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The Polyamorous Solution


closetPonyfan

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That reads like you're only with C till you find someone 'better'...

I don't even..

EDIT: I don't get why you'd think that, but if that's genuinely how it reads to you, let me explain. I definitely agree it is possible for me to find someone "better" with regards to sex and romance. But that doesn't mean I'd consider that person a "better partner" or "more important" overall. I'd just have another relationship where I can meet certain of my needs that C. can't meet. I guess this doesn't really parse for someone who's both mono-normative and links sex to love intrinsically in their mind.

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Mhm, had a long talk with her yesterday. Here's what she said:

- What bothers her is the uncertainty involved in this. She's worried that, what will happen if I have another relationship, would I still have enough time for her?

- But when I asked her what we should do about this, she said we should be optimistic and see what happens.

- She also said she doesn't want to be that "Tussi" (German word for superficial woman) who gets envious just because her boyfriend is talking to another woman.

I'm also noticing that she's making a lot more of an effort lately to show me her affection.. Which I personally consider a good thing, even though it certainly wasn't my intention to cause that to happen by approaching said woman.

So.. yeah, I guess we shall see. I also want to be optimistic. I kind of trust everyone, myself, my partner, and the woman I approached, so I don't see why things shouldn't work out. :P

PS: The really confusing part about this is, if you remember a few weeks back, she pretty much was all about needing space and being unsure about our relationship. And now she's worried that I might not give her enough attention. It's really hard to do any kind of "planning" with someone whose desires flip around between "all" and "nothing" like that so frequently. T_T

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Tar, are you not bothered that she's only increasing the amount of attention, affection etc because she feels threatened by this other woman you've met?

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Not really, no. Same way I wouldn't be bothered if I had a blackout one day, and I bought a backup generator as a result. As Serran already said, sometimes we don't realize how important the things are for us that we take for granted.

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Telecaster68

Some more devil's advocate - you're not a generator, you're a person who she apparently cares about and wants you to be happy just a good thing in its own right. It's one thing if she's doing everything she can and that's not enough for you. It's another if she's doing the minimum to keep you around. While no other women were around, you'd accept a fairly low level of maintenance. Now she's worried there's another woman around who'll open your eyes to what you're missing, and she discovers she can actually do more.

The problem here isn't the upping of her game - it's that she didn't inherently care about you enough to do it anyway.

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It's not a problem to me.

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If Tar is OK with how she is, it's not an issue. With a poly commitment, they can find the romantic etc needs elsewhere, as they find it. So, it isn't as if he's "giving up" anything to be with her - he's getting from her something, he can't get it all. He can get the other elsewhere. If he is happy, that is all that matters.

As for her not caring enough to do it... there is a huge difference between not caring and not being able to. I sincerely doubt the "extra attention" she's giving now will be sustainable long-term, not with how Tar has posted about her in the past. Though, she may have a new appreciation for something, after the risk it might get lost and be a little more affectionate in the future.

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Telecaster68

here is a huge difference between not caring and not being able to.

That's my point - not being able would apply whether or not there was a potential threat on the horizon.

Though, she may have a new appreciation for something, after the risk it might get lost and be a little more affectionate in the future.

Again, depends if it's a matter of 'able' or 'willing'. Of course, there are plenty aren't able to be affectionate, but it's very difficult to understand how that's the whole story if they're able to be affectionate when the relationship is threatened. It might be temporary though, I agree.

As you say though, if Tar's fine with it, no problem. I don't mean to have a go at C or Tar though, but with the most generous spirit in the world, writing off your partner's needs until your relationship with them is threatened does raise questions, to me.

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Well, I didn't put that very clearly. She sure has given me as much attention during many time stretches in the past. It's more an issue of priorities. Exams are ahead, so she thinks it's okay to block out all emotions and become a study robot. I don't feel I have the right to tell her otherwise, so I just let her do so. But, well, since I am capable of having a balance between study and personal life, that frees up lots of time and energy for me. Time and energy that, in this case, I invested into approaching said girl.

The fact that this would "irritate" her, was something we both didn't see coming, and now that it's happened I think she's re-evaluating her priorities. I think she's now more accutely aware that I'm not like a plaything she can put away whenever it suits her. And that may make her sound really horrible, but she's never had a relationship or any kind of true friendship before, so she's really inexperienced in that regard. I'm happy to stick things out with her and see how she develops.

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Telecaster68
The fact that this would "irritate" her, was something we both didn't see coming, and now that it's happened I think she's re-evaluating her priorities. I think she's now more accutely aware that I'm not like a plaything she can put away whenever it suits her. And that may make her sound really horrible, but she's never had a relationship or any kind of true friendship before, so she's really inexperienced in that regard. I'm happy to stick things out with her and see how she develops.

Yeah, it's the plaything element that bothers me, and I guess if that's a learning experience then it could well pan out. I'm just concerned that you're so accommodating to her lack of empathy that you'll end up miserable and convinced it's entirely down to your own inability to squash your own needs sufficiently.

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here is a huge difference between not caring and not being able to.

That's my point - not being able would apply whether or not there was a potential threat on the horizon.

Not really. Plenty of people tend to do things short-term that they can't sustain long-term when they perceive a threat. It's even made it into popular culture - how many movies/tv shows make a skit out of someone be super nice, super affectionate etc because they are afraid the person is getting into someone else, or they did something wrong? I saw it plenty when I was at college, too, dressing up and doing stuff they normally wouldn't to "recapture" the early times as a way of trying to keep their attention focused. Sure, you can make dinner and give a foot rub every night, but that's not something a lot of people are going to keep going for life, no matter how much their partner wants them to.

And, one of the primary focuses of couples therapy tends to be not allowing signs of appreciation/affection to go away with time, since people tend to get complacent until there is a threat.

So it's not uncommon for people to react to a perceived threat by upping the level of affection. But, therapists suggest keeping that (on some level) throughout the relationship.

Well, I didn't put that very clearly. She sure has given me as much attention during many time stretches in the past. It's more an issue of priorities. Exams are ahead, so she thinks it's okay to block out all emotions and become a study robot. I don't feel I have the right to tell her otherwise, so I just let her do so.

I would imagine with her OCD and such, she tends to get tunnel vision focused on some things. That's gonna be hard to stop doing for her. But, I am glad you have this new friend to keep you company now, when your girlfriend is preoccupied. :)

And I will agree with Tele, that you need to stand up for your needs as well as hers. But, I have a feeling you guys talk about the conflicts of needs when you need to. But, be confident that your needs are important too.

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Yeah, it's the plaything element that bothers me, and I guess if that's a learning experience then it could well pan out. I'm just concerned that you're so accommodating to her lack of empathy that you'll end up miserable and convinced it's entirely down to your own inability to squash your own needs sufficiently.

She does have empathy. She just has even heavier emotional problems. It's the fact that I have empathy, that I can accept her as she is, something which, yes, outside of her family, I'm the only person in her life who's shown her that kind of acceptance. But that's how I work. I won't feel miserable; To be loved, that is not my freedom in this world. But to find a person who I adore, and to pour my being into loving and accepting them as they are, this is something I can do. This is my freedom.

I would imagine with her OCD and such, she tends to get tunnel vision focused on some things. That's gonna be hard to stop doing for her. But, I am glad you have this new friend to keep you company now, when your girlfriend is preoccupied. :)

And I will agree with Tele, that you need to stand up for your needs as well as hers. But, I have a feeling you guys talk about the conflicts of needs when you need to. But, be confident that your needs are important too.

Yeah.. to be honest, I've been doing a lot of soul searching yesterday and today.. And I'm starting to wonder, if C. does have the expectation of a monogamous relationship after all, could that work out? I'm okay with listening to her and being careful not to hurt her feelings, but if she were to downright say "Nope, you can't talk to other women".. I don't know.

I've been in the other situation myself before. Had a female friend who had a boyfriend, and the female friend insisted she wouldn't place her relationship over our friendship. And then that's exactly what happened. I feel this kind of thing to be utterly disrespectful toward a friendship. To me, relationships should be autonomous and it's *not* okay to damage one relationship (in the general sense, including friendship) for the sake of another.

So.. yeah. I trust C., and I don't think this is what it'll come down to. But if it does, I'll have a very hard decision to make.. :/

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Telecaster68
Not really. Plenty of people tend to do things short-term that they can't sustain long-term when they perceive a threat.

Well, some things.

If instead of 'affection' we have 'dogging', and my partner had been making it clear they were dying inside for lack of dogging, and I'd said 'nope, sorry, that's a hard boundary, cannot do', until they found someone else to go dogging with, at which point it suddenly ceased to be a hard boundary, they'd naturally start to wonder what the nature of the initial 'no' was. Was it a real boundary? Or was it more like 'well I could, but I'd rather not, even though it means a lot to my partner, and I'd rather not think about the implications of my refusal, so I'm going to say it's a hard boundary to close down issue'.

And then it looks like there's a threat to the relationship from the dogging angle, and suddenly I reconsider and discover it's no longer a hard boundary Now the partner who reluctantly accepted the hard boundary is wondering how much positive effort I think this relationship from my side, as opposed to defensive measures, and what does that imply about the rest of the relationship.

I agree it's likely to not be sustainable though.

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Telecaster68

Yeah, it's the plaything element that bothers me, and I guess if that's a learning experience then it could well pan out. I'm just concerned that you're so accommodating to her lack of empathy that you'll end up miserable and convinced it's entirely down to your own inability to squash your own needs sufficiently.

She does have empathy. She just has even heavier emotional problems. It's the fact that I have empathy, that I can accept her as she is, something which, yes, outside of her family, I'm the only person in her life who's shown her that kind of acceptance. But that's how I work. I won't feel miserable; To be loved, that is not my freedom in this world. But to find a person who I adore, and to pour my being into loving and accepting them as they are, this is something I can do. This is my freedom.

Sooner or later you will need something back, if only to fill up your own emotional batteries, Tar.

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Yeah, it's the plaything element that bothers me, and I guess if that's a learning experience then it could well pan out. I'm just concerned that you're so accommodating to her lack of empathy that you'll end up miserable and convinced it's entirely down to your own inability to squash your own needs sufficiently.

She does have empathy. She just has even heavier emotional problems. It's the fact that I have empathy, that I can accept her as she is, something which, yes, outside of her family, I'm the only person in her life who's shown her that kind of acceptance. But that's how I work. I won't feel miserable; To be loved, that is not my freedom in this world. But to find a person who I adore, and to pour my being into loving and accepting them as they are, this is something I can do. This is my freedom.

Sooner or later you will need something back, if only to fill up your own emotional batteries, Tar.

Indeed. And if this stuff hadn't happened, that'd have been after the exams. ;) She does make an effort, and it's enough for me, I only wished she would make more of an effort because it's nice to be above the bare necessary minimum in life.

Also, I've been going into meditation and fantasy again, which helps a lot with keeping those emotional batteries stocked. When you have a reliable lover inside your mind, what others do and don't do becomes less of a potential danger.

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