Invite To A Support Group for Sexuals Involved With Asexuals

[Sweetdreamr45]

This group is a support group for Sexuals who are involved with Asexuals. Everyone who joins can remain anonymous (or not), and can ask questions, give advice or just vent if they feel like it. Those who join this group are those who have been victimized by this dramatic deprivation to the extent that it causes depression, frustration, feelings of neglect, loss of self-confidence, undesirability, and so forth. We need to help one another cope with the isolation, lonliness, and feelings of unworthiness sometimes connected to it, as well as some of the positive hallmarks of the asexual's influence as well. I am a very Sexual woman who is married to a very Asexual man, and I will be moderating. Robin

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sexualswithasexuals

[whistler]

I know this will come off as harsh. I truly don't mean that, but text is a hard medium to get inflection across.

Robin, I agree with the idea of a sexual asexual board based on sexuals. This is hard for us. This site is wonderful, but to remain respectful is to stay within the asexual bounds. I won't overstep them as I respect others and truly need their support.

As far as what left me upset feeling, no it might have been downright angry. It was the word "victimized" My SO has done no such thing to me. I would never allow it. I'm a feisty one and would never make a good victim.

To imply victim is to imply grievous harm by a perpetrator. If my SO thought I felt this way he would ask me to leave. How can you be a victim by something NOT happening? I have never won the Publishers Clearing House, and I would never consider joining an anti-McMahon board. If you want a victim, we can try to force my asexual SO to do things he's against, then we'll have a true victim to discuss. Until then, it's just me in a relationship I chose, unfulfilled in a carnal way. That’s not such a big deal. He’s fulfilled in a carnal way, why am I so much more important than him? We have the same choices and here we are.

I choose the life I have, my self worth comes from me, not sex, not others opinions.

I can leave my current relationship at any time (as can he), I can choose what I want. I would never choose to classify myself as a victim, to do that is to give power. My SO has no desire to hold that power over me. That's the whole point. He would be demolished if he thought I felt that way and chose and internet medium to discuss what others felt were inadequacies. I come here only to understand where I stand, not where others think he fails.

I have had a worse relationship, I felt all of those things 10 times over. Those came from my sexual husband. My current SO would never betray me in such a way and would never expect me to do so to him.

So, in short. I appreciate you are trying, however setting your site up on bitterness and resentment does no one any good.

Like I said, the post left me angry, this is probably more harsh than it should be. Loyalty to my partner is the most important thing, and even though your post was not directed to me, I felt the need to defend our relationship and define who I was. I am Aurora. I am an extremely sexual female, totally in love with and asexual. I am willing to control my carnal desires to reap the benefits of a healthy relationship with a non-carnal person. I am not a victim, I made a choice.

[Sweetdreamr45]

Let me cut to the chase here - I love my Asexual husband, too, with all my heart and soul - but there are consequences to loving an Asexual, and you can't deny that. It's all relative - some feel the way you do, some feel the way I do, and that's why I have a "support" group, that's what a "support group" is all about...those who have feelings that need to be addressed. You don't have any idea how many Sexuals (both men and women) wrote me privately to express their gratitude and acknowledgment that I spoke about these emotions which can be a "side affect" of being in a relationship with an Asexual, because they are experiencing them. Obviously, you don't need to join the support group - good for you. On the other hand, there may be those who think and feel differently and DO need support and LOTS of it. Out of respect for the Asexual community I decided there should be a private group to air these suppressed emotions and opinions, and that it should not be on this message board. Also, some of the "Sexuals" have confided to me that they would not feel comfortable talking about their feeling on the Aven board, and now I can see why. I have the utmost respect for this website, and believe it is a positive movement, and that you are indeed answering the "call" of a lot of Asexuals who need to be validated. HOWEVER, there ARE victims who need to be validated as well. Robin

[whistler]

Before you read this message. I want you to understand that I am a sexual, my opinions in no way reflect the asexual or sexual community. It all comes out of my pretty little head and I don't like to share that part of me.

OK, like I said, text is hard and can come across as way too harsh. I really thought I was wrong in my assumptions and you would set me right. I know where I stand now and I thank you for that. This one you can take as you like, any inflection you choose.

I am in no way invalidating yours and others feelings. After reading your reply, I want you to rethink your motivation. I believe a board needs to exist for people like us, and I am happy you took on that responsibility, I would not have had enough in me to commit that much time to others on our view of the community.. I know that sounds canned, but I mean it. Thank you. However, I will not be joining as I am happy with love only, and there are two things I value in my life, intimacy and the capacity for joy. I don't feel a lot of that in your minimal communication.

I still deeply object to "victim". Once again, you show me how someone is a victim by NOT having something done to them and I’ll apologize. There is no victim in an asexual relationship, only misunderstanding. If you married a man who cannot fulfill your needs and made it apparent beforehand, leave. That does not make you a victim. It makes you someone who couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Same here. Difference is I accepted my choice, you are full of self-pity towards yours and wish to drag others down with you.

I have read your past posts just to be sure I knew what you were saying. You said you knew this going in, but you thought you could change him.

We are both women, sound about the same, decently educated, somewhat worldly. What I don't understand is why you thought you could change your husbands sexual needs. I can't even get my man to stop wearing pleated khaki's, let alone lay me. Hello! Anyone reading this! Pleats are out! Out! Out! Quit wearing them!

I know I'm being silly here, but truthfully. life is wonderful for me. Discovering asexuality freed me from my obsessive need to badger my partner. And please, do not prompt me into a who is more sexually needy argument. I have a personal landfill of batteries to show my needs and believe me, not one battery was worn out by my beloved. I know people feel sexually frustrated. Heck, my frustration level is horrendous. I understand. That part of this. It’s the anger, bitterness and resentment I can’t grasp.

This needs to begin at home though. Please do not mislead others into your pain. You are trying to do this. The blurb you posted on this site is different from the one you posted on your site in one very, very crucial area. On your site you included the sentence "This group is a support group for people who are involved with or married to partners who do not believe in the carnal expression of love. " That tells me you have no understanding of what you are speaking of and spreading misconceptions, you intentionally hid that thought process of yours from this group. Why?

The only people I know of who truly believed in not expressing carnal love were the Shakers. As of 1998 there were only 7 members left and I don‘t think any of them were going to reproduce. You are not married to a Shaker, are you?

If your husband were gay, bi, tansgendered, heck even having a vanilla affair, instead of not interested in your “carnal desires“ , you would not be treating him this way in a public forum. Rethink what your doing and what is motivating you.

Honestly. Sexuality is sexuality no matter how extreme or minimal. Belittling your SO because you are incapable of meeting your needs is petty. I am sorry your husband can't love you in a way or frequency that satisfies you. There is no need to open a group for your grievances or to belittle the asexual community.

[Sweetdreamr45]

You don't really know me, I don't really know you. K?

So stop with the judgments and laying names and suppositions on me, and trying to read something into my words. You don't know me at all, and I'm not going to argue with you no matter how you try to get me to. I started a support group - accept it and move on to another conversation...yes, I hate khaki's too!

That said, I hope you have a great day! Sincerely, Robin

[feef]

"Victim" is a big word to use for somebody being denyed sex. I can see why Whistler feels strongly about it as well, because it antagonizes asexuality as a whole.

I don't want to speculate about your relationship with your husband, but if he made it clear he wasn't intrested in sex, and you said "yes, that's okay, I love you anyways" and entered in a relationship with him, I would say you haven't been victimized. Even if the situation has changed where it's not so okay, because you feel depressed, neglected, frustrated, you should talk about it with him.

If his lack of intrest was unclear when you entered the relationship, he could be to be blame for not bringing it up, or you could be blamed for not asking him about it, but really, instead of pointing fingers at others or other's sexuality, talking and comprimising and figuring things out would be alot more productive.

I'm sorry if you find any of this offensive, it just makes me unhappy to see a sexual in a frustrating relationship with an asexual, as it makes me restless about any relationships with sexuals I might have.

[Derp]

These are the real victims of asexuals: (click!)

Hehe.. sorry, couldn't resist...

[Sweetdreamr45]

This forum is completely ignoring the fact that there are Sexual people out there who have always felt that something was wrong with them because of their intimate involvement and/or marriage with an Asexual. Many have lost their self confidence and self-esteem. Many are depressed, lonely and feel trapped. Many feel like there is no "life" in their marriage and they are just merely floating along and existing. Most of them feel deprived, and completely undesirable to the opposite sex. They miss the fun and playfulness that takes place in a Sexual/Sexual relationship. Some feel they were actually "sucked in" or lied to and betrayed in relationships with Asexuals who represented themselves diferently in the beginning, then just stopped having sex with them. These people need a place to go to just say "I'm horny and it sucks that I'm married to an Asexual". They can express themselves withou fear of retribution, and be themselves, and let it all out, which will be very liberating and emotionally healing for them. "Victims" are usually people who are wounded in some way, not necessarily intentionally, but there are wounds nonetheless; thus the word "victimized" If this makes Asexuality sound negative, I don't mean it to--I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. I'm saying to you, you're very uncompassionate, narrow-minded and blind if you feel that deep down in a some man or woman's gut, she isn't hurt in some way by her man not wanting her sexually. It's different if the man cannot HAVE sex because of impotence - he can take a pill. Also remember that most Asexuals don't even want to give pleasure to their sexual partners in ANY way whatsoever, to at least satisfy their women and let them continue to experience their sexuality. HOWEVER, there are sexual women who are quite happy with sexless lives. Good for you. I'm not one of them. My support group is not for you. Mine is for those who are tired of pretending it doesn't affect them in some way; who want to kick back and even find some humor to the situation. Everybody's story is different, yet the common thread is "no sex life". It's normal to want sex with the man you love. It's normal to get aroused and excited sexually, and because it's normal, it's okay to talk about it. I'm not a psychiatrist, I don't have all the answers, but I can give support and validate that's it's okay to feel sexy about themselves again, and that there are others who feel the same way too. The support group will be a place where they can be themselves, and just let their hair down. My marriage is good, my husband loves me, I love him, but dangit....sometimes I want to go out and get laid (not that I will). Can you see a Sexual admitting that here on this forum? Ha Ha...I don't think so. Thus...a support group for those Sexuals who feel their sexuality very strongly, and feel strongly deprived of it. I'll also send through funnies, sexy music, things of romance, things that are erotic (not porn), for men and women who are sexuals and WANT to re-connect with their sexuality again while remaining in an Asexual/Sexual relationship. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Robin My Support Group Link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sexualswithasexuals

P.S. It was my mistake to put this through as a new topic...meant it as a reply on this one.

[eidolon]

I think it's a great idea to make a group where sexuals can get together and talk about their experiences. When I came out to my boyfriend, I know that he expressed some sadness about not being able to have sex with me (he'd been thinking/hoping that this was temporary) and some lingering conditioned feelings about me not finding him attractive, etc. while at the same time expressing his happiness that I'd realized something good about myself. Those feelings make sense, and while I don't think they should be clung to or used against an asexual partner, they are valid and deserve attention like any other sadness a person can feel.

However, I do think that the choice of the word "victim" is an unfortunate one. "A person who suffers from some adverse circumstance" is just one of the definitions of the word, and it is not the most common usage today (at least from my experience in America). Typically, when one is labelled as a victim, it is implied that they have been harmed by a voluntary (and often malevolent) act. When you use the word victim, then, it does carry a connotation of purposeful harm by your asexual husband (although I believe you when you say that you did not intend it that way), and I can understand why there are those here who find that offensive. I recommend replacing "victim" with something like "people who are having difficulty or feeling pain."

At any rate, I applaud you for reaching out to the sexuals at AVEN. ^_^

[KAGU143]

Sweetdreamer,

I think you are making a mistake when you generalize by saying "this forum" is either ignoring or endorsing ANYTHING, since we are seldom in total agreement on any given subject. Disregarding that for the moment, though ... I DO happen to agree with Feef and eidolon in this instance. In your case, victim is the wrong word.

A true victim is one who is afflicted by something unpleasant, malicious or otherwise, and who has no available options to escape it. Earthquakes, disease epidemics and violent crimes all leave victims.

You are in an unfortunate position, being a member of the powerful, well-represented, socially sanctioned sexual MAJORITY, and trying to present yourself as a victim because your chosen mate is failing to yield to your sexual harrasment.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't INTEND for your sexal demands to be interpreted as harrassment, but I can assure you that that is exactly how they FEEL to an asexual person.

To an asexual, sex and love are two totally different things and it is very hurtful to have one's feelings and expressions of love summarily dismissed because they aren't "proven" by copulation on demand.

Statistically speaking you are most likely to be straight, so hopefully this analogy will make sense.

How would you feel if a woman that you had been very close friends with for many years suddenly confided to you that she felt you didn't like her since you wouldn't have sex with her? What if she kept dropping hints and wouldn't stop? What could you do or what pill could you take to change your orientation in order to make yourself WANT to accomodate her wishes, because (in this imaginary world) all of society is telling you that you SHOULD, whether you want to or not? (To an asexual, EVERYBODY is the *wrong* gender. It's not "all good", it's all bad!)

I believe you when you say that you see sexual relations as fun and playful, but do you think that would still be true if you could truly UNDERSTAND how your partner saw it only as a distasteful duty to be performed? Where's the fun in that?

Moving on ...

I think you have a valid point when it comes to mixed marriages that take place before the sexual/asexual issue is brought up (or realized). My honest feeling is that such marriages should be terminated if a happy compromise can't be reached fairly quickly. (There are other threads that suggest possible compromises, and I think they should at least be considered.) It is also very possible for an asexual to be unaware of their situation, by the way, particularly if they have been brought up in a very religious household of the sort that preaches that sexual desire outside of marriage is wrong, but that it will magically appear on the wedding night if one just goes through the motions. When it doesn't happen that way, I think it is perfectly fair to say that there are TWO "victims" in the relationship.

I have no problem with yet another yahoo group, even if it IS geared toward connecting people whose common bond is that they openly admit to being sexually frustrated and unhappy in their marriages (quote: "I'm horny and it sucks that I'm married to an asexual"), and wanting to *reconnect* with their lost sexuality via music, mild erotica, jokes, and etc.

I can't help thinking where all of that might eventually lead, but then I'm only asexual, not prude or naive about human nature.

-Greybird

[skiter]

Where's the compassion!!

For sure, there are real consequences to mixed marriages.

The woman feels pain. She's trying to work it out. Show some sympathy!

[Goonie]

I see this discussion as more of a technical issue over diction that over lack of sympathy.

THere is a big difference there.

[prairie girl]

I agree that everyone should show a little more compassion towards Sweetdreamer --- stop getting hung up on the word "victim".

For some sexuals married to asexuals this is a needed forum. I really felt alone and thought I was the only person in the world in this situation.

I have been married for 15 years to someone who I can only assume is an asexual. Not realizing that there even was such an orientation, I have felt frustrated, puzzled, hurt, lonely, rejected and depressed ... we have had sex seven times in our marriage and it is clear that the times we did have sex were for procreation only (resulting in two great kids). The last time was 1997. Other than those times, when we went to bed each night he had a "stomachache" or "headache". He sleeps as far away from me as possible in our bed and his degree of asexuality also means no hugs, no kisses, no cuddles. For years I wondered what I'd done wrong --- and I've tried to bring up the topic 1,000 times with no results. I've asked him if he doesn't love me, did childbirth put him off, did he lose his desire for me, is he gay ... he didn't want to talk about it. I'm starting to realize that he himself doesn't understand his feelings.

I don't think of myself as a victim, but I do feel cheated out of something that I think is an important part of an intimate relationship. It's hard to think about leaving - due to finances, two kids, family pressures. To outsiders he seems like a great guy (and he is a very nice decent person and good dad) but I want more and need more.

I guess in my case, the fact that he won't talk about it (and I can see that it would be very difficult) makes me feel angry.

[skiter]

A technical issue - over diction??

Suppose you go to the emergency room with a broken arm, and say to the doctor "I need help, I'm the victim of a skiing accident".

Will the doctor say "I'd like to help, but first let's correct your language. Your use of the word victim is incorrect. You were after all engaged in a risky activity of your own free will...."

Forget about the words, open your heart and see that the woman is struggling to find her way through a difficult situation.

[Goonie]

I don't see at any point where someone was saying they weren't sympathetic.

All I was saying is they were picking at a grammar issue and explaining why.

And though you give a valid example, it doesn't quite fit for this becuase there isn't an emergency. It is a message board. People were only trying to explain why a different word than victim should be used.

[KAGU143]

If I came across as unsympathetic toward sexuals I appologize, because that wasn't my intention at all.

I just don't like the term "victim" because it implies that a person is without choices in a relationship. In human relationships it also requires the presence of a perpetrator.

No perpetrator = no victim.

That's why I think there are, more accurately and MUCH more commonly, TWO injured parties in a sexual/asexual relationship. Neither partner is a perpetrator, so they cancel each other out. Nobody is therefore a victim (unless perhaps domestic violence is also part of the equasion.) Instead, there are two people who have an unforeseen problem that they need to deal with together, ideally through communication, mutual love and respect, cooperation, and, hopefully, some form of compromise that they can both be comfortable with.

-Greybird

[Sweetdreamr45]

Thank you for replying to my posts, this is a wonderful, articulate group of sincere, educated, caring people who sincerely want to do right by each other. I want to share with you an example of one of my discussions in the support group which is to address the feelings of depression that so many sexuals feel in their relationship to their asexual partners. I hope you'll agree that the following information would indeed be helpful to sexuals as one of the possible explanations of that negative emotion called "Depression":

"Depression is a very common problem that faces Sexuals with Asexuals. One of the reasons is because a very vital part of our life was taken away from us. Sex can be rejuvinating, and releases chemicals in the brain that regular exercise would. They're called "endorphins". Sex and/or orgasms cause a release of endorphins into one's cerebral-spinal fluid and endorphins are also somewhat responsible for the emotion of happiness, etc., therefore when it is taken away from someone who was previously sexually active, it can certainly lead to changes of mood and clinical depression. Endorphens have a similar chemical structure to morphine and also are thought to be involved in controlling the body's response to stress, therefore, a lack of them can make stress more difficult to deal with also. Here's more of what you'll find on Sex & Endorphens:

Many people are vaguely aware that the blissful feelings one experiences after sex may be endorphin related.

Q. What about endorphins and sex?

A. The blissful feeling one often experiences after making love is due to the body's production of endorphins: in fact, endorphin production can increase 200% from the beginning to the end of sexual activity. Recent studies, beginning with those of Candace Pert, Ph.D. of Johns Hopkins University, have documented the connection between orgasm and endorphins, although ongoing physical contact, and not just sex alone, also helps produce endorphins, along with the hormone oxytocin. Together, they are like natural opiates and help stabilize a relationship between a loving couple by inducing what famed obstetrician Michel Odent, of London's Primal Health Research Center (whose book, The Scientification of Love, was published in England in 1999 and available through www.amazon.co.uk), calls "a druglike dependency." Although there are many reasons why two people choose to maintain a close and loving relationship, endorphins may be a factor.

Q: Is there a connection between good sex, endorphins and staying young?

A: Such a connection may indeed exist. In a 10-year study involving 3500 people, Dr. David Weeks, a neuropsychologist at the Royal Edinburgh Hospital and author of Secrets of the Super Young (Berkley, 1999) found that men and women who have sex four to five times a week look more than 10 years younger than the average person, who has sex twice a week. Dr. Weeks believes that the pleasure derived from sex was a crucial factor in preserving youth. "It makes us happy and produces chemicals [endorphins and oxytocin] telling us so."

Before I became involved with my husband who is Asexual, I was having sex and orgasms on a very regular basis, in fact, almost every night. I left the man because he had become physically abusive. When I met my husband I found myself having less and less sex until there was nothing at all. My body was so thrown off that it kicked into menopause early. I was very stumped as to why I was almost happier with an abusive relationship than in my "safe" relationship. Obviously, the endorphins had created an almost "addictive" relationship, because my body was being flooded with endorphines all the time which heightened my level of pleasure and happiness. As Sexuals who feel "deprived" of sex, we need to replace the ways we obtained our endorphine releases through lots of exercise, as well as self-stimulation (or stimulation from our mates), so we experience orgasm and a release of those healthy, uplifting endorphins on a regular basis."

Purposeful harm is not the intended meaning of the word "victimized" which I chose to use in introducing the support group, but instead, I'm talking about the type of harm which comes about "as a result of" something outside one's control, as a by-product of the relationship, such as depression, frustration, etc. I know there is not an Asexual anywhere that would intentionally or knowingly produce harm to their partner or anyone. However, there are sometimes explanations which Sexuals can relate to and think, "Yes, that's exactly why I might feel this way. I love my husband/or wife, and need to exert myself and exercise more regularly to release my endorphins which will rid me of so much depression and frustration". It is also helpful for the Asexual to know that endorphens released during sex, is very addictive for Sexuals (comparing the endorphens to morphine), and an addiction is very difficult to break, particularly if you can share your sexual euphoria with the one you love. Just as the Sexuals must make a special effort to exercise more to combat these negative feelings, an Asexual may want to make a special effort to recognize how and why sex holds such a prominent position in their Sexual's lives. There may be a biochemical reason why Asexuals don't care for sex--maybe their bodies don't release endorphines into their system during sex that Asexuals do. There needs to be more studies done from the scientific community. Until then, there are some very real explanations why depression and frustration can enter into the dynamics of a Sexual/Asexual relationship. I will agree to replace the word "victimized" with another word, if it fits. Please suggest other words you would like me to use in place of it. I am open to all suggestions. Robin

[Nero laughed]

I will agree to replace the word "victimized" with another word, if it fits. Please suggest other words you would like me to use in place of it. I am open to all suggestions. Robin

Why don't you just call it what it is, Frustrated and depressed ?

Sexually frustrated and depressed partners of asexuals support group.

[feef]

On the internet, where words are really the only way you get to talk to people, it's best to choose them wisely, and that's where I was going when I commented on the word "victim".

"injured party" instead of victim? "injured" instead of victimized?

[eidolon]

A technical issue - over diction??

...

Forget about the words, open your heart and see that the woman is struggling to find her way through a difficult situation.

I wasn't trying to be pedantic or excessively PC or ignore anyone's feelings, and it doesn't look like anyone else was either. I have nothing but sympathy and support for the OP's situation and mission. That being said, I also have an interest in ensuring that people are not inadvertently offended when the intent of her group is a good one. As feef noted, words are our biggest means of communicating online, so it's important to minimize any misinterpretations. That's all. :)

Sweetdreamr and others, I wish you all the best with processing and coming to terms with your hurt feelings. I will also refer my boyfriend to your site, because I'm sure he'd appreciate the opportunity to talk with other sexuals in a situation like his own.

[feef]

Oh, go figure.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=26100

If anybody wants to post a new topic about it in the world watch, that's okay with me. He doesnt's say asexual, but, hell, he might as well. Well actually it would have been nice if he did so we could get a few more hits and more people educated so they don't accidently mislead people about their intentions. :( Or lack thereof.

[whistler]

differences: I have no problem with khakis, it's the pleats. :lol:

Things in common: asexual partners, feelings of hopelessness, sadness and grief.

I think we have a lot going together and I'm sorry I caused a problem with my OPINION of your wording.

Once again, text is a very hard medium, read this a couple of times, it's actually an apology. If it's not clear enough, I'll rewrite it straight out. Just ask.

I felt bitterness and anger in your descriptions. In this forum that upset me. I know this particular forum is for us, but it still gave me the knee jerk reaction to protect my asexual SO and his ilk. ( I know, but I've always wanted to use that in context, never had the chance before now. Hello Ilk!!)

I know my life may be easier than others. I am a very strong person, I am financially independent. I do not rely on anyone to support me. I can step out of a relationship at anytime with only emotional damage.

I am a 35 yo professional dating a 59 yo hippie. (believe me that's a fun one) We have been together for 16 years. We have very open discussions daily and both of us normally know where we stand.

I am blessed with a partner who doesn't keep tabs on me and just wants me to be happy.

My relationship is very different than most peoples here.

As far as sex goes in our relationship, it may not matter. The rest of my life is great. I don't know how I would react to this if the above qualities were not present. Most women I know will never be able to reach the level of independence I have. That's a sad thing, based normally on the world outside of them, not their abilities. I know that sounds bad, but most of my female friends rely on thier relationships to live. It's not a bad thing, it's who we are. Sometimes it makes me sad that I can't be like that. It sure puts me in a different ballpark when men find out I don't need them for anything.

I truly wasn't judging your relationship. That is personal and no one will ever know what it is like. It makes me more sad than anything.

I know my SO loves me beyond anything. He separates sex from love. It took me a while, but I understand now that he separates sex from me also.

I don't know what it is like to live without independence, without complete loyalty and without unmitigated love. Most people live without all of that. Even sexual happy couples.

Robin, I am sorry to have gotten so angry with your sadness. I do know it wasn't an attack on me, and I don't know why I perceived it that way.

The only thing I request is that you sit back and look at where you are and where you need to be. I also want you to remember that sexuality is so diverse. From what you say I believe you have a perfect love life. Just trying to figure out the sex life is hard.

I am sorry I put you in a position to have to defend this. Believe me, we're not that far off from each other in our emotions, just the expression of them.

Aurora

[Sweetdreamr45]

Okay, here is what I changed in the description of the Sexual/Asexual Support Group:

"This group is a support group for people who experience sexual frustration, depression, feelings of neglect, loss of self-confidence, undesirability, and so forth due to their Sexual/Asexual relationship".

Also, Aurora (or anybody), do you think the head of such a support group should be a professional who is qualified to give advice on sexual behavior? If so, perhaps I can find such a person. Robin

[Nero laughed]

Okay, here is what I changed in the description of the Sexual/Asexual Support Group:

"This group is a support group for people who experience sexual frustration, depression, feelings of neglect, loss of self-confidence, undesirability, and so forth due to their Sexual/Asexual relationship".

Now that sounds practical and non accusatory while addressing the issues. For me, it would be murder on my heart if I thought my SO was going to a group that helped victims. I would leave you so you wouldn't have to be one anymore. How on earth could you possibly love someone that you thought was making you a victim? I know exactly where your coming from and I think the new name description is a good choice.

Also, Aurora (or anybody), do you think the head of such a support group should be a professional who is qualified to give advice on sexual behavior? If so, perhaps I can find such a person. Robin

I suppose knowledgeable people are always good to speak to, but it depends on the professional's personal bias as to wether it would be helpful. Like you probably wouldn't want Freud addressing your group. And I think you should decide wether it is a support group in a social sense or if it will be an educational / instructive type thing in which case you might need someone to fascilitate. You sound reasonable, why don't you just see how it goes.

[feef]

Yeah, it sounds much better now. :)

As for professional... I would say not neccesary. Robin, you know alot more about your situation than a professional, and I think you'd be alot more able to help people in the same situation. At most you might want somebody who you can ask questions to, but not lead the tribe.

[KAGU143]

Okay, here is what I changed in the description of the Sexual/Asexual Support Group:

"This group is a support group for people who experience sexual frustration, depression, feelings of neglect, loss of self-confidence, undesirability, and so forth due to their Sexual/Asexual relationship".

Also, Aurora (or anybody), do you think the head of such a support group should be a professional who is qualified to give advice on sexual behavior? If so, perhaps I can find such a person. Robin

I like it!

As for having a professional ... it's up to you. There are pros and cons to either choice. Most of them are still rather negative toward asexuals so you may have trouble finding an unbiased one. Also, as your group grows you may find that there are enough different viewpoints and experiences represented that they make a professional unecessary.

I would probably wait and see what happens, while keeping it as an option, if I were in your place.

Your mileage my vary. :)

-Greybird

[MaraKarina]

With all the discussion going on about whether one is a victim or not, I somewhat understand the frustration.

For years I heard excuses of all sorts, most of them something like feel bad, tired, etc., with the - probably intended - result that I would feel compassion and try to help my husband get better, get more rest, etc.

And though, sometimes I became suspicious that he maybe just didn't want, whenever I mentioned it, he denied. When I wanted to discuss with my husband what we could do to solve the problem, his reaction was horrible and he shouted at me, so I rarely ever mentioned it (hadn't mentioned it much, anyway). Many of his reactions also suggested that it was me being too pushy etc, i.e. putting the blame on me.

It was almost 12 years being together, when we had been married, when my husband did mention that I shouldn't expect sex from him any more. And that only because I found the courage to ask yet one more time.

To be honest: yes, I don't feel ok with excuses, denial, shouting at me, only to say, AFTER we were married, that I shouldn't expect sex from him in the future. I feel deceived and I am mad at my husband for doing that. I did suffer a lot from the situation, and still do. And he always knew that. And in spite of that continued to serve me lies.

I would have loved him to be honest with me, at least. Not that it would have been easy. But at least I would have been able to make a conscious decision to stay with him accepting the lack of sex - or whatever other solution we would have found - or we could have become good friends. I have no idea what decision I would have made. But it would have been an honest basis. Now not only do I have to still struggle with the affects the lack of sexual desire by my husband had and continue to have on me. But also cope with the nagging question whether he ever loved me or just used me for whatever.

[Rabger]

Those who join this group are those who have been victimized by this dramatic deprivation to the extent that it causes depression, frustration, feelings of neglect, loss of self-confidence, undesirability, and so forth.

Let me first say that I'm asexual, so we'll just get that out of the way. But then let me say that reading the above sentence felt like a HUGE slap in the face. Victimization?? If you CHOOSE to be in a relationship, and you can CHOOSE to leave it, and you are not being FORCED to do anything against your will, how can that possibly be victimization? I think if ANYONE feels like that within a relationship, they need to get out of it!

Yes, being in an asexual/sexual relationship can add another dimention of issues to a relationship. It can cause bitterness and resentment. And those things need to be addressed, because you can not continue a long term and healthy situation if you let those things just continue to fester. But I think if they've gotten to the point where you think "victimization" and "dramatic deprivation" are actually fitting words, you need the help of a LOT more than a board. Try an open-minded marriage shrink. Even then, though, I admit I don't know you, but your state of mind sounds so "blame the asexual" and like its all your husband's fault and like it was his elaborate plot to do this to you.. I feel sorry for him. In all honesty.

Asexual/sexual relationships do NOT have to be a war. No relationship should! You should both try to understand the other person and work together toward compromises. Don't point fingers or blame. And if either of you can't or won't do this, that relationship will not work. This isn't just an asexual/sexual issue. Sex is an issue in ALL romantic relationships. Even sexuals can have widely varying drives and desires, likes and dislikes. And sometimes they're too different and the people must part ways.

There are a couple examples on this board of the asexual/sexual relationship working. While my ex and I are no longer together, I can assure you that the break up had nothing remotely to do with the asexuality factor, and we had worked that all out in the beginning part of our relationship. She was extremely understanding and actually WANTED to understand and to know to the best of her abilities how I felt. And that really helped the situation. You can't blame and get angry with someone being honest with you simply because of who they are. It's not your partner's fault he's asexual any more than it's your fault for being sexual. Turn it around, he could say the exact same things about you pestering him for sex, harassing him about it, making him feel bad and broken for not wanting it. And would you really want him to say he feels victimized by you?

If you didn't know your partner was asexual in the beginning, I can see how that could cause some confustion, granted. But if you've been together for a long time, a label or not, you would have had time to deal with it. I doubt it was something completely sprung on you at this point. COMMUNICATION is important. And so is compromise. It's not about what he can do for you, its about what you can do for each other. It's about understanding and caring for.

If you were raped, then you'd be a victim. If you were hit or beat, you'd be a victim. If you were being verbally assulted, you'd be a victim. But your partner not being all too fond of sex does not make you a victim. And if you think it does, get out for both your sakes.

[Rabger]

After flipping through some more posts, I see people telling others to stop focusing on the word "victim" and see the point behind it. And I feel that I did. Yes, such a relationship can cause strain and hurt and people need support. I agree. I have no problem with the a new board being created for this. But calling yourselves victims is just going too far. My point was that its not all about you. A relationship has 2 people involved. And saying you are a victim would SERIOUSLY hurt your partner, and why would you want to do that? The word victim also implies her not even trying to understand where her husband is coming from. It's more of a blame-game sort of word. I'm hoping the first post was just pent up frusteration getting the best of her. However, if it's truely how she feels, I feel very sorry for both parties, but especially the asexual partner who's being made to feel just horrible for existing.

If the board will actually be a place of support, great! If its going to turn into a bitter, resentful, anti-asexual board, you need to really think about your motives. The first post came across as rather hateful, whether intended or not.

[Rabger]

To be honest: yes, I don't feel ok with excuses, denial, shouting at me, only to say, AFTER we were married, that I shouldn't expect sex from him in the future. I feel deceived and I am mad at my husband for doing that. I did suffer a lot from the situation, and still do. And he always knew that. And in spite of that continued to serve me lies.

I would have loved him to be honest with me, at least.

I completely understand that. But you have to realize that your husband could have BEEN being honest with you. The term asexual is rather new. He probably didn't know it. He could have very well thought that his desire and drive would change after marriage. He probably felt pretty bad having society pushing sex on him all the time. He probably felt broken, less than a man, and confused.

The excuses, denial, and shouting were probably part of that confusion and feeling bad about himself. Not to say I support that, I think he should have sat down and tried to express himself, even if it was difficult or he didn't really know how. But while you may have been dealing with this for a couple of years, he's probably been dealing with it his whole life. Thinking something is wrong with you, that you are flawed, is hard.

His reaction of anger was really probably feeling scared and confused. I can understand your frusteration, but your husband didn't "do this" to you any more than you did to him. I HIGHLY doubt it was intentional, planned, and known beforehand. He probably wasn't serving you lies. That implies intention.

Sexual partners that find out their partner may be asexual after they are together must realize it is NOT their partner's fault! It was not some sort of misleading plot. It was NOT to hurt or punish you. Your husband probably feels pretty mad about all of this too, you know. Even if there is no sex like he's more comfortable with, if he really loves you he feels bad about not being able to make you happy in this area. And even though I think communication is a huge thing, and maybe he should have tried to address his feelings more, I can also understand why he didn't. Since the concept of asexuality is so new, what would have happened if he told you that he wasn't interested in sex? You probably would have either assumed there was something wrong with you (which you probably did, despite his telling you otherwise) or you would have told him that something was wrong with HIM, and that he needed to see someone to get it "fixed." And that would have just confirmed his worst fears. And so he would either hide within himself and push away from you more, or he would try to seek this help and only to have it not help him at all, and make him feel even worse. Because he can't change his orientation! There is nothing wrong with him!

He may have been so unwilling to compromise because he felt if he did, you'd insist on more. He may have, and probably still does, feel very confused and less of a man. Him not knowing that what he's feeling is okay and normal makes him want to stay away from the subject even more, because he figures you won't understand or even try to, you'll just tell him he needs help.

You have to realize that asexual partners that don't know about asexuality, often feel very alone. And he would need to gain his confidence and find comfort and acceptance in who he is before you two would really be able to sit down and discuss this, possibly finding a compromise. And for that to happen, he needs YOU, the person he loves, to try and support and understand him. Ask him to check out the site, maybe. Don't accuse him of lying to you, plotting against you. Don't point fingers. Don't tell him there is something wrong with him. He is who he is, just like you are. And there's nothing wrong with that for either of you.