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Tarfeather

Doing sexual things with an asexual [TMI]

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Snao van der Cone

:(

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Telecaster68

Sorry to hear that. How you doing?

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Skullery Maid

What happened?

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Tarfeather

Really confused TBH. Today in the morning when we met she initiated a kiss, then we had a long-ish talk about everything. It got a little clearer what was going on with her being so distant; On the one hand she says that her feelings for me are mostly a result of how kind I am toward her and when we haven't seen each other for a while these feelings aren't as present. She also said she was so distant on the first day we met after the break because she'd expected me on Thursday, but I was sick on that day, so when we met at uni the next day it was unexpected to her (still expecting me to be sick) and it was hard for her to warm up to me.

She also said it's hard to tell what she feels for me when those feelings are somewhere "inbetween". And then I asked her whether she would be happier if we weren't in a relationship, and she said "probably yes".

So, I really don't want to push her into anything, or make her unhappy, which is why I then told her that we shouldn't be together anymore. She raised no objection.

But, uhm, I kind of really don't get how we're supposed to be just friends? Because she still wants to hold hands, she still wants to hug, she still obviously cares about me a whole lot. And I care about her a whole lot, too. I do want to be in a relationship with her. I just don't want to push it on her; So it's kind of awkward that she still treats me like a partner.

The annoying thing is that this has happened many times between us. It's like she has phases where she's like this, and then she has phases where she's the opposite, and they have little to do with what I actually did. In fact, looking back, these phases indeed always happen after we've spent a few weeks apart, and they last weeks to months. Yep, months to build up a connection, and then 1-2 weeks can wipe the slate clean.

And I think it's really stressful to her to have this expectation placed on her to suddenly "switch state" from focusing on other things in her life, to feeling connected to me. Especially when it's not all planned out in meticulous detail. And when I get irritated and hurt when she doesn't immediately respond positively to me, that kind of leads to a negative feedback loop.

...

Assuming this is somewhat accurate, what she actually needs is a slow "startup phase" for our relationship after we've been apart. Like, time where I'm just present but don't impose or expect anything. Which would explain that now that we've "broken up" and I've turned all those expectations down to friendship level, she's suddenly warming up to me again to an emotional connection that's not just friendship.

...

I kind of just want to be loved..

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Telecaster68

She might love you Tar, but she's never going to make you feel loved, from what you've said. It'll go on like this forever. Only you know if it's worth it.

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Serran

I'm sorry Tar. It sounds like an emotional roller coaster. :(

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Snao van der Cone

Individual things you want from individual people don't always help you build a more immaterial wholeness to your emotional needs, as much as you may love the person and desire to be with them. If anything still leaves you empty, you're not taking enough care of yourself and that's what you're most responsible for.

Maybe a break will work and maybe you can some day get back together with her for another shot at meeting the needs of both of you...but don't let her desire and willingness to hug you and hold hands mislead you into thinking you're in the same place. I bet it does feel really good to get any kind of affection from her - of course it would, that's why you're together to begin with - but if it falls short of what you need, it isn't enough to maintain a positive relationship.

Look after yourself first, is basically what I'm trying to say. She should do the same, because both of you need to be at your best with each other.

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Tarfeather

Yeah. The problem is, her mental issues seem to be really serious. As in, she genuinely can't do what she wants to do, because she's locked into her own distorted world (and she's aware of this). So what looks from my perspective like utter disrespect and wilful harm to me, from her perspective she doesn't even have a choice. And there's just nothing I can do. There's nothing any of her family can do. She's tried so many counselors and therapies and none of that helped her, none of these so-called professionals seem to even have any actual understanding of her problems. The only reason she hasn't destroyed herself by hungering herself to death is because she could set herself a goal in completing her education, and now that's literally all she can even live for.

Before the holiday she said to me, "I'm sad that I have to leave you for a few weeks, and I'm sad that I have to study so much. I would like to spend more time with you." I think it was just my utter arrogance that ever led me to believe that this meant she was getting better. I thought if she had found something else in this world that she cares about, other than her single-minded goal of her education, then this was the start to her getting more open, more social, more in touch with the world. But, of course her problems won't go away so easily. I can't cure her, no matter what I do for her.

She is very much worth all this to me. Not as a partner, but as a person. However, I don't know how much longer I can go on in this life without feeling love. And that's not her fault, that's just the general fact that nobody has, had or probably will have these kinds of feelings for me.

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Skullery Maid

There is something that I know wholeheartedly and with a stronger conviction than I could ever convey via post...

You will meet someone who is enthusiastic about your very existence. When you feel what it's like to get that from someone, you'll wonder how you ever tolerated what you're dealing with now. Every single day you spend trying to fix something with someone who will never give that to you, is another day you have no chance of meeting that person who will.

Having genuine romantic love and excitement is something amazingly redemptive. You're selling yourself short if you don't demand it.

What Tele said is true... nothing is ever going to change. And I think in your heart you probably know that the biggest reason she still wants to hold hands, etc, is that she has OCD and other issues which make change very, very scary for her. She may not be excited about you, but any change to your relationship is going to be hard for her to deal with. That's not love and that's not affection. That's habit. Don't accept habit as love, Tar... you deserve more. You can still love her as a person... who she is won't change just because you're not in a relationship... but now you can find someone who provides for you what she can't. If there's a way for you to see it as gaining an opportunity, maybe that will help?

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Tarfeather

What Tele said is true... nothing is ever going to change. And I think in your heart you probably know that the biggest reason she still wants to hold hands, etc, is that she has OCD and other issues which make change very, very scary for her. She may not be excited about you, but any change to your relationship is going to be hard for her to deal with. That's not love and that's not affection. That's habit. Don't accept habit as love, Tar... you deserve more. You can still love her as a person... who she is won't change just because you're not in a relationship... but now you can find someone who provides for you what she can't. If there's a way for you to see it as gaining an opportunity, maybe that will help?

You're wrong, though. It's not habit. In these last days whenever she made a decision to show me affection, I could almost feel her mind rattling. It's actually very obvious to me that she's currently fighting *against* her habit of withdrawing and hiding. And she always has since we got to know each other. Trying to overcome herself in order to be near me. She doesn't love me, but she cares about me a lot, and in a way that's not just habit. She sees something in me that she genuinely desires out of herself, but having someone depend on her is something very difficult for her to deal with.

Being single hasn't helped me with finding someone in the 10 years before I met her; I don't see why it would now. I've actually had an "above average" number of chances since being together with her, due to the fact that I'm now much less desperate for a relationship.. But it hasn't really helped me, other than to form friendships with females (which is good enough in itself, but still no reason for me to end my relationship with her).

So, yeah. If withdrawing from her would actually benefit me in any way, I might consider it. But currently, it doesn't. So the only reason would be if it benefits her. Which could be the case, I don't really know.

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Telecaster68

What Skulls said, a million times. Having someone look into your eyes with an unmistakable glint of 'you're f***ing wonderful' is.... heady. Shakespeare, Byron, Keats, Hal David, Oscar Hammerstein, couldn't nail it so there's no way we're going to. Cole Porter's You're The Tops gets close, for sheer joy and exuberance. And you'll be looking at them like that, and they won't run away. They'll dive into you instead.

Sorry, the Grumpy Old Gits Association have just phoned. They want my membership card back.

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Tarfeather

What Skulls said, a million times. Having someone look into your eyes with an unmistakable glint of 'you're f***ing wonderful' is.... heady. Shakespeare, Byron, Keats, Hal David, Oscar Hammerstein, couldn't nail it so there's no way we're going to. Cole Porter's You're The Tops gets close, for sheer joy and exuberance. And you'll be looking at them like that, and they won't run away. They'll dive into you instead.

Sorry, the Grumpy Old Gits Association have just phoned. They want my membership card back.

Hope they'll send me an invitation soon.

And I don't really feel it anymore at this point, to be honest. I've lived life. Surely, this relationship isn't / wasn't as good as what most people seem to experience, but it's the best thing that has ever happened to me. Having seen her smile, is not an experience I'd ever trade for the things you're describing, however great that may be. If the world ends now, I still will have had a better life than I would have hoped for a few years ago.

I'm grateful for this life. :wub:

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Skullery Maid

You say that now. Just wait.

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Tarfeather

You say that now. Just wait.

If ever a person comes along who's in any way enthusiastic about me, I'll be happy to eat my words. Until such time, my hands are tied either way, so I might as well not get my hopes up. :)

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Skullery Maid

Just remember that you're older, and as you move out of university and into employment, people's values change, their interests change... your opportunities will increase. I can't promise but I can almost promise.

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Snao van der Cone

Dude. I hope you find better reasons to feel fulfilled in your life than "Well at least I wasn't entirely unloved by others" because there is self-contained value in any existence. I know, I know, easier said than done; I still very frequently feel like whatever a lump of coal would shit out because I don't think I'm pleasing other people and that is a heavy and haunting feeling we can't just shake off. But when you're in a frame of mind where you can choose to think positively, think about what you've made for yourself rather than whose presence you've been blessed with.

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Tarfeather

Uhm, what I value is my own decision, thankyouverymuch. Nothing against people who like self-containment, but I don't for myself, and that's pretty much that.

Just remember that you're older, and as you move out of university and into employment, people's values change, their interests change... your opportunities will increase. I can't promise but I can almost promise.

Yeah, I kind of figure that if I focus on being properly successful in the thing that is both my passion and my career, that'll be as good a way as anything to increase my chances. But I'm planning on doing that either way, so it doesn't really matter.

Oh, and Skulls, I guess you were sort of maybe right about some of the things you said? I definitely think I had too much of a mindset of trying to "fix" her. But I don't know, I hope you understand that I'd never try to do such a thing if I didn't think she also wanted it. I thought she was getting better, and she was working together with me toward that. In reality, she wasn't getting better, and the things she did felt like a betrayal of our common goal, when in reality it was just her having the problems she has. That threw me a little, and I did say some nasty things trying to piece it together, but it's really not that I view her that way..

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Skullery Maid

My ex of 8 years is bipolar... I understand walking the line between not letting their illness run their lives vs. respecting their autonomy. I just think that when what we think is best for someone matches what we want from them, it's a good idea to take a step back. Untangling the two is nearly impossible, but that's just my opinion.

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Tarfeather

It's especially difficult to spot though if what you wish for them is to smile. :) Such an innocent wish, but I actually should know that wanting someone to be happy when they don't feel like being happy is doing them a disservice.

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