Insecurities in a Mixed Relationship

[Tarfeather]

Is it a good or bad idea for a sexual person to specifically state when they want sex? On one hand: a lot of asexual people will often say that they are oblivious to their partners desires, and they had no idea it had been a month or two since they last had sex. On the other hamd: most asexuals have anxiety triggered by the mention of their partners needs.

Do any sexuals have experience on how to do this correctly or if it can be done? Do any asexuals have suggestions for how their partners can gently remind them without triggering negative feelings?

That's the source of your problem, then. The solution with me and my partner is that I can talk as much about sex as I want, and she always can say 'no' to it. So talking about my needs doesn't "trigger" her, as she knows she's not expected to do anything about it.

[Guest]

Is it a good or bad idea for a sexual person to specifically state when they want sex? On one hand: a lot of asexual people will often say that they are oblivious to their partners desires, and they had no idea it had been a month or two since they last had sex. On the other hamd: most asexuals have anxiety triggered by the mention of their partners needs.

Do any sexuals have experience on how to do this correctly or if it can be done? Do any asexuals have suggestions for how their partners can gently remind them without triggering negative feelings?

In my relationships, it's always varied how people ask.

My preferred ways are:

1) To kinda let me know ahead of time that they would like it to happen soon.

2) To not initiate very often, but to just "naturally" do it, like anyone would with kissing and etc escalating. I am OK with that if it's not every. single. time. My exes who did that every week or so, never bothered me, as long as we could have plenty of the other stuff without sex.

Though, it varies by asexual. Some want to kinda have advance warning so they can get in their mental space for sex. Some prefer it to just be said plainly "Hey, lets have sex". Some prefer some sort of schedule. Some prefer a signal, that way they don't have to explicitly talk about it (ya know, like... sex days are when the calendar has a S on it that day, or when my partner says the word fluffle, or something) but still have a signal they can look for. It's best to just ask your specific partner how they prefer to handle the compromise, if they are willing to compromise. The only time it's pressuring is when you constantly ask, or have been told no and keep asking anyway.

Not asking doesn't clear asexual anxiety about their partner's needs. I have some days sat in my room and not even gotten a glass of water for hours and hours after I was thirsty, because I knew walking in front of him would risk sparking sex. We are aware sex is something they want, even when they aren't asking. It's an ever present anxiety when we're feeling really not up to it. Which is why some prefer it to only be on advanced notice, so they don't have to worry about every action they do causing sex. Some are oblivious to how OFTEN it's wanted, or how stressful it can be to not get it (remember, people are different - my ex was like once every two weeks, so to not get it didn't stress him out very much at all, getting it too often stressed him out more... but others are stressed out after just a few days, so you kinda have to let the person you're with know what you want), but unless you are not asking and not mentioning it and acting all fine and dandy about it... they are probably aware you want it, at least on some level. It's just... extremely weird to initiate for some of us, even if we know it'd be appreciated. It feels unnatural to me.

Of course, if you do not have a compromise in place, first asking if your asexual partner is even willing to have sex is a good idea. That discussion can take days, weeks or even months to have, because there are a lot of heavy feelings associated with it. On both sides. But, yes of course the sexual should state their needs if they are feeling unhappy.

[Tarfeather]

Serran, you seem to be talking more about sex repulsion /aversion than asexuality. I don't see why someone who's not sex repulsed / averse should have an issue talking about the subject.

EDIT: Well, if I think about it, having sex just for the other would make you sex repulsed / averse naturally. So I stand by my earlier point that compromise should only be done when the asexual doesn't have an issue with it.

[Guest]

Serran, you seem to be talking more about sex repulsion /aversion than asexuality. I don't see why someone who's not sex repulsed / averse should have an issue talking about the subject.

I'm neither repulsed, nor averse, so no I am not. I'm talking about how hard it is to hear that everything you can offer, everything you are, is not enough. To hear how much you are hurting the person you love, just by being yourself. To hear that they need more out of you than you can naturally give, so you have to decide if you can offer something that is not something you want at all, yet is very personal and supposed to be very intimate. To have all the guilt you've pushed on yourself over not being able to give them what they want reinforced by hearing the pain in your partner's voice as they tell you what they need to be happy in the relationship.

The compromise talk can be extremely hard, on both sides. The sexual has to hear the hurtful I do not desire you that way. The asexual has to hear the hurtful I desire more from you than you want to give. Then they have to come to a decision together over what to do about it. There is a reason so many asexuals and sexuals alike come to the forums for support when they begin that talk. Just look at the ones on the boards now "Maybe I just need to try more... I am so scared... I feel like such an awful wife..." etc, etc. And, of course, we have all read the pain and anguish from the sexuals over hearing how their partner can never desire them sexually. And when two sides are hurting, it can come out in even more painful ways than was intended when they try to discuss it. I've suggested to multiple couples to take a break when they start feeling too bad and come back when they can have cooler heads, cause their compromise talks ended up in arguments and slinging hurtful words because of how much they were hurting from just hearing the truth of how each feels.

How a compromise forms, well, it depends on both people. And what they are OK doing or not doing. Or how stressful they find compromising. And often the first compromise is not the final one, because it ends up not working on one side or the other. So it has to be renegotiated.

Of course, this varies. Not all asexuals will be bothered by it. Not all sexuals will. But, it often ends up being a quite hard conversation to have. And even after you have it... being asked for sex can be stressful unless done a certain way, for some. Even non-repulsed people. Even asexuals that can enjoy it have expressed how stressful their partner's needs become at times.

[Telecaster68]

I'd mirror everything Serran says from the sexual side, and I think with good communication most of that stuff can be worked through. But there was a point where even raising the issue would make my wife too anxious to actually process anything else. That took a judicious mixture of pushing and patience to get past.

[aceghost]

I'm talking about how hard it is to hear that everything you can offer, everything you are, is not enough. To hear how much you are hurting the person you love, just by being yourself. To hear that they need more out of you than you can naturally give, so you have to decide if you can offer something that is not something you want at all, yet is very personal and supposed to be very intimate. To have all the guilt you've pushed on yourself over not being able to give them what they want reinforced by hearing the pain in your partner's voice as they tell you what they need to be happy in the relationship.

10,000 times this.

[Tarfeather]

I'm talking about how hard it is to hear that everything you can offer, everything you are, is not enough. To hear how much you are hurting the person you love, just by being yourself. To hear that they need more out of you than you can naturally give, so you have to decide if you can offer something that is not something you want at all, yet is very personal and supposed to be very intimate. To have all the guilt you've pushed on yourself over not being able to give them what they want reinforced by hearing the pain in your partner's voice as they tell you what they need to be happy in the relationship.

Yeah, that'd be shitty expectations on your partner's side. -_- If you're sexual and not over this kind of stuff yet, you really don't have to bother with thinking about "how to talk about this with my partner". The way you even think about it won't work.

[Guest]

I'm talking about how hard it is to hear that everything you can offer, everything you are, is not enough. To hear how much you are hurting the person you love, just by being yourself. To hear that they need more out of you than you can naturally give, so you have to decide if you can offer something that is not something you want at all, yet is very personal and supposed to be very intimate. To have all the guilt you've pushed on yourself over not being able to give them what they want reinforced by hearing the pain in your partner's voice as they tell you what they need to be happy in the relationship.

Yeah, that'd be shitty expectations on your partner's side. -_- If you're sexual and not over this kind of stuff yet, you really don't have to bother with thinking about "how to talk about this with my partner". The way you even think about it won't work.

Most sexuals in mixed relationships do expect sex, especially when they did not know of asexuality at the get go. I don't think most of them really want to, or will, get over it.

[Telecaster68]

I don't think most of them really want to, or will, get over it.

Any more than asexuals will get over not wanting to, no.

The 'not wanting to' is interesting though. Rationally, I can see how if I was offered a magic pill to remove any libido, sex drive, attraction, desire, whatever AVEN's calling it this week, it would be a monumentally sensible thing to take it. (And about half the time, I'm trying to think myself into that kind of state of mind - thankyou neuroplasticity). But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take it. It would feel like having a lobotomy, losing part of myself.

[Guest]

I don't think most of them really want to, or will, get over it.

Any more than asexuals will get over not wanting to, no.

The 'not wanting to' is interesting though. Rationally, I can see how if I was offered a magic pill to remove any libido, sex drive, attraction, desire, whatever AVEN's calling it this week, it would be a monumentally sensible thing to take it. (And about half the time, I'm trying to think myself into that kind of state of mind - thankyou neuroplasticity). But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take it. It would feel like having a lobotomy, losing part of myself.

I'm pretty sure a lot would not take it if it was available. Many have lost that drive through illness and the like and miss it terribly, to the point of having therapy and support groups about it. I don't see people lining up to take a part of their personality away willingly.

[nanogretchen4]

Yeah, what if I could just identify s reasonably suitable person using a checklist, then take a pill that would make me attracted to them? Then I could have a whole relationship based on a medically induced emotion...Nope. Too creepy.

[Telecaster68]

Many have lost that drive through illness and the like and miss it terribly, to the point of having therapy and support groups about it. I don't see people lining up to take a part of their personality away willingly.

In a weird and slightly perverse way, even that would be better, as you haven't lost it entirely because you're aware of the loss. Even, if the magic pill would put me in the state of not missing it and being perfectly happy, I'm pretty certain I still wouldn't. I guess it's like the serenity people can get from valium - in the moment, they're fine, but they're missing out on the sharp edges (good and bad) of experience.

[Tarfeather]

I'm talking about how hard it is to hear that everything you can offer, everything you are, is not enough. To hear how much you are hurting the person you love, just by being yourself. To hear that they need more out of you than you can naturally give, so you have to decide if you can offer something that is not something you want at all, yet is very personal and supposed to be very intimate. To have all the guilt you've pushed on yourself over not being able to give them what they want reinforced by hearing the pain in your partner's voice as they tell you what they need to be happy in the relationship.

Yeah, that'd be shitty expectations on your partner's side. -_- If you're sexual and not over this kind of stuff yet, you really don't have to bother with thinking about "how to talk about this with my partner". The way you even think about it won't work.

Most sexuals in mixed relationships do expect sex, especially when they did not know of asexuality at the get go. I don't think most of them really want to, or will, get over it.

Oh, I get struggle and uncertainty. But if you honestly believe that your partner is "not enough" as long as they don't desire sex with you, then you really have no place being with that person. Staying with someone with the expectation that they'll change is not really a good way to treat someone.

I don't think most of them really want to, or will, get over it.

Any more than asexuals will get over not wanting to, no.

The 'not wanting to' is interesting though. Rationally, I can see how if I was offered a magic pill to remove any libido, sex drive, attraction, desire, whatever AVEN's calling it this week, it would be a monumentally sensible thing to take it. (And about half the time, I'm trying to think myself into that kind of state of mind - thankyou neuroplasticity). But I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take it. It would feel like having a lobotomy, losing part of myself.

I used to want such a pill, back when my sexual desires felt overwhelming. But in a way, these desires are kind of like a wild beast.. If you tame it, it can work in your favour. The rare times that I do something somewhat sexual with my girlfriend, the wild energies involved actually "reach" her in a way, and she to some extent enjoys it. In fact, we've always been closer emotionally after such "sessions". So it's really not something that detracts value from our relationship, even if it's true that she would find it much more convenient if I didn't have those desires (but she's the type of person who would prefer to be an emotionless machine who does nothing but study anyway..).

As a side note, I've heard from many asexuals who would gladly take that magic pill to become sexual, and I myself certainly would do it if it were the only way to make my relationship work.

[Telecaster68]

But if you honestly believe that your partner is "not enough" as long as they don't desire sex with you,

You can believe they're enough and still be in pain from absence of desire.

[Tarfeather]

But if you honestly believe that your partner is "not enough" as long as they don't desire sex with you,

You can believe they're enough and still be in pain from absence of desire.

Agreed. If you accept your partner in principle, however, they have no reason to feel bad about their lack of desire. In this case, conversations can be used to communicate this acceptance, instead of giving the other the feeling that they're not accepted.

[Guest]

But if you honestly believe that your partner is "not enough" as long as they don't desire sex with you,

You can believe they're enough and still be in pain from absence of desire.

Agreed. If you accept your partner in principle, however, they have no reason to feel bad about their lack of desire. In this case, conversations can be used to communicate this acceptance, instead of giving the other the feeling that they're not accepted.

See, I wouldn't want a compromise discussion to be about acceptance or trying to make me feel like they think I am enough as I am. Because it would feel like a lie. "I accept you, I love you for exactly who you are... but I still kinda wish you'd desire me sexually, it makes me sad you can't. And I still kinda need you to have sex with me to be happy." ... I much prefer respecting each others differences, because I don't feel like acceptance is something I will ever feel from a sexual partner. They can respect a difference without understanding or accepting it, that's all I require.

[Tarfeather]

See, I wouldn't want a compromise discussion to be about acceptance or trying to make me feel like they think I am enough as I am. Because it would feel like a lie. "I accept you, I love you for exactly who you are... but I still kinda wish you'd desire me sexually, it makes me sad you can't. And I still kinda need you to have sex with me to be happy." ... I much prefer respecting each others differences, because I don't feel like acceptance is something I will ever feel from a sexual partner. They can respect a difference without understanding or accepting it, that's all I require.

It kind of sounds like you're deciding for others what they can and cannot accept..

[Guest]

See, I wouldn't want a compromise discussion to be about acceptance or trying to make me feel like they think I am enough as I am. Because it would feel like a lie. "I accept you, I love you for exactly who you are... but I still kinda wish you'd desire me sexually, it makes me sad you can't. And I still kinda need you to have sex with me to be happy." ... I much prefer respecting each others differences, because I don't feel like acceptance is something I will ever feel from a sexual partner. They can respect a difference without understanding or accepting it, that's all I require.

It kind of sounds like you're deciding for others what they can and cannot accept..

Mmm, no. I am deciding for me what feels like acceptance. If being who I am makes a person sad or depressed, I will never feel accepted by them. If they wish I could be different, I will never feel accepted by them. If the only way for them to be happy is for me to, perhaps not feel differently, but act against how I feel, I will never feel accepted by that. But, I don't require feeling accepted, either.

[closetPonyfan]

One thing I keep struggling with lately is that my wife and I, due to a conservative /Christian background and parenting techniques, agreed to not have sex until we got married. But about two years in she realized she's asexual. And from there, she's been going through a lot of self discovery, and allowing herself to be free from her parents rules. Now I support her in everything she adventures to do, and I really love to see her happy, and opening up to the world (though I myself still can't do that) but one if the things she's discovering is that she really really thinks girls are super cute.

She tells me that she thinks their cute in the way I think cats are cute. She wants to look at them and hug them, and put them in her pocket, but she doesn't want sex with them. And I can totally understand that but doesn't that mean, more than just I'm a sexual person and she's an Ace, but I'm heterosexual, and she's homo-romantic? So what is this marriage then? She tries to reassure me saying "love is a choice, and I chose you. I think your just as cute as the lesbians, and I'm happy with our relationship so I have no reason to seek anything else. I'm yours and that's that." which helps to hear, but then she turns right around and posts on tumbler; "I would totally be in support of a gay envy parade. Like dang, If I knew what sexual attraction was I'd be all over those cute girls"

And wth is this "love is a choice". No, at least for me it isn't. And if I could have chosen I wouldn't have fallen in love with a closeted homo-asexual. But I did, and I love her to death, and it kills me that she can't feel the same for me, but that chuck over there with the dark hair, pixie cut, and shoulder blades tattoo is really dang cute"

[Guest]

Thinking girls are cute doesn't mean she finds them romantically attractive. Sounds like she just likes how they look. You don't want to romance a kitten, right? But you still think they're cute? And if she says you're just as cute, she probably is saying she finds you aesthetically pleasing as well.

... as for the choice thing, well. You'd have to ask her what she means by it.

[Lady Girl]

She may mean that love as a feeling isn't the full picture. Love as action is a choice...you choose to act on the feelings you have for someone (and you usually express that love in your own way).

[closetPonyfan]

I'm fairly certain, based on how well I know her after all these years, that she may or may not feel any chemical reactions going on, causing emotional or physiological responses, which she might call love. But what she means is similar to the mindset of "you can't pick your family but you can pick your friends" and choosing to pick someone and be a partner with them in every sense, is the essence of love. And I totally get that viewpoint. I suppose I was ranting a bit earlier (sorry) and really my frustration then was just the same old gripe about how I get this very strong physical and emotional desire to be with her, and as an Ace she doesn't feel that in the same way (or perhaps at all)

I guess I just keep finding new emotional sides if this issue, and it hurts just as bad every time. But then I realize it's nothing new, and I still love her just the same, and she loves me too. This issue is strictly about the fact that she doesn't desire sex.

A lot of sexuals will say it's not about the sex persay, but the lack (or very little) of physical intimacy, and the emotional hollowness of any intimacy that does occur. Maybe a good way for sexual people to think about it is: Consider that anything you do which leads to not just physical but also emotional arousal, exists in your partners mind within the realm of sex, or sexual things. Therefor as an asexual, they also don't specifically desire that, or at least not for the same physical/emotional reason that your getting from it.

Does that sound about right, to an Asexual person?

[closetPonyfan]

So I asked a while ago about how, for two people in a monogamous relationship, do you distinguish a romantic relationship from a friendly relationship, when your romantic partner is asexual. And as always it boiled down to COMMUNICATION. Lol, sure enough the wisdom of AVEN proved to be deep again. My wife and I discussed everything from strict, dark, easy to see boundary lines to what a crush/squish is and what to do with them.

Which was a good exercise to do. It turns out we both avoid forming any kind of relationship with someone we have a crush on because we are scared the other might get jealous, or that the recipient of the crush would take things too far, or that we ourselves might push for too much.

Sorry if this post doesn't make any sense I'm feeling a bit scattered right now. But we came to an agreement to allow ourselves to seek out friendships with people we have crushes on, so long as we are always honest with each other about how and who we're spending our time with. And obviously no crossing any hard lines, such as kissing, or intimately touching the person (duh) but we couldn't figure out how to define the emotional boundary lines.

I said all that to say this. There's a person at work I've always thought was kinda cute, and we have a preset seating arrangement in the office which put me right next to her. And we both worked a 10 hour shifts, on the weekends, as the latest shift of the day. So we spend pretty much 3 hours per night alone in the office just talking. In the past I had specifically avoided this becoming anything more than small talk with a co-worker, but since the discussion with my wife I've decided to let it see where it might go.

TLDR: she's a really cool person and we're good friends. But now I'm actually scared because I found myself admitting to myself that I do want more with her. I'm certain that if I had met this person in college in place of my wife, it'd be she snoreing beside me right now (or more likely we would both still be up eating ramen or cold pizza and playing WoW.) So I guess my point is, I was right, and exactly what I feared would happen did happen, in that I think I might be falling for her.

Yet at the same time this is happening, my wife's been in a super good mood for a couple of weeks straight, and the frequency and quality if sex has gone up really well. So in terms of the ups and downs cycle of our relationship we're quite high up, and have been for a while. I can't help but wonder if a large part of my good mood at least, is tied into having this person I can call a friend, and discuss all kinds of things that we couldn't before. So I don't want to end the friendship, but I also don't want to cause any problems within my marriage. Is it possible that keeping both is a good thing, or is that a lie I'm telling myself which eventually leads to coloring an affair to look like a grey area instead of the "way over the line" that it really is.

This probably sounds like a journal entry, and probably nobody cares. But sorry, not sorry. I like to have a place to put my thoughts and don't currently have a journal or therapist.

[aceghost]

I'd say you are definitely in dangerous territory, and if I were in your wife's position I would want it disclosed, so you can discuss together what to do about it. Maybe even get a therapist for the two of you before proceeding any further.

Because in my case we did not get that pre-emptive support, my wife's friendship lead to a physical relationship (with my naive consent), and more or less as soon as she felt what a "real" sexual connection with someone felt like, our relationship was toast and relegated to a platonic one. We are currently working through a divorce as a result.

Not saying that will necessarily happen to you guys, and also not necessarily saying that's a bad thing to find someone you're more compatible with, just saying that it sounds like you've already hit a point where your relationship has irrevocably changed, and any further steps need to be taken gingerly while things are still within both of your control.

[Tarfeather]

@closetPonyfan: You're probably poly-capable, which isn't a bad thing. I've noticed the same thing that my friendships with other women can actually have a positive impact on my relationship. It makes sense; If you stop expecting things from someone they don't want to give you and focus on the things you can share, then that relationship will overall be more enjoyable. The best way to deal with this is not to fear it, but to embrace it. Tell your wife and explore with her how much she's okay with it.

[Guest]

You are in dangerous territory, if you feel you are falling for this friend. It sounds like you tend more towards polyamorous affections, in that you can love two people at the same time. You and your wife agreed to the friends with crushes thing, as long as you were both honest. IMO, falling for someone, would be one of the things that would go under the "how we're spending our time" category. Did you two discuss what you wanted done if one or the other felt they were developing more than just a crush for the friend when you discussed the opening up boundaries? If not, I feel like another discussion on boundaries to clarify them more is needed. It could just be a fleeting crush, or it could become real affection to rival how you feel for your wife. Either way, imo, it's something to discuss. It's not that you did anything wrong, you can't control how you feel and you both agreed to opening up the crush boundaries. It's just, to have a fully open and honest relationship, disclosure is needed. Your wife may end up being OK as long as it doesn't go into the physical realm, for all you know.

[heartbroken]

"Is it a good or bad idea for a sexual person to specifically state when they want sex? On one hand: a lot of asexual people will often say that they are oblivious to their partners desires, and they had no idea it had been a month or two since they last had sex. On the other hamd: most asexuals have anxiety triggered by the mention of their partners needs.

Do any sexuals have experience on how to do this correctly or if it can be done? Do any asexuals have suggestions for how their partners can gently remind them without triggering negative feelings?"

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I have been married for 28 years to an asexual man. The only time we have sex is if I beg, literally. This started on our wedding night. I have asked him to put a reminder on his phone, so I don't have to do this every other month but he "forgets". It is humiliating to say the least. Sometimes we will go months and months because I don't want to see the look on his face when I ask or the lack of desire in his eyes. He will not try to satisfy me in other ways. I have shut down sexually along with every other feeling a normal human being has. I can't go on like this any longer, it is like dying a slow, agonizing death. I have asked for either an open marriage or a divorce.

[Lady Girl]

It works for some couples and not for others. It sounds like you are ready to make a change though and move on from this relationship.

[Telecaster68]

"Is it a good or bad idea for a sexual person to specifically state when they want sex? On one hand: a lot of asexual people will often say that they are oblivious to their partners desires, and they had no idea it had been a month or two since they last had sex. On the other hamd: most asexuals have anxiety triggered by the mention of their partners needs.

Do any sexuals have experience on how to do this correctly or if it can be done? Do any asexuals have suggestions for how their partners can gently remind them without triggering negative feelings?"

Nope. My experience with the Serran's advance warning approach was that it got a sort of tepid acknowledgement that was actually a brush off (though I think what was happening was that even a mild, casual verbal mention would trigger enough stress that my wife just couldn't bring herself to not keep putting it off) and then nothing at all happened. She does initiate - pretty much every four weeks, on Sunday morning, after about two hours of completely non-sexual interaction, and the sex then is ten minutes of luke-warm missionary. Even that can be aborted by the slightest disruption (like the cat jumping on the bed, for example). I've yet to figure out a way to get past this.

For me, any suggestions on alternatives to try would be the single biggest thing to improve my situation at this point.

[closetPonyfan]

[TMI]

My wife used to be very repulsed by masturbation. She did herself maybe 1-3 times a year, and felt gross during and even guilty after. (still not sure why she did it then) but after multiple discussions she's become much more comfortable with it. She still doesn't, but now she's comfortable with being supportive and "helping" when I do. It's not the same as sex, but it is still a very good emotional connection, or at least it feels like it to me. And I think she's happy to have found a good compromise for us. And every now and then, she wants to be rubbed while I'm doing it, and that usually leads to sex.