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Invite To A Support Group for Sexuals Involved With Asexuals


Sweetdreamr45

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This question if fot the aesexuals. What if you thought you were in an aesexual relationship and your partner eventually came to the point where they started asking for sex and consequently told you they'd discovered that they are sexual? It would horrify you.Would you try to understand and try to have sex with person? You would not only feel betrayed and deceived, but you could also have the creeping feeling the person was just pretending to be aesexual until you developed strong feelings for them, which would make it hard to leave. That's how these women feel.

Again I am speaking entirely in theory, not practice. I might be a little dissapointed, but I wouldn't feel decieved or betrayed. I've seen people here who thought they were asexual eventually find out they had some other issue, maybe confidence or something, and learn they are actually sexual. And yes, I'd try to have sex with the person, as I said before, I believe that making the sexual give up sex is unfair. Sure I might think about the posablility that they lied about their sexuality to get close, but if I loved them and trusted them enough, I'd assume that was not the case. Also, if I thought said love was worth it, I'd make sacrifices and have sex. Yes, it would be a sacrifice for me, but you make those when in love.

Some aesexuals seems to have a total lack of understanding about relationships that include sex. Not wanting to have sex with your partner is not as minute as not liking broccoli or not liking action movies, it's more than that.

Most of us are quite aware that sex is more important than something like brocoli or action movies to a sexual. I'll admit, I can't "understand" it, but through observation I believe it to be the case.

The situation is really no different than homosexuals living on the "down low". They end up hurting people and messing up people's lives due to their own lack of knowledge about who they are. They know they are not attracted to their mate, but sometimes they have purposes that are self serving such as wanting to have a family and appear normal to society.Should the heterosexual person try to understand them and work around it?

Do they love each other? If they do, I'd say yes. But then again I'm speaking with no experience, both in the relationship aspect and the sexual attraction aspect, so I understand if these words carry no weight.

Finally, I have to address being a victim. It doesn't matter if you commit a crime and it is not malicious. If a friend shot me mistake or not, I would still bleed, therefore I am still the victim.

But you weren't shot. Your partner found something about themselves that makes you less compatable. Odds are your partner is also having difficulty, knowing that in order to please you, they must do something they really don't want to. If anyone is a victim, it's both people.

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I definitely am glad that it is understood that 99% of compromise is expected of the sexual. At least one person understood that.

I disagree, the sexual is as much of a victim as the asexual. After all, there are asexuals forced into sex just like sexuals are forcefully denied sex. You might blame your partner for unfairly denying sex, but there are others in the opposite position. And, at least, you're recognized by the media and society at large as normal. Asexuality is still classified as a pathology by most people.

I would also like to address the fact that quite a few of the previous posters seem to feel totally at ease with the deception these women have felt. This question if fot the aesexuals. What if you thought you were in an aesexual relationship and your partner eventually came to the point where they started asking for sex and consequently told you they'd discovered that they are sexual? It would horrify you.Would you try to understand and try to have sex with person? You would not only feel betrayed and deceived, but you could also have the creeping feeling the person was just pretending to be aesexual until you developed strong feelings for them, which would make it hard to leave. That's how these women feel.

Some aesexuals seems to have a total lack of understanding about relationships that include sex.

Please, don't tell me what I'd feel. I know I'm indifferent to sex. Actually, I'd probably enjoy it. I'm just not interested. In any case, I'd try to find an arrangement that is convenient to both.

You (correctly) say that sex is not a small matter, not comparable to more mundane tastes. But I have problems compromising in my relationship too: we live 8,000 kilometers away from each other. The importance of distance and the subsequent compromising is comparable to sex, in my opinion. After all, I do have a drive for physical affection. I have the choice of seeing my girlfriend once a year or less (hopefully) or ending the relationship. I think that she's worth the inconvenience, and so we try find ways of being close even when geography doesn't help.

The situation is really no different than homosexuals living on the "down low". They end up hurting people and messing up people's lives due to their own lack of knowledge about who they are. They know they are not attracted to their mate, but sometimes they have purposes that are self serving such as wanting to have a family and appear normal to society.Should the heterosexual person try to understand them and work around it?

I know one such case. In my opinion, the gay guy's wife should have divorced him years before she did, since he wasn't willing to compromise. She only did that after he pointed a gun at her. That's not to say that the woman is to blame for the situation (after all, HE was the violent one). But she could have spared herself and her son a lot of grief by ending the relationship when it was evident that he wouldn't move an inch from his position.

Thankfully, AVEN's work at visibility and education is helping asexuals recognize what they are and thus prevent situations like this one. Someone at odds with their identity can ruin other peoples' lives.

Finally, I have to address being a victim. It doesn't matter if you commit a crime and it is not malicious. If a friend shot me mistake or not, I would still bleed, therefore I am still the victim.

If someone shot you, you wouldn't be able to eject the bullet out of your body and save your life. But if a partner violates your trust, you can eject them from your life. If he's not willing to compromise (and thus accept you for what you are), you shoudln't be with him. In my opinion, that's a basic fact of relationships in general, not just sexual/asexual relationships.

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I don't need the support group. I'm in a sexual relationship. I have just been there before with someone cutting me off at the knees. I digress.

What I am trying to say is we all know sex doesn't equal love. For sexuals , especially women sex is used for many things. Having sex with your mate is spiritual with women. Sex is usually not thought of as a thing of disgust between two people but as a union. And if your partner reveals that they are disgusted by the act, you also feel like they were/are disgusted by you.Part of us is physical and we can't just ignore that. Our looks and self esteem are often connected to our sexuality and it's very hard to understand if someone doesn't want to be involved in that closeness. Especially with those aesexuals that don't want to engage in ANY type of affection.Just as I see people speaking of deep connections to people by looking in their eyes, or having long meaningful conversations, sex and affection is just another avenue to being close to someone you love. The only difference is that some sexual people cannot ease their need with a sex toy it's just not as fulfilling as when two people are engaged in the moment. Marriage is supposed to free you from having to search for outside things to fulfill you.

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Do they love each other? If they do, I'd say yes. But then again I'm speaking with no experience, both in the relationship aspect and the sexual attraction aspect, so I understand if these words carry no weight.

Unfortunately, this isn't the way it is. I'm sure you've seen enough heartbroken heterosexuals to know this is not the case. If my husband wanted to carry out sexual acts with men, then we don't have a romantic love. It isn't mutual at all. That is the difference between having a friend and having romantic love. I love all of my friends, but not the same way I love my boyfriend. I have no sexual desire toward my platonic friends, yet I have a sexual attraction to my mate.If my mate has no sexual attraction towards me, and yet towards others, I'm not sure we can have a romantic love.

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Ok, I'd say that YOU have to realise what YOUR husband is experiancing. YOU have to understand and not push when he doesn't want it.

What advice would you give me if we had married when both of us felt we were asexuals, and suddenly he decided he loves sex. Would I then have to accept the change and have sex with him as I have to accept the neglect?

Do you think it is fair for one person to decide on a complete change in the relationship?

No, I would say that you have to understand him, and not "take it" when he wants it, and you don't.

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If my husband wanted to carry out sexual acts with men, then we don't have a romantic love. It isn't mutual at all. That is the difference between having a friend and having romantic love. I love all of my friends, but not the same way I love my boyfriend. I have no sexual desire toward my platonic friends, yet I have a sexual attraction to my mate.If my mate has no sexual attraction towards me, and yet towards others, I'm not sure we can have a romantic love.

Indeed, in that case sexual attracting isn't mutual, but I'm a little confused. You say earlier that you understand that sex and love are not the same thing, yet this passage seems to say that the difference between friendship and romance is sexual attraction. Seems by this that you believe that sexual attraction and romantic love are the same thing, could you explain further if this is not the case?

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MaraKarina

Hi Dargon,

Thanks for your long mail! Agree 100%, yes a relationship is always a matter of compromise of some sort. You'll never find two people wanting or approving of the same things always.

And that's probably the problem for many sexuals coming to this board, that they - including myself - perceive it that the "burden" of the differences in the sexual area is almost exclusively on their shoulders. Most of the times, with asexual partners who do not even spend a minute a year on talking about it. Possibly because that matter is no problem for them.

I've only recently - and because my husband is one of those who don't want to talk about it so it is difficult to raise the subject at all - managed to get across to him that, when I am truly sad/depressed because the sex is missing in our marriage and sometimes cry about it, I don't just act up to put him under pressure to get my wil. But that these are moments when I am really weak and would need his sympathy. And that's taken us 15 years!

It's also not just the sex issue. I've noticed in my relationship, that it started all great, including sex, and to me it appeared as if my husband was withdrawing over time, step by step. When this was mentioned he would always deny. In our situation, we were close to a flat-share only relationship almost two years ago, until it finally started to change to a more positive direction, again.

As to advertising the yahoo-group on this board - it's still very difficult to find people in the same boat. I've only recently found the AVEN-site by chance, and here learnt about the group. And in general, I feel, it's much better to post about the problems I have in relationship with my husband on that group. This way I will not risk to hurt someone asexual. Like others in my situation, I've tried to understand my husband for years, and still try. It's a matter of being in a situation where I wonder if I'm still sane or normal or all wrong. And in that situation to cope, it's not so much the discussion about the problem or how to find an agreement (because that's a very individual matter for each couple anyways, just as the decision of whether to stay together to separate). It's simply the need for information that how we feel, the problems we have with the situation, the effects of all types this has on our lives, is very common in such situations. And, next thing, how we might cope with it.

And even though I belong to the majority of the population, our situation is something most people will not at all understand. If I would mention my problem to friends, counselors who aren't familiar with asexuality, the likely answers/solutions for my husband's behaviour would be: he's got someone else, he's gay, you don't dress attractively enough, you must be doing something wrong .... In other words, not help whatever, quite the opposite

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MaraKarina
so.. instead of telling us we have a lack of understanding, which I see a lot in these posts, why don't you try to help us understand in a non condesending way? Or, if that is not an option in this game of life, instead of lecturing us about the evilness of our ways, why not save that post for the support group?

Goonie

A post earlier you answered to another post "so go get laid" - which is about the biggest insult you could make to a sexual person suffering from his/per partner's sexual neglect. Did you mean that to be an insult? If so I doubt you are serious about understanding us.

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MaraKarina
What I don't get is why this group is coming to AVEN to announce itself... it's like the hypothetical Women's group going to a Men's Discussion Forum and telling the membership that their group is for women only.

It's been announced here because the knowledge of asexuality is very new and there's very little on that. People somehow find their way to this site, then understand it's not the right place exactle (for some at least), and they find the information about the group which they would normally not find.

In fact the debate about asexuals not invited to this group alone has brought many discussions from asexuals back to this board, so to speak as a defence of what we perceived as lack of respect and acceptance of our wish.

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sweetdreamer

There were 34 discussions posted to my question for support as a Sexual married to an Asexual, who was very horny at the time and submitted "All I want to do is get frickin' laid!" to the support group. Not a lasting horniness, mind you....but one in which there had to be a release of emotions or a little humor injected, just to recognize the frustration, and get past it and back to her life with her husband and family, whom she loves very much, by the way. In fact, that's all the support she needed....just another sexual who would say, "Yeah, it'll pass. Hang in there. Bluer skies tomorrow!"

Anytime we air our grievances here, we are hit with a tsunami of asexuals who are defending themselves, and/or taking offense to something said. The only truly supportive one besides Mara who heads up the Sexuals support group, is Dara who understands because she was once a sexual involved with an asexual. She could empathize and showed true heart in her words because she understood being the sexual woman that she is, what it is like to be involved with a partner who has no passion and sex drive. Then another slew of e-mails would debate the topic further, and just perpetuated more confusion, and more defense mechanisms popping up all over the place as a result of it. It's so unnecessary and brings up so much conflict.

The bottom line is...because asexuals are NOT sexual people, and have never (if ever) been terribly horny, and have little or no sex drive---how CAN you possibly give us the appropriate words of support or empathize with our feelings? YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MISS WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE! Do you understand? Do you also understand that you jumped on me and other sexuals' posts like a bunch of piranha fish over one measily little request for support? All that gal needed who expressed herself that way was someone saying "yeah, it probably gets rough, I DO understand." THAT'S IT! That would have been support enough. That's my point. It doesn't stop there...more messages lashing out at not even the support requested...but the statement, itself.

This wasn't a test. It was an honest presentation of a valid question from a sexual woman involved with an asexual man. The answers from this forum were everything from a cavalier, "So go get laid", to a disection of the word "compromise" and others who just thought it would be a cinch to get a divorce over it, and then all problems would be solved. You see, when you're with others who know how it feels, sometimes that's all you have to know is that the others in the group understand and are there for you, not in the way an asexual would understand, but in the way another sexual would understand. That's why you've established the AVEN board for asexuals, right? Birds of a feather can flock together, and also it's a learning and support site for those who are in the stages of self-discovery of their asexuality, as it should be. It should also be a very positive experience for asexuals. However, it's not always a positive experience for the sexual they are involved with to discover such a thing. I think that is something that the asexual community has failed to realize. This new discovery of asexuality will wreck many marriages; or leave one of the spouses devastated until they get to a support group that can help them deal with it.

I truly love my husband. He's worth a dozen sexuals that would probably satisfy my sexual urges (not that it would take that many...hahaha). However there are just times we sexuals get horny or need more physical contact and intimacy because of our natural female hormones and instincts, and we need to express ourselves without fear of hurting someone or any fear of verbal retaliation.

Those in our sexuals with asexuals support group are all familiar with the feelings and it truly helps just to KNOW that. We don't need somebody to tell us to use sex toys or vibrators or to masturbate as if we have the sexual I.Q. of a fly. We KNOW about these things, and believe me, those topics have been addressed as well. Remember, sex is really quite a bawdy, erotic and stimulating experience for those who relish it and find it an exciting staple in their lives, and we use words and expressions that you also might find unacceptable in the AVEN very "public" forum...or words with which you simply couldn't identify with, just as we can't identify with totally sexless lives. Not always....but you never know, and it's perfectly acceptable in our forum, which is another great reason we needed a separate forum of our own, to really let our hair down at times and express ourselves any way we care to.

Anyway, 34 discussions as opposed to 2 words, "I understand"....is why sexuals need "their own" private group of sexuals with whom to communicate and buddy up with, and why it isn't possible to invite asexuals into our support group, and I'll state it again - it's because you can't miss what you don't have. It's really that simple.

Thanks for reading this long post, and I hope everybody has a nice day. Sincerely, Robin

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If my husband wanted to carry out sexual acts with men, then we don't have a romantic love. It isn't mutual at all. That is the difference between having a friend and having romantic love. I love all of my friends, but not the same way I love my boyfriend. I have no sexual desire toward my platonic friends, yet I have a sexual attraction to my mate.If my mate has no sexual attraction towards me, and yet towards others, I'm not sure we can have a romantic love.

Indeed, in that case sexual attracting isn't mutual, but I'm a little confused. You say earlier that you understand that sex and love are not the same thing, yet this passage seems to say that the difference between friendship and romance is sexual attraction. Seems by this that you believe that sexual attraction and romantic love are the same thing, could you explain further if this is not the case?

In sexual relationships, attraction is the thing that starts a relationship, whether that attraction be physical (which it is most of the time) or mental. But with sexuals, even if the attraction is mental first, it turns sexual eventually. It's just a way to share. So if a woman is married to a man that is homosexual, then she wants to share with him and he doesn't want to share with her. He wants to share with other men. Which won't work. At all. He can love her like a sister or a friend, but there is no passion.

You can love someone before you have sex with them, but with sexuals you eventually will want to, whether that is in the confines or marriage or long term relationship. Romantic love is often consumated by sex. Sex encompasses a passion and mental release you cannot get another way. There is no amount of talking that will produce it. That's why you read earlier a woman was happier with a man who beat her and not as happy with a man that was nice, but wouldn't have sex with her. If there is never any touching, ever, then unless it is a special case, it probably isn't romantic love. Sex isn't love, it just ADDS to love.

Sexuals have a hard time understanding relationships that lack sex. It feels like rejection. Romantic relationships do no always include sex, but either they will, or they have before. Cases where it hasn't may include long distance relationships, underage relationships, premarital relationships, but the people still know they are attracted to each other sexually. Where it has stopped occurring may be a disabled partner, elderly, etc. You don't stop loving the person because they don't give you sex, but it's hard for sexuals to understand why a person that is able bodied and close by won't have sex with you, especially if they have been having it.

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Sweetdreamer: Maybe you're misreading. A lot of us have said the two words that you demand. However, you don't seem to take notice that what you're doing is INCREDIBLY RUDE. You might have great intentions, but you're acting in an utterly tactless way.

I understand that you need sex and/or a support group.

I don't understand why you're posting about a group that excludes 90% of the AVEN population in AVEN itself. If you're not going to play by our rules (inclusiveness, openness, communication) then do not expect your group to be welcomed by the community.

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And that's probably the problem for many sexuals coming to this board' date=' that they - including myself - perceive it that the "burden" of the differences in the sexual area is almost exclusively on their shoulders. Most of the times, with asexual partners who do not even spend a minute a year on talking about it. Possibly because that matter is no problem for them.

I've only recently - and because my husband is one of those who don't want to talk about it so it is difficult to raise the subject at all - managed to get across to him that, when I am truly sad/depressed because the sex is missing in our marriage and sometimes cry about it, I don't just act up to put him under pressure to get my wil. But that these are moments when I am really weak and would need his sympathy. And that's taken us 15 years![/quote']

This passage got me to thinking. Usually when a sexual comes to AVEN, a good number of people give the advice to talk to their partner about it, even if their partner is hesitant to speak about it. It just struck me that by telling the sexual to initiate the conversation, it may seem that more of the burdon is placed specifically on the sexual. It was not the intent to place the burdon specifically on the sexual, but in most cases, the asexual is much less likely to initiate the conversation. So it seems that there is yet another burdon I had not previously considered placed upon the sexuals shoulders.

Anytime we air our grievances here' date=' we are hit with a tsunami of asexuals who are defending themselves, and/or taking offense to something said.[/quote']

Often times tone of text attached to the text is a bit insulting, or it somehow conveys the problem lies entirely with the asexual. This is just as likely to stirr up the defenses as the comment "my partner wants me to have sex with them and there's no way I will, that's just selfish of them" would to a sexual.

The only truly supportive one besides Mara who heads up the Sexuals support group, is Dara who understands because she was once a sexual involved with an asexual. She could empathize and showed true heart in her words because she understood being the sexual woman that she is, what it is like to be involved with a partner who has no passion and sex drive. Then another slew of e-mails would debate the topic further, and just perpetuated more confusion, and more defense mechanisms popping up all over the place as a result of it. It's so unnecessary and brings up so much conflict.

I am aware that I cannot empathize as well since I have no experience in relationships, nor am I sexual, and I am truly sorry if my words have fueled the conflict. I was simply trying to increase understanding between us.

The bottom line is...because asexuals are NOT sexual people, and have never (if ever) been terribly horny, and have little or no sex drive---how CAN you possibly give us the appropriate words of support or empathize with our feelings? YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MISS WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE! Do you understand?

I believe I have explicitly said that myself. Maybe not as forcefully, but I have said it.

Do you also understand that you jumped on me and other sexuals' posts like a bunch of piranha fish over one measily little request for support? All that gal needed who expressed herself that way was someone saying "yeah, it probably gets rough, I DO understand." THAT'S IT! That would have been support enough. That's my point. It doesn't stop there...more messages lashing out at not even the support requested...but the statement, itself.

I believe the problem wasn't the request for support, but the exclusion of all asexuals from the support group. Even if the support we can offer is lesser than that of those who can relate, exclusion still hurts to most people.

This wasn't a test. It was an honest presentation of a valid question from a sexual woman involved with an asexual man. The answers from this forum were everything from a cavalier, "So go get laid", to a disection of the word "compromise" and others who just thought it would be a cinch to get a divorce over it, and then all problems would be solved.

Most of the cited responses came after tempers flared up, and so were fueled by anger. The "go get laid" response, in particular, was in response to an angry post. Anger accomplishes nothing, this is true whether you are sexual or asexual.

You see, when you're with others who know how it feels, sometimes that's all you have to know is that the others in the group understand and are there for you, not in the way an asexual would understand, but in the way another sexual would understand. That's why you've established the AVEN board for asexuals, right? Birds of a feather can flock together, and also it's a learning and support site for those who are in the stages of self-discovery of their asexuality, as it should be. It should also be a very positive experience for asexuals. However, it's not always a positive experience for the sexual they are involved with to discover such a thing. I think that is something that the asexual community has failed to realize. This new discovery of asexuality will wreck many marriages; or leave one of the spouses devastated until they get to a support group that can help them deal with it.

Indeed many of us do realise this. We usually try to help them as best as possable, but as you said, we cannot relate directly. We can, on the other hand, try to provide the opposite perspective for them. As I have said before, understanding is also a big step in coping.

Those in our sexuals with asexuals support group are all familiar with the feelings and it truly helps just to KNOW that. We don't need somebody to tell us to use sex toys or vibrators or to masturbate as if we have the sexual I.Q. of a fly. We KNOW about these things, and believe me, those topics have been addressed as well. Remember, sex is really quite a bawdy, erotic and stimulating experience for those who relish it and find it an exciting staple in their lives, and we use words and expressions that you also might find unacceptable in the AVEN very "public" forum...or words with which you simply couldn't identify with, just as we can't identify with totally sexless lives. Not always....but you never know, and it's perfectly acceptable in our forum, which is another great reason we needed a separate forum of our own, to really let our hair down at times and express ourselves any way we care to.

Without knowing these "words" used, I cannnot accurately say how we would react. Perhaps such language is better in a private forum, but that is not something I can say accurately without knowing.

Perhaps AVEN is a good place for asexuals to "let their hair down," but others are always welcome to come in and add a counter point. I think most asexuals would be aware that the yahoo group would be directed towards and made for sexuals, and would be there only to provide insight as to their feelings in the relationship. I'm rather sure that those of us (myself included), who are not involved in or interested in sexual/asexual relationships, would say very little, if anything at all. I personally have no desire to join the yahoo group, it does not relate to me at all.

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It's just a way to share. So if a woman is married to a man that is homosexual, then she wants to share with him and he doesn't want to share with her. He wants to share with other men. Which won't work. At all. He can love her like a sister or a friend, but there is no passion.

So is passion purly physical? Does it revolve purely around this one methood of sharing, or can passion involve other forms of sharing as well?

The rest of your post did clarify things for me, I'm just still a little confused about that.

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It's just a way to share. So if a woman is married to a man that is homosexual, then she wants to share with him and he doesn't want to share with her. He wants to share with other men. Which won't work. At all. He can love her like a sister or a friend, but there is no passion.

I was just thinking, I've heard of some sexual people who are sexually attracted to one sex, but romantically attracted to the other.

Ok, that was slightly off topic, heh.

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What I don't get is why this group is coming to AVEN to announce itself... it's like the hypothetical Women's group going to a Men's Discussion Forum and telling the membership that their group is for women only.

It's been announced here because the knowledge of asexuality is very new and there's very little on that. People somehow find their way to this site, then understand it's not the right place exactle (for some at least), and they find the information about the group which they would normally not find.

In fact the debate about asexuals not invited to this group alone has brought many discussions from asexuals back to this board, so to speak as a defence of what we perceived as lack of respect and acceptance of our wish.

It's one thing to announce the existince of your group here. It's quite another to make a big production out of the fact that asexuals aren't welcome, and rubbing our faces in it. All that's left out is the "neener neener neener" at the end.

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It's one thing to announce the existince of your group here. It's quite another to make a big production out of the fact that asexuals aren't welcome, and rubbing our faces in it. All that's left out is the "neener neener neener" at the end.

Torgo, I was under the impression that when they origionally posted it, they didn't even mention that at all. It's been asexuals who've turned it into a whole issue with billboards and SFX and all that jazz. Frankly, I'm disappointed with AVEN as a community for how it's reacted to this.

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I was under the impression that when they origionally posted it, they didn't even mention that at all. It's been asexuals who've turned it into a whole issue with billboards and SFX and all that jazz. Frankly, I'm disappointed with AVEN as a community for how it's reacted to this.

They didn't. It became an issue when an asexual tried to join and was rejected because they were asexual. The posts afterward were mostly about how a one sided support group on a two sided issue like a sexual/asexual relationship would work (I use the term "side" to refer to sexuality/asexuality, not position or stance on the issue). To many, myself inclusive, it seemed like such an issue would require input from both sides to resolve. As I have said before, it is difficult to reach an understanding with each other if things are kept behind closed doors. I understand the need for others who relate, and emotional support is a good thing, but it is difficult to reach an eventual solution when the discussion is closed. Anyhow, I'm ranting my opinions and getting off topic here.

Back on topic, I think the whole origion of the conflict comes from the first response on why the forum is closed to asexuals. There was some wording that I do not believe was intended to be rude or offensive, but could have easily been interpreted as such. That sparked up some anger and harsh words, which in turn sparked more anger and harsh words, and we eventually wind up where we are now.

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It's just a way to share. So if a woman is married to a man that is homosexual, then she wants to share with him and he doesn't want to share with her. He wants to share with other men. Which won't work. At all. He can love her like a sister or a friend, but there is no passion.

I was just thinking, I've heard of some sexual people who are sexually attracted to one sex, but romantically attracted to the other.

Ok, that was slightly off topic, heh.

to my knowledge those people are bisexual. for instance a BI woman may be attracted sexually to both men and women, but only romantically attracted to men. It's my opinion that she just likes sex and doesn't care who with, but feels she can only connect romantically with men.

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Back on topic, I think the whole origion of the conflict comes from the first response on why the forum is closed to asexuals. There was some wording that I do not believe was intended to be rude or offensive, but could have easily been interpreted as such. That sparked up some anger and harsh words, which in turn sparked more anger and harsh words, and we eventually wind up where we are now.

I do agree with you that the wording was very questionable, and there were legitimate grounds for complaint about it. I was responding to a specific allegating in my post, and to the general disrespectful attitude in the thread. I clearly remember the origional writer of that post saying something about cleaning it up and correcting some of the wording so it wasn't as bad, but apparently that's not enough.

As to whether a support group can function without that kind of discourse... well, I would have thought the mature approach would have been to offer some sort of cooperation on behalf of AVEN, so that people who need to blow off steam and talk with others of their own kind have somewhere to meet (there), and also have a place to interact with asexuals and hear their side of the story (here).

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It's just a way to share. So if a woman is married to a man that is homosexual, then she wants to share with him and he doesn't want to share with her. He wants to share with other men. Which won't work. At all. He can love her like a sister or a friend, but there is no passion.

So is passion purly physical? Does it revolve purely around this one methood of sharing, or can passion involve other forms of sharing as well?

The rest of your post did clarify things for me, I'm just still a little confused about that.

No passion does not purely revolve around sex. But sex is a very powerful thing. It can make you stay with a person that isn't good for you, but can really enhance the relationship with a person that is good for you. Sex is something that is there to add to the passion in a relationship.It can add to shared ideas and values, spiritual bonds, etc. But you can't do more of the other things to replace it. It doesn't work.Feeling passion is usually in reference to romance.

As for the subject of homosexuals, they want to share their ideas, values, and spirituals bonds with other homosexuals. When they share otherwise, those people are friends and family.

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Back on topic, I think the whole origion of the conflict comes from the first response on why the forum is closed to asexuals. There was some wording that I do not believe was intended to be rude or offensive, but could have easily been interpreted as such. That sparked up some anger and harsh words, which in turn sparked more anger and harsh words, and we eventually wind up where we are now.

I do agree with you that the wording was very questionable, and there were legitimate grounds for complaint about it. I was responding to a specific allegating in my post, and to the general disrespectful attitude in the thread. I clearly remember the origional writer of that post saying something about cleaning it up and correcting some of the wording so it wasn't as bad, but apparently that's not enough.

As to whether a support group can function without that kind of discourse... well, I would have thought the mature approach would have been to offer some sort of cooperation on behalf of AVEN, so that people who need to blow off steam and talk with others of their own kind have somewhere to meet (there), and also have a place to interact with asexuals and hear their side of the story (here).

I don't deny that a support group just for sexuals can be a good thing. Though when i voiced up it was because that someone had said that this support group for sexuals only had a goal of helping those sexuals heal their relationships with asexuals. In my mind that's like asking a person who only knows Russian to teach you German.

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It's just a way to share. So if a woman is married to a man that is homosexual, then she wants to share with him and he doesn't want to share with her. He wants to share with other men. Which won't work. At all. He can love her like a sister or a friend, but there is no passion.

I was just thinking, I've heard of some sexual people who are sexually attracted to one sex, but romantically attracted to the other.

Ok, that was slightly off topic, heh.

to my knowledge those people are bisexual. for instance a BI woman may be attracted sexually to both men and women, but only romantically attracted to men. It's my opinion that she just likes sex and doesn't care who with, but feels she can only connect romantically with men.

I would have to say the person has different romantic and sexual orientatins. I personally have met people who were sexually attracted to both genders, but romantically attracted to one, and I've also known people who were romantically attracted to both but only sexually attracted to one.

But sex is a very powerful thing. It can make you stay with a person that isn't good for you, but can really enhance the relationship with a person that is good for you.

This actually clarifies a lot for me. Thanks.

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sweetdreamer

I apologize if I sounded rude. I understand why it would seem that I came off that way as I was in a "mood" about men and sex in general. There has been so many child abductions and murders by pedifiles, and women who are tortured and sexually violated by serial killers lately who are 97% male, that I almost think most men must have too much of the male hormone, testosterone, to make them want to do such evil things and become such deviant and warped sexual predators. Lately it just seems everytime I turn around I'm hearing on the news about another missing child, or a woman being raped, and/or their body turning up in a ditch, tossed away like so much trash, or being sold into white slavery for sex. Little girls and little boys who are so trusting and innocent in this world are being abducted every day, and terrible things are done to them by these sexual monsters. I honestly feel that something has gone terribly wrong with the mental sexual dynamics and possibly even the hormones in men over the last couple of generations. Could it be that asexuality is nature's way of balancing this sickness out by creating and introducing another sexual extreme on this planet? What is happening here and what is causing it? On one hand there's the psychopathic, sadistic sexual predators that are out there (increasing in numbers) just laying in wait for their next victim to sexually violate and possibly murder. On the other hand, there's the asexual who could give a heck at all about sex at all, and DO respect women and children, and who are gentle people, who are more interested in things that will enlighten and stimulate their soul's spiritual growth. Both of these extremes are mostly men. Hey, if God has to do away with a man's sex drive in order to breed the mental and physical deviancy out of mankind, I'm all for it. So even though I talk about being horny at times and miss the romantic and passionate sex with my asexual husband, I'm really not that short-sighted. I feel there is something much bigger going on in the picture of the world right now that can't be explained or shown to us at this time. There's the law of cause and affect, and all things must balance out sooner or later. I've heard it said that earthquakes, and natural disasters for instance, are nature's way of reducing the population on the earth or there would be too many people in the world. Could it be that people who are born Asexuals are here to more or less, conquer the enemy, and they are part of a grander scheme than we can imagine? I would like to think so. There is a reason for everything, and although I may seem one-sided when it comes to the separation of Sexual/Asexual forums or egroups, I'm not putting down the Asexual one bit. If, in fact, Asexual men/women are necessary to help mankind evolve into a lesser sexual being which would save the lives of women and children, I'm going to be the first to place a medal of honor on their chests. I'm not out to make any asexual feel that they are not as "special" just because they lack a sex drive, in fact, the "bigger picture" would implicate that the opposite it true. HOWEVER, on a day-to-day basis, and on a more individual and personal way, we shouldn't deprive one another of the self-esteem and respect that we are worthy of. We each have a responsibility not to throw rocks at each other just because we're all different and I want to apologize if I've ever come across that way. I prefer to feel more philosophical about the Asexual phenomena. It's just that it's difficult when the asexual and sexual are not on the same page at the same time, that's all. Meanwhile, I hope to be able to visit the AVEN board from time to time to share my point of views and really try not to be seen as someone who doesn't "understand" the asexual way-of-thinking, or someone who is judgmental or rude. I have very strong feelings on the subject of sex right now and it's very disturbing to me to see what is going on in this world with more women and children missing everyday and knowing that most of it is due to the male gender, whether they be straight or gay. Why is that? I just don't understand. Too much testosterone maybe...or too little?? If anybody has any thoughts or opinions they'd like to contribute or share on this topic, I'd be very interested in reading it. God bless, Robin

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deladangerous

Your sudden change in attitude is a little strange to me, but I'll play.

Both of these extremes are mostly men.

I wouldn't be so certain about that. . .(how do you figure?) AVEN's got more females than males by quite a bit, actually... And we are no more or less evil a community because of our testosterone levels.

From what I've seen, sadly, not all asexual males respect women all that much. Also, true that we might be helping out some kind of grandiose world balance or something by playing the part of the sexual deviants' opposite, but we're not solving any problems just by existing.

We're really just normal people who generally aren't interested in sex. While it's kind of good that with your last post, at least you weren't pitching insults at us or saying that we're 'broken', it's probably for the best that we not be complimented for being something we aren't, or be told that we're particularly lucky to be of a certain orientation, or that we're holier than anybody, or that we're a catalyst for the evolution of mankind (oh, if only ;)), either... Nope. We're not freaks, we're not saints. We just are. The only oceans that separate us as human beings are the ones we create ourselves, in whatever way we happen to do so.

That said, I'm agreeing with Hexpiral's last post.

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MaraKarina
AVEN's got more females than males by quite a bit, actually...

From what I've seen, sadly, not all asexual males respect women all that much.

The prejudice that "for men, sex is far more important than for women" and that "women can live without sex, men cannot", has always given women a lot more freedom in not wanting sex. Men by that same prejudice are required to "want".

That alone may account for many more females to be open about their being asexual. The women in relationship to asexuals very often complain about their partners not wanting to talk about it at all. And in some instances, their partners are really turning into disgusting creatures at times when the topic is raised or overall just building nasty walls around themselves which give them the air of disrespect towards women etc. Which, of course, would also mean that it's not irrelevant for them and that it may hurt.

Another reason for that may be that men very often don't like to talk about things as much as women do. When I have a problem, it's a relief to me if I can talk about it, even if that brings no solution. For a man it's (not the rule, but often) to just close up, pretend that everything's just fine, and if someone disturbs them at that, "bark".

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I have to wholeheartedly agree with dela: we're not special. We're just regular people, we've always been here (as opposed to being a recent change in human behavior), and we're not better than anyone else. I also think that asexual rapists could exist, since in my mind what defines a rapist is wanting to hurt others, as opposed to just satisfying an urge (I mean, prostitutes are much cheaper than spending your life in jail, and much more if you take into account the sympathy that inmates tend to have towards rapists).

Really, nature/God/whatever does not invent kinds of people to satisfy a need. And in any case, many asexuals who've checked their hormones have gotten normal results. So determining the cause of a sexual orientation (or lack thereof) is not as simple as you put it.

So, thanks for the compliments, but they're a bit unhealthy. I don't think we're any better or worse than anyone else. As dela said, we're just people.

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MaraKarina

This passage got me to thinking. Usually when a sexual comes to AVEN' date=' a good number of people give the advice to talk to their partner about it, even if their partner is hesitant to speak about it. It just struck me that by telling the sexual to initiate the conversation, it may seem that more of the burdon is placed specifically on the sexual. It was not the intent to place the burdon specifically on the sexual, but in most cases, the asexual is much less likely to initiate the conversation. So it seems that there is yet another burdon I had not previously considered placed upon the sexuals shoulders.

[/quote']

Talk about it? No, that's an absolute no-no!! Could just as well get on the table and dance naked with the house full of guests. Reactions on my husband's part, at least 99.5% of the time when I tried to bring the subject up ranged from defending himself by shouting at me, insulting me, calling me names from nymphomanic (for complaining about a complete lack of sex for over 6 years .... ) to narrow-minded, and ALWAYS putting full blame on me because I pressure too much (for mentioning it every 9 - 15 months ...), and to his distancing himself that far from me that we didn't have anything else in common except two people living in the same house - in short mentioning the subject turns him into a monster!

And after we've managed to get back to at least to something like a great friend-ship, you bet, he's won this as well. In addition to not having any sex, he'll not be having to have any discussion about it any more.

It's just that this, again, acts like a separating wall.

All I do now is pray and see what God leads us to, whatever that is. I cannot bear it any other way, and I cannot uphold a marriage on my own. I am glad I know that some of my problems (overweight I've managed to get rid of, type of dress, etc.) are a result thereof, and I've managed to keep them under control.

It's not that my husband is a monster overall, otherwise he's just a great guy. Which is the part which prevents it from being black and white.

It's not even that I think that sex is of highest priority or importance. It's only become such a major subject, because it's been the reason for so much grief and deeply hurting fights. I would NEVER go and have a relationship that's built purely on sex. Would consider that cheap.

Do you know Guenter Grass' film or book "The tin drum"? Little Oscar at some point in his life decided he'd stop growing - and he did. Psychology knows this type of "effective decisions" in all areas and for all types of reasons, and we usually don't remember them! Which makes many psychological problems really difficult to solve.

I mentioned at one point I lost my parents when I was 13. The following years with my relatives made a few such decisions necessary in my own life. I did not make them consciously, but they kept my life in certain gears, absolutely perfectly, as no outside force could have. Only through a therapy last year did I manage to understand these decisions and change them - to allow myself to be myself (and not suppress vital aspects of my personality which I did to be as my relatives wanted me to be). I.e., from my own experience I know these forces, and I know you don't know THAT they are there, not to mention where they come from or why they are there. That is, until the time when you somehow recognize them. If you do. I did recognize some mechanism a little over 30 years later, very often, it's never noticed (and often there's no need to as well).

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Goonie

A post earlier you answered to another post "so go get laid" - which is about the biggest insult you could make to a sexual person suffering from his/per partner's sexual neglect. Did you mean that to be an insult? If so I doubt you are serious about understanding us.

Actually, it far from being taken as an insult. I am more of an analytically minded person. Thus, tried to be supportive and offered a solution.

And if you doubt my seriousness, check out my other posts in this thread.

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MaraKarina

Goonie,

How could that be a solution if the husband refuses sex?

Unless you suggested she would go and find someone or something else for it - and to suggest that WOULD be an insult.

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