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The 2015 Ace Community Census


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Done!

It was difficult to find this survey and this is the first time I've taken it since I joined AVEN in 2004. I think there's an issue with that because it can't be that representative if not that many people are a aware of it to even take it. Not sure how to remedy that situation, however, still wanted to point it out as a relevant issue.

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Done!

It was difficult to find this survey and this is the first time I've taken it since I joined AVEN in 2004. I think there's an issue with that because it can't be that representative if not that many people are a aware of it to even take it. Not sure how to remedy that situation, however, still wanted to point it out as a relevant issue.

Yeah, that reminded me that there wasn't any site wide banners. I'll bring that up to the team. However, we did post it on all social media sites we know of. Do you have any other suggestions?

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Done!

It was difficult to find this survey and this is the first time I've taken it since I joined AVEN in 2004. I think there's an issue with that because it can't be that representative if not that many people are a aware of it to even take it. Not sure how to remedy that situation, however, still wanted to point it out as a relevant issue.

Yeah, that reminded me that there wasn't any site wide banners. I'll bring that up to the team. However, we did post it on all social media sites we know of. Do you have any other suggestions?

No, but thanks!

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Hey everyone, I'm a member of the AVEN Survey Team, and I can respond to some of the questions that have popped up. Regardless of whether or not I reply to you, we do see all comments, and keep extensive notes on how the survey could be improved.

These are informal responses, and may not represent the views of the rest of the Survey Team.

One comment: in the question re whom we have come out to, there is no category for children - adult or otherwise. Is there a perception that older aces just "don't tell"? :lol:

We try to limit the length of the survey. Relatively few respondents have children, so it would just be an extra question that most would skip.

I took the survey but I must point out that "gay" and "lesbian" are not necessarily sexual orientations and are not necessarily "homosexual", which I believe is what you were trying to get at. Wording on stuff like this is very important. You can be both gay and asexual since the term gay doesn't in and of itself specify the type of attraction involved. Just because it's been linked to homosexuality doesn't mean they're the same thing, it just means historically sexual and romantic orientations were considered the same thing.

The survey gives you the option of saying you're both asexual and gay/lesbian. Gay/lesbian are included in a list sexual orientation labels, but you are still free to select them even if you use them, for instance, as romantic orientation labels.

I didn't like the way they linked having a high libido with having a ''high drive for partnered sexual gratification or solo satisfaction'' as though 1) masturbation and partnered sex are two sides of the same coin, they are not at all and 2) as though having a high libido means you have a high drive to seek sexual gratification one way or another.

I'm not going to quote all your comments, but I'll respond briefly to these two points.

1) Remember that this question is also being answered by non-asexual people. If a non-asexual person has a high drive for "partnered sexual gratification", but feels "solo satisfaction" is unnecessary because they have a partner, I would want them to say they have high libido. You could possibly get more information by separating the two things, but IMO it would not be the most interesting use of an extra question.

2) I think you (and Plectrophenax) make good points about the definition of libido, since many people could have a high drive for masturbation that is not based on sexual gratification. I'll put it in our notes for next year.

Note, however, that whenever we define a term, at least some people will disagree with it. And if we don't define a term, people complain that they don't know what definition we want. Whenever a definition is given, you should use that definition for purposes of the survey.

We also have a question asking about frequency of masturbation. If there are a lot of people who have low or no drive for sexual gratification, but have a high frequency of masturbation, that would indicate to me that a lot of people are driven by something other than a need for sexual gratification.

Does the question

At what age did you first identify *to others* as asexual, gray-A, demisexual, or some equivalent term?

include digital platforms like AVEN, or is it limited to 'real-life' exchanges?

Hmmm... I would say yes, on the rule that when things are ambiguous you should interpret them literally. But perhaps in the future we should instead ask when people identified to people that they know offline. I'll put this in my notes.

How interested are you in any kink, bdsm, or fetish activities (including non-sexual ones)?

Does this imply concrete interest [actively practicing/wanting to practice/fantasising about/etc these things] as well as more theoretical interest [facination/detached curiosity/intrigue/etc], or is it meant to cover only one of those? It seems like both is applicable, but at the same time that strikes me as potentially hurting the evaluation of the question, since unless the two types of interests coincide, the implications behind each of them are fairly different.

[Also, what is a 'non-sexual' fetish? Couldn't this be anything that is of sufficient 'interest'? I have a rather strong liking for mint tea, does that make me have a 'mint-tea-fetish'? And if it does, do I really respond to this question with a 'very interested'? Now that would skewer the results. I'm almost certain this isn't what is meant, but I have never heard the word 'fetish' used in a non-sexual context, though it is frequently used in a merely loosely sexual context.]

"Interest" here means interest in participating, fantasizing, etc., and not just academic interest.

There are lots of aces involved in the kink community because they are interested in non-sexual kinks. One of the places we advertise the survey to is FetLife.

The "Sexual History and Sexual Violence" section is very well handled , and it's great that there is an option to directly skip it.
But, given the nature of the questions, how much sense does it make for someone with no sexual history [including sexual violence] to respond to these? Since every question in this section pertains to sexual activities, I would merely be responding in the negative by default. Is that the idea? I feel like this, too, could easily lead to a distortion of the results [of course I have never experienced sex for XYZ reasons or in a XYZ way, since I've never experienced sex in the first place]. Wouldn't it make sense to make this section exclusive to people with a sexual history [and the willingness to answer, of course]?

Negative responses are very important, since we'd like to estimate the rate of sexual violence. Also note that people who have experienced sexual violence (e.g. childhood sexual abuse) may or may not consider that to be part of their "sexual history".

I would appreciate if the question

Do you consider yourself sex-positive, sex-neutral or sex-negative, when it comes to sex in general?

would have a specific option for 'sex-apathetic', since it's not quite the same as 'sex-neutral'. Neutrality implies a positive stance [neutrality] while apathy does not. I'm Swiss, I should know ^_^
[Alternately, if it is considered the same by most, the 'sex-neutral' option could be specified to read 'sex-neutral or -apathetic'. If that isn't ideal either, then an 'other' option where one can elaborate would also be appreciated.]

If you think that your position is distinct from any of the given options, you should select "None of the above, or unsure". If there are a significant number of these responses, we'll develop more questions to deal with it.

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Nice survey overall. I tend to be very cautious about wording and am never quite sure about certain implications. Normally I just have to wing it, but in this case I'll allow myself to ask a few, perhaps pedantic, questions before submitting [some questions I'd rather only respond to when I'm sure about the spirit in which it was asked]. Suggestions come free of charge.

I'll send this to the E-Mail helpfully provided, but it may serve a purpose being posted openly as well. Though, considering most people seem to be able to answer the questions just fine, I may just be particulary dense when it comes to interpreting them.

Thanks! I'll answer your questions. I'm one of the members of the survey team, but as a disclaimer, I'm just speaking for myself and my views don't necessarily represent the survey team as a whole.

Does the question

At what age did you first identify *to others* as asexual, gray-A, demisexual, or some equivalent term?

include digital platforms like AVEN, or is it limited to 'real-life' exchanges?

In either case, I feel as though a personal outing to specific people is implied [as opposed to indirectly shared profile info on an anonymous forum], especially considering the following question. But the wording is ambiguous enough that, if AVEN was the first place where I used the label 'asexual' in relation to myself in such a way that other people [strangers to me] could take notice of that, my age at that time would be the correct response. Could someone clarify, please?

I can see how that would be ambiguous, but that question can include real-life exchanges or online. Making a distinction between being out to others offline, or only online makes sense.

The same goes for the "friends" or "aquaintances" options in the next question. Perhaps a distinction between digital and 'real-life' would make sense, since it's quite a different story whether or not one is 'out' via digital or personal means [or personal and impersonal means in general]? Just a thought.

I could also see how that would be an important distinction. Someone may be out to only friends or acquaintances they have online, but not their friends or acquaintances in-person.

I would also advocate for posing the question

How strong is your sex drive/libido?

in such a way that enquires about masturbation [or even partnered sex] in a purely detached arousal-context seperately from these activities done for the purpose of "sexual gratification". There is a difference there, and while the question is worded clearly [inquiring specifically about gratification], the interpretation thereof might be based on the assumption that people equate any form of sexual activity [including apathetic ones] with "sexual gratification". Even if this is clear to a majority of people, a more precice distinction is always favourable whenever possible, and a more specific additional question can do nothing but increase the utility of the census. Though this, too, is just a suggestion.

Likewise, the question

If you have ever masturbated, how frequently do you do so?

could be expanded to include the motivation for masturbation [relief, boredom, sexual gratification, notions of normalcy, etc].

Those are useful distinctions and I agree they should be added next time. Feedback about the survey, including clarifying questions, will be shared with the rest of the survey team.

The "Sexual History and Sexual Violence" section is very well handled , and it's great that there is an option to directly skip it.

But, given the nature of the questions, how much sense does it make for someone with no sexual history [including sexual violence] to respond to these? Since every question in this section pertains to sexual activities, I would merely be responding in the negative by default. Is that the idea? I feel like this, too, could easily lead to a distortion of the results [of course I have never experienced sex for XYZ reasons or in a XYZ way, since I've never experienced sex in the first place]. Wouldn't it make sense to make this section exclusive to people with a sexual history [and the willingness to answer, of course]?

That section is optional, but if someone has no history of sexual violence, or any sexual history, it would be more helpful data-wise to respond by answering no to the questions, in order to more accurately show the percentage who do have a sexual history of any kind vs. the percentage that don't since non-responses can't be counted in the analysis.

EDIT: I edited this statement, after the implication of people without sexual histories deliberately skipping those questions could have was pointed out. I shouldn't have rushed this.

I would appreciate if the question

Do you consider yourself sex-positive, sex-neutral or sex-negative, when it comes to sex in general?

would have a specific option for 'sex-apathetic', since it's not quite the same as 'sex-neutral'. Neutrality implies a positive stance [neutrality] while apathy does not. I'm Swiss, I should know ^_^

[Alternately, if it is considered the same by most, the 'sex-neutral' option could be specified to read 'sex-neutral or -apathetic'. If that isn't ideal either, then an 'other' option where one can elaborate would also be appreciated.]

I thought neutrality could imply either believing that sex isn't inherently good or bad (though I've seen people identify as sex-positive or sex-negative also feel this way), or are indifferent towards sex in general, or in general don't feel strongly about it positively or negatively. I can see how sex-apathetic could be its own stance though, but it is up to you how to answer that question.

Overall, very well put-together survey, though. Thank you for your efforts.

Thanks! :D

Done!

It was difficult to find this survey and this is the first time I've taken it since I joined AVEN in 2004. I think there's an issue with that because it can't be that representative if not that many people are a aware of it to even take it. Not sure how to remedy that situation, however, still wanted to point it out as a relevant issue.

It has been shared in several social media sites, but a banner at the top of the forums has been added to link to the survey. Hopefully that will get more AVEN respondents.

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Plectrophenax

Thanks for the clarifications Siggy and Aqua-ace. I realise you can't speak for the entire team, but just knowing how you, especially as part of the survey team, interpret the questions is helpful enough. [Also thank you for listening and considering community feedback. It goes without saying but it's still worth thanking you for.]

Both of you would agree that digital exchanges are included in the "identifying to others" cases, even when they are made indirectly. That's good to know, because even though I agree that it's not excluded, I considered the intended interpretation to be real-life or at least direct and personal exchanges. Maybe this will be different next year, but I'll take the question literally for now.

[i will, in that sense, also state that I'm 'out' to aquaintances, even if those aquaintances are very impersonal and exclusively digital.]

I'll take interest to mean the concrete involvement, then. [This is a case where I also considered this the 'intention' of the survey, but would have responded very differently had I gone the 'literal' route.]

I didn't know about FetLife, and still can't discern a non-sexual fetish, but that's beside the point. I assume it is still understood in a somewhat sexual context [this, at least, is very clearly how FetLife advertises itself] so I'll respond accordingly.

I still don't know about the "Sexual History and Sexual Violence" section. I saw that it is optional, but it is made optional specifically due to it potentially causing distress. Naturally, if one has such a history, responses would be favoured. What I am wondering is whether I should respond in the default negative in spite of not having such a history. I see your point, Siggy, regarding the importance of negative accouts [especially for sexual violence], and yours, Aqua-ace, regarding the preference for a negative response as opposed to falling out of the analysis completely. It's just not really representative if I have made zero experiences either way.

[An option might be to ask "do you have sexual history" and "do you have a history of sexual violence", then ask those who affirmed whether they are comfortable talking about it, then proceed with the questions for those affirming again. That way, the people who have such a history and those who don't would be quantifiable without having a disproportionate amount of "I haven't experienced this particular form of sexual violence" responses].

Regardless, I'll respond to the questions as opposed to skipping them, then.

And I'll go with 'none of the above/other' for my final question. I feel as though apathy is implied in the 'neutral' stance, like Aqua-ace, but I also find that to be ever so slightly misleading. So I won't choose that option ^_^

Thanks for considering the sex-drive/libido additions, by the way. Like I said, I think the questions are worded clearly, but an additional distinction for such a core element can't really hurt.

I'm in anticipation for the results ^_^

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A similar thing goes for the next question about "interest" in kinks and fetishes and the like.

How interested are you in any kink, bdsm, or fetish activities (including non-sexual ones)?

Does this imply concrete interest [actively practicing/wanting to practice/fantasising about/etc these things] as well as more theoretical interest [facination/detached curiosity/intrigue/etc], or is it meant to cover only one of those? It seems like both is applicable, but at the same time that strikes me as potentially hurting the evaluation of the question, since unless the two types of interests coincide, the implications behind each of them are fairly different.

[Also, what is a 'non-sexual' fetish? Couldn't this be anything that is of sufficient 'interest'? I have a rather strong liking for mint tea, does that make me have a 'mint-tea-fetish'? And if it does, do I really respond to this question with a 'very interested'? Now that would skewer the results. I'm almost certain this isn't what is meant, but I have never heard the word 'fetish' used in a non-sexual context, though it is frequently used in a merely loosely sexual context.]

From a personal standpoint, I have some weird fetishes, but they are not connected with people. It's more about the act or thing itself rather than the human involved. Most of the time there isn't any human involved. I like to joke that I'm interested in everything other than humans.

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Plectrophenax

From a personal standpoint, I have some weird fetishes, but they are not connected with people. It's more about the act or thing itself rather than the human involved. Most of the time there isn't any human involved. I like to joke that I'm interested in everything other than humans.

You don't have to respond to this, but I have to ask; would you consider these fetishes to be 'sexual'? If not, would you find a word like 'obsession' to be a decent synonym for 'fetish'? In that case, a non-sexual fetish could be anthing one obsesses over?

I've been looking around a bit, but from what I can see, all fetishes are deliberately contextualised in a sexual way. The relation can be essential or very loose, but it's still present. I haven't seen anyone so far who might say something like "cake is my fetish" without ironically savouring [no pun intended] the sexual connotation this seems to have.

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From a personal standpoint, I have some weird fetishes, but they are not connected with people. It's more about the act or thing itself rather than the human involved. Most of the time there isn't any human involved. I like to joke that I'm interested in everything other than humans.

You don't have to respond to this, but I have to ask; would you consider these fetishes to be 'sexual'? If not, would you find a word like 'obsession' to be a decent synonym for 'fetish'? In that case, a non-sexual fetish could be anthing one obsesses over?

I've been looking around a bit, but from what I can see, all fetishes are deliberately contextualised in a sexual way. The relation can be essential or very loose, but it's still present. I haven't seen anyone so far who might say something like "cake is my fetish" without ironically savouring [no pun intended] the sexual connotation this seems to have.

I consider it to be sexual because it causes sexual arousal. But a fetish doesn't have to involve other people, just like masturbation.

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Plectrophenax

I consider it to be sexual because it causes sexual arousal. But a fetish doesn't have to involve other people, just like masturbation.

I would agree. The census still makes note of "non-sexual" fetishes, though, my failing understanding of which lead to my question.

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I consider it to be sexual because it causes sexual arousal. But a fetish doesn't have to involve other people, just like masturbation.

I would agree. The census still makes note of "non-sexual" fetishes, though, my failing understanding of which lead to my question.

Hmm, that's a good question. I guess people would assume that "sexual" means it's related to another person sexuality, in the "non-asexual" sense of sexual.

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Took the survey.

I'm glad I had this brought to my attention,

this is the first time I've been able to take it.

I'm looking forward to the results!

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So, I haven't finished it yet because it seems like my answers are going to really screw this up. Because, of course, being sexual doesn't change the fact that most women have had sexual interactions they didn't want, and I'm not exempt from that... however, if this is going to be used to show that asexuals face more violence or something like that, then my answers are going to wrongly skew things. As such, I feel very uncomfortable submitting my survey as everything I say is going to be presumed to be said from an asexual perspective, not a sexual one.

Despite saying this is open to people who aren't on the ace spectrum, taking the survey made me feel very much like the opposite is true. Is this somehow accounted for in the results filtering, or no?

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I did this.

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So, I haven't finished it yet because it seems like my answers are going to really screw this up. Because, of course, being sexual doesn't change the fact that most women have had sexual interactions they didn't want, and I'm not exempt from that... however, if this is going to be used to show that asexuals face more violence or something like that, then my answers are going to wrongly skew things. As such, I feel very uncomfortable submitting my survey as everything I say is going to be presumed to be said from an asexual perspective, not a sexual one.

Despite saying this is open to people who aren't on the ace spectrum, taking the survey made me feel very much like the opposite is true. Is this somehow accounted for in the results filtering, or no?

In last year's analysis, the responses from asexuals, gray-a/demis, and sexuals were split out. I assume the same will be done this year.

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Done and done. Very nice survey by the way, little to no inconsistencies we see so often on other surveys posted here (but I guess since this one is AVEN official that's expected :P )

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"What is your highest completed level of education?" <- I always have trouble with this question in US surveys because the educational system in my country is very different. In my country you go to a higher educational school before you go to uni. That's 2-3 schools before you're allowed to study because in my country you have to take a special exam for that. Very, very different from the US.
So I'll just pick something that 'seems' right but is still wrong for me.

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"What is your highest completed level of education?" <- I always have trouble with this question in US surveys because the educational system in my country is very different. In my country you go to a higher educational school before you go to uni. That's 2-3 schools before you're allowed to study because in my country you have to take a special exam for that. Very, very different from the US.

So I'll just pick something that 'seems' right but is still wrong for me.

The extra years can be considered high school. The others are more complicated to map, but at least it's stuffed under a general less than high school category.
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+ive overall. Well-formatted. Hint of 201-type inquiries would have been welcomed. Thanx. :ph34r:

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+ive overall. Well-formatted. Hint of 201-type inquiries would have been welcomed. Thanx. :ph34r:

Were there any particular inquiries you had in mind?

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Just took the survey. I will share what I wrote in the Feedback section at the end of it:

The questions regarding gender identity were fine and all, but they all assume that every applicant agrees with prevailing, left-wing gender ideology. The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

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The questions regarding gender identity were fine and all, but they all assume that every applicant agrees with prevailing, left-wing gender ideology. The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

Of course, you can also just choose the same option for gender and sex and it would mean the same

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The questions regarding gender identity were fine and all, but they all assume that every applicant agrees with prevailing, left-wing gender ideology. The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

Of course, you can also just choose the same option for gender and sex and it would mean the same

No, it would not, especially if you don't follow left-wing gender ideology.

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The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

I don't think there are enough people who would choose this as a response to warrant it as a clickable option. For now, anyone who doesn't see their option listed or cannot answer the "Gender Identity" question will have to choose "Other," which is what that option is there for. It'd be interesting to see what the results to "Other" are though because that will inform the survey team of what options might be better included as a clickable option.

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The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

I don't think there are enough people who would choose this as a response to warrant it as a clickable option. For now, anyone who doesn't see their option listed or cannot answer the "Gender Identity" question will have to choose "Other," which is what that option is there for. It'd be interesting to see what the results to "Other" are though because that will inform the survey team of what options might be better included as a clickable option.

I say that this is wrong. I say there are more people and asexuals like this than you think, if only they didn't get chased out of AVEN sometimes over excessive accusations of transphobia.

So that is really the heart of my feedback: the language of this question is reflective of an alienating, left-wing bias.

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Plectrophenax

The questions regarding gender identity were fine and all, but they all assume that every applicant agrees with prevailing, left-wing gender ideology. The survey should also have answers to reflect the attitudes of conservative asexuals or of asexuals who have attitudes toward gender that do not align with the mainstream talking points of liberals and conservatives. There should be answers saying things like "Gender and sex are the same" and "I disagree with gender identity." I ultimately said the latter in my "Other" comment, but I feel that making these into clickable options will yield better results.

Admittedly, I also tripped over this. While I'm not entirely sure what exactly you mean by "left-wing gender ideology" [but then again, I'm not entirely sure what people mean by "gender"], I would agree that "I don't have a gender identity" is not the same as saying "I don't share or agree with [or understand or find relevant] the concept of gender identity". The 'other' option implies an agreement or even an understanding of gender identity and as such is indeed insufficient.

The idea that gender and sex is the same might well be worth a mention as opposed to taking their difference for granted. "Do you consider the distinction between sex and gender to be useful?" might be a pertinent question that could lead to interesting results.

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Yes, Plectro, that's it exactly. Psychologically, there is a different phenomenon between someone who doesn't agree or see the need for the concept of gender and one who may simply see themselves with a neutral or null gender.

To clarify what you inquired about left-wing gender ideology, it's essentially what most people understand to be gender theory. Gender theory is almost exclusively a left-wing concept, though. You certainly will have a hard time finding conservatives who see maleness and femaleness in the same light as that, and even some centrists, like myself, find it to be intellectually lacking. I make the point of specifying that gender theory is left-wing because I think this has resulted in somewhat biased and loaded questions, in that they assume that gender theory is so correct that everyone will give answers that accommodate the basic assumptions of left-wing gender theory.

If we want a survey to be scientifically and intellectually valid, though, we need to root out biases that can give a skewed and inaccurate portrayal of the aggregate views of the asexual community. One way to do that is to make questions that are not loaded with a left-wing bias but are tonally apolitical. It would be nice if AVEN in general could do a better job of this, really.

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