Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Tarfeather

Doing sexual things with an asexual [TMI]

Recommended Posts

Telecaster68
saying something like "Oh I must have forgotten" is not as painful as openly admitting that their glad sex is dropped. After all, a partner will be looking out for your feelings as well.

That works in the short term, but over the longer term, it becomes pretty obvious that either you're lying, or that you don't want to have sex with us and it's just not important to you, regardless of our needs. 'Forgetting' isn't actually much of a consolation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jade Cross

If you know the persons is an ace, thats kinda par for the course to put it in a way. You will know they are not interested in sex (those who arent of course) but that doesnt mean that they would not be willing to put up with it for you as a sexual because they know it makes you happy.

There are lots of cases where aces dont like sex but do it for their partners. They admit sex does nothing for them and would much preffer if it was dropped but their concious and knowledge of a unhappy partner will force them at times to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

Oh I know. But I've never understood this obliviousness claim - not so much about the sex, but partners' behaviour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jade Cross

Depends on the person. Some may do it because they genuinely dont understand it (not saying its all the cases but just incliding it to cover all possible reasons), others may take the "if I dont pay attention to it, it will go away" or "he"ll/she'll drop it", it may be a "this was established and Im not going to change it" and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

And the final three are pretty much saying ultimately they're not prepared to address something they know's a problem because it's too painful for them, even though they must be aware their partner is also hurting. I think the suspicion that this is what's going on winds up a lot of sexuals, especially when it's accompanied by 'forgetting' or other blatant avoidance tactics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jade Cross

You would also have to take into account what the sexual partner is willing to do. Otherwise it becomes a type of stalemate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

Or more accurately, willing to not do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jade Cross

Meaning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

Well, the sexual partner is willing - to put it mildly - to have sex. Since the asexual partner basically isn't, or at least isn't bothered one way or the other, the extent to which they (the sexual parter) compromises and not have sex is the important bit of what they're willing to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Autumn Season

I have the same confusion with my partner. And she even says she likes the closeness and happiness and all that... but for whatever reason it doesn't translate into wanting it. Well lol I guess the reason is asexuality. :P

But yeah, ultimately if she can't break out of her own mind, then she can't break out of her own mind. I personally have a hard time telling someone who isn't an objective observer to continue to push her, because admittedly you want to see certain things in her and don't want to see others... have you guys considered seeing a therapist to get an objective assessment of whether continuing to push her is good for her or bad for her? It's just far too coincidental, IMO, that what you want out of the relationship happens to coincide exactly with what you think is best for her. But, what does she think is best for her? Or what does an objective third party with psychological knowledge thinks is best for her? Quite frankly, you're too entangled in it to be a reliable judge of what is or isn't in her best interest. Again, that's just my opinion, but if she's left to be her and do as she likes and what she does is withdraw, then maybe that's a sign that that's what she is, how she's happiest, and what she wants in her life. My mom, she's always trying to make me go out to dinner. I hate going out to dinner, it gives me horrible anxiety. While I don't disagree that learning to kill that anxiety would ultimately be "good", I'm totally happy as I am and it irritates me to no end that she thinks she has a right to try to "fix" me. Even if it is helpful, it's not help I asked for or want, so it's best just left alone.

Not saying that this applies to your (Tars) gf, but this phrase made me think of a past situation of mine:

While I dated (let's call him) B, I generally became somebody I would call a "better person". I became more patient, tolerant, aware. My voice changed. I talked in a confident and kind way to everybody, regardless of how much I liked them or not. I guess I was even more emotionally stable.

At the same time all I wanted was to go back to my old life. I didn't want him to call me, I didn't want to meet him, I didn't want to be texted by him. I liked him, I still do, but I needed occasional alone-time and he didn't. The stress built up to such an extent that when we finally broke up, there was a sense of relief. Being lonely never felt better before. I actually enjoyed spending time with him more than I did with anyone else at that time. So the only problem really was that he had more energy through spending time with me and I had less. Meeting my friends drains me as well, even though I love them to bits. It's just that they don't want to occupy all of my time and that's the difference.

In the end I have to say that though spending time with my partner made me in a way "better", having a minimum amount of alone time is really what is best for me. And nobody except for me could have known this because only I feel my own feelings.

As an Ace she probably didn't notice the sudden emotional distance that was perceived when she was busy thinking about else entirely.

You've encapsulated something I've been thinking about. Not noticing absence of sex is one thing, which I understand. But from various posts from asexuals it seems like they don't notice the emotional distance either. Maybe it's because since they don't get that extra energy in closeness from sex, they don't notice when it's missing.

(Sorry to hijack the thread, Tar)

I notice. What I might not notice is when I am the one being distant, because it's such a natural state of mine, that it doesn't seem like a big deal. But the person important to me being distant? Red alert!

While I can see that something is off, I will not know what it is. Neither can I know whether I can or should do something about it. And then there is the most important question: Can I help the other to feel better? Or will the questioning only lead to more negative feelings?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68
While I can see that something is off, I will not know what it is. Neither can I know whether I can or should do something about it.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying all asexuals don't notice, some (like you) seem almost painfully, paralysingly aware of other people's moods.

When I notice something is 'off', I ask what it is, and I suppose it's the absence of that question that makes me think someone hasn't noticed. (As well as some posters saying they don't actually notice). So why not ask? If nothing else, it's showing you've noticed, and you care. In the absence of that, I would tend to assume the other person hasn't noticed, or doesn't care enough to ask.

And then there is the most important question: Can I help the other to feel better? Or will the questioning only lead to more negative feelings?

Asking in itself can make the other person feel better. Your second question implies to me that you do know what the problem is, because that's why going anywhere near it is too painful to countenance, especially if both partners know ultimately there's no easy solution.

Trouble is, not saying anything about it comes across as dismissing the other person's pain - either you haven't noticed, or you don't care.

Personally, even if I know there's no easy solution, at least having my pain acknowledged helps me know I'm cared about, which eases it. And I know that acknowledging the situation can be painful for asexuals - both sides are hurting here, but it often feels like asexuals are the only one able to opt out of it being in their face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jade Cross

Well, the sexual partner is willing - to put it mildly - to have sex. Since the asexual partner basically isn't, or at least isn't bothered one way or the other, the extent to which they (the sexual parter) compromises and not have sex is the important bit of what they're willing to do.

Saying that the sexual partner is willing to have sex makes no sense. The sexual partner wants sex, the asexual would be the one who would be willing to compromise (in the cases that it happens) to have sex for the sexual partners sake.

What the sexual partner may do is willing to have less sex. But the way its being phrase seems to demonize the aces while making the sexuals the ever victims and this isnt the case always.

Yes there are aces who will not compromise to having sex just as there are sexuals who will not compromise to not having sex or having less of it, in which case the relationship will suffer.

But neither side is the eternal victim nor demon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Telecaster68

I wasn't intending to demonise or victimise either side, just neutrally answer your question.

The nature of compromise is that both sides do it, and having sex, say, once a month rather than a couple of times a week can easily be just as much a compromise for a sexual as having sex at all is for a sexual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Autumn Season

When I notice something is 'off', I ask what it is, and I suppose it's the absence of that question that makes me think someone hasn't noticed. (As well as some posters saying they don't actually notice).

I see.

So why not ask? If nothing else, it's showing you've noticed, and you care. In the absence of that, I would tend to assume the other person hasn't noticed, or doesn't care enough to ask.

First of all it's not that I never ask. I just want to make this clear so that there will be no misunderstandings later.

Now in reply to your question:

There are some bad experiences I have with asking and being asked. From these experiences I know that not everyone likes being asked and even those who do don't always like it. Of course it's something completely different if you know for sure that the other would like to be asked.

Additionally there are times when I don't want to deal with negativity for my own sake. So when I feel like I would not be able to deal with the answer, I am less likely to ask. Unless I know that the other wants to be asked. But again, that's a different story. - I don't know what the answer will be, but I know it will be negative.

About the "doesn't care enough to ask"-part: It goes both ways. There are times when I "care too much" and this is why I don't ask. I just don't want to experience an emotional uproar. I know that the answer, whatever it will be, will affect me deeply. It's a direct response to seeing a beloved person suffer and understanding the extent of their suffering.

And then there is the most important question: Can I help the other to feel better? Or will the questioning only lead to more negative feelings?

Asking in itself can make the other person feel better. Your second question implies to me that you do know what the problem is, because that's why going anywhere near it is too painful to countenance, especially if both partners know ultimately there's no easy solution.

Trouble is, not saying anything about it comes across as dismissing the other person's pain - either you haven't noticed, or you don't care.

As I explained just now, I do not know the problem. This is not what I was talking about.

However if I knew that in one way or another I was the problem and I couldn't do anything about it, it certainly would not make me want to ask more. What I might do instead, is say that I'm sorry they're going through this. That's all. Because what else can I do? (My partner could still talk to me about the problem, but I would not ask.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Philip027
Thing is, human beings are mind readers to an extent. We read facial expressions, body language, tone of voice, context, changes from the norm and impute meaning to them.

Taking aside the obvious point that everyone is different in this regard, people are generally better at "reading" things that they themselves understand.

Asexuals are a lot more likely to not understand the sort of frustration that a sexual person might experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sally

Yeah, now that I think about it, that's kind of it.. She made so much progress, I was really proud of her. So proud and confident that I decided to just leave her be and allow her to do as she likes, fully trusting her. The result? Full regression into her previous patterns and problems.

The impression I get from the above is that she is your patient, not your partner or your equal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
m4rble

I've often been expected to pick up on social cues that I simply didn't understand. It made some of my friendships pretty awkward. This wasn't because I was trying to be malicious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jade Cross

I've often been expected to pick up on social cues that I simply didn't understand. It made some of my friendships pretty awkward. This wasn't because I was trying to be malicious.

This is a somewhat recurrent situation for me as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tarfeather

Yeah, now that I think about it, that's kind of it.. She made so much progress, I was really proud of her. So proud and confident that I decided to just leave her be and allow her to do as she likes, fully trusting her. The result? Full regression into her previous patterns and problems.

The impression I get from the above is that she is your patient, not your partner or your equal.

That impression is frankly irrelevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sally

Yeah, now that I think about it, that's kind of it.. She made so much progress, I was really proud of her. So proud and confident that I decided to just leave her be and allow her to do as she likes, fully trusting her. The result? Full regression into her previous patterns and problems.

The impression I get from the above is that she is your patient, not your partner or your equal.

That impression is frankly irrelevant.

Hardly. I kind of doubt anyone would want their partner to talk about them in that way. "Allow her to do as she likes..."? Yeesh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
closetPonyfan

Actually what I meant was when the ace person is, or seems to be (from the non-ace persons point of view) withdrawn or distant, they don't notice that it bothers their non-ace partner. And it's probably because they don't notice that they are acting distant or withdrawn. Though, of you communicate to them non-verbally they may pick up that something is bothering you, I would expect them to have no clue why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tarfeather

Yeah, now that I think about it, that's kind of it.. She made so much progress, I was really proud of her. So proud and confident that I decided to just leave her be and allow her to do as she likes, fully trusting her. The result? Full regression into her previous patterns and problems.

The impression I get from the above is that she is your patient, not your partner or your equal.

That impression is frankly irrelevant.

Hardly. I kind of doubt anyone would want their partner to talk about them in that way. "Allow her to do as she likes..."? Yeesh.

I'm saying it's irrelevant as it's inaccurate. And now presumptuous. Do you know my partner? Didn't think so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
closetPonyfan

Yeah, now that I think about it, that's kind of it.. She made so much progress, I was really proud of her. So proud and confident that I decided to just leave her be and allow her to do as she likes, fully trusting her. The result? Full regression into her previous patterns and problems.

The impression I get from the above is that she is your patient, not your partner or your equal.

That impression is frankly irrelevant.

Hardly. I kind of doubt anyone would want their partner to talk about them in that way. "Allow her to do as she likes..."? Yeesh.

Lol Sally you're over thinking it. Sorry, but I think he just mean that your impression if the situation isn't correct, and it has no bearing on the problem or the outcome.

Have you ever been the partner of someone with a diagnosed mental illness? It does become very much like something of a Dr. /patient relationship in the one sense that one person is constantly monitoring the health (either physical or mental) of the other. It doesn't mean that they aren't still equals. And most of the time, neither partner even knows that it's happening.

My wife has sever anxiety, and often lapses into depression. I'm no doctor for sure, but I have learned to keep an eye on things like, is she taking her meds? Did she just take a double dose? Her mom just called her, was it a good or bad call? Does she seem to be OK enough to take out the trash? Etc. And in every decision I make, the first thing I do is seek to determine how it will affect her mental state. I don't know Tar or his gf but based on how he worded what he said, I'd expect it's a similar situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skullery Maid

That's not the situation, though. The situation is that Tar's girlfriend is happy being aromantic and asexual, but he's decided it's in her best interest to push her on those things. She's not asked to be treated like a patient and to my knowledge she's never agreed that there should be a long term plan to turn her sexual. From what I can see, she continues to say she's not into it and he continues to believe it's in her best interest to keep pushing. In no way is this a "monitoring her meds" situation. It's someone unilaterally deciding who their partner should be and then smooshing her into this predetermined mold. A sexual partner who just decides it's in an asexual's best interest to keep having sex, because the sexual has decided her issue is just fear? What? She has never said she thinks she's sexual with repulsion issues and wants to work on it... unless I missed something, none of this "therapy" would be occurring if it wasn't for Tar's needs.

Now tell me, Pony, is your partner's "therapy" completely wrapped up in YOUR needs? Are you the only person who diagnosed them? Is your partner's therapy administered by you and does it involve satisfying your romantic and sexual desires? No, probably not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
closetPonyfan

TLDR you are being presumptuous and rude. Tarfeather is a good person as I'm sure you will conclude if you can drop the bias you have formed, and re-read some of his many posts, not just in the forum but others. He isn't a therapist trying to fix her asexuality. They are, as a couple, having discussions and sessions to experiment to determine what she likes and doesn't like, and exploring what level of physical intimacy she is OK with. If you read his previous posts, he isn't pushing this on her. She, knowing full well that it isn't expected of her at all, is taking the initiative, when in the mood, to agree to experimenting and finding what she likes or doesn't.

To respond to your Unprovoked attack on me: She's been diagnosed by two psychiatrist and is on a prescription for anxiety and for depression. She is not in therapy, and I am not a therapist for her. Neither me nor Tar are trying to "fix" anyone's asexuality. I am simply her partner through life. And she has some problems dealing with the world at times, so I'm there for her. It has nothing to do with my sexual needs or desires, as they don't even play a role in determining what she wants or needs. In fact to the contrary, the more she learns about herself, and is learning to cope with the wold, it's becoming increasingly likely that she'll leave me for someone who makes her truly happy, instead of me standing in because I'm the only person who doesn't trigger her anxiety and absolutely terrify her.

That's not the situation, though. The situation is that Tar's girlfriend is happy being aromantic and asexual, but he's decided it's in her best interest to push her on those things. She's not asked to be treated like a patient and to my knowledge she's never agreed that there should be a long term plan to turn her sexual. From what I can see, she continues to say she's not into it and he continues to believe it's in her best interest to keep pushing. In no way is this a "monitoring her meds" situation.

"to your knowledge" being the important bit in there. He's never mentioned that she was aromantic so I'm not sure where that came from. He didn't decide to push her to become sexual. They, as a couple do, communicated about their relationship. Yes, they are incompatible in terms of sexual orientation, but they agreed that they want to make the relationship work, and they know that it will mean compromise. From his earlier posts on other threads, Tar has mentioned that they are comfortable talking about sex together, and she's fully aware that there is no pressure or expectation, she can say no at anytime for any reason. But because she loves him, and wants to try to make him happy too, knowing he's not asexual, she wants to try to find what she is or isn't OK with. This is about her wanting to do this for him, not him pushing her into anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Autumn Season

Now tell me, Pony, is your partner's "therapy" completely wrapped up in YOUR needs? Are you the only person who diagnosed them? Is your partner's therapy administered by you and does it involve satisfying your romantic and sexual desires? No, probably not.

To respond to your Unprovoked attack on me: She's been diagnosed by two psychiatrist and is on a prescription for anxiety and for depression. She is not in therapy, and I am not a therapist for her. Neither me nor Tar are trying to "fix" anyone's asexuality. I am simply her partner through life. And she has some problems dealing with the world at times, so I'm there for her. It has nothing to do with my sexual needs or desires, as they don't even play a role in determining what she wants or needs. In fact to the contrary, the more she learns about herself, and is learning to cope with the wold, it's becoming increasingly likely that she'll leave me for someone who makes her truly happy, instead of me standing in because I'm the only person who doesn't trigger her anxiety and absolutely terrify her.

I don't think Skulls attacked you. At the end of her post she wrote "No, probably not". In other words she says that the "therapy" is NOT about your needs, that you are NOT the only person who diagnosed your partner. She most probably wanted to show you why she thinks yours and Tar's situation are not comparable.

He's never mentioned that she was aromantic so I'm not sure where that came from.

I'm pretty sure he did, just not in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
closetPonyfan

I see. Well if that is the case then I sincerely apologize. It was almost 4 am when I wrote that post,and I shouldn't have lashed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tarfeather

That's not the situation, though. The situation is that Tar's girlfriend is happy being aromantic and asexual, but he's decided it's in her best interest to push her on those things. She's not asked to be treated like a patient and to my knowledge she's never agreed that there should be a long term plan to turn her sexual. From what I can see, she continues to say she's not into it and he continues to believe it's in her best interest to keep pushing. In no way is this a "monitoring her meds" situation. It's someone unilaterally deciding who their partner should be and then smooshing her into this predetermined mold. A sexual partner who just decides it's in an asexual's best interest to keep having sex, because the sexual has decided her issue is just fear? What? She has never said she thinks she's sexual with repulsion issues and wants to work on it... unless I missed something, none of this "therapy" would be occurring if it wasn't for Tar's needs.

Now tell me, Pony, is your partner's "therapy" completely wrapped up in YOUR needs? Are you the only person who diagnosed them? Is your partner's therapy administered by you and does it involve satisfying your romantic and sexual desires? No, probably not.

You know, I really learned a lot from our disagreements in the past. I had hoped the same was true for you. Apparently that is not so.

Don't treat your guesses as truth. It is incredibly disrespectful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skullery Maid

That's not the situation, though. The situation is that Tar's girlfriend is happy being aromantic and asexual, but he's decided it's in her best interest to push her on those things. She's not asked to be treated like a patient and to my knowledge she's never agreed that there should be a long term plan to turn her sexual. From what I can see, she continues to say she's not into it and he continues to believe it's in her best interest to keep pushing. In no way is this a "monitoring her meds" situation.

"to your knowledge" being the important bit in there. He's never mentioned that she was aromantic so I'm not sure where that came from. He didn't decide to push her to become sexual. They, as a couple do, communicated about their relationship. Yes, they are incompatible in terms of sexual orientation, but they agreed that they want to make the relationship work, and they know that it will mean compromise. From his earlier posts on other threads, Tar has mentioned that they are comfortable talking about sex together, and she's fully aware that there is no pressure or expectation, she can say no at anytime for any reason. But because she loves him, and wants to try to make him happy too, knowing he's not asexual, she wants to try to find what she is or isn't OK with. This is about her wanting to do this for him, not him pushing her into anything.

If you read the posts (years of posts), you'll see that most of the stuff is coming from his perspective and his voice. He thinks these things about his partner... she's not actually said them. In fact, she often says the opposite but he decides, unilaterally, to change the characterization because he knows better. For example, she said their last experience was neutral at best, but he decided that she's not right, and that it was actually positive for her, despite her saying otherwise and despite her vanishing for weeks afterward. That's not respecting one's partner, that's taking what they say, feel, and want and wholesale replacing it with one's own perception and desires. She says she's asexual and aromantic and would be happy that way. Whether or not taking someone who doesn't seem like they're at all interested, and someone who says that at best sex is a neutral experience, and continuing for years to "treat" them is an acceptable way to interact with one's partner, I don't know. I wouldn't do it, personally. That's not two totally healthy autonomous people coming to a conclusion together about what they both want. Note that the girlfriend never said "this is great, there's no pressure and I can engage sexually with you when I feel like it"... that's Tar's voice, not hers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tarfeather

Well, it is over. And not because of the sexual stuff (unless you want to claim that you know her better than she knows herself). So, it's been a good experience, but I guess this is it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...