Do you consider your aromanticism a curse or gift?

[Saber Wing]

People who commit suicide aren't cowards.

Well they certainly aren't brave.

I realize I may be butting in here, not to mention going a bit off topic and for that I apoligize, but I take such issue with what you just said, Tiffany, that I feel compelled to reply. I'm not sure if you understand this, but most of the time when people commit suicide, they have a very serious underlying mental disorder, or multiple disorders. Some of them fight every day of their lives to find treatment that works, and unfortunately, not all of those people win their fights. You wouldn't call someone foregoing cancer treatment after a long battle, a coward, would you? I wouldn't. The only difference between the two is, one is physical. The other is mental.

Quite frankly, I don't think you really have the right to pass judgement like that about anyone, for any reason.

[Guest]

People who commit suicide aren't cowards.

Well they certainly aren't brave.

It takes quite a lot of bravery and strength (both born of absolute desperation, in most cases) to overcome the most basic physiological drive there is, the one to survive.

[TiffanyJung]

Hmmm....If you say so Mysticus.But this 'bravery' and 'strength' as you call it destroys families.

And trust me I know what it's like to want to end your life but you know I'd rather not see the tears on my parents faces or the shock and grief on my friends because I made a stupid decision.

If you're really strong, you push through no matter how difficult it is.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

You've already proven yourself to be rather judgmental, Tiffany, I suggest you stop now. You're on a forum with a lot of people who have at some point considered, or known others who have, suicide. You have NO right to call them cowards.

[Homer]

How 'bout we just return to the original question? Please?

[TiffanyJung]

Yes Homer, you all can go back to your discussion right after I reply to Saver and Anthracite.

People who commit suicide aren't cowards.

Well they certainly aren't brave.

I realize I may be butting in here, not to mention going a bit off topic and for that I apoligize, but I take such issue with what you just said, Tiffany, that I feel compelled to reply. I'm not sure if you understand this, but most of the time when people commit suicide, they have a very serious underlying mental disorder, or multiple disorders. Some of them fight every day of their lives to find treatment that works, and unfortunately, not all of those people win their fights. You wouldn't call someone foregoing cancer treatment after a long battle, a coward, would you? I wouldn't. The only difference between the two is, one is physical. The other is mental.

Quite frankly, I don't think you really have the right to pass judgement like that about anyone, for any reason.

I actually feel quite sorry for those who commit suicide. To be backed into a corner where they believe that it's the only way out is just plain sad.

But it's never the answer to the problem. When people do that , they forget about those people who love them and who'll be devastated by their death.

You can empathize with dead but I prefer to think of the living and how much they would be hurt by this, especially their parents.

And frankly, I was talking about the people in my country specifically. I wasn't even thinking of people outside my country. I know how stressful life can get in the West and how mental disorders affect people there, so no I wasn't talking about them.

People in my country commit suicide over silly things like not getting the remote to the T.V.

How is that a mental disorder Saber?Tell me.

You've already proven yourself to be rather judgmental, Tiffany, I suggest you stop now. You're on a forum with a lot of people who have at some point considered, or known others who have, suicide. You have NO right to call them cowards.

For the record ,I wasn't even thinking of people outside my country and I was specifically talking about those who commit suicide because they were rejected . I know how stressful life can get in the West and how mental disorders affect people there, so no I wasn't talking about them.

People in my country commit suicide over silly things like not getting the remote to the T.V. And seriously unrequited love? It's not the end of the world simply because 'X' was rejected.

Now jobs, that I can understand.

We live in two different societies . The scenarios are very different.I was talking from the perspective of mine not yours.

If you still want to call me judgemental after this it's up to you but before you do please have some

[Saber Wing]

Yes Homer, you all can go back to your discussion right after I reply to Saver and Anthracite.

People who commit suicide aren't cowards.

Well they certainly aren't brave.

I realize I may be butting in here, not to mention going a bit off topic and for that I apoligize, but I take such issue with what you just said, Tiffany, that I feel compelled to reply. I'm not sure if you understand this, but most of the time when people commit suicide, they have a very serious underlying mental disorder, or multiple disorders. Some of them fight every day of their lives to find treatment that works, and unfortunately, not all of those people win their fights. You wouldn't call someone foregoing cancer treatment after a long battle, a coward, would you? I wouldn't. The only difference between the two is, one is physical. The other is mental.

Quite frankly, I don't think you really have the right to pass judgement like that about anyone, for any reason.

I actually feel quite sorry for those who commit suicide. To be backed into a corner where they believe that it's the only way out is just plain sad.

But it's never the answer to the problem. When people do that , they forget about those people who love them and who'll be devastated by their death.

You can empathize with dead but I prefer to think of the living and how much they would be hurt by this, especially their parents.

And frankly, I was talking about the people in my country specifically. I wasn't even thinking of people outside my country. I know how stressful life can get in the West and how mental disorders affect people there, so no I wasn't talking about them.

People in my country commit suicide over silly things like not getting the remote to the T.V.

How is that a mental disorder Saber? Tell me.

I'm sorry, Homer. This will be the last I say about the matter.

How do you know so much about how those people in your country were feeling, Tiffany? Even if they were personal friends or relatives of yours, you weren't inside their heads. You don't know what demons they were facing. For you to sit here and say they do it for 'silly' reasons is, I believe, very judgemental. I'm not claiming to know what goes on where you live, but it strikes me as very arrogant to walk around, saying you're the strong one because you're still alive, and fighting. How do you know it was really about 'a TV remote?' Do you know what underlying issues they were dealing with? Maybe I shouldn't make assumptions myself, but in my experience, I find that it is rarely about a TV remote, or one mean remark.

Difference in opinion, I suppose, but I don't use my own experiences with depression and suicide to justify passing judgement on others who didn't make it. Who felt so trapped they felt they had no other option than to take their own life. I understand it from both sides. I've been the sobbing family member, and the one fighting for her life. We'll have to agree to disagree, Tiffany, because I think you're wrong. You don't get to stand there and tell me you're stronger than anyone simply because you're here and they're not. You weren't inside their head. Their reasons were theirs, and yes, it is very judgemental for you to call them cowards in light of that.

[TiffanyJung]

Yes Homer, you all can go back to your discussion right after I reply to Saver and Anthracite.

People who commit suicide aren't cowards.

Well they certainly aren't brave.

I realize I may be butting in here, not to mention going a bit off topic and for that I apoligize, but I take such issue with what you just said, Tiffany, that I feel compelled to reply. I'm not sure if you understand this, but most of the time when people commit suicide, they have a very serious underlying mental disorder, or multiple disorders. Some of them fight every day of their lives to find treatment that works, and unfortunately, not all of those people win their fights. You wouldn't call someone foregoing cancer treatment after a long battle, a coward, would you? I wouldn't. The only difference between the two is, one is physical. The other is mental.

Quite frankly, I don't think you really have the right to pass judgement like that about anyone, for any reason.

I actually feel quite sorry for those who commit suicide. To be backed into a corner where they believe that it's the only way out is just plain sad.

But it's never the answer to the problem. When people do that , they forget about those people who love them and who'll be devastated by their death.

You can empathize with dead but I prefer to think of the living and how much they would be hurt by this, especially their parents.

And frankly, I was talking about the people in my country specifically. I wasn't even thinking of people outside my country. I know how stressful life can get in the West and how mental disorders affect people there, so no I wasn't talking about them.

People in my country commit suicide over silly things like not getting the remote to the T.V.

How is that a mental disorder Saber? Tell me.

I'm sorry, Homer. This will be the last I say about the matter.

How do you know so much about how those people in your country were feeling, Tiffany? Even if they were personal friends or relatives of yours, you weren't inside their heads. You don't know what demons they were facing. For you to sit here and say they do it for 'silly' reasons is, I believe, very judgemental. I'm not claiming to know what goes on where you live, but it strikes me as very arrogant to walk around, saying you're the strong one because you're still alive, and fighting. How do you know it was really about 'a TV remote?' Do you know what underlying issues they were dealing with? Maybe I shouldn't make assumptions myself, but in my experience, I find that it is rarely about a TV remote, or one mean remark.

Difference in opinion, I suppose, but I don't use my own experiences with depression and suicide to justify passing judgement on others who didn't make it. Who felt so trapped they felt they had no other option than to take their own life. I understand it from both sides. I've been the sobbing family member, and the one fighting for her life. We'll have to agree to disagree, Tiffany, because I think you're wrong. You don't get to stand there and tell me you're stronger than anyone simply because you're here and they're not. You weren't inside their head. Their reasons were theirs, and yes, it is very judgemental for you to call them cowards in light of that.

I did some thinking and I've come to the conclusion that you and Anthracite are right. I was extremely judgemental and honestly those posts were written when I was half asleep so....

Well maybe not cowards....No you're right they're definitely not cowards but I still do feel sorry for them. No one should feel so backed into a corner that they take their own lives.

And I'm extremely sorry that you lost someone Saber :(

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I don't care what cultures we come from, suicide is suicide. Of course it's not nice the family and friends have to suffer, but the one who feels their only way out is to kill themself is suffering more, and they shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it or that they are 'cowards'. Like Saber said, you haven't got a clue what's going on in a suicidal person's head or life, and to put a blanket judgement on them all is incredibly arrogant.

[Saber Wing]

I did some thinking and I've come to the conclusion that you and Anthracite are right. I was extremely judgemental and honestly those posts were written when I was half asleep so....

Well maybe not cowards....No you're right they're definitely not cowards but I still do feel sorry for them. No one should feel so backed into a corner that they take their own lives.

And I'm extremely sorry that you lost someone Saber :(

Thank you, Tiffany, I appreciate that. It's not everyone who'd be willing to admit when they were wrong. I'm glad we've come to an understanding.

[TiffanyJung]

I don't care what cultures we come from, suicide is suicide. Of course it's not nice the family and friends have to suffer, but the one who feels their only way out is to kill themself is suffering more, and they shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it or that they are 'cowards'. Like Saber said, you haven't got a clue what's going on in a suicidal person's head or life, and to put a blanket judgement on them all is incredibly arrogant.

I did some thinking and I've come to the conclusion that you're right. I was extremely judgemental and honestly those posts were written when I was half asleep so....

Well maybe not cowards....No you're right they're definitely not cowards but I still do feel sorry for them. No one should feel so backed into a corner that they take their own lives.

[Anthracite_Impreza]

I don't care what cultures we come from, suicide is suicide. Of course it's not nice the family and friends have to suffer, but the one who feels their only way out is to kill themself is suffering more, and they shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it or that they are 'cowards'. Like Saber said, you haven't got a clue what's going on in a suicidal person's head or life, and to put a blanket judgement on them all is incredibly arrogant.

I did some thinking and I've come to the conclusion that you're right. I was extremely judgemental and honestly those posts were written when I was half asleep so....

Well maybe not cowards....No you're right they're definitely not cowards but I still do feel sorry for them. No one should feel so backed into a corner that they take their own lives.

Alright, well it's good of you to take onboard what we've said so thanks. I don't like arguing with people but this is a subject I cannot stay silent on, it's very personal for me. Please take some cake on your way out.

[zoom]

'It's so great to absolutely submit to someone'? SMH. I seriously wonder whether the person who told you that knows what love really means.

You're right it isn't the general rule :)

I'll try and explain to the best of my ability what it is and perhaps why they consider it amazing.

So romantic love is this pull 'X' feels towards another person, a pull that makes 'X' think of them 24/7 ( Which can be a bit annoying), makes 'X' smile involuntarily whenever 'X' think about him/her, makes 'X' want to be with him/her even if he's/her hurt 'X' (Nothing serious though, no cheating or anything like that) , just want to make him/her smile when he's/she's feeling down and hug him/her tight and say I love you. It's something that makes 'X' want to share every moment with him/her and saddens 'X' when he/she leaves.

It's this feeling that makes you feel on top of the world and believe that you can do anything.

Of course it can be seriously devastating too , people commit suicide if their love is unrequited but those people are cowards who can't face life.

And yes it can make people lose their jobs , turn them into stalkers but those people lie at the extreme end and frankly in their cases it's not really love, it's obsession.

It can make people depressed but then those people rely too much on their relationships which isn't healthy at all, and this is applicable to both aros and romantics so.....

So I'll say that it's both positive and negative.

When you love someone you want them to be happy. I don't know whether I've managed to change your opinion about these feelings being shallow but even if I haven't , well there's still

:)

Very interesting, thank you.

But it is still hard to understand the feelings, why it is good "wanting to be with someone all the time" (for example), because personally, I've spent most of my life by "trying to be alone" and getting away from the people who were around just all the time. Now, I value "being alone" very highly, which sometimes leads to funny situations, like yesterday, when someone started the thing about "childfree people being alone when they are old" and I was immediately like "another reason for being childfree, when you have children, you won't get rid of them even when they are grown up, they often keep visiting and ask you to babysit THEIR children so you don't have your peace even when you are very old" :D At first, it totally did not occur to me that some people perceive these things as good.

"When you love someone you want them to be happy."

I want that too, quite often and for many people, but I also want them to choose HOW they want to be happy. Instead of pushing "be happy, but spend time with me" attitude.

I remember how I surprised a therapist when I answered "well, I would break up with him" after the sequence of questions "so, theoretically, if you had a boyfriend and he wanted you to go to some trip you consider boring, you would not go?" - "of course not!" - "what if he was pressing you?". Well, my second idea was "he cannot press me, I have a gun" :D

Personally, I find it absolutely shocking, horrible and disgusting when people press others to waste their precious free time doing some shit "because I want to be with youuuuuu". In my opinion, if the man loves me, he just lets me do all my normal single activities and accompanies me, instead of trying to change me "just to be with him". Ew. Now I can really imagine pulling the trigger, I got so angry when thinking about this shit. My parents did this all the time, dragging me to THEIR activities - which is actually one of the reasons why I don't believe that the really love me (obviously they did not want me to be happy, not if it meant changing their life, so they were just dragging me around and blaming me for being bored).

[EmotionalAndroid]

Because I am also ace, it is really a gift. I don't have to worry about wanting to get into a relationship and having to be really careful about the orientation of the other person.

It is kind of a pain in the ass dealing with all the romance-obsessed media and things, and the fact that most people cannot seem to fathom a purely platonic relationship between two people of different sexes (or the same sex, for that matter). But that's minor, in the grand scheme of things.

[zoom]

Hmmm....If you say so Mysticus.But this 'bravery' and 'strength' as you call it destroys families.

And trust me I know what it's like to want to end your life but you know I'd rather not see the tears on my parents faces or the shock and grief on my friends because I made a stupid decision.

If you're really strong, you push through no matter how difficult it is.

I would say that it is fault of the parents, that they are destroyed. They should accept that "my child would lead life of unhappiness, to it is better to die and not feel anything".

Staying alive = being unhappy all the time.

Dying = not feeling anything.

"Zero emotion" state is better than "negative emotion" state, and if the parents really cared, they would want their child to be happy or at least not unhappy.

But, very often, people are selfish and have their own ideas of "what should happiness mean" and think like "if s/he stayed alive, s/he would get over that somehow and be happy afterwards because X is not really important", putting "X is not important for me personally = X is not important generally".

I also don't understand why is "pushing through no matter what" sign of strength, I mean if you are unhappy all the time (and no obvious chance it will get better), then just go and kill yourself! I hated this about my sister, she was crying every day and throwing tantrums and drinking etc. etc. etc., first is spoiled my Bachelor studies, second I had to get random sex partners "to get place to sleep for free - somewhere where it is SILENT, without her hysterics", and I honestly could not understand why. Why she continues doing this? I don't get it. If I were unhappy like that (and no obvious chance to get better, because she did not have any hard reasons for that), then I would just end it.

I actually found it pretty frustrating that all my problems in my life were something that could be easily solved (either by having some money - and not that much, or being 18+, or being done with school and working full time), "so I have to wait and suffer instead of killing myself". I would do that, if I could turn back time, though.

And my parents actually make me suicidal (especially my mother), I would actually love to see the shock when they realize that I was not kidding or "babbling some stupid things" and that I am well capable of killing myself if my life is not going like I want. They - especially my mother - are all about "getting used to it" and "making peace with that", but I am totally incapable of that when it comes to some things, and I am actually not even trying, because I am really allergic to the "getting used to it" and "making peace with that". I've always yelled back things like "I will never make peace with anything!" and I was right :) It is actually one of the reasons why I am not talking with them, I got to point where high buildings and similar structures were really tempting, so I just cut the communication.

[TiffanyJung]

Hmmm....If you say so Mysticus.But this 'bravery' and 'strength' as you call it destroys families.

And trust me I know what it's like to want to end your life but you know I'd rather not see the tears on my parents faces or the shock and grief on my friends because I made a stupid decision.

If you're really strong, you push through no matter how difficult it is.

I would say that it is fault of the parents, that they are destroyed. They should accept that "my child would lead life of unhappiness, to it is better to die and not feel anything".

Staying alive = being unhappy all the time.

Dying = not feeling anything.

"Zero emotion" state is better than "negative emotion" state, and if the parents really cared, they would want their child to be happy or at least not unhappy.

But, very often, people are selfish and have their own ideas of "what should happiness mean" and think like "if s/he stayed alive, s/he would get over that somehow and be happy afterwards because X is not really important", putting "X is not important for me personally = X is not important generally".

I also don't understand why is "pushing through no matter what" sign of strength, I mean if you are unhappy all the time (and no obvious chance it will get better), then just go and kill yourself! I hated this about my sister, she was crying every day and throwing tantrums and drinking etc. etc. etc., first is spoiled my Bachelor studies, second I had to get random sex partners "to get place to sleep for free - somewhere where it is SILENT, without her hysterics", and I honestly could not understand why. Why she continues doing this? I don't get it. If I were unhappy like that (and no obvious chance to get better, because she did not have any hard reasons for that), then I would just end it.

I actually found it pretty frustrating that all my problems in my life were something that could be easily solved (either by having some money - and not that much, or being 18+, or being done with school and working full time), "so I have to wait and suffer instead of killing myself". I would do that, if I could turn back time, though.

And my parents actually make me suicidal (especially my mother), I would actually love to see the shock when they realize that I was not kidding or "babbling some stupid things" and that I am well capable of killing myself if my life is not going like I want. They - especially my mother - are all about "getting used to it" and "making peace with that", but I am totally incapable of that when it comes to some things, and I am actually not even trying, because I am really allergic to the "getting used to it" and "making peace with that". I've always yelled back things like "I will never make peace with anything!" and I was right :) It is actually one of the reasons why I am not talking with them, I got to point where high buildings and similar structures were really tempting, so I just cut the communication.

Yikes :(