AVEN and the Antisexuality Rhetoric

[Member4445]

I recently took a bit of a hiatus from Aven due to feeling disconnected with the community. There was a time when I felt understood and welcomed here - especially on the basis of my identity. I enjoyed the forums, chat was great but there has always been an underlying feel that those who are not Sex Repulsed or Antisexual were not 'Pure Asexuals' and therefore do not deserve the same visibility as those who are.

Go back four years ago, Antisexuality was outright warnable and there were incidences where the community would rise up together and dispell all myths that Pure Asexuals are a concept worthy of having a place on Aven.

Antisexuality had no place on Aven at all!

Sex positive people roamed free and discussed their plights with joy and vigour because they could in a healthy way without having anybody try to invalidate them. They still did not have the same visibility as the stereotypical asexual: The Sex Repulsed (Antisexual) Asexual but Aven was a comfortable place to discuss their identities. They were still accepted as Asexual without having to fight their corner. Until a select few Tumblr people decided to go on a rampage and tell everybody that being Sex Positive means you support rape.

However, recently, this has all changed. I was talking to somebody in chat about how I enjoyed the physical feelings associated with sex and would happily have it. That I don't seek sex out and would never ask for it, I just don't understand how sex=intimacy. It is something I can 100% live without. My identity was invalidated and I was told that I couldn't be Asexual but was instead Greysexual because Asexuals would never willingly have sex. Obviously, I shot this notion down and educated the person. The point is, by the changes in the community on here, I have been made to feel that I cannot identity as Asexual and it has sadly made me question my identity and my place on the Asexuality Movement. For those who were not as comfortable in their identity as I was, I believe that many would have become very confused and decided they aren't Asexual because they enjoy sex.

The actions of Aven itself hasn't helped matters. I've already mentioned the fact that Antisexuality doesn't appear to be warnable anymore. What I haven't mentioned is that the thread outright condemning Antisexuality and the educational resource to try and explain why their attitude is wrong, has now disappeared from the forum it was in (I think it was Q&A). This sends an alarming message to Avenites, new members and those who are using Aven as an educational resource. Not to mention the creation of The Sex Talk subforum where also discussions pertaining to sex are being banished. Sex Positives look like they are being forced out of Aven or at least hidden from visibility. By separating the two, you are saying that Sex Positivity has no place on the rest of the boards.

For those who don't know, you can be Antisexual, Sex Repulsed, Indifferent or Positive. None of these make you sexual or asexual, it is just a way of describing how you view sex. You can still be Sex Repulsed and Sexual or Sex Positive Asexual.

Vocabulary Explained

Antisexuality: You hate everything about the idea of sex. You hate that other people have it and hate the idea of having it yourself.

Sex Repulsed: You are disgusted or afraid of the idea of having sex yourself. You may feel the same way about other people having sex.

Indifferent: You don't feel either way about sex and may have it if you feel like it. You don't need it, you take it or leave it. Not having it doesn't bother you. You don't care that other people are having it either.

Sex Positivity is the concept of enjoying sex and happily partaking in it. You're happy for other people to have it too. In terms of Asexuality, a Sex Positive person may enjoy the thought and idea of sex but not be sexually attracted to the individual they are having sex with. They enjoy the stimuli that comes with sex and sexual contact, but again they are not sexually attracted to the person because they don't experience sexual attraction to anybody. Some Asexuals may be Sex Positive in that they encourage consensual sex between adults but Repulsed when it comes to their own view of sex.

It's a classic case of Action Does Not Equal Orientation. Many people on Aven understand that a gay man may happily have sex with a woman for a range of regions, but are extremely hypocritical in the fact that they don't believe Asexuals can happily have sex for any reason too. Asexual can have sex, for a variety of reasons, be it for reproduction, to compromise with a partner, to experiment or simply because they enjoy it. There needs to be more visibility for Sex Positivity so that Aven can get back to fighting the concept of Antisexuality. Aven was created as a support for Asexuals, not to support and spread Antisexuality, it needs to get back on target.

[Member4445]

*cough* meant to post this in Musi-Rants. Sorry.

[Guest]

Sex positive doesnt actually mean you "ebjoy haveing sex" and it's important that distinction is made because there are a lot of sex positive asexuals who definitely don't enjoy having sex ...Sex positive means you have a positive attitude towards sex and sexuality as a whole and don't mind that other people have sex. I guess the term you are looking for is "sex favourable" or "sex enjoying".. i dont like how people use these terms to say "i love having sex, i can't be happy without sex in my life, but i am asexual because i don't find anyone i have sex with attractive" (this is NOT asexual, it's sexual and it's antisexual to say otherwise because it infers your reasons for desiring sex are somehow better or more special than a sexual persons, believe me appearance is certainly not everything for all sexual people, there are many who care about emotions, personality, or just the sex itself, and couldn't care less about appearance)

So anyway yeah you can be sex positive AND "sex enjoying" but sex positive doesn't mean you enjoy having sex

Sorry for awful typos i typed on my phone and it hates me :c

[Member4445]

I did actually state that in my post. I said it can mean both.

Also, do you have any idea how damaging it can be to use that Antisexual rhetoric? Yes, Asexuals can enjoy sex. Suggesting otherwise invalidates the identity of people who may be at very vulnerable stages of their discovering their sexuality.

Asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction. Nothing more or less.

[Guest]

I would actually love to see asexuality treated more like an orientation around here, generally. Very few gay people are gold star (yes we have our own bullshit terminology for this stuff). I've only met one or two gold stars my whole life, tbh. It's widely accepted in the gay community that sex is done for any number of reasons, including having fun, being social, telling stories, being super drunk, etc.

A related issue I see on AVEN all the time is the idea that if your sexual partner really loved you, they wouldn't ask for sex. Why? I don't see anyone trying to convince gay men to have sexual, romantic relationships with women, or for straight women to have romantic, sexual relationships with gay women... I've never heard "but Jim, if you loved me enough it wouldn't matter that I'm a woman and not a man!" Right?? So why, when it comes to asexuality, are both sides expected to, based on love, completely ignore their orientations?! It would make more sense if the standard reply was "welp, you're asexual, your orientation doesn't match your partner's so it's probs not going to work." I don't know why love is understood to be irrelevant to all orientation mismatches except sexual/ asexual.

[Guest]

I did actually state that in my post. I said it can mean both.

You used the term sex positive synonymously with "i enjoy sex"..sex positive means "i have a healthy attitude towards sex" not "I enjoy sex" ..And i am an extremely sex positive and very vocal member on this site and haven't once felt people don't want me here just for my sex positivity. Yes there are a lot of discussions about why people who *desire partnered sex* would in fact not fall on be asexual (because thats sexual, and sexual people here agree with that) but that's nothing to do with sex positivity. For the most part its anything *other* than sex positivity which issue is often taken with here, which is why sex repulsed asexuals got there own subforum/thread thingie to talk in.

[SweetieBot]

Of course aces can enjoy sex. Sex is a physical sensation that is apparently pleasurable.

I'm sex-repulsed personally so it isn't a thing I would actually want to engage in, but I'm sure if it weren't at least nice so many people wouldn't do it. I'm sorry you've been dealing with people trying to invalidate your identity. I haven't really seen it, but I also haven't been around much lately.

I do think the sex talk area was an attempt to make everyone here on Aven feel comfortable though. Since some people don't like to see talk about sex - especially since this is one of the places a lot of people go to get away from that emphasis in everyday life. It doesn't really bother me, but I know Aces who it would bother and I imagine that move was so that no one would have to worry about being confronted with that in what they saw as essentially a safe space.

[Member4445]

Unless I can't see it, Sex repulsed people don't have their own sub forum, there's only one for Sex talk.

I also explained that one can be sex positive in enjoying sex themselves or in their attitude towards others having it. And that neither of these need to co-occur. I did that for every single description, and used 'may' instead of 'will'.

[Jenibi]

For the most part its anything *other* than sex positivity which issue is often taken with here, which is why sex repulsed asexuals got there own subforum/thread thingie to talk in.

I disagree. I may have only been here for a short amount of time but I have noticed people instantly shutting down those who identify as asexual but wouldn't mind partaking in sex. Instantly they are shoved in the gray-ace or told they must be sexual. People have forgotten the basics of asexuality and confusing it with peoples preferences.

[Tarfeather]

If you feel "unwelcomed" because people here are free to have a differing opinion than your own, then yes please, take the hint and leave. I have no interest in AVEN becoming an echo chamber, thank you very much.

[Guest]

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

[Jenibi]

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

It's actually important that everyone is clear on what it is. Otherwise those who are unsure will never be able to work it out. If you are comfortable with your definition there is no need for you to comment.

[Guest]

I would actually love to see asexuality treated more like an orientation around here, generally. Very few gay people are gold star (yes we have our own bullshit terminology for this stuff). I've only met one or two gold stars my whole life, tbh. It's widely accepted in the gay community that sex is done for any number of reasons, including having fun, being social, telling stories, being super drunk, etc.

A related issue I see on AVEN all the time is the idea that if your sexual partner really loved you, they wouldn't ask for sex. Why? I don't see anyone trying to convince gay men to have sexual, romantic relationships with women, or for straight women to have romantic, sexual relationships with women... I've never heard "but Jim, if you loved me enough it wouldn't matter that I'm a woman and not a man!" Right?? So why, when it comes to asexuality, are both sides expected to, based on love, completely ignore their orientations?! It would make more sense if the standard reply was "welp, you're asexual, your orientation doesn't match your partner's so it's probs not going to work." I don't know why love is understood to be irrelevant to all orientation mismatches except sexual/ asexual.

See, there is "treating asexuality like an orientation" and "totally invalidating many asexual members on this site and invalidating what *sexuality* is" ..If someone says "I desire partnered sex every so often, for my own sexual and emotional pleasure because yeah I'm asexual but you know sometimes i just really need a good fuck. Asexuality is like any other orientation though i mean hey a gay guy can fuck a woman and still be gay so i can love fucking in general and still be ace" ...Well, where does that leave all the people who have no innate desire for partnered sexual contact with anyone, ever? Do they need to go and make up their own orientation because all of a sudden they are a minority in the asexual community?

No. Asexuality isn't an "orientation" in the same way homosexual is because if a gay guy has sex with a woman because he wants it, he's *sexual* ..he's acting on his *innate desire for partnered sex* which is what he has in common with all other sexual people. Asexuls *don't have this* so they aren't just going to be going around banging people because they desire that. Asexuality is not "comparible to homosexuality because it's an orientation" it's "the opposite of sexuality" ie asexuals lack what sexual people have: the innate desire to connect sexually with other people for sexual and/or emotional pleasure.

Sorry for all the typos, on my phone and its really hard to type.

[Guest]

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

It's actually important that everyone is clear on what it is. Otherwise those who are unsure will never be able to work it out. If you are comfortable with your definition there is no need for you to comment.

Awwww, that's adorable. Look at how new you are!!! You have no idea what I'm talking about, no offense. Hang out for a few years and see... this comes up almost daily and it never ends.

Incidentally, Jenibi, I disagree with your definition of asexuality. If we're going to do it, then let's do it. The "sexual attraction" definition is garbage and horrible and just plain wrong.

[Guest]

I would actually love to see asexuality treated more like an orientation around here, generally. Very few gay people are gold star (yes we have our own bullshit terminology for this stuff). I've only met one or two gold stars my whole life, tbh. It's widely accepted in the gay community that sex is done for any number of reasons, including having fun, being social, telling stories, being super drunk, etc.

A related issue I see on AVEN all the time is the idea that if your sexual partner really loved you, they wouldn't ask for sex. Why? I don't see anyone trying to convince gay men to have sexual, romantic relationships with women, or for straight women to have romantic, sexual relationships with women... I've never heard "but Jim, if you loved me enough it wouldn't matter that I'm a woman and not a man!" Right?? So why, when it comes to asexuality, are both sides expected to, based on love, completely ignore their orientations?! It would make more sense if the standard reply was "welp, you're asexual, your orientation doesn't match your partner's so it's probs not going to work." I don't know why love is understood to be irrelevant to all orientation mismatches except sexual/ asexual.

See, there is "treating asexuality like an orientation" and "totally invalidating many asexual members on this site and invalidating what *sexuality* is" ..If someone says "I desire partnered sex every so often, for my own sexual and emotional pleasure because yeah I'm asexual but you know sometimes i just really need a good fuck. Asexuality is like any other orientation though i mean hey a gay guy can fuck a woman and still be gay so i can love fucking in general and still be ace" ...Well, where does that leave all the people who have no innate desire for partnered sexual contact with anyone, ever? Do they need to go and make up their own orientation because all of a sudden they are a minority in the asexual community?

No. Asexuality isn't an "orientation" in the same way homosexual is because if a gay guy has sex with a woman because he wants it, he's *sexual* ..he's acting on his *innate desire for partnered sex* which is what he has in common with all other sexual people. Asexuls *don't have this* so they aren't just going to be going around banging people because they desire that. Asexuality is not "comparible to homosexuality because it's an orientation" it's "the opposite of sexuality" ie asexuals lack what sexual people have: the innate desire to connect sexually with other people for sexual and/or emotional pleasure.

Sorry for all the typos, on my phone and its really hard to type.

You know I agree with you on this point! There's a difference between behavior, like, "I've had lots of sex that I haven't particularly enjoyed and wouldn't choose to do it again", and then there's internal motivations, like "I'm not going to sign up for Tinder or anything, but I do enjoy being in a sexual relationship with my boyfriend." One of those is asexual and one isn't.

[Telecaster68]

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

EVERYBODY MOVE AWAY FROM THE POPCORN. DER POPCORN IST VERBOTEN.

[DeMorgan]

Unless I can't see it, Sex repulsed people don't have their own sub forum, there's only one for Sex talk.

I also explained that one can be sex positive in enjoying sex themselves or in their attitude towards others having it. And that neither of these need to co-occur. I did that for every single description, and used 'may' instead of 'will'.

I assume that sex-repulsed talk would go under sex talk, right?

[Jenibi]

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

It's actually important that everyone is clear on what it is. Otherwise those who are unsure will never be able to work it out. If you are comfortable with your definition there is no need for you to comment.

Awwww, that's adorable. Look at how new you are!!! You have no idea what I'm talking about, no offense. Hang out for a few years and see... this comes up almost daily and it never ends.

Incidentally, Jenibi, I disagree with your definition of asexuality. If we're going to do it, then let's do it. The "sexual attraction" definition is garbage and horrible and just plain wrong.

The condescension shows the clear offense. I have seen you on multiple threads and find you to be a particularly harsh person. You are quick to shut people down and frankly are cruel with how you handle people. I want nothing more to do with you. If there was a ban/ ignore on AVEN you would be on my list.

If you have a better definition it is better to actually say it rather then turn down the one that the site obviously uses.

[Member4445]

The point

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Everyone's heads.

[Guest]

For the most part its anything *other* than sex positivity which issue is often taken with here, which is why sex repulsed asexuals got there own subforum/thread thingie to talk in.

I disagree. I may have only been here for a short amount of time but I have noticed people instantly shutting down those who identify as asexual but wouldn't mind partaking in sex. Instantly they are shoved in the gray-ace or told they must be sexual. People have forgotten the basics of asexuality and confusing it with peoples preferences.

Show me all these threads? I've been here for two years and generally see if anyone is saying "an ace can't enjoy having sex" they are attacked by multuple other members on the site saying they are wrong.... sooo are random individuals not allowed to have an opinion now, even when multiple members on this site vocally disagree with them? Or are there literally threads here where everyone in the thread tells someone "you aren't ace if you enjoy the physical sensations of sex when you have it with your partner because your partner wants sex"??

[Guest]

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

It's actually important that everyone is clear on what it is. Otherwise those who are unsure will never be able to work it out. If you are comfortable with your definition there is no need for you to comment.

Awwww, that's adorable. Look at how new you are!!! You have no idea what I'm talking about, no offense. Hang out for a few years and see... this comes up almost daily and it never ends.

Incidentally, Jenibi, I disagree with your definition of asexuality. If we're going to do it, then let's do it. The "sexual attraction" definition is garbage and horrible and just plain wrong.

The condescension shows the clear offense. I have seen you on multiple threads and find you to be a particularly harsh person. You are quick to shut people down and frankly are cruel with how you handle people. I want nothing more to do with you. If there was a ban/ ignore on AVEN you would be on my list.

If you have a better definition it is better to actually say it rather then turn down the one that the site obviously uses.

And your snotty first comment wasn't exactly a model of civility either, unless telling me not to comment was just a super helpful tip.

I do have a better definition. You're not the boss of me, though, so I'll let PanFicto give the correct definition and you can go scream at her instead.

EDIT: There's totally a block function!!!

[Member4445]

Can we not fight each other in this thread please?

It's important and I don't want it locked.

Cheers.

[SweetieBot]

The point

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Everyone's heads.

Maybe instead of insulting us you should try explaining it a different way then.

Because I get that it's frustrating if you're making a point and no one is getting it. But, if no one else is understanding your point then insulting them is not going to actually make anyone understand.

[Jenibi]

Yay.... we're going to have the trillionth debate about the definition of asexuality.

It's actually important that everyone is clear on what it is. Otherwise those who are unsure will never be able to work it out. If you are comfortable with your definition there is no need for you to comment.

Awwww, that's adorable. Look at how new you are!!! You have no idea what I'm talking about, no offense. Hang out for a few years and see... this comes up almost daily and it never ends.

Incidentally, Jenibi, I disagree with your definition of asexuality. If we're going to do it, then let's do it. The "sexual attraction" definition is garbage and horrible and just plain wrong.

The condescension shows the clear offense. I have seen you on multiple threads and find you to be a particularly harsh person. You are quick to shut people down and frankly are cruel with how you handle people. I want nothing more to do with you. If there was a ban/ ignore on AVEN you would be on my list.

If you have a better definition it is better to actually say it rather then turn down the one that the site obviously uses.

And your snotty first comment wasn't exactly a model of civility either, unless telling me not to comment was just a super helpful tip.

I do have a better definition. You're not the boss of me, though, so I'll let PanFicto give the correct definition and you can go scream at her instead.

EDIT: There's totally a block function!!!

Then tell me where it is. My "snotty comment" was merely advising you that if weren't interested in a debate over the definition than you don't have to get involved. It was not meant to be anything else.

[Member4445]

Everybody has chosen to argue over the technicalities of a term rather than the fricking post itself.

Which unsurprising is one of the points of the pot in the first place. Asexuals who do enjoy sex are being thrown out in favour of the Antisexuality Rhetoric because Asexuals have to be 'pure'.

[Guest]

Everybody has chosen to argue over the technicalities of a term rather than the fricking post itself.

Which unsurprising is one of the points of the pot in the first place. Asexuals who do enjoy sex are being thrown out in favour of the Antisexuality Rhetoric because Asexuals have to be 'pure'.

Show me, anywhere on AVEN, where someone has said that asexuals have to be pure.

[Jenibi]

does anyone know how to block?

Edit: I've got it. Thank for the help...

[Guest]

no one here is saying asexuals can't enjoy the physical sensations of sex. No one said that! There is a HUGE difference between enjoying the physical sensations (even some rape victims have reported orgasming multiple times during an attack - not comparing sex with an ace to rape im just saying yes it has been scientifically proven that some people can orgasm etc regardless of whether or not they actively desire the sex) and *actively desiring* sex *because* you enjoy it. The first is asexual, the second is sexual.

[Telecaster68]

It does get very, very strange. I spent all together too many posts the other day trying to understand how some asexuals find sex enjoyable without actually enjoying it, which is possible, according to some posters.

[Jenibi]

no one here is saying asexuals can't enjoy the physical sensations of sex. No one said that! There is a HUGE difference between enjoying the physical sensations (even some rape victims have reported orgasming multiple times during an attack - not comparing sex with an ace to rape im just saying yes it has been scientifically proven that some people can orgasm etc regardless of whether or not they actively desire the sex) and *actively desiring* sex *because* you enjoy it. The first is asexual, the second is sexual.

I'm pretty sure that was what the op was saying. they even mention not actively seeking it.