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Trying to figure out sex drive/craving for sex


booksoversex

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Okay, since I am still trying to figure things out... A lot of people talk about sex drive and that it differs from libido. I saw someone somewhere compare sex drive to having cravings for certain food.

So: Question. Let's use a beer analogy here. I love beer. I frequently want beer, particularly during summer, if I am stressed, sometimes if I am really tired of work, during the weekend etc. It is often not so much about the actual beer itself as the things I connect with it: Friends, summer, free time, etc. Sometimes I don't think about beer at all, and then I pass a pub which is open, throw a glance inside and suddenly start thinking about how nice it is to go to the pub, and how good beer tastes, especially an ice cold beer on a warm summer's day... And then I can go around daydreaming about it. (Okay, using this example makes me sound like an alcoholic now, but I know I'm not, so I don't really care.)

Is this what sex drive feels for most sexuals? It is something which is mostly dormant, which can suddenly come to the surface as a fleeting thought, and which is stronger certain times of year or of the week (times you mentally connect to sex)? Is it as though sometimes you don't think of sex at all, and then you pass a couple making out or someone you feel attracted to, and suddenly you start thinking about how nice it is to make out and have sex, how good it feels, especially in this or that setting, and then it becomes a daydream/fantasy. Sometimes it's not necessarily the actual sex at all, but maybe the fact that it makes you think of a specific person etc. Is this an accurate way to describe it? I realize this probably varies between individuals, but still.

Or is it completely different? Is it more like a pure physical thing, like how you need to scratch a mosquito bite or how your bladder can fill up during the day and you go around knowing you need to pee, although it is not something which needs to be resolved right away?

Sorry if this makes no sense. I am really just trying to understand it. :)

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For me, it can be either, or a combination of both.

The beer version happens more if I'm sexually satisfied - if I'm having sex regularly, there's no background hum of 'sex' in my mind, but walking down the street passing lots of attractive beers at least makes the thought 'mmmm nice beer'. It's no more than that. Then if I know I'm going to meet my lover later, it's like anticipating a visit to the pub. I might get focussed on doing something else in the meantime and not think of it, but it could easily pass through my mind in a vaguely pleasurable way, backed up with the anticipation and desire I know I'm going to sate later. The external stimulus could be other people, making out, or just attractive, or thinking of my lover (in which case the desire is very much about her, not just a general horniness).

If I'm more sexually frustrated, it can build up to the point where I have a constant mental hum of wanting a 'beer'. Again, if I'm concentrating on something else, it goes away, but I'm more distractable, and if I drift into a reverie about it, it can translate into low level physical arousal. I don't necessarily need to do anything about it, but I could.

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Then how do you know that the solution for this arousal is sex, not masturbation? Or, yo phrase it another way: does this frustration and low-level arousal you feel go away if you masturbate?

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Everyone is different... For some sex drive/libido (I consider them one and the same: the desire for sexual release but others will of course argue with this) is near constant, relieved for only short periods of time, but for others (like me) it's triggered by something in particular. It can also kinda build up... for days/weeks it's ok and just a niggling feeling at the back of your mind that can often be ignored, but eventually it becomes front and centre, and it's difficult to function as attempts to ignore it just don't work any longer.

I go for long periods of time (years) where I don't find anyone attractive and in those times my sex drive is completely nonexistent. Out of site, out of mind. It takes me a while to find someone attractive and all of a sudden, my sex drive kicks in with incredible force, and it's difficult to satisfy it. Almost anything to do with my (long distance) partner will trigger it too: simply hearing their voice, let alone talking with them on the phone, seeing perfectly innocent videos, reading emails, thinking about being with them... It's crazy sometimes :lol:

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Then how do you know that the solution for this arousal is sex, not masturbation? Or, yo phrase it another way: does this frustration and low-level arousal you feel go away if you masturbate?

I don't feel I need a solution - it's pleasurable, not a problem.

Masturbation deals with it in a kind of decaff, sugar free way, on a purely physical level. The satisfaction is the connection and spark of sharing it with another human being, preferably (wayyyy preferably) someone you're close to.

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nanogretchen4

I'm demisexual. At any given point in my life I am attracted to either zero people or one person. If I am sexually attracted to someone I also have a very strong emotional and mental bond with them, so sexual attraction is one important ingredient in that mix but it doesn't exist by itself. I think it's interesting that your craving for beer is all tied up with friendship, summer, free time, etc. Do you really want the beer, or do you really want all that other stuff? Well, probably you do actually want the beer, but then is it satisfying out of context? I'm saying this as someone who drinks very little and has no interest in getting drunk. Beer is just a beverage I drink a few times per year.

But back to sex. Yes, if I know in advance that I am going to have sex with my partner at a certain time I will get excited in anticipation. Other than that I tend to initiate sex "accidentally" a lot, i.e. I really wanted to cuddle but my partner has a higher sex drive than me. I'm fine if it leads to sex but that wasn't my point. Or I really want to connect with my partner, and if my libido kicks in I may want to do that by having sex whereas otherwise I might have wanted to go for a walk and have a really intense conversation instead. It's very unlikely to be a visually trigger for me, and the sex is indeed mixed with a lot of other stuff like the beer commercial.

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As you may know, libido refers to sex and masturbation, but sex-drive refers strictly to partnered sex.

Some consider masturbation sex, most don't.

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As you may know, libido refers to sex and masturbation, but sex-drive refers strictly to partnered sex.

Only on AVEN.

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As you may know, libido refers to sex and masturbation, but sex-drive refers strictly to partnered sex.

Only on AVEN.

No, factually. A man named Cull created Drive Reduction Theory (which is not practiced by psychologists today but taught in history of the subject) which created the term sex-drive. In this theory he puts sex as a biological need to survive (i.e. reproduction). Frued sees this and creates his own term; libido, and says it refers to both masturbation and sex. The reason they're used interchangeably today is because the allosexual majority can, and not every one of them knows masturbation isn't done for the desire of partnered sex. Alot of dictionaries define both as a desire for (partnered) sex though. Also, idk if this became known with the term and that's why the previous sentence is so, but despite Frued initially saying his term was done for pleasure, he eventually changed that to a desire of partnered sex. Despite this being his theory, many other psychologists had their own theory on why libido was done, so his root reasonings may or may not hold with the term. (Sex is not a drive because drives have a required minimum; calories, water, etc., but sex does not. Even if someone were to put a One on that required counter, it wouldn't be accurate because child conception doesn't happen every time.)

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Ok ok... Star. First. We've "talked" about this before... you're pretty derogatory toward "allos" because you seem to think we're stupid. We're not stupid. I really, really hate when you talk about how ya'll understand things that we don't (especially when those things are stuff we experience and you don't). So seriously, I'm trying to ask you as nicely as a Skullery can ask... will you please, please stop with the sweeping generalizations about allos and their inability to understand?

Because you know what? NO ONE OFF OF AVEN UNDERSTANDS THIS STUFF. It's not like asexuals wander onto AVEN and have some instinctual understanding of all the ridiculously academic line-drawing and term-creating. AVEN does not equal asexuality, AVENites do not equal all asexuals, and AVEN terminology does not equal the truth. This is one tiny little realm in the scope of an entire world of experiences, understandings, culture, and study. So seriously, please knock it off with the generalizations.

Now then.

I read your above post to say "one guy said this one thing this one time and I really like it so I'm going to consider it gospel despite having no actual experiences on the subject". Some random dude who is no longer considered viable is most certainly not evidence that you're right about this sex drive/ libido thing.

Is this what sex drive feels for most sexuals? It is something which is mostly dormant, which can suddenly come to the surface as a fleeting thought, and which is stronger certain times of year or of the week (times you mentally connect to sex)? Is it as though sometimes you don't think of sex at all, and then you pass a couple making out or someone you feel attracted to, and suddenly you start thinking about how nice it is to make out and have sex, how good it feels, especially in this or that setting, and then it becomes a daydream/fantasy. Sometimes it's not necessarily the actual sex at all, but maybe the fact that it makes you think of a specific person etc. Is this an accurate way to describe it? I realize this probably varies between individuals, but still.

This is the best description of sexual attraction that I've heard... but we could call it sex drive, sure. And yeah, I'm sure it varies wildly between people, but for me, yes, this is exactly accurate.

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nanogretchen4

I actually think libido in the sense that AVEN uses it could be a useful term for sexuals in relationships with other sexuals. I'm nearly certain that it's totally average for sexuals to at least occasionally prefer masturbation over sex even when sex is conveniently available with someone they would normally have sex with. I mean, possibly not if their partner is asexual and sex is almost never available, but otherwise I think it's common. So, libido and sex drive are probably two different things regardless of orientation.

It is very common for two sexuals to have unequal libidos, and to have to negotiate sexual compromise that possibly differs only in degree from what posters in mixed relationships describe. Sometimes one partner may need to explain that although they are willing to have sex and may even have a mental and emotional desire for sex, they have no real physical urge for it right now and may want to choose the actual activities accordingly. Or they may be trying to explain that they actually enjoyed the sex they just had although possibly on a less physical level than their partner. Even two sexuals are likely to be having really different subjective experiences during sex, and I think a greater degree of understanding and acceptance about this could only be a good thing.

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I said two things about allosexuals and neither were generalizations. I'm not saying allosexuals are stupid, I'm saying a fact that not all sexual people know masturbation isn't done for a desire of partnered sex. I've seen this confusion from allosexuals before. And the reason the two became synonymous was because the majority of people can half ways use them as such. Now I'm going to use a hated term, but bare with it. It's like saying you don't expect Lithsexual and Fraysexual to eventually become full and not half ways synonyms when one means loss of interest because of reciprocation and the other is open to reasons. Fact is the terms are different. Even if you don't consider the creators of terms valid/psychology terms can validly change by the public's misconception, what about many dictionaries defining sex-drive, if not also libido, as a desire for (partnered) sex. (sex-drive more frequently being defined that way than libido)

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I'm not saying allosexuals are stupid, I'm saying a fact that not all sexual people know masturbation isn't done for a desire of partnered sex. I've recieved this confusion from allosexuals before.

No, you say lots of things... allos can't separate attractions (which, no one can unless they're on AVEN, etc, because it's just not something that's done, and that's true of the asexuals AND the sexuals who come here), you say allos are terrible at understanding... many things.

And honestly, why differentiate? How many asexuals do you think are born with some inherent knowledge of this stuff? Any? Or do you think it's maybe because you learned this crap on AVEN that you know it, and if other people also spent time on AVEN (even if you weren't here), they'd learn it too? And that maybe differentiating between allos and asexuals is completely useless because it's the exposure to new material that's relevant and not whether one wants or does not want to orgasm with another human?

I've received confusion about every topic under the sun from asexuals (or at least an asexual)... does that give me leave to run around saying "asexuals don't understand..."? No, of course not.

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I'm nearly certain that it's totally average for sexuals to at least occasionally prefer masturbation over sex even when sex is conveniently available with someone they would normally have sex with.
Depends on ‘available’. If everything in the relationship was hunky dory and you have a partner upstairs gagging for it, having a wank instead would be very unlikely to me. If you wanted some hand action, their hand would be far nicer. If the partner’s not around though, or ill or something, fair enough.
If it was happening though, I’d suspect porn addiction, friction in the relationship, laziness.... something not good. And that’s in line with why sexuals often get so wound up about asexuals prefering masturbation over having sex with them.

It is very common for two sexuals to have unequal libidos

Pretty much inevitable.

and to have to negotiate sexual compromise that possibly differs only in degree from what posters in mixed relationships describe.
There’s a difference in principle though, not just degree - different libidos would mean the negotiation was ‘I’d enjoy having sex with you when....’. Sexual/asexual is based on ‘I could tolerate having sex with you when...’ at best. Markedly different things for both sides.

Even two sexuals are likely to be having really different subjective experiences during sex
To the extent that everybody’s subjective experience is different (though we can’t even know that, either), yes. But again, by definition, sexuals will be having in sex out of innate desire, at least partly, mostly. Asexuals never will.

a greater degree of understanding and acceptance about this could only be a good thing.
Always.
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I'm nearly certain that it's totally average for sexuals to at least occasionally prefer masturbation over sex even when sex is conveniently available with someone they would normally have sex with.
Depends on ‘available’. If everything in the relationship was hunky dory and you have a partner upstairs gagging for it, having a wank instead would be very unlikely to me. If you wanted some hand action, their hand would be far nicer. If the partner’s not around though, or ill or something, fair enough.
If it was happening though, I’d suspect porn addiction, friction in the relationship, laziness.... something not good. And that’s in line with why sexuals often get so wound up about asexuals prefering masturbation over having sex with them.

See, I completely disagree with this. I have a very high sex drive but sometimes I don't want to have sex. 9 times out of 10 it probably is laziness, but I don't consider that "something not good". Other people are... other people. They require energy and attention and reciprocation, and sometimes I'm tired and cranky and don't feel like dealing with that, but it'd still be nice to get off so I can sleep. It's just a personality difference, IMO, between you and I. Not everything comes down to orientation.

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It's just a personality difference, IMO, between you and I. Not everything comes down to orientation.

I agree completely. And I don't think it's a problem unless one side is consistently choosing a wank rather than their partner, and turning down their partner simultaneously, because it's probably a sign of something else going on,

For instance... if you were getting started, your partner realised what you were doing and offered a freebie (I know, it's a hypothetical) because... well... it's a nice thing to do, and you turned them down and packed up the goods and waited till they were out of the way before starting again. Persistently.

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For instance... if you were getting started, your partner realised what you were doing and offered a freebie (I know, it's a hypothetical) because... well... it's a nice thing to do, and you turned them down and packed up the goods and waited till they were out of the way before starting again. Persistently.

I'd never turn that down :lol:

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The two terms were already separating before i came to AVEN.

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I'd never turn that down

I was about to type 'who would?', and then remembered where I was...

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The two terms were already separated before i came to AVEN.

I understand and I'm not actually arguing the fact - I think they're typically used interchangeably but I don't think they need to be. I don't care about that. I'm asking you, out of respect, to try not to do the "allos don't understand" and "allos aren't good at", etc etc etc. Because, as I think I've argued quite proficiently here, it's not an allo thing, it's a "have you been exposed to AVEN terminology" thing.

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ok, i will watch my wording

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So... Sex drive and sexual attraction is the same? I thought sexual attraction was more geared towards one person, while sex drive is more general, an inclination/drive for sex.

And it might be the same as libido, but drive sounds more directed at someone IMO. And asexual with a sex drive sounds weird, while asexual with a libido sounds easier to understand. But it might be because of the distinction we've gotten used to here.

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nanogretchen4

Sexual attraction is about who you desire sex with. Sex drive is how often and how urgently you desire sex. Libido is similar to sex drive except it includes masturbation in addition to or in place of partnered sex.

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Sexual attraction is the mental impulse to have sex with a specific person and sex-drive is just the desire to have sex in general. Drive is a synonym of desire; so it literally translates to sex desire/desire for partnered sex. I wouldn't be against libido and sex-drive being synonyms if sex-drive didn't have an obvious meaning and direct reference to sex. Few people think of masturbation as sex so it directly refers to partnered sex, which is also confirmed in the words history and many dictionaries. (however, many dictionaries also define libido as a desire for sex, so a bit of a problem)

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My feelings of sexual attraction fluctuate a lot. I can go a while feeling nothing then all of a sudden have some attraction. I'm not really sure how to describe it, it's almost as if some quality in the person I'm looking at changes between when I do and don't have sexual attraction. I wouldn't really describe it as an itch because I don't really feel the need to do anything to resolve it. My sexual attraction is often separate from my libido. It would be kind of like seeing a tasty chocolate bar but not feeling hungry. Other times I have a Libido but no sexual attraction. My libido is much like an itch that I feel the need to care of, but this usually isn't connected to the idea of partnered sex. For me feeling sexual attraction and having a libido rarely if ever happen at the same time and I don't really feel much of a connection between the two.

Edit: To be honest I'm not sure if what I'm describing is actually sexual attraction or just finding people ascetically pleasing at certain times. I don't feel like I want to have sex when experiencing what I described as sexual attraction above. I'm not really sure if there is a solid way to distinguish between the two.

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Dictionaries define sexual attraction as "a pull/allure to be sexual (have sex) with someone"

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This is sort of a general reply to the OP and to other point brought up in this thread. I am super tired so hopefully this makes at least some sense.

From what I have read previously, ''libido'' is the hormones/neuropeptides etc that cause arousal.. Someone with unhealthy hormone levels/very low libido does not experience arousal often or a need to masturbate. Sex drive is the drive to seek partnered sex as a result of having a libido (though I do know there are people who lose their libido through illness or whatever, yet still desire that partnered sexual connection, they just can't act on it, which leads me to conclude that the underlying desire is separate from both libido and drive). As far as I can tell these two terms (libido and sex drive) were coined and were generally defined by people who had no knowledge of asexuality, so they are always automatically assumed to go hand in hand with each other (one and the same thing pretty much). I'm not saying that the original people who defined the terms wouldn't be able to tell them apart if they tried, but it probably never crossed their minds to do so because there was no one saying ''wait I experience this but not this!''

Yet an asexual can have a high libido (an abundance of the hormones that cause arousal .. I get aroused often for no reason, like I might be standing there doing the dishes, and uh oh time for a change of underwear haha eeeew Pan why do you say stuff like that lol) ANYWAY, I just have no desire to connect sexually with other people, no matter how aroused I am, or even if I am experiencing sexual attraction (which I explained in great detail in this post http://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/128969-questions-for-sexuals/?p=1061497802).. I have experienced what I believe to be full-blown sexual attraction (a desire to connect sexually with a specific person) twice, but I still had no actual desire or need to have sex with the people I was sexually attracted to.

I am not sayings sexual people are incapable of experiencing all these things (libido/drive/sexual attraction) separately, just that they often all come so intricately woven together that if you weren't intentionally trying to pic them apart, they could often all just seem to coincide (though obviously most -all?- sexual people know specifically if they are experiencing sexual attraction or not, it's more the libido and drive I am referring to) hence why so many dictionaries seem to define them all so similarly.

I think there is the innate, underlying desire for partnered sexual contact that all sexual people have in common. They may desire sex in general or may experience sexual attraction and desire sex with a specific person, or they may desire sex with a specific person without being sexually attracted to that person, all sorts of reasons.. but whatever it is that causes the underlying desire (probably biology?), there is a drive that causes them want to seek sex out/desire sex under certain circumstances. I think the beer analogy is probably quite a good one to describe how the underlying desire feels/manifests, but I would think the drive is more a specific pull to act (scratch an itch as you said) as opposed to just having the itch there and present and something that you're thinking about but not acting on just yet. Having the itch present, sometimes not even noticeable, is the underlying desire. Needing to scratch is the drive. Does that make sense?. It does seem quite accurate to me (though as I don't actually have the desire or the drive I could well just be talking out my arse) .. And I don't think sexual attraction has a whole lot to do with anything (other than sometimes you might feel sexual attraction for someone and that might set your itch to needing a scratching) Sexual attraction is just something that some people experience some of the time, to varying degrees.

See here:

In men and women alike, libido is directly linked to androgen hormones (namely testosterone). As men have approximately 40 times as much testosterone as women, they are thought to have a more intense sexual drive; however, more aggressive behavior is demonstrated as well. Such disparity in testosterone levels also exists in other mammals, hence most species show a bias towards more pronounced sexual drive and aggression of males when compared to females.

The exact role of peptides in sexual drive and arousal is still not certain, partly because of their many roles and sites of action. Still, oxytocin – a neuropeptide also dubbed “bonding hormone” – is important in both sexual and parental behavior. Besides regulating for sexual drive, complex oxytocin neural pathways control penile erection and sexual motivation in general.

Dopamine plays a strong role in libido and motivation. This hormone and neurotransmitter is one of the key players in the human body. Steroid hormones set the stage for increased dopamine synthesis and its release during periods of enhanced sexual responding, resulting in an increased sexual drive.

http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Libido.aspx

Notice how they seem to be using the terms interchangeably as though they are one and the same.. But if you have someone who has a high libido (and is even tested by a doctor and proven to have a high libido) yet has no interest in having sex and no drive to seek sex out (even when their libido is peaking) then sex drive and libido must definitely be different things?.. Or would something else account for the disparity? hmmmm

So... Sex drive and sexual attraction is the same? I thought sexual attraction was more geared towards one person, while sex drive is more general, an inclination/drive for sex.

And it might be the same as libido, but drive sounds more directed at someone IMO. And asexual with a sex drive sounds weird, while asexual with a libido sounds easier to understand. But it might be because of the distinction we've gotten used to here.

I don't personally believe sexual attraction and sex drive are the same, no. Someone can definitely have a sex drive without experiencing sexual attraction, and I know for me personally I experienced sexual attraction minus any drive for sex. As I explained I believe these terms often seem the same in dictionary definition etc because they were coined by people who never knew about or took into consideration asexuality.. Without being aware of asexuality I don't even think it would cross your mind to think that someone may have a high libido, yet no drive for partnered sex. And obviously someone can still have a strong drive for partnered sex without feeling sexually attracted to anyone (so as I always say, I don't think sexual attraction really comes into this.. it's just one expression of sexuality experienced by some people some of the time)

For instance... if you were getting started, your partner realised what you were doing and offered a freebie (I know, it's a hypothetical) because... well... it's a nice thing to do, and you turned them down and packed up the goods and waited till they were out of the way before starting again. Persistently.

I'd never turn that down :lol:

My first thought would be ''oh my God leave me alone I am busy'' haha, I'd definitely wait until they are out :P

...

Anyway, just spreading my opinions around as usual (I pretty much say the same things in every post, I am sure others must have noticed by now lol) .. I am not a sexual person so could well be wrong about everything, but I believe there is a good chance the original experts defining these terms were not 100% accurate themselves, as they were trying to define things with no knowledge of asexuality.

But yeah, that's my two cents. I am aware of the possibility that my opinions may have been influenced by things I have read on AVEN, however I do like to believe that I formed my opinions autonomously after my own careful consideration and my own experience with (many) sexual people.. However that could just be me being a narcissist. I am possibly just a walking AVEN dictionary without even knowing it haha.

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I'm nearly certain that it's totally average for sexuals to at least occasionally prefer masturbation over sex even when sex is conveniently available with someone they would normally have sex with.

Depends on ‘available’. If everything in the relationship was hunky dory and you have a partner upstairs gagging for it, having a wank instead would be very unlikely to me. If you wanted some hand action, their hand would be far nicer. If the partner’s not around though, or ill or something, fair enough.

If it was happening though, I’d suspect porn addiction, friction in the relationship, laziness.... something not good. And that’s in line with why sexuals often get so wound up about asexuals prefering masturbation over having sex with them.

See, I completely disagree with this. I have a very high sex drive but sometimes I don't want to have sex. 9 times out of 10 it probably is laziness, but I don't consider that "something not good". Other people are... other people. They require energy and attention and reciprocation, and sometimes I'm tired and cranky and don't feel like dealing with that, but it'd still be nice to get off so I can sleep. It's just a personality difference, IMO, between you and I. Not everything comes down to orientation.

Back in the relationship with my ex, I've had probably 40 or so opportunities to have sex instead of masturbation. I had masturbation every time. Now that's probably because I wasn't attracted to her as much as I would have liked, but.. I think that's the point of this discussion? Asexuals aren't attracted sexually to their partner.

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I'm still trying to figure all this out so bear with me here. I probably have an average Libido or desire to masturbate. Because of this I used to think it was impossible that I could be asexual before I discovered Aven . Additionally, I've had crushes on a few friends of mine but from what I understand that was due to platonic and/or romantic attraction. I think I have genuinely experienced sexual attraction toward other people but only very rarely and with a lot of time between. Sometimes I look at people and they look very attractive to me and it feels different from the way they usually look. I don't feel an urge to have sex with them when I experience this, but since it was different from how I usually saw people I assumed it was sexual attraction. Strangely, I've only experienced this with people I know in real life rather than people I see in TV and photographs. For this reason, I always thought it was strange that people would saw they felt sexually attracted to people they had only seen on TV or in photographs. I feel like I like the way light bounces off of someone's face when I'm talking to them, the way it seems to have a certain shine. I don't like the idea of partnered sex or even open mouthed kissing for that matter, but sometimes I have fantasies about passionate touching or hugging.

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nanogretchen4

That sounds totally normal, especially if you are fairly young and haven't dated much. I think that if you have a chance to date someone you have a crush on and try hugging and touching that person, there's about a 99% chance you will eventually want to go further than that.

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