Asking for sex.

[Lord Jade Cross]

But that doesnt mean they cant enjoy sex.

One last time, as this really doesn't seem to be something anyone else on this thread understands. For those asexuals who do enjoy sex when it happens:

Why do you actively not want to do something you know from experience you'll enjoy, when it's causing no harm, and would bring pleasure to someone you love?

This is not meant as snottily as it sounds. I'm just trying to be as crystal clear as I can.

Wish I had a more concrete experience to share here but I can only do this by mental process. Since Im still logical on even physical matters, I'll wager it.

If we were talking about a romantic based relationship where sex would be beneficiary for the partners sake, I would do as best I could to compromise on said situation. Even though I can enjoy sex, I will not actively seek it because its not something that I have an urge for. It may feel great, it may be enjoyable and I may make my partner happy because Im willing to participate but seeking it is another matter entirely that I cannot say I would do by myself (to surprise my partne, Id be willing to at least act the part) simply because I dont think or feel "I need to bave sex". I can say instead "I want to make my partner happy so I will have sex for them"

Or to use a more sexual based concep, "I just know I dont need sex" but I would still do it if it made my partner happy.

[Telecaster68]

Even though I can enjoy sex, I will not actively seek it because its not something that I have an urge for.

But you'd seek, say, a coffee, or going to a movie, or going out with friends, and they (presumably) don't have any sexual-type urge behind them? Just experience that you like coffee, or a movie, or spending time with your friends.

I don't see the difference (assuming you or whoever actually enjoys the experience of sex).

[Rising Sun]

Why do you necessarily want to seek something you like just because you like it ? Maybe you always have urges after you start liking something, but not everyone does.

[Autumn Season]

That's also my guess: There is a bit of a harm done to the asexual. Maybe not much and nothing serious. And despite everything they still get enjoyment out of the activity. But in the long run it is too stressful/ not worth it to do the activity again. Sex, people and relationships are complicated after all.

This will be another confusing analogy. Ignore it as you see fit:

I hate people calling me on the phone. But I (often) love talking on the phone. And I also don't like calling others.

Sometimes I actively ask people to please not call me. Because it is so stressful.

Sometimes I pick up the phone (make a conscious decision which takes some mental strength) or make a call myself (again, a difficult decision). Sometimes I do it because I know I will enjoy the conversation, once the stressful part is over. Sometimes I do it because I don't want to harm my relationships with my behavior.

When the phone call is over and even after the realization that it was pleasant, the first thought is that for a while now, at least with this particular person, I won't have to talk over the phone anymore. And there is a relief that I don't have to take their call/ phone them anytime soon.

Maybe some aces feel similar about sex. People are complicated and confusing.

[Telecaster68]

Why do you necessarily want to seek something you like just because you like it ?

Um, because you like it?

Autumn - as so often, you make the most sense. It seems a bit like an extreme version of responsive desire.

[Lord Jade Cross]

I was going to answer with something similar to what risin and autumn said. I think they both covered it.

[Rising Sun]

Why do you necessarily want to seek something you like just because you like it ?

Um, because you like it?

It's an automatic response... automatic for you. It's the way you're programmed to respond to some stimuli. But not everyone has the same software.

[Telecaster68]

Well I guess I understand the mechanics of it, but in the nicest possible way, it still seems inexplicable to me that something with no downside and three fairly substantial upsides (physical pleasure, closeness, and partner's pleasure) is too stressful to contemplate...

[Telecaster68]

It's an automatic response... automatic for you. It's the way you're programmed to respond to some stimuli. But not everyone has the same software.

No, it's just human nature. We want to do things we like doing. It's almost a redundancy.

[Rising Sun]

It's because there's nothing psychological with it. Craving is a physiological response. It's the way drug addiction works. It works almost the same way for sex and even food.

Not everyone is programmed to respond the same to addiction.

[Snao Cone]

But that doesnt mean they cant enjoy sex.

One last time, as this really doesn't seem to be something anyone else on this thread understands. For those asexuals who do enjoy sex when it happens:

Why do you actively not want to do something you know from experience you'll enjoy, when it's causing no harm, and would bring pleasure to someone you love?

This is not meant as snottily as it sounds. I'm just trying to be as crystal clear as I can.

I'm not quite one of those asexuals, but a question not applying to me has never stopped me from answering it, so:

Enjoying something doesn't mean the activity itself is enjoyed. It could be the moment that's enjoyed. It could be the feeling that you went out of your way to show appreciation for the person you love. It could be the fact that you're doing something different that's enjoyable, whether you just need a break in your routine or you feel like being daring. You could just enjoy the fact that you did it.

Here's an example (and please forget this in roughly a week from now, for reasons I won't get into): I don't like musicals. It's hard for me to get into them. I find them awkward to watch and they make me uncomfortable, to the point that I space out, or sometimes need to take a break and walk off my discomfort. But if someone I cared about loved musicals and invited me to go see one with them, because they want to spend time with me and they want to see if I will possibly come to like musicals, I might go with them. I might be a good sport. This might put that person in a great mood which sets up a fun energy for the whole excursion, and that makes seeing the musical more tolerable for me, and even fun and funny and a bonding experience. But I might also walk out of there never really wanting to see a musical again at all, even with that person. It would suck the energy out of me if I did it more than that one time. I would say to that person "I'm glad I had that experience with you. It's not my thing, and I'll likely turn down future invites, but I want you to know it has nothing to do with you and just my tastes in general."

I might even have a physiological reaction to the musical, of sorts. Laughter and eyes watering at moving moments aren't always voluntary and don't always reflect how you feel about something on a thinking human level. When people point out that I was in tune with the purposely designed and anticipated reaction to a musical and try to tell me that I love them and therefore should always want to see them, they're...wrong. And irritating. And that could destroy a friendship. If I were in a relationship (hahahaaaaaa) and my partner was asking for sex often, readily equipped with the argument "Well you've liked it before so you'd like it now too!" that would not only be inaccurate, but I would be offended. Even if I loved that partner dearly (hahahahaha *snort*), I still wouldn't take one for the team very often because my limit would easily be met. My limits are more important to me than my partner's needs. Other asexuals might have different limits than me, and thus be up for the task of compromise more or less often than me.

[Sally]

Even though I can enjoy sex, I will not actively seek it because its not something that I have an urge for.

But you'd seek, say, a coffee, or going to a movie, or going out with friends, and they (presumably) don't have any sexual-type urge behind them? Just experience that you like coffee, or a movie, or spending time with your friends.

I don't see the difference (assuming you or whoever actually enjoys the experience of sex).

It's a matter of choice and frequency and sustainability. Even people who like going to movies don't usually choose to see a movie every night. They see a movie when they WANT to see a movie. And that might not be for quite a long time, but it's up to them, not someone else. It's their choice.

The problem with sex, even if you sometimes enjoy it (which I don't, so it's hard to put myself in that situation, but I'm doing so anyway), you will be having it with someone who expects you to keep having it. It isn't once, it isn't several times, it's pretty much as long as that relationship lasts. You are committed to having sex with that person over and over and over, because otherwise they will say, "Hey, you enjoyed it, now what's wrong?".

Maybe you can't see that. But you should be able to.

[Telecaster68]

I get the frequency thing. I'm not quite that stupid.

But the convoluted Clintonian semantics do seem to be mostly about saying 'I enjoy x' when in fact you don't enjoy x. I have no idea why this is necessary.

[Rising Sun]

No, you're confusing enjoyment with craving.

I'm going to give you an example which I'm ready to bet is going to confuse you a lot LOL. (Before I explain it, I'm demisexual)

Suppose my partner desires to have sex with me right now, and I have the choice between sex with him and chocolate (which I love). If I had the choice and chose what I'd enjoy the most, I'd choose the intimate moment with my partner.

Suppose that my partner continued loving me just as much but didn't have any more desire for me, and he doesn't wish to feel sexual desire anyway and he's happy that way. Suppose also that supermarkets stop selling chocolate. You know what I'd miss ? Chocolate. Although not technically asexual, I could happily live a completely sexless life, but don't take my sweet drug !

Yes, sometimes what you crave isn't what you enjoy the most.

[Lord Jade Cross]

Like the candy analogy I mentioned before :3 Im with you there. No chocolate and I would go "Noooooooooooooooo"

[nanogretchen4]

Who is the specific person who is both saying that they "really enjoy" sex and also saying that they don't want to have sex?

[Snao Cone]

I get the frequency thing. I'm not quite that stupid.

But the convoluted Clintonian semantics do seem to be mostly about saying 'I enjoy x' when in fact you don't enjoy x. I have no idea why this is necessary.

It hurts feelings to not say "I enjoy x" even when what you mean is "I can tolerate x depending on my mood, and since you love x so much it makes what I would only tolerate feel good for me. Sometimes." People want their partners to feign interest in what they do. It's why there are so many mediocre comedians with successful careers.

[Lord Jade Cross]

Im certain that this may have already been done, but I'll throw the idea out there anyways just in case. Since you mention your wife to be asexual, have you asked her directly how she has felt the times in which she does participate? Have you seen how she behaves?

[Guest]

Hmm. I have things I enjoy, but I don't seek out. Like, mini golf I enjoy, but I only do it when someone else suggests it. It's just not as much fun as other things I could decide to do, even though it's fun. However, I will do it if someone else wants to, cause hey why not, it's fun. So, that's not exactly the "I won't do it even if my partner finds it important"... but I guess with sex it could be the vulnerability and expectations of the partner that could be making it stressful, even though the activity of sex itself is fun?

[Stranger]

But that doesnt mean they cant enjoy sex.

One last time, as this really doesn't seem to be something anyone else on this thread understands. For those asexuals who do enjoy sex when it happens:

Why do you actively not want to do something you know from experience you'll enjoy, when it's causing no harm, and would bring pleasure to someone you love?

This is not meant as snottily as it sounds. I'm just trying to be as crystal clear as I can.

Why would I actively not want to do something I know from experience that I’ll enjoy? Because I have a love/hate relationship with it. For me the best example is running. I know when I get past mile 2, I will really enjoy my run. I know I’ll feel better the rest of the day. I know that I can enjoy a piece of cake without worrying about my waistline. But I also know that that first mile may not be that enjoyable (sometime I’m surprised, but not often). And there’s the whole awkwardness of doing something I haven’t done in a while, the twinges from the knees, the muscles that haven’t had to move like this in a while. Even when I’m running daily, there is still my various psychological hang ups - self consciousness about how white my legs are, how slowly I’m running, the fact that I’m wearing running shorts from the early 90’s… So though I love running, it's pretty unusual for me to decide all by myself that I’m going out for a run. It happens occasionally, but not often.

I see this as being similar situation to a very favorable chemical reaction that happens to have a high activation energy - without a catalyst nothing happens, in spite of the high potential of the reaction.

My wife actually enjoys running, and on occasion she provides me enough activation energy to get out my running shoes. But she’s also OK running on her own, and knows that I have this whole love/hate thing with running, so she doesn’t bother me too often. I don’t know how similar her experience with sex is to this, but she often remarks afterward that “once she get’s going” she enjoys it. I wonder if attraction actually provides that “activation energy” in sexuals that might get them past any reservations about partner, location, timing, performance anxiety, or other things.

My other love/hate relationship is with writing. I hate writing, but love having written. Probably the chief reason I post so seldomly.

[Lady Norgard]

But that doesnt mean they cant enjoy sex.

One last time, as this really doesn't seem to be something anyone else on this thread understands. For those asexuals who do enjoy sex when it happens:

Why do you actively not want to do something you know from experience you'll enjoy, when it's causing no harm, and would bring pleasure to someone you love?

This is not meant as snottily as it sounds. I'm just trying to be as crystal clear as I can.

I think it's more of a mood thing. For example I love playing games, but I'm not always in the mood to play games, so if someone asks me to play with them, and I'm not in the mood I'll say no even though I'd enjoy it. Same with anything, I love coffee, tea, cake, ice cream, Nandos, films, books and hanging out with friends. But if I'm not in the mood, the fact that I like those things means nothing.

Asexuals are never 'in the mood' so they say no to something they like.

[Sally]

I'll again introduce the idea -- actually, the fact -- that when asexuals who do sometimes enjoy sex still have trouble with having it, it's probably because they don't want to be bugged to have it frequently, which of course sexuals want. I like eating cheesecake, but I don't actually "want" it, and if someone shoved it in front of me every couple of days, I'd probably stop liking it (and be very irritated with the person shoving it at me). There's no drive within me to eat cheesecake. It's fairly obvious to me, at least, that there's a drive within sexuals to have sex.

[Philip027]

I like eating cheesecake, but I don't actually "want" it, and if someone shoved it in front of me every couple of days, I'd probably stop liking it (and be very irritated with the person shoving it at me). There's no drive within me to eat cheesecake.

I love how this place keeps falling back to food analogies.

But seriously, that's probably a good one.

[Lord Jade Cross]

I told you guys, candy XD A little of it is sweet and enjoyable, too much of it and you'll become sick of it and by it.

[Corretto]

IMO Analogies are topic-eroders of the !st degree.

Whether they be cafes, candies, or seasons of the year, they're a cop-out. Unless one sticks in a personally sensible argument to assist my understanding of the author's perspective then I begin to choke on the OP, and move on from a topic I may have been interested in.

[Guest]

Do you feel that this is uncomfortable like you're bothering them for your needs even if they like it? If so, why do you think that is?

One of the hardest parts of asexuality for me to get my head round is that apparently some asexuals like sex but don't want to have sex unless asked. I don't understand how this works. If you like something, why wouldn't you want to do it? It's like saying you like coffee, but never wanting to drink any. I'd interpret that as not actually liking coffee, just not hating it.

So there's a residual feeling that however much asexuals say they like sex, actually they don't, because if they did, they'd initiate.

There's also the element of being desired as part of sex itself - it's not just the physical act. So even if an asexual kinda sorta enjoys the physical aspect, they don't, and never will, desire you sexually, and for a lot of sexuals (me included) that's 50% of the pleasure gone straight away.

I think the thing here is the way asexual and sexual people express desire. For you as a sexual person you feel that initiating sex means your partner desires you and for you thats an important part of sex but an asexual person isn't saying they don't desire you, they may feel that they express their desire in other ways. So the best thing to do would be to talk to your asexual partner and and tell them how important it is to you when they initiate sex and that it makes the sex that much more enjoyable and then they can talk about all the other ways they might express their desire for you. And you might say something like I understand that we express desire differently and if you initiate sex once in awhile I'll initiate it the rest of the time and try to keep in mind you have other ways you might express desire (you try to compromise with them).

And since an asexual person may express desire differently they can still like the physical part of it.

[Lord Jade Cross]

IMO Analogies are topic-eroders of the !st degree.

Whether they be cafes, candies, or seasons of the year, they're a cop-out. Unless one sticks in a personally sensible argument to assist my understanding of the author's perspective then I begin to choke on the OP, and move on from a topic I may have been interested in.

The problem with that is simply that it cannot be done because everyone experiences things to a different degree. Asexuals and sexuals alike may talk about the same thing and have totally different experiences or ways of perciving. Analogies are basically just a way to try to explain something that is otherwise alien in concept to a person.

[Avistew]

I totally understand how you can enjoy something and not pursue it. Even if sex feels good, many things feel good. Maybe the ace has a libido and masturbates, and that feels good too. Then the issue becomes, am I willing to go to the extra trouble of having sex rather than masturbate, knowing I may enjoy it more, but I may enjoy it less, that I might get bored, that there is someone else involved and we may hurt each other somehow or go through awkward repositioning or whatever, that whatever they do, they won't know exactly how I want to be touched right now and it's not easy to communicate (similar to wanting an itch scratch, it's easier to scratch it and difficult to explain exactly how and where you want to be scratched, and it changes)?

Or.... would I rather just go to sleep because I'm tired, or masturbate because this way I don't have to deal with any of that, or watch a show because the new episode of my favorite show just came out, or play a game because I feel like it...

Bottom line is, something can be enjoyable without being something you'll pursue on your own, especially if it involves a bunch of things going right. I may go to a party if I'm invited because I enjoy parties, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to go through the trouble of organising one.

[joeymac]

This has been , by far , the most helpful thread I've really examined. Thank you guys.

It seems to me that there are many variances on asexuality. Perhaps , I should note that I have a close friend , a Poly Sci prof - a progressive liberal, that believes asexuality to be a personality disorder , not an orientation. I cant say that I've found , or believe, that. I've always believed that most people that dont agree with me are crazy, and I'm good with that! LOL!

That said ; my new understanding or enlightenment is that my asexual friend may actually feel, or know, that sex and/or sexual relationships can be satisfying, healthy , pleasurable , and still not desire them. I had always wondered why I sometimes find my friend looking at me in what is typically considered a longing or sexually inviting way when I've always honored her request for no romantic or sexual invitations ( Although she does loves flowers to celebrate or comfort. Which is so neat for me.). Or often, why , in the middle of a conversation she will cover her torso with a sofa pillow , when I have diligently maintained eye contact (I'm an old soldier, very disapplined). The funny part I explained to her is that it is the position she lounges in that would make her appealing. Hahaha, she needs a blanket -not a pillow! And she found that advice complimentary!

It is all very fascinating. Again , that you for your time everyone.

[AthenaFay]

I would feel like I was bothering them, exactly because they're asexual and I'm sexual, so regardless of any roundabouts with other little or sub terminologies inside those definitions, the difference is still there. And, this is a position I have been in before, and I wouldn't want to be in ever again if I can avoid it. It was intensely painful because regardless of their "okay" to it, their asexuality was still asexuality, and my sexuality is much different; I am probably as close as you can get to hypersexual without it being considered a dysfunction. That extent of a difference in orientation would have made it impossible for me to enjoy the sex at all. - It was an "I'm asexual but eh.. if sex pleases you, then I could maybe enjoy it in that sense..." situation that I just couldn't get myself into at all. I am someone who ultimately desires as close to mutual feeling as possible in terms of enjoyment and passion for sex. Being with someone who never initiates sex, or doesn't care enough about the act to ask for sex would make me feel far too much like a nagging nuisance, pest, or a beggar. I like sex most when it comes naturally to both parties, when say, we're kissing passionately and touching one another, and holding each other hard and close, groping and such, and the sex just naturally follows as though no one really even needs to outright ask because we are both so comfortable and in tune with each other that we both want it to happen.