the first time allowed me to touch her "down there".. And, well, the result was surprising. She basically didn't feel much at all. For her, it neither seemed to be the kind of negative experience she's been dreading at the start of our relationship, nor the kind of positive experience she's been dreading lately (dreading because she doesn't want to become "addicted" to sex). As I touched her in her intimate area, she was not feeling any kind of arousal. However, she wasn't uncomfortable with the situation, either (I asked her continuously whether she was uncomfortable throughout the whole thing). She just.. didn't seem to have any mental response to it. As we did that, I was cuddling her with my other arm, and she seemed to have more of a reaction to our cuddling than to what was happening between her legs. She even confirmed this herself afterward. It sounds like what Phil said recently, I might as well have been touching her arm.

Well, except that she seemed to have the "normal" physical reactions. Just no mental response along with it. It was really strange. I'm guessing that if we wanted kids or whatever, it would be physically possible and probably not too uncomfortable for her. But she just doesn't really feel much along with it.

And the strange thing is, she *has* been aroused before from something involving her boobs. But that was very early in our relationship and it only happened twice, total. I've no idea why that happened, or why it hasn't happened again. But it kind of proves she's not completely nonlib. Just, whatever causes her to be aroused, we can't reproduce.

So I'm wondering whether it's not just my complete lack of experience and understanding of how female arousal works? Meh.

Also, I didn't feel bad about it, oddly. No frustration, no disappointment, no resignation. It was just like "OK, so that's how it is". Nor did she have any problem with it. We might as well have been cuddling or something. I'm so confused.

[Telecaster68]

When you say she had normal physical reactions - do you mean she got wet?

[Tarfeather]

When you say she had normal physical reactions - do you mean she got wet?

Uh.. Honestly, this is a bit awkward, since despite this being a sexuality-related forum, nobody ever gets this explicit here, but this is important to me, so --

TMI explicit sexual stuff etc.

Yes and as it went on it seemed that it became physically easier for my finger to penetrate her.

>_>' I'm such a virgin.

[Guest]

I'm not really sure if I understand this, what did you think was going to happen?

[Telecaster68]

SEX REPULSED PEOPLE - READ NO FURTHER. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Sounds similar to my wife. So it's either some kind of mental block around how stressy she finds the whole deal, or those particular circuits just aren't giving any feedback on stimulation to the brain. They can kick off the physical reactions without any higher functioning being involved. I've seen quite a few asexuals post about how they physically don't feel anything, or at least, nothing much.

So on the upside - if/when you do ever have sex, it's probably not going to hurt. And on the downside, she's not going to enjoy it. It'll just be meh.

[Tarfeather]

I'm not really sure if I understand this, what did you think was going to happen?

Not a clue. I know C. was expecting a stronger reaction of herself, though. She seems kind of relieved, actually. I'm not so sure I'm relieved she's "safe" from that particular temptation, hah.

Sounds similar to my wife. So it's either some kind of mental block around how stressy she finds the whole deal, or those particular circuits just aren't giving any feedback on stimulation to the brain. They can kick off the physical reactions without any higher functioning being involved. I've seen quite a few asexuals post about how they physically don't feel anything, or at least, nothing much.

So on the upside - if/when you do ever have sex, it's probably not going to hurt. And on the downside, she's not going to enjoy it. It'll just be meh.

I can pretty much rule stress out, as she's rarely been so relaxed. As for the other theory, I guess so, though clearly, the ability for her to feel aroused exists. It just won't be triggered by that kind of physical stimulation, it seems.

I don't know how much I'd be interested in such a notion of "sex", for reasons other than reproduction.

[chimaera]

.

[Tarfeather]

Do you have any idea why she might be so reserved/scared or whatever she is when it comes to sex? Does she see sex as something to be ashamed of?

It's the same reason she used to be anorexic. She can't stand the thought of not being in complete control of her body.

[Rising Sun]

Her reaction is normal for an asexual, with or without a libido. She isn't turned on and that plays a major role on arousal, especially female arousal.

[Guest]

I'm not really sure if I understand this, what did you think was going to happen?

Not a clue. I know C. was expecting a stronger reaction of herself, though. She seems kind of relieved, actually. I'm not so sure I'm relieved she's "safe" from that particular temptation, hah.

I see. I know that myself and many others don't really feel anything special when touched in that area. I believe that most of the arousal that sexuals feel is a lot due to how they mentally feel about it. Just shoving something up the vagina is a lot like shoving something into your mouth. Not sure if it feels the same for everyone, but that place is built to handle quite a bit (like, a human coming through), so it is not meant to be a very sensitive place. The clit being another story, for sure, but even that can be very...well... if you aren't looking for pleasure, the sensation it can give is rather uncomfortable.

Sorry for tmi, I guess, but really, if anyone sensitive to this kind of chat came into this thread and got down to my comment: you got yourself to blame! :P

[chimaera]

.

[nanogretchen4]

TMI

Penetration can just be a weird but not very strong sensation the first time. There aren't many nerve endings inside the vagina. Almost all the sensation is at the opening unless you're pressing on the cervix. The mental component is huge with penetration. It sounds like your girlfriend was not mentally aroused at all but also not repulsed, just kind of detached and clinical. If she's willing you might want to try repeating whatever worked in the past first to warm her up. Many women who are not asexual find penetration to be an acquired taste. The problem is, it doesn't sound like your girlfriend wants to acquire it.

[Tarfeather]

She can't stand the thought of not being in complete control of her body.

Well, here's your answer. She can't expect to enjoy it when she doesn't let herself relax and just feel...

Theoretically speaking, even if she wasn't asexual, most likely she wouldn't be able to feel anything with this approach.

That makes sense, but there's nothing I can do about that.

[binary suns]

well my own experience is that if I'm not aroused already (maybe what I'm thinking of is the same that you call mental arousal, but I never really understood what mental arousal really means) then genital manipulation doesn't feel like anything really. it might feel a little silly because the low-scale movement feels kinda weird, heh kind of like if I touch my nose and gently move my finger in a small circle, my mind perceives the movement in an humorous way. or my cheek.

like eventually the genital touch starts to feel arousing if I can keep interest long enough... but that can take awhile, I wouldn't recommend it. if it doesn't do anything after a minute and I want to be masturbating for whatever reason, I go to look at porn, and in these aroused moods sometimes it can take looking at porn on one screen while doing other things for an hour before I have interest. (usually it's faster, usually when I go to masturbate I do it when I am already aroused, and usually porn arouses me if I'm interested in becoming aroused) basically it's a matter of slowly building up the libido I guess. but then I am a libido'd ace so I can't be sure if porn would be her interest.

[Telecaster68]

That dramatically changed for me several weeks ago, so there still may be hope for you and your girlfriend, after all.

Can I ask what changed, if you can, er, put your finger on it?

I'd echo what others have said about how the physical stimulation stuff only works if you're already a bit aroused (visuals, kissing, anticipation etc), and open to being more aroused, even for sexuals. I guess we're more likely to be aroused and open to being more aroused though.

Nano... I bow to your experience with vaginas, seeing as you own one etc, but you don't mention the g spot which is inside, although anatomically, kinda part of the clitoris. Again, that's not going to do the trick if the woman isn't into it mentally though, and already quite turned on.

[nanogretchen4]

Yeah, but that's more advanced. It's unlikely that a partner is stimulating the g spot unless they know what they're doing, and the woman may really dislike that if she's not aroused already. I wouldn't mess with that until she has a bit more experience.

[Telecaster68]

Yep, and Tar too.

I feel quite parental now, in a weird way.

[Guest]

I wouldn't judge off a single experience, because it can take women time to "learn" how they like things "down there". So, she may or may not eventually find something she does enjoy. I have heard you have to be mentally into it and also it has to be done right physically. However...

I don't feel much when touched there. It's kinda like having my tongue touched - soft tissue, more sensitive than most my skin, but not pleasurable or painful. Just... meh. It's kinda like a guy asking if he can stick his finger in my mouth. "Ok... if you really want...". But TMI

my body responds with lubrication and such like normal. The muscles relax and my body accepts the act. It's just... not something that feels good, or bad (mostly, sometimes it can hurt). It's not even as good as being touched on my arm/waist/etc. Honestly, I am more likely to get emotionally / mentally involved in someone kissing my neck than doing anything to my vagina.

So... I mean, if she wants to try to explore and see if there is anything she likes, the first time can be "meh" even for "normal" sexual women with a libido. If she doesn't though, she's not alone in not really being into it or repulsed by it. This is why I consider myself "sex neutral" - it generally doesn't make me feel bad (unless it becomes an obligation / pressure thing) but it doesn't feel good, at all, either.

[Sally]

Her reaction is normal for an asexual, with or without a libido. She isn't turned on and that plays a major role on arousal, especially female arousal.

Yes. If something doesn't feel good and it's also fairly intrusive, it actually is unpleasant.

[Telecaster68]

I don't think her physical reaction is necessarily any different to a really anxious sexual person. But I think most sexuals would've got at least a little turned on mentally, which might've helped move things on a bit more.

[chimaera]

.

[Telecaster68]

Thanks. So in fact the much maligned 'wait till you meet the right person' case...

You kind of sidestepped the trigger of your asexuality bit though. Fine if you don't want to talk about it...

[Sally]

I don't think her physical reaction is necessarily any different to a really anxious sexual person. But I think most sexuals would've got at least a little turned on mentally, which might've helped move things on a bit more.

An anxious sexual person would know that sex would feel good if they could deal with their anxiety. An asexual person would know it wouldn't make any difference.

[Nigellaseed]

Well Tar, I am so pleased to hear there is progression in your relationship.

I have to admit that the first few times of having sexual contact were exactly how you are both experiencing it. The time I actually lost my virginity to was with somebody who was a couple of years older and knew how to help me feel okay who had had sex before. BUT it took me 5 years later to really enjoy sex and for it to work for me. It is like most things...patience...practice...and above all being very relaxed with each other and it sounds to me like you are both could be getting to that glorious union.

I guess what I am trying to say is that for the first 5 years I too felt nearly nothing...and then whoosh! Bliss!

[Guest]

I have a super high libido and I don't get any feelings OR physical reactions when touched down there, either when touched by myself or anyone else. It's relatively common for women (regardless of sexuality) to need to have other parts of their body (and mind, through words) stimulated to become aroused, and to not get anything out of having their crotch fondled until the arousal has been created through stimulation of other erogenous zones. I'd go to far as to say that's normal for women actually. Men (usually) can get hard if you play with their dick, women (often) require other forms of stimulation (not genital) to get them aroused enough to enjoy genital stimulation (I say that as someone who has had sex with a lot of women as well as with men)

(oh also, I'm not saying she's NOT nonlib, just saying that even plenty of sexual women with very high libidos don't get aroused from having their genitals fondled and/or played with the way men often do)

[Guest]

Well Tar, I am so pleased to hear there is progression in your relationship.

I have to admit that the first few times of having sexual contact were exactly how you are both experiencing it. The time I actually lost my virginity to was with somebody who was a couple of years older and knew how to help me feel okay who had had sex before. BUT it took me 5 years later to really enjoy sex and for it to work for me. It is like most things...patience...practice...and above all being very relaxed with each other and it sounds to me like you are both could be getting to that glorious union.

I guess what I am trying to say is that for the first 5 years I too felt nearly nothing...and then whoosh! Bliss!

Yeah I've heard a lot of sexual people (men as well as women) say this sort of thing. It takes a loooong time and a lot of practice (for many people) to be able to fully physically and emotionally enjoy sex, as well as being with the (not so mythical) ''right person'' and being happy and relaxed with them etc.

Can I ask what changed, if you can, er, put your finger on it?

Haha :lol:, sure.

I've always had a hard time accepting asexuality as an orientation. I respect that people identify as asexuals, I did too, for a while, but to me asexuality was more like a lifestyle.

Anyway, I'd been looking for the trigger that caused my asexuality until I found it (by coincidence) a few months ago. Ever since then, I've been more open to sexual stuff because my mindset has changed quite a bit.

I love how people say things like ''I thought I was ace, then this happened and it turns out I'm not really ace, so I don't think anyone else is really innately ace either'' ..I understand you weren't exactly saying that, but I saw you say the other day too about scientists maybe finding out asexuality ''isn't an orientation'' (meaning I guess that it's caused by something and can be fixed) and how upsetting that would be for people identifying as ace. No, in your case, it maybe wasn't an orientation. But that doesn't mean for others it's not just who they are and 1) nothing ''caused'' it, 2) nothing will ever change it. Same with many homosexuals. For many, there was no ''cause'' and nothing can change it.

[m4rble]

If you haven't gotten the memo yet TMI AHEAD

I can't really relate to any of what other people are saying are asexual reactions because what I experience in response to direct (self) stimulation is usually very intense. My vagina itself isn't too sensitive but the surrounding structures definately are. When I first tried masturbating by touching my clitorus, I was shocked, and I couldn't stand touching it more than a little bit because it felt so sensitive(It isn't exactly painful, but it is just a lot of feeling). I don't usually touch the area directly because of the sensitivity, it's almost like tickling, of course I've heard people can't tickle themselves.

[Nigellaseed]

If you haven't gotten the memo yet TMI AHEAD

I can't really relate to any of what other people are saying are asexual reactions because what I experience in response to direct (self) stimulation is usually very intense. My vagina itself isn't too sensitive but the surrounding structures definately are. When I first tried masturbating by touching my clitorus, I was shocked, and I couldn't stand touching it more than a little bit because it felt so sensitive(It isn't exactly painful, but it is just a lot of feeling). I don't usually touch the area directly because of the sensitivity, it's almost like tickling, of course I've heard people can't tickle themselves.

Often it is recommended it is best to use other forms of arousal to begin with to allow the woman's body to accept the touching of her clitoris. Generally known as foreplay. It is a very sophisticated and sensitive organ like a stradivarius.

[Telecaster68]

I don't think her physical reaction is necessarily any different to a really anxious sexual person. But I think most sexuals would've got at least a little turned on mentally, which might've helped move things on a bit more.

An anxious sexual person would know that sex would feel good if they could deal with their anxiety. An asexual person would know it wouldn't make any difference.

How would they know that? (genuine question)

[Telecaster68]

It is a very sophisticated and sensitive organ like a stradivarius.

Is that why people like having a fiddle?