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Invite To A Support Group for Sexuals Involved With Asexuals


Sweetdreamr45

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Sweetdreamr45

First let me clear this up. I already changed the description of the support group weeks ago to state: "For those "experiencing" feelings of depression, frustration, etc..." and removed the word "victimized". It seems to be very acceptable to all now (sexuals and asexuals).

I'm sorry that you didn't realize that before you published an essay on the topic, but nobody wants to slap you in the face. You don't have to worry about it, all is well. The support group is for sexuals involved with asexuals, which addresses some of the basic phases the Sexual goes through in their recognition and acceptance of their relationship with the Asexual. Many of them feel victimized somewhat after they first learn that their partner is an Asexual. It's a normal phase to go through. I take them through a series of phases until they reach a point of acceptance and non-blame of their Asexual mate and from there, learn to make adjustments within OURSELVES to deal with it. The problem is that in many hetersexual relationships, people look to their partner for validation of their sexuality, desirable, etc. which in turn, enhances their feelings of self-esteem, self-confidence and self-worth. In the support group they're taught they must NOT look to their Asexual partner for that validation, and that they have to develop new ways to see their relationship and new ways to validate themselves. Sorry you didn't know about the change of wording! Take care, Robin

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I'm sorry that you didn't realize that before you published an essay on the topic...Sorry you didn't know about the change of wording!

I did know, actually. And the new wording sounds much better. But that didn't change the fact that I had something to say about the first wording, so I said it. You claim to have felt like a victim, and I felt assulted. And I'm the type to express that. It's good that you changed it, and I'm not arguing with that. But my feelings on the subject weren't just going to go away unless I laid them out first. I have done so. I am done.

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I just found about my husband being asexual, I mean I knew we weren't having sex but didn't know why, I totally thought it was me, something was wrong. He doesn;t like to even talk about it much less do it. I knew he was a virgin when we met and got married...Both 25 years old. I thought I was lucky and found the one guy out there that wasn't all about sex, which is nice for a change, He never once told me that he didn't like it all together until just last week, even after all those arguments we've had... now maybe he was just uncomfortable telling me something like that, but really, WE ARE MARRIED!!! I love him so much and am supporting him, and I'll certainly think twice about picking a fight with him about it... As a sexual person though I can't help but think about the rest of my life not having sex, especially with the man I love. What do I do??? I will always remain faithful to him, but I'm lost and don;t know what to do.

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Sweetdreamr45

I have to apologize to you. I thought you were directing your long e-mail to me when you were actually having a conversation with another AVEN member. I'm not one to interfere with anyone else's conversations and when it came through as a topic notice from the AVEN board, I thought you were talking to me. Please accept my apology. You have every right to express your feelings and opinions to anyone. Robin

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Hi Forbidden Fury,

Thank you for your message. Yes, I believe you are right in many ways about my husband. It's only recently that I found about about asexuals even existing and only from then could/can I start to look into things anew and hopefully find new ways with my husband.

I possibly come across a little frustrated; please don't consider that to be anything against any asexual person or even against my husband. Just take it as a sign of the emotional wounds I've got during the past years and which I could never really understand.

You write: You probably would have either assumed there was something wrong with you (which you probably did, despite his telling you otherwise) or you would have told him that something was wrong with HIM, and that he needed to see someone to get it "fixed."

Well, in fact my husband DID tell me that he was fine and I was all wrong (e.g. that I would be inferior/primitive because I had sexual needs, and worse), and over the years, when my self-esteem was rather low because I felt there might be something wrong with me if he never wanted me, he would start picking and blaming me for the things which, to me, were affects from our sexual differences which at the moment I just couldn't help suffering from. He would use those things as reasons why he didn't feel attracted, making things worse.

I understand each relationship is unique as each person is experiencing things differently.

It certainly is very helpful for me to read the many posts on this forum to understand my husband and stop suffering from differences which both of us just didn't understand. I've read somewhere for example that asexuals separate love from sex. Now, I've always considered sex without love as not ok and particularly enjoy the closeness it brings. My husband also thinks sex got nothing to do with love and that's probably why he suggested I should just find someone else for sex.

To me that suggestion is a nightmare (which he cannot understand) because I love my husband and that is why I'd like to have sex with him. I find the idea to have sex with someone I don't love disgusting. To have sex with someone else, I'd have to find another man I love, which I am afraid would be a serious threat to my relationship with my husband and which, for years, I've simply refused for this very reason.

I think I'll join the group which Robin has created, it will do me good to use whatever information I can get. Maybe it will work miracles in our marriage (I understand this miracle will NOT be that my husband will change his sexual orientation), help understand him or explain to him better (in a non-accusational way) how I feel, and help me survive in this.

And, yes, I do wish to stay with my husband, I do love him. It is just that his behaviour so often makes me feel that he doesn't care for me and would prefer me to be gone. Guess the most important thing is that we find ways that he can communicate that in a way which I can understand.

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I've read somewhere for example that asexuals separate love from sex. Now, I've always considered sex without love as not ok and particularly enjoy the closeness it brings. My husband also thinks sex got nothing to do with love and that's probably why he suggested I should just find someone else for sex.

That's true. But I felt the need to add to it a little more. Each person is different, of course. Asexuals don't see sex=love, love=sex, also true. We don't need sex to furful the love feelings or to express them. There are other ways to do that. But I must say that not all of us would feel comfortable suggesting sex with someone else. Some would, some wouldn't. Some asexuals are willing to have sex with their partners (to various levels). Some enjoy it physically, some emotionally, some both and some neither. So while asexuals don't need sex to express their love, some that have that love will have sex. Aside from curiousity, I'd think most of us wouldn't have sex with someone unless we were in love with them, because it's for our partners. It doesn't have to be linked, but it can be. It's probably just not to the same extent it is for sexuals, something thats NEEDED in order to completely express oneself.

I'm sorry your husband turned his anger about sex out on you. It was no doubt his frusteration and confusion speaking, but he shouldn't have done that. :( He needs to be willing to learn about himself and explore. Only then might he be comfortable enough to openly discuss this with you.

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Asexuals don't see sex=love, love=sex, also true.

Is this necessarily true? I mean, the association of two ideas like that is a pretty straightforward thing. Unless you make that part of the definition of an asexual in the first place.

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Asexuals don't see sex=love, love=sex, also true.

Is this necessarily true? I mean, the association of two ideas like that is a pretty straightforward thing. Unless you make that part of the definition of an asexual in the first place.

Yes, its true. If an asexual saw love=sex, for example, they would want sex. While an asexual may have sex with a partner, and may even enjoy it physically and/or emotionally, they do not need the sex to show love, and with no sex they don't feel as if anything is missing. The association of sex and love may seem straightforward to you, but to an asexual it's not. This doesn't mean that they don't believe that IF you have sex, it should be with a loving partner. That's entirely up to the individual. But sex as a whole isn't a necessary part of love, like is often is with sexuals. It doesn't have to be part of the definition though because the entire sexual attraction/sexual desire thing suggests it to start with.

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  • 1 month later...

Robin

I am an asexual and you have my total support in this. I used to

come on this board and got exactly the same treatment as you have done here, hence why I come back very infrequently now. It has the potential to change lives for the better, but the atmosphere and intimidation by the same few people leave many feeling worse than before they had discovered AVEN. The intentions behind the concept were good, but it seems that there are a handful of people who spend ALL their spare time on here and expect everyone to both listen to and agree with them...or else. These same people were on here months ago, having a go at me, and have since been at the throats of many other people simply looking for somewhere where they feel comfortable. People often come here when they are at their most vulnerable - and this is often the treatment they get. There are many genuine, kind people on this board, but they come and go - they have lives outside of AVEN. Be very aware of those main posters who have taken over and think that they have the ultimate truth on asexuality. They don't. You have handled this really well considering, and I applaud you for your tolerance and understanding throughout - I cannot say that I would have handled being spoken to in this manner as well at all. Every time I visit this site (which is not at all often) I leave with the same dreadful feeling. My advice to you Robin is to put your valuable time and energies into setting up what will be a valuable support group and do not turn to the regulars on this board for advice. You have seen what can happen. I wish you every success. Please PM me if you would like some moral support.

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Sweetdreamr45

Thanks so much for your support, and your subjective opinion about some of the negativity surrounding the Aven postings It's not the first time I've heard this about some of the asexuals who post here. There should be another Board or Group set up for optional interactions so the same people stop ruling the roost. Every situation is different, and there is no hard and fast rules for asexuals with sexuals or for just asexuals. Each person is unique, and when they're discussing their personal sexuality (or lack of it) it can't (and shouldn't) be expressed with a "collective" conciousness or a predictable attitude. Each perspective should be respected, understood, and given the opportunity and freedom to explain what it means to them as an individual to have discovered their asexuality and how it's affecting their life--without feeling attacked or stifled in any way...or put into a slot that reads "asexuality". I feel that should be the most interesting and important part of Aven, is allowing others to express the different dynamics that go into their personal relationships with sexuals or other asexuals. That's how we learn, by listening. By listening, you also give dignity and understanding to the concept of asexuality. Sorry I went on and on for so long. Again, thanks for your support!! Robin

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You might want to mention on the board that this is a place for sexuals only rather than asexuals who might be curious about what their partners are going through, or thinking of recommending it? Unless you denied my request because I'm a jerk or something :)

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  • 1 month later...
sweetdreamer

Great! It worked and I can discuss things on this topic again. I have an idea. Since some of the asexuals can't understand why we need our own private support group with no Sexuals allowed, I propose that I write to you as if I were writing to the support group (Sexuals_with_Asexuals). Then, you, as an asexual are invited to give me support, without arguing, without getting "stuck" on words that you feel undermine your characters or personas in the asexual community---because remember, the support group is not about YOU...it's about US. Let's try your hand at it. Here is an actual message I once wrote to the support group:

"I just want to get frickin laid tonight!! I told my asexual husband but he just kept watching television and pretending he didn't hear me, which I know he did. I feel so undesirable. Sometimes I feel like I should get a lover on the side so I can feel desired again and satisfy these longings I have."

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MaraKarina
If you CHOOSE to be in a relationship, and you can CHOOSE to leave it, and you are not being FORCED to do anything against your will, how can that possibly be victimization? I think if ANYONE feels like that within a relationship, they need to get out of it!

Forbidden Fury,

I certainly feel victimized in my relationship as I didn't know before what was expecting me. I wrote before that my husband used to be completely different in the beginning.

So, yes, I CHOSE to be in a relationship with my husband. I did not choose to be in a sexless marriage, nor did I have any idea that could happen with a husband who simply doesn't like it.

Now, your suggestion that anyone who feels like that should get out of the relationship. That's fine for people who are not concerned with divorce or remarriage. How about those to whom marriage is a once-in-a-lifetime matter, whether that is based on their belief, as in my case, or because they see real needs because of children, finances.

I feel it is very easy to pretend something, then set up new rules and expect the other to be either happy or leave. Though the sexual partner is not forced to do anything against his/her wil, the rules of the relationship are changed against his/her wil. And there are affects on the sexual partner, often manyfold and negative, which are due to neglect of their needs which are not respected and accepted.

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Ok, I'd say that YOU have to realise what YOUR husband is experiancing. YOU have to understand and not push when he doesn't want it.

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MaraKarina
Ok, I'd say that YOU have to realise what YOUR husband is experiancing. YOU have to understand and not push when he doesn't want it.

What advice would you give me if we had married when both of us felt we were asexuals, and suddenly he decided he loves sex. Would I then have to accept the change and have sex with him as I have to accept the neglect?

Do you think it is fair for one person to decide on a complete change in the relationship?

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Do you think it is fair for one person to decide on a complete change in the relationship?

Of course not. However, it basically boils down to one of two options. Either you reach a compromise (in which each of you would have to concede something) or the relationship ends.

because remember, the support group is not about YOU...it's about US.

You mean, just like AVEN is a group from which asexuals draw support, and yet you're here making posts?

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MaraKarina
Do you think it is fair for one person to decide on a complete change in the relationship?

Of course not. However, it basically boils down to one of two options. Either you reach a compromise (in which each of you would have to concede something) or the relationship ends.

Unfortunately, the sexual is very often the one expected to give 99% and the asexual willing to compromise 1% only, or promising compromise and not keeping it!

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MaraKarina
You mean, just like AVEN is a group from which asexuals draw support, and yet you're here making posts?

The AVEN site says that sexuals are welcome to post

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Unfortunately, the sexual is very often the one expected to give 99% and the asexual willing to compromise 1% only, or promising compromise and not keeping it!

The sexual is never "meant to compromise". Again, if any of the partners decides that they'd rather not be in a relationship under those terms, they can leave. If both parties can opt to leave at any moment (and both know that the other can do the same), compromise shouldn't be too hard. Unless there's a secret cabal of asexuals sending death squads to force sexual partners to remain in abusive relationships I don't see how one group is specifically discriminated against.

The AVEN site says that sexuals are welcome to post

Sure, and it should remain so. We even have this forum which is specifically meant for sexuals. In fact, if I remember correctly, creating it was my idea. That's why I think that a support group that does not welcome asexuals is hypocritical. We're not excluding you from our discussions (and never will), yet you abuse our trust by publicizing a group in which we are specifically banned from entering.

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I think the problem is that a lot of people are speaking in generalities. I do feel like a victim, but I acknowledge that I allowed myself to be victimized. I was very young when I got into my marriage, just out of college. I didn't undertsand why my husband refused to have sex with me. He wouldn't talk about it, if I brought it up he berated me and told me I was being mean. He made me feel that I was abnormal for wanting sex and that there was something wrong with me. I let him because I was scared what I would do without him and I thought I loved him. I also thought that no one else would want me, because I felt that his lack of desire was my fault. Now, some people may be fine in a sexless marriage and that's great for them. I was not. I know that sex is not equal to love but sex is a way that I can show love and affection and a way that I wish to receive love and affection. It makes me whole.

I finally met someone that could give me everything that I personally wanted and needed and I left my husband. As time has passed, I still speak with him. He has never acknowledged that he is asexual. He simply continues to blame our lack of sex (for 6 yrs of marriage) on me. To quote him "it takes two to tango" -- meaning that it takes two people for sex not to happen, meaning it was my fault too. And now he's having sex with his new girlfriend -- another way for him to show that I was the problem.

Now I know all asexuals are different, but my husband emotionally abused me. By failing to even listen or care that I was being deprived of something by our relationship, he invalidated me and my feelings. Could we have reached a compromsie if he'd been willing to acknoweledge that we had a problem and that something was wrong with our relationship? I don't know.

He has left lasting scars on me.

And I blame him. And myself.

And if you're in a wonderful loving happy relationship with an asexual, why are you even on this board?

And it is the attitude that sexuals are just horny and want sex that makes sexuals desire there own board where no one will be judgmental of them. Believe it or not, for me sex is more than a physical need. It is a desire to share myslef and be close to my partner. For me sex does equal love.

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And it is the attitude that sexuals are just horny and want sex that makes sexuals desire there own board where no one will be judgmental of them.

I, for one, don't hold that view and I've fought against it in the past. I understand being offended at it. However, many asexuals experience similar situations on the other side of the fence: they are perceived as being wrong, broken, defective or repressed (assumptions that are reinforced by dominant sex-positive media). You can see examples of that kind of symbolic violence in countless relationship advice columns, which seldom blame intolerant sexuals who are as real as intolerant asexuals. Therefore, asexuals also need their own board, AVEN where people won't be judgemental of them. It's just that we allow and encourage sexual people participating in our discussions and even contesting our views, as it has often happened in the past.

Again, I'm not against sexual people in unfair relationships having a board. I just think that it's rude and hypocritical to promote it in AVEN, and that expecting people not to be offended is plainly naive. We have had similar discussions from the other side, and we've never hid them from sexuals. And I believe many of us have learnt about sexuals posting their experiences in AVEN.

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ApolloSeek
Asexuals don't see sex=love, love=sex, also true.

Is this necessarily true? I mean, the association of two ideas like that is a pretty straightforward thing. Unless you make that part of the definition of an asexual in the first place.

I have always seen sex and love as decorrelated unless the person links them.

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ApolloSeek
Ok, I'd say that YOU have to realise what YOUR husband is experiancing. YOU have to understand and not push when he doesn't want it.

What advice would you give me if we had married when both of us felt we were asexuals, and suddenly he decided he loves sex. Would I then have to accept the change and have sex with him as I have to accept the neglect?

Do you think it is fair for one person to decide on a complete change in the relationship?

First, he can't help being asexual any more than you can help being

sexual. So "feeling victimized", trying to change him, won't work. He has

no more power to control his asexuality than you have to deflect a

thunderstorm.

No one on AVEN that I know choose to be asexual. I sure didn't.

As for it being fair for one une person to decide on a complete change in

the relationship, it isn't. Guess what-life is not fair. Furthermore, your SO

didn't decide to be asexual. He has no choice in the matter.

There are many ways to correct the situation. Sex toys, masterbation, male escorts. The main idea is to do something constructive, however

small.

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looking back at this thread I think I have two things I'd like to say:

1) The post about the sexual being expected to do 99% of the compromise struck me. Be aware I have no experience in relationships, so I am talking purely on theory here. Relationships are about compromise, and compromise is about meeting halfway. Sexual desire is difficult to quantify, so defining where halfway is would be difficult, but to deny sex completely isn't fair. As an asexual, I can not understand why sex is so important to sexuals, but from what I have learned here, I can not ignore that to sexuals, it definately is important.

The only way I can see to "meet halfway" would be to figure how often the sexual would like sex, and have sex somewhere between that number and zero, but definately have some. An asexual might be hesitant to do this, as the sexual could easily exaggerate their sexual desire to boost the number of times, but relationships are also about trust, and if the couple is to the point of working out a compromise over sex, I would hope there would be enough trust there to work out a good compromise.

Another issue that sexuals will have to deal with, though, is that in many cases, the only satisfaction the asexual will get from the sex is the satisfaction of knowing they have satisfied their partner. Very little, if any satisfaction will come from the act itself. The sexual needs to be prepared for that. I have heard and read about some sexuals who are unsatisfied with being unable to sexually satisfy their partner. If you are one of these people, then that will make the sexual/asexual relationship all the more difficult.

If your asexual partner is compromising, though, look at what they are doing for you. You may be dissatisfied with how little sex you are getting, but be aware that your partner is also sacrificing their desire to have no sex for your sake. That's what compromise is, sacrificing some one each side for the better of the relationship.

As to why it may seem the asexual is compromising so little, when sex is actually had, the sexual does gain some of what they want, even if it is very little. The asexual, on the other hand, gains nothing other than the satisfaction of their partner. While the sexual is gaining pleasure from it, often times the asexual is going through a chore. Neglecting the satisfaction gained from having a satisfied partner, compromising on sex is a pure loss for the asexual. Hense the hesitation. I personally believe that for the better of a sexual/asexual relationship, that is a necessasary loss, but be aware that it is a practically a pure loss on the asexuals part, little to nothing is gained.

2) Concerning the reaction to your yahoo group. I can understand a little your desire to have a group soley for sexuals involved with asexuals, no one else can better understand and relate your frustration. I know that while I can understand why you are frustrated, on no level can I actually relate. The problem comes mostly from the presentation. While this would likely be the best place to find people interested in said group, it is a little rude to announce it's existance at a place where 90%+ of the membership won't be permitted. While I personally take no offense, I can easily see how other could (and did).

Another concern that others have is that such a group makes it a one sided issue. Things cannot be easily resolved unless both parties are involved. Even if asexuals cannot relate, how can either side expect to understand the needs of the other if they don't discuss the issues with each other? Things are usually best handled when looked at from all perspectives, and this yahoogroup only sees from a sexual perspective.

Best of luck, no matter which way things turn out.

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"I just want to get frickin laid tonight!! I told my asexual husband but he just kept watching television and pretending he didn't hear me, which I know he did. I feel so undesirable. Sometimes I feel like I should get a lover on the side so I can feel desired again and satisfy these longings I have."

So go get laid.

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I definitely am glad that it is understood that 99% of compromise is expected of the sexual. At least one person understood that.

I would also like to address the fact that quite a few of the previous posters seem to feel totally at ease with the deception these women have felt. This question if fot the aesexuals. What if you thought you were in an aesexual relationship and your partner eventually came to the point where they started asking for sex and consequently told you they'd discovered that they are sexual? It would horrify you.Would you try to understand and try to have sex with person? You would not only feel betrayed and deceived, but you could also have the creeping feeling the person was just pretending to be aesexual until you developed strong feelings for them, which would make it hard to leave. That's how these women feel.

Some aesexuals seems to have a total lack of understanding about relationships that include sex. Not wanting to have sex with your partner is not as minute as not liking broccoli or not liking action movies, it's more than that.

The situation is really no different than homosexuals living on the "down low". They end up hurting people and messing up people's lives due to their own lack of knowledge about who they are. They know they are not attracted to their mate, but sometimes they have purposes that are self serving such as wanting to have a family and appear normal to society.Should the heterosexual person try to understand them and work around it?

Finally, I have to address being a victim. It doesn't matter if you commit a crime and it is not malicious. If a friend shot me mistake or not, I would still bleed, therefore I am still the victim.

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so.. instead of telling us we have a lack of understanding, which I see a lot in these posts, why don't you try to help us understand in a non condesending way? Or, if that is not an option in this game of life, instead of lecturing us about the evilness of our ways, why not save that post for the support group?

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Great! It worked and I can discuss things on this topic again. I have an idea. Since some of the asexuals can't understand why we need our own private support group...
Sure, and it should remain so. We even have this forum which is specifically meant for sexuals. In fact, if I remember correctly, creating it was my idea. That's why I think that a support group that does not welcome asexuals is hypocritical. We're not excluding you from our discussions (and never will), yet you abuse our trust by publicizing a group in which we are specifically banned from entering.

Let me get this straight... the Sexuals-with-Asexual-Partners people want their own group, one where Asexuals are not allowed. Okay, fine. Whatever. I can even understand the basis for the "No Asexuals Allowed" rule... it's akin to a "relationships support group" for women having a "no men allowed" rule. In that context, it makes sense.

What I don't get is why this group is coming to AVEN to announce itself... it's like the hypothetical Women's group going to a Men's Discussion Forum and telling the membership that their group is for women only.

It's a little like going to an NAACP meeting trying to sell memberships in the KKK. And it seems to be getting about the same kind of response. Especially when the people behind this new group seem to be taking delight in rubbing our noses in the fact that we can't be part of their group.

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