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Question for sexuals: When do you 'expect' sex?


SquidKen

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I wasn't sure quite how to word the title, but what I'm wondering is when during a relationship you feel ready to have sex with them. With my first relationship it was a few months before it became relevant, and over the summer the guy I had a thing for was ready the first time we hung out outside of work. I'm sure a lot of the answer will be some form of "when both parties are ready" so if that's the case, when are you ready, and why do you think that is? If for you not having sex is a deal breaker, when does it become an issue?

I'm asexual, so any experience with this in my own life will be skewed, since no matter what signals they give or how they feel, it won't happen.

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Hey Squid. I'm a newbie here so I just have some selfish questions for you. When you say "had a thing for" what does that mean? Did this ever include intimate thoughts? Were you ever physically aroused thinking of him? For that matter have you ever been physically aroused? I'm completely lacking the physical response but there are some thoughts I have about males that confuse me. Never about intercourse but other things that some consider sex/sexual. Just my humble opinion but it sounds like you practice abstinence but are still open to pleasing a partner. In any case, cheers!!

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Hey Squid. I'm a newbie here so I just have some selfish questions for you. When you say "had a thing for" what does that mean? Did this ever include intimate thoughts? Were you ever physically aroused thinking of him? For that matter have you ever been physically aroused? I'm completely lacking the physical response but there are some thoughts I have about males that confuse me. Never about intercourse but other things that some consider sex/sexual. Just my humble opinion but it sounds like you practice abstinence but are still open to pleasing a partner. In any case, cheers!!

Hey I'm always good with questions. Typically my form of "feeling attracted" is closer to just really wanting to be close to them, but not really in a sexual way. When I thought of him I smiled and wanted to curl up next to him and cook him food. I wanted to hold his hand, I was happy just knowing he was clocked on (we're co-workers). I craved physical closeness, but more of just wanting to cuddle and kiss. It was actually the first time I liked anyone, and it was weird to me and a friend had to talk me through it. I liked the guy I dated before, but not for a couple months first. I never got aroused thinking of him, but I felt a bit different towards him. I'm still not sure if it's okay to say I was physically attracted to him because it wasn't a sexual attraction, but I liked how he looked.

It's going to be a bit of TMI here to answer the part about whether or not I've ever been aroused. I've never had sex, and I don't really want to. With one guy I dated we would kiss and he'd touch me, but I didn't really care for it. I broke down a lot trying to actually do anything for him. I'm still a virgin, happily, but he couldn't please me and I could never please myself. With the guy I had a thing for, we made out on his bed, and I liked that. I like kissing, making out, but that's as far as it goes for me. I didn't desire sex with him, and I stopped when it started heading that way. He was okay with it and apologized for assuming he was going to get laid just because he knew I liked him. I don't desire sex with anyone, and I don't really get aroused, but there are some people I think look better.

In case you skipped because of the TMI, I don't really get aroused, and don't desire sex, but I like kissing.

If you wanna ask anything else, go ahead, I like talking to people and I don't mind questions at all.

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Well, I'm not sexual so I can't really answer this question from a personal perspective, but I do know that the average amount of times a couple has sex is between one to two times a week (I think usually once? I can't remember). If you're like me then that makes you want to go hide under a blanket or something, but try not to worry too much. A decent partner will respect your boundaries and, as you already know, all of this is just figuring out how better to compromise, anyway. :)

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Wow Squid I know exactly what you are saying. I wish there was a medium between aesthetic attraction and sexual (physical) attraction. I do find certain types of guys attractive and I enjoy being intimate (touching, kissing, sometimes even more but never coitus). That said I have no desire for any kind of committed partner at all. Sometimes when I am with someone I am thinking to myself "I don't even know why I'm here". "Why am I doing this"? So if I get rich before I die I will probably take all this to a shrink but for now just knowing you and other guys out there might share my oddities and perhaps I'm not broken is truly freeing. ^_^

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Jturpin, when I think about it, I just want the physical closeness more than an actual relationship. If the guy I mentioned wanted to go do whatever, sleep with whoever, but still wanted to curl up with me and take a nap, awesome. I'd be all for that. I felt broken for the longest time, I still kind of do, but I like this site because it means I'm not alone.

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Well, I'm not sexual so I can't really answer this question from a personal perspective, but I do know that the average amount of times a couple has sex is between one to two times a week (I think usually once? I can't remember). If you're like me then that makes you want to go hide under a blanket or something, but try not to worry too much. A decent partner will respect your boundaries and, as you already know, all of this is just figuring out how better to compromise, anyway. :)

A decent partner may respect your boundaries but they will likely not be happy about it, and that means you will not be happy either.

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I wasn't sure quite how to word the title, but what I'm wondering is when during a relationship you feel ready to have sex with them. With my first relationship it was a few months before it became relevant, and over the summer the guy I had a thing for was ready the first time we hung out outside of work. I'm sure a lot of the answer will be some form of "when both parties are ready" so if that's the case, when are you ready, and why do you think that is? If for you not having sex is a deal breaker, when does it become an issue?

I'm asexual, so any experience with this in my own life will be skewed, since no matter what signals they give or how they feel, it won't happen.

This is a tough question, I'd say after a few weeks/months of dating, depending on if I knew them before we started dating (compared to meeting someone online or at a mixer).

If I've agreed to date someone exclusively I'd "assume" we'd be having sex sometime in the near future. Again this is tough because, as a heterosexual woman, when to have sex is generally up to me. In order to act on my sexual attraction I need to feel safe- know that I won't be hacked into little pieces or filmed. After that, it depends on how attracted I am to him.

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Well, I'm not sexual so I can't really answer this question from a personal perspective, but I do know that the average amount of times a couple has sex is between one to two times a week (I think usually once? I can't remember). If you're like me then that makes you want to go hide under a blanket or something, but try not to worry too much. A decent partner will respect your boundaries and, as you already know, all of this is just figuring out how better to compromise, anyway. :)

A decent partner may respect your boundaries but they will likely not be happy about it, and that means you will not be happy either.

I know. I didn't say that them respecting boundaries would make things easy or "sadness-free." :) I just pointed that out. The reason I pointed out is because if OP is like me (like I said in my post), as well as many other asexuals, I'm sure, then the thought of having sex once or twice a week as normal is a bit of a . . . bad thought. He asked a question I'm confident could depress many aces on here, or at least put a black cloud over their day. It's a good idea to try and keep calm and not freak out.

In other words, my point was more that he does not have to have sex once or twice a week, and if he's in a good relationship then he won't be made to feel by the other person that that is necessary. I'm sure he knows that, but still. That's all. :)

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As a sexual, I'd 'expect' both partners to feel they both wanted to have sex with each other after a few weeks. As Scarlett implied, sexual attraction is either there by that point or it's never going to be, and then it's down to each person feeling safe and finding an opportunity to actually have sex.

If I wanted a relationship, then not having sex would become an issue as soon as I found out it wasn't going to happen, and in a new relationship it would be a definite, instant dealbreaker. The putative relationship would be friendship from that point.

It's different when an established relationship becomes sexless because there's an existing relationship with all that other stuff, and the pain of extracting myself for the sake of sex can be more than its worth - and there's the lingering probably unjustified hope that sex will return.

Kinsey Institute indicate broadbrush average for frequency is 2-3 times a week in the 20s tapering down to 1-2 a week in the 40s for established couples. Personally I'm in my 40s and I could do 3 times a week.

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@Telecaster:

You seem to confirm my current (pessimistic) line of thinking that it's really not so much about having sex or not, but about the (tacit) expectation to want to have sex. It seems to always be there, and it's the one thing I really, really, really can't give. I could do my best to have sex somehow, but I simply cannot give an allosexual partner the feeling of being sexually desired - it's not there, it never will be.

So for now I've kind of given up on trying with allosexuals. If at a certain point I try having a relationship again, it will probably be easier with an ace.

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You're right, and I think for that kind of mixed relationship to work, the allosexual has to accept the asexual can give sex lovingly but without desire. Which is hard.

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Without an asexual introduction I guess an online started (long) distance thing could turn sexual during the 1st date with chance, which could be the 1st date in total but doesn't need to be. - Meeting for meals culture whatever half way in between would be dates without chance.

If for you not having sex is a deal breaker, when does it become an issue?

"2nd night sleepover? - In case its about living with somebody highly attractive in close quarters with some time to be affectionate at hand." <- emulated answer. Was given from a socially & logistically "ready" + middle aged POV. - There are exceptions.

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In other words, my point was more that he does not have to have sex once or twice a week, and if he's in a good relationship then he won't be made to feel by the other person that that is necessary. I'm sure he knows that, but still. That's all. :)

I disagree.

A "good" relationship doesn't have to do with what is or isn't necessary for any individual person to feel happy in the relationship (such as no sex or minimal sex for an asexual person and some sex or more frequent sex for a sexual person). A "good" relationship (and I much prefer to use the term "healthy" relationship) is one that's compatible, in which whatever any individual needs in the relationship works for all people involved in the relationship (and that includes things beyond the frequency of sex). If sex is important to someone and they want that to be a part of their relationship, then that doesn't make them not okay or not a "decent" person. We all have different wants and needs and it doesn't make any individual person necessarily "wrong" or not "good" (or not "decent") if those wants and needs aren't compatible with someone else. It really means there probably isn't a workable "compromise" and, therefore, that it's not the best idea to be in a relationship with someone who isn't compatible with us on any given set of terms (sexual or otherwise).

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In other words, my point was more that he does not have to have sex once or twice a week, and if he's in a good relationship then he won't be made to feel by the other person that that is necessary. I'm sure he knows that, but still. That's all. :)

I disagree.

A "good" relationship doesn't have to do with what is or isn't necessary for any individual person to feel happy in the relationship (such as no sex or minimal sex for an asexual person and some sex or more frequent sex for a sexual person). A "good" relationship (and I much prefer to use the term "healthy" relationship) is one that's compatible, in which whatever any individual needs in the relationship works for all people involved in the relationship (and that includes things beyond the frequency of sex). If sex is important to someone and they want that to be a part of their relationship, then that doesn't make them not okay or not a "decent" person. We all have different wants and needs and it doesn't make any individual person necessarily "wrong" or not "good" (or not "decent") if those wants and needs aren't compatible with someone else. It really means there probably isn't a workable "compromise" and, therefore, that it's not the best idea to be in a relationship with someone who isn't compatible with us on any given set of terms (sexual or otherwise).

No, I agree with you. I just worded that badly. xD What I mean is that if the OP is in a healthy relationship (as you prefer to say, which is probably better, anyway), then his partner isn't going to actively make him feel like a shitty person for not wanting sex, which of course does happen. His partner--if they are in a healthy relationship--is not going to tell him that he's being selfish, or that he's being a coward, or that no one is going to love him if he doesn't have sex. I never meant to imply that someone is bad if they want sex from an asexual (or sex in general). :)

EDIT: Outside of that, I'm also worried about the "want to want" to have sex with people. I cannot possibly want to have sex with another person, though I'm sure that, with time, I can do it lovingly (as was already said). Sigh.

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In other words, my point was more that he does not have to have sex once or twice a week, and if he's in a good relationship then he won't be made to feel by the other person that that is necessary. I'm sure he knows that, but still. That's all. :)

I disagree.

A "good" relationship doesn't have to do with what is or isn't necessary for any individual person to feel happy in the relationship (such as no sex or minimal sex for an asexual person and some sex or more frequent sex for a sexual person). A "good" relationship (and I much prefer to use the term "healthy" relationship) is one that's compatible, in which whatever any individual needs in the relationship works for all people involved in the relationship (and that includes things beyond the frequency of sex). If sex is important to someone and they want that to be a part of their relationship, then that doesn't make them not okay or not a "decent" person. We all have different wants and needs and it doesn't make any individual person necessarily "wrong" or not "good" (or not "decent") if those wants and needs aren't compatible with someone else. It really means there probably isn't a workable "compromise" and, therefore, that it's not the best idea to be in a relationship with someone who isn't compatible with us on any given set of terms (sexual or otherwise).

No, I agree with you. I just worded that badly. xD What I mean is that if the OP is in a healthy relationship (as you prefer to say, which is probably better, anyway), then his partner isn't going to actively make him feel like a shitty person for not wanting sex, which of course does happen. His partner--if they are in a healthy relationship--is not going to tell him that he's being selfish, or that he's being a coward, or that no one is going to love him if he doesn't have sex. I never meant to imply that someone is bad if they want sex from an asexual (or sex in general). :)

EDIT: Outside of that, I'm also worried about the "want to want" to have sex with people. I cannot possibly want to have sex with another person, though I'm sure that, with time, I can do it lovingly (as was already said). Sigh.

Ok, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I agree that a "decent" person will not guilt, shame, coerce, or force someone to do anything sexually (or even guilt or shame someone about their sexuality). It goes for any relationship, regardless of sexual orientation. It goes for non-sexual things also.

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You're right, and I think for that kind of mixed relationship to work, the allosexual has to accept the asexual can give sex lovingly but without desire. Which is hard.

Do you mean that it's hard for the sexual to accept that, or hard for the sexual to have a relationship where the other person doesn't desire sex? I don't see why it would be hard for sexual to accept it -- because it's just reality; why couldn't they accept it?

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You're right, and I think for that kind of mixed relationship to work, the allosexual has to accept the asexual can give sex lovingly but without desire. Which is hard.

Do you mean that it's hard for the sexual to accept that, or hard for the sexual to have a relationship where the other person doesn't desire sex? I don't see why it would be hard for sexual to accept it -- because it's just reality; why couldn't they accept it?

I really think it's about accepting it, and that's judging from my own attempts at making relationships with allosexuals work. It's possibly some kind of link between "being desired" and "feeling loved", and if it's like that it also means it's very difficult to control, because it's about feelings, not conscious decisions. And as an asexual I can only do so much to show my love in other ways - it might still not be enough to compensate for my lack of sexual desire.

So even if both partners do their best, there's still some gap which is difficult to bridge.

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You're right, and I think for that kind of mixed relationship to work, the allosexual has to accept the asexual can give sex lovingly but without desire. Which is hard.

Do you mean that it's hard for the sexual to accept that, or hard for the sexual to have a relationship where the other person doesn't desire sex? I don't see why it would be hard for sexual to accept it -- because it's just reality; why couldn't they accept it?

It's about wanting to be desired. Logically, sure, they know that--but that doesn't actually change anything. Not being thought of as attractive by your partner hurts, period. I'm not sure if we asexuals have an exact equivalency, but I suppose it would sort of be like if we were in a relationship with someone, but they didn't love us, and only wanted sex. Deal breaker.

For sexuals I imagine that it's like, "Well, if you don't find me attractive, why the hell are we even together?" It would likely take time for them to adjust to the idea of not being wanted sexually, and even then there's no guarantee they can be happy like that.

So, what Timewarp said XD

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I meant it's hard finding enough closeness and intimacy in sex to sustain a relationship even after you've accepted you're loved but not desired.

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I'm not sure if we asexuals have an exact equivalency, but I suppose it would sort of be like if we were in a relationship with someone, but they didn't love us, and only wanted sex. Deal breaker.

I think the equivalent would rather be if an asexual was in a relationship with a sexual and the sexual d said they loved the asexual but didn't want any emotional closeness.

If that were true for me in a relationship, I just wouldn't want that relationship. So it's a matter of recognizing reality and deciding whether you can deal with that reality -- and that would be true for both sexuals and asexuals. Whining just wouldn't change anything.

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Well, sure, whining won't change anything . . . but I hardly think it's wrong to be upset and want to talk about something that bothers you, and if not having sex bothers them then why shun them? We don't typically accuse asexuals here of whining when they express their hurt/discomfort that sex is so often seen as over cuddling, when they view cuddling as the strongest physical act of love, so why should we accuse sexuals here of whining when it's just the reverse?

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I don't think it's quite the reverse, though. Sexuals come here mostly after experiencing issues in a mixed relationship, whether they stay after that or not. While for asexuals, most seem single. Discussing lack of non-sexual closeness in general (the "sex is the most amazing thing and if you don't think so you're broken" kind of messages), or lack of sexual closeness in a particular relationship is really different. You can't escape society's views, so talking about it is pretty much the only thing you can do, and a forum about asexuality is a safe place to do so. But if your relationship makes you unhappy? Either leave, or don't. But whining won't change anything.

I will definitely advise an ace who isn't happy in their relationship because their sensual needs aren't met to either accept it or leave, there is no other ethical solution about it, you cannot make it happen - and my stance is exactly the same for sexuals and their needs. Once the need has been stated and it's still not enough to make a change in the relationship, there is just no point reminding the partner of the fact, over and over and over. The issue is probably not short-term memory loss. It's not wrong to express being upset about it (although it can be if it leads to harassment, emotional blackmail etc. so be really fucking careful not to let resentment turn it into something nasty), it's just delusional. Take it or leave it.

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nanogretchen4

The thing is, both partners are equally free to leave the relationship if either of them actually wants to. If the less sexual partner prefers divorce to listening to complaints, that is their choice. If they prefer listening to some complaints to divorce, that is also their choice. Both partners have agency.

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Absolutely, but it's not like we can give that advice to someone who isn't there. Additionally, it won't make me give a green card for the pushing option, if I can't be sure the other partner has really integrated that they can and should leave if it gets too much - people stay in all kind of crazy relationships and the fear of losing someone can make you accept things you really shouldn't. I will not assume the absent partner is in a good state mentally and will take no shit. I simply will not take that risk, ever.

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Whatever your opinion may be on "whining," this is still fairly frequent on here:

If an asexual mentions that they are unhappy with how much their partner views sex as an act of importance, but still loves their partner (which, let's say in this case that means that they are happy in the relationship), then they are met with general agreement, consolation, and comfort.

If a sexual mentions that they are unhappy with how their partner doesn't like sex, but still loves their partner (which, once again, let's say that that means they are happy in he relationship), then they are frequently met with, "Well, if you don't like it, then get out."

If they're being rude and insensitive then that's certainly one thing, but I don't understand how it's okay for one group of people to "whine," but it's not for the other. That is all I'm talking about.

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nanogretchen4

I would not be grateful to someone who advised my partner to shut up and leave me already because I'm clearly too delicate to withstand conversation. I would prefer to know what is really going on in my relationship in time to take action if I choose to.

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Once the need has been stated and it's still not enough to make a change in the relationship, there is just no point reminding the partner of the fact, over and over and over.

^^ :cake:

My reference to "whining" comes from reading very repetitive posts from sexuals who say they've been in a marriage with an asexual for many years and the asexual has never shown liking for sex, and the sexual is still upset about it and says they are "trapped" in the marriage. At that point, it sounds like whining to me.

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You're right, and I think for that kind of mixed relationship to work, the allosexual has to accept the asexual can give sex lovingly but without desire. Which is hard.

Do you mean that it's hard for the sexual to accept that, or hard for the sexual to have a relationship where the other person doesn't desire sex? I don't see why it would be hard for sexual to accept it -- because it's just reality; why couldn't they accept it?

It's about wanting to be desired. Logically, sure, they know that--but that doesn't actually change anything. Not being thought of as attractive by your partner hurts, period. I'm not sure if we asexuals have an exact equivalency, but I suppose it would sort of be like if we were in a relationship with someone, but they didn't love us, and only wanted sex. Deal breaker.

For sexuals I imagine that it's like, "Well, if you don't find me attractive, why the hell are we even together?" It would likely take time for them to adjust to the idea of not being wanted sexually, and even then there's no guarantee they can be happy like that.

So, what Timewarp said XD

My "exact equivelency is *needing* to be loved and desired without any need for or expectation of sex. I can't get that from a sexual person. Just as, from me, a sexual person will never be able to experience me *wanting* to connect intimately with them on a sexual level.

They are unable to desire me without there being some innate desire for sexual intimacy attached to that, I am unable to desire sexual intimacy with them, no matter how emotionally, aesthetically, and physically attracted to them I am. They are unable to *not* desire sex with me, despite being aesthetically, emotionally and physically attracted to me. I *need* the person I love to be attracted to me in those ways without any desire for or expectation of sex attached to that attraction. So that's my equivalent.

I *need* for the sex not to be expected, needed or desired (or I can't feel truly loved) they need FOR the sex to be expected, needed, and desired (or it is hard for them to feel truly loved)

and just to clarify, when I say physical attraction, I am referring to an attraction stronger than aesthetic attraction.. it's very strong, gives you "feelings" -emotional and physical - in relation to how that person physically looks, maybe how they move, how they speak..how they smell.. makes you want to connect with them, be close to them, touch them. Its not sexual though if no desire to actually connect sexually with that person in any way is present. I do experience very strong physical attraction at times (when emotionally attracted to someone) but I have also experienced what would be defined as "sexual attraction" (a desire to connect sexually with someone) and I know they are both very different feelings. One is just "I want to be near your body, touch you, look at you, breathe in your scent" the other is "I am aching to have you inside me, for us to be a part of each other" ..you get the idea..

Many disagree with me of course and say that sexual and physical attraction are the same thing, but I personally think it makes sense to differentiate between them. There is certainly a feeling "stronger" than aesthetic attraction (an appreciation of beauty) but is still not a desire to actually connect sexually with another person. Physical attraction seems to fit the definition of whatever that "between" state is (between an appreciation of beauty and a ddesire to actually fuck someone, to connect with them on that sexual level)

I think I may have veered off topic there, apologies.

Also, I am typing on my phone, so please ignore any embarrassing typos :o

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Once the need has been stated and it's still not enough to make a change in the relationship, there is just no point reminding the partner of the fact, over and over and over.

^^ :cake:

My reference to "whining" comes from reading very repetitive posts from sexuals who say they've been in a marriage with an asexual for many years and the asexual has never shown liking for sex, and the sexual is still upset about it and says they are "trapped" in the marriage. At that point, it sounds like whining to me.

Yeah I agree. I see the "I am trapped in this I can't get out" so often I actually start getting upset about it (I made an angry status update about it the other day but deleted it since)

..Whereas I usually see from asexuals "My partner wants sex and I want to somehow find a way to make them happy, is there anything I can do, should I let them sleep with other people?" etc.. or just upset that they can't give their partner what they need and looking for support.

However what I say obviously isn't true of all sexual partners here, many I think are super cool, just come here to find/give advice and tips on being in a relationship with an asexual, trying to understand asexuality so they can better understand their partner. I admire that. But yeah..the whining... "how can I keep living like this it's been 5 years and my asexual partner is destroying all the confidence I ever had...I'm trapped I'll never get out of this hell" and no matter how much advice you try and give they just keep saying how awful their lot is being "trapped with an asexual" ..meeeep >.<

..I kinda wish there was a "whine about your asexual partner" support page off AVEN, so that sexual people who don't actually want tips or advice, but who literally just want to have a moan, could go there and have kind of like, a safe space? where they won't be judged because it's just amongst themselves, and where asexuals won't have to see the topic come up in the feed and click it, not expecting it to be an "asexual partner bitch-fest" ...*sigh*

EDIT I really appreciate all the sexual input on AVEN, of course..I'm just saying it would be good to have a "moaning" space off AVEN so sexuals who wish to moan won't get attacked and asexuals don't feel attacked, maybe linked in the sexual forum or something.

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