Lord Jade Cross Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 My brain started moving after looking through another recent thread on the importance of sex for sexuals. Im curious, beyond the negative connotations given to it by religious entities and the like, why is there still an integrated idea of "dirty" (like people say "dirty talk" instead of "sexy talk" or something like that) in sex even when people enjoy it (apart from the fluids an such)? Link to post Share on other sites
Confusion 0 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I don't know, but I wish I did. This internalised "dirty" attitude toward sex is probably part of why I'm slightly negative about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Member54880 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I find it odd that at the same time sex is so often seen by society as the greatest expression of love, and that a committed relationship can't be without it, that it's also seen as "dirty", that someone is less "pure" for it (yet someone is seen as a failure if they haven't had it by a certain age?). I've found that especially odd when combined with the idea that sex is supposed to be saved for someone in a committed relationship. By those standards, sex outside of a committed relationship is seen as "dirty", but it's still weird to think people are being told to save something "dirty" for someone they love.The reasoning I've seen among a lot of religious fundamentalists is that they believe sex within marriage is pure, and a gift to be enjoyed, but it's sex outside of marriage that they see as "dirty" and "defiling". I've seen some even say sex outside of marriage defiles not just the person, but also the sanctity of sex itself. Link to post Share on other sites
WinterWanderer Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I personally find the thought of it disgusting and germ-y :p But as for society as a whole, I'm not really sure why we call it dirty, beyond the religious reasons. Maybe because of the physical nature of being so intimate with someone, the interaction of slimy surfaces? (Sorry for maybe being TMI here.) Link to post Share on other sites
.,. Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think dirty is used with a different meaning entirely in this context. I can't say exactly what that meaning is, but it's probably most often just playing on when two or more people "shouldn't be doing it", or when they're perceived to have sex "for the wrong reasons", or that the acts they're doing are particularly "shameful." I'd give examples but I won't :P Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think dirty is used with a different meaning entirely in this context. Yep that exactly!1 Dirty is like, hot, sexy, very naughty.. not um.. germy haha (though yes some people of course say sex is dirty in a bad way but that's sex negative, not ''sexy dirty'') Especially with the talk. Dirty talk means, super sexy, filthy (good filthy!!) it's very hot and arousing aha.. I'd give examples, but.. I'd probably get banned from AVEN ahah I am super into sexy filth, I am a total pervert hah. It's good, not bad! ^_^ why is there still an integrated idea of "dirty" (like people say "dirty talk" instead of "sexy talk" or something like that) in sex even when people enjoy it (apart from the fluids an such)? Lots of people love the fluids! Link to post Share on other sites
PerformativeSurprise Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think this is a really interesting question! I think dirty is used with a different meaning entirely in this context. Yep that exactly!1 Dirty is like, hot, sexy, very naughty.. not um.. germy haha (though yes some people of course say sex is dirty in a bad way but that's sex negative, not ''sexy dirty'') Especially with the talk. Dirty talk means, super sexy, filthy (good filthy!!) it's very hot and arousing aha.. I'd give examples, but.. I'd probably get banned from AVEN ahah I am super into sexy filth, I am a total pervert hah. It's good, not bad! ^_^ While it is certainly true that "dirty" is used non-literally in this context, I still find it an interesting word choice. Words like "filthy," "dirty," and "naughty" which can be used with sexual connotations all have negative connotations in their common usage. Why did these words, which are antonyms of words such as "clean," "pure," and "good," come to have these sexual connotations? I would assume religious attitudes towards sex are the likely cause, where the words are used in their more literal sense when discussing sex, but they were likely re-appropriated and given more positive connotations by those who disagreed with traditional religious views of sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think this is a really interesting question! I think dirty is used with a different meaning entirely in this context. Yep that exactly!1 Dirty is like, hot, sexy, very naughty.. not um.. germy haha (though yes some people of course say sex is dirty in a bad way but that's sex negative, not ''sexy dirty'') Especially with the talk. Dirty talk means, super sexy, filthy (good filthy!!) it's very hot and arousing aha.. I'd give examples, but.. I'd probably get banned from AVEN ahah I am super into sexy filth, I am a total pervert hah. It's good, not bad! ^_^ While it is certainly true that "dirty" is used non-literally in this context, I still find it an interesting word choice. Words like "filthy," "dirty," and "naughty" which can be used with sexual connotations all have negative connotations in their common usage. Why did these words, which are antonyms of words such as "clean," "pure," and "good," come to have these sexual connotations? I would assume religious attitudes towards sex are the likely cause, where the words are used in their more literal sense when discussing sex, but they were likely re-appropriated and given more positive connotations by those who disagreed with traditional religious views of sex. I don't know.. just the idea of doing something ''dirty and naughty and illegal in some countries'' (anal for example) is just, super appealing (for some anyway) haha. Forbidden fruit or something? And many people (even non BDSM folk) find the idea of ''naughty'' and ''punishment for being naughty'' sexy in an adult sexual. I don't know the exact cause of any of it though.. the dirtier the better is about all I'm aware of haha, that's my opinion anyway :p Link to post Share on other sites
Sally Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I don't think it's beyond the religious attitude; I think that still hangs on even when people think they're beyond it. The fundamentalist Christian/Catholic idea is that sex is for procreation, and should not be engaged in except during marriage when children can and should be the product. Enjoyment is not only not the point, it's not even approved of. That's so ingrained in American culture, I doubt if it will ever completely fade away. I think that's why sex is used in commercials/advertisements: because of the remaining religious attitude, sex really gets peoples' attention and humans like to feel like they're being brave by looking at something that "authority" doesn't want them to. Link to post Share on other sites
Tarfeather Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think that's why sex is used in commercials/advertisements: because of the remaining religious attitude, sex really gets peoples' attention and humans like to feel like they're being brave by looking at something that "authority" doesn't want them to. Your daily dose of anti-authority, delivered by yours truly, The Establishment. Oh, the irony. Remember those days when the "rebellious" types would chain themselves to train tracks? Link to post Share on other sites
tkadlubo Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I'm pretty sure the religious background explains most of it. Name sexual pleasure as sinful and your religion will have an infinite stream of sinners feeling the need to come back to you and confess their sins and ask your deities for forgiveness. The religious leaders had thousands of years to embed this idea in our society, and it got deep. Read dr. Darell Ray for elaboration on that thought. Link to post Share on other sites
Autumn Season Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 What about the emotions during and around sex? Maybe people feel "dirty" (could be either/ both positive or/ and negative)? And it's not about physical "dirt"? Link to post Share on other sites
Ficulnean Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I think this religious attitude that everyone else has mentioned has been continued on with the awareness of venereal diseases, but in a rather more covert manner where naughtiness and sex as a treat is also acceptable. Now, its like eating junk-food. Bad for you but good. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 I still don't get my religion's insistence that reading about sex is sinful. To me that seems like adding tradition to scripture....but eh, we've done that on plenty of areas. Like, our scripture plainly says that sex outside of marriage is wrong, but it doesn't say it's bad to think about or read about. (Though porn and stuff like that, I'd have to do more research/study on.) I think Christianity misapplies the definition of lust, too, which is why Christians commonly think masturbation is wrong...I don't believe it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 "Bad for you but good" Except sex isn't bad for you. I think there's a vestigial idea of sin and indulgence somewhere behind the 'dirty' idea, plus the whole bodily fluids thing. It's also just a euphemism for sex that isn't obviously gentle and romantic and soft focus. Link to post Share on other sites
joeymac Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think the power dynamics inherent in a sex act and/or sexual relationship also have something to do with the dirty/forbidden label. So many perfectly healthy, and sanctioned, relationships often experience the phenomenon of role play wherein power is expressed overtly in sexual terms. Cop and 'Criminal' , Teacher and Student , etc. I believe the base , unconscience root power relationship that underlies these fantasies or 'roles' , if you will, are incestuous. Parental or sibling. Sex is 'dirty' because it is an expression of dominance - the earliest dominant relationships one is exposed to are that of parent over child and amounst siblings. Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
Pi(e) Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 When you were little your parent probably told you something like "save bathroom talk for the bathroom" because it was deemed gross or inappropriate, and no one seems to question that. Sex deals with the same parts of the body and stuff, so it fits with what children are taught in regards to other "bathroom talk" being dirty that sex would be too. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Scarlet Spider Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Cuz your pee pee goes inside her pee pee. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think the power dynamics inherent in a sex act and/or sexual relationship also have something to do with the dirty/forbidden label. So many perfectly healthy, and sanctioned, relationships often experience the phenomenon of role play wherein power is expressed overtly in sexual terms. Cop and 'Criminal' , Teacher and Student , etc. I believe the base , unconscience root power relationship that underlies these fantasies or 'roles' , if you will, are incestuous. Parental or sibling. Sex is 'dirty' because it is an expression of dominance - the earliest dominant relationships one is exposed to are that of parent over child and amounst siblings. Just a thought. Interesting. Though I think this would be more "kinky sex" type territory. Or I dunno, I just don't consider sex to be an inherently dominant/submissive thing. I think of it solely as two consenting individuals sharing special intimacy....that's my kink. Yeeeee :D Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think of it solely as two consenting individuals sharing special intimacy....t Sometimes that special intimacy comes out as a consensual dominance/submissive dynamic in the bedroom. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think of it solely as two consenting individuals sharing special intimacy....t Sometimes that special intimacy comes out as a consensual dominance/submissive dynamic in the bedroom. Which is perfectly fine, just not something that appeals to me personally :) (But then being I've never had a relationship maybe I'll change my mind when I have. *shrugs*) Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Induces strong emotions, simply. 1. Esctatic 2. Some people fear sex just like high speeds There is a myth that sex (on its own) is doing harm (?). Obviously, it can if you don't use condoms and the such, but the very idea that sex is harmful is basically a religious/cultural belief resulting from people who don't use reason trying to prevent other people who don't use reason from leaving them STDs and babies. The dynamic is something that occurs naturally, I think. Depends on the people involved and their temperaments. Link to post Share on other sites
Aching Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Sex is also very earthy. Sexual desire is a deep down feeling and yearning. It is not a light and airy feeling. It feels born of mud and guts and beautiful primordial messiness. Frankly, there is something unappealing when I think of clean sex. It feels medical. It feels like a procedure. My two cents worth. Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 What is light and airy? I can't think of any emotion that actually is. And what is clean sex? Link to post Share on other sites
AthenaFay Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I don't think there is a reason that sex is portrayed as dirty beside religious reasons. It's impossible to escape it's infiltration into our culture. Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think Aching meant it isn't clearheaded. Clean sex would be mechanical and clinical, emotionless and uninvolved. Very controlled. Link to post Share on other sites
Aching Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Sorry. I was being quite metaphorical. My mind was picturing something sort of along the lines of some vision of heaven that's all clouds and fluffiness and harps. Of course, I've never wanted to go to a place like that, either. I suppose I was imagining some transcendent, ethereal experience, that is not of the body. Maybe you can get there. I'd love to try. But it certainly starts from a messy place. A place I'm rather fond of. I like my blood and guts and bodily physical existence. While I'm thinking about it, I think the guilt or negative feelings might just be associated with the enjoyment of the physical, sensual world. Religion may have something to do with the negative connotation, but I certainly see nothing wrong with it being dirty. It's gloriously filthy, while I'm thinking about it. As far as clean sex goes, I was just throwing out an antithesis of sex being dirty. I find that when I think of sex as not being filthy, dirty, nasty, that I can't imagine what it would be. It certainly doesn't sound like any kind of sex I'd want to engage in. Link to post Share on other sites
Emery. Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 In my head the "clinical prcedure" is basically... not sex. I think it's a matter of interpretation, but for me sex is more of a mental construct, acting in a certain manner than the actual sequence of movements. It's about what you feel, not what you do. Aaa. So clean sex might actually be extended peaceful, friendly cuddling , without a note of wilderness or excitement. Link to post Share on other sites
Aching Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Hmmm. Interesting. I guess i can see that, the extended, friendly cuddling as clean sex. I have no idea how I might go about removing myself from the situation enough to even begin to get there? But again, that's probably because cuddling is just cuddling for me. It might be great as a part of the larger sexual act, in some sort of tantric way? It gives me great joy and peace after the good, messy stuff. From what I vaguely remember. (Strike that, I remember it very vividly, despite its being largely absent in the present tense.) Link to post Share on other sites
Telecaster68 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 So clean sex might actually be extended peaceful, friendly cuddling , without a note of wilderness or excitement. For me, the lack of wildness and excitement would make it definitely Not Sex. Link to post Share on other sites
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