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Kimchi Peanut
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Spazz, spastic and derivatives when used as a slur against those with Cerebral Palsy and similar conditions. 

 

Also please don't use these terms as part of your user name. 

As this is not a blanket ban on those words, I would expect the same parameters for the word fit. Uses of the word to mean physically in shape or attractive or appropriate, for example, would be completely different.

 

Edit: I do feel that both admods and members can agree it would be very easy to tell the difference between “She had a fit” and “I’m not sure this dress fits.” There are many other homonyms in the English language.

Edited by Kimchi Peanut
Be reasonable, please
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Snao Cone (me)

As someone who has had seizures, I would not want them to be called "fits" even if that's what the word means in the UK. I wouldn't report posts using the word as such, but I think it's reasonable for me to step in and tell UK folks why I don't want that word used without fear of reprisal for being ~*~tOo SeNsItIvE~*~ about something that I experience and they likely don't. This isn't a matter of banned words, per se, but if it became a repeated issue with the same person calling it a fit in direct or indirect reference to me, I might consider it harassment and report it as such. I think admods would understand that and see it from my angle rather than the "I'm British and therefore my English is more technically correct than yours and you have no right to correct me" angle that I'm sure some snarky people might take. 

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Kimchi Peanut
27 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

As someone who has had seizures, I would not want them to be called "fits" even if that's what the word means in the UK. I wouldn't report posts using the word as such, but I think it's reasonable for me to step in and tell UK folks why I don't want that word used without fear of reprisal for being ~*~tOo SeNsItIvE~*~ about something that I experience and they likely don't. This isn't a matter of banned words, per se, but if it became a repeated issue with the same person calling it a fit in direct or indirect reference to me, I might consider it harassment and report it as such. I think admods would understand that and see it from my angle rather than the "I'm British and therefore my English is more technically correct than yours and you have no right to correct me" angle that I'm sure some snarky people might take. 

Thank you. I’m not trying to pull some sort of “if we can’t say x, you can’t say y” thing or be overly sensitive. I’m just pointing out that it‘s another example of a word that may be acceptable in one English speaking region and unacceptable in another. I cringe every time I hear it here and I don’t personally have a seizure disorder. I’m sure it must be similar to how British people feel when Americans say something like “Sorry, I’m just a spaz.” I feel these terms should all be treated at the same level.

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LeChat
28 minutes ago, Kimchi Peanut said:

...I’m not trying to pull some sort of “if we can’t say x, you can’t say y” thing or be overly sensitive. I’m just pointing out that it‘s another example of a word that may be acceptable in one English speaking region and unacceptable in another...

Sure. I understand that; I only meant that I was worried that some members might start taking it literally and start reporting every time someone uses the word, even when they're not using it in a context that refers to people with disabilities.

 

One time, I saw one member openly report a new member's first post to an Admod because they thought and interpreted the new member's post as being dismissive of another member and against the TOS, whereas, when I looked at the new member's post they weren't saying anything offensive or hurtful to anyone, just attempting to give different advice to the OP. 

 

And I've heard at least a couple of members feel as though they're constantly being reported by others. It is kind of worrying, as though some members are purposely trying to find something to report about to others who aren't saying anything offensive or trying to hurt others.

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Homer

Personally I have never seen people refer to seizures as "fits" on here... :huh: do you see that often?

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Kimchi Peanut
1 hour ago, Homer said:

Personally I have never seen people refer to seizures as "fits" on here... :huh: do you see that often?

Personally, I’ve never seen anyone refer to someone with cerebral palsy as “spastic” on here. No, I don’t often see any talk of seizure OR cerebral palsy on AVEN. Fits is used whenever seizures are mentioned in daily life in the UK - I’ve never heard a British person say the word seizure. Whereas I’ve never heard anyone anywhere say spaz or spastic in reference to cerebral palsy. While an American saying spaz while referring to someone’s cerebral palsy will never happen because they aren’t familiar with that definition, it’s highly likely that a British person will refer to someone’s seizures as fits. (Assuming either topic were to appear on AVEN.) If there is a rule in place for the specific usage of spastic/spaz, I see no reason not to do the same or similar with fits.

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Skycaptain

Speaking as a Brit, I can say that if you saw someone collapse in the street and go into contractions, run to their aid, and yell to someone nearby "call an ambulance they're having a fit" would be understood by more than "call an ambulance they're having a seizure" 

Unfortunately, and note, I'm only using this term reluctantly, in context, non-perjoratively, but if you were to say "call an ambulance, they're having an epi", then everyone would understand. 

 

 

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Skycaptain

@Kimchi Peanut, the "Spazz" ruling actually came from something other than usage in threads. Owing to admod breaching rules I can't say anymore than that. 

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Janus DarkFox
18 minutes ago, Kimchi Peanut said:

If there is a rule in place for the specific usage of spastic/spaz, I see no reason not to do the same or similar with fits.

I see this has opened a can of worms here.  Sure there’s similarities myself having Tourette’s Syndrome and references to the Motor tics.  Would ‘tics’ or ‘jerks’ be banned?

 

I mean it’s not reasonable to expect ‘They’re just having one of their Mayocolonic Movements’ to me from anybody but a doctor.

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Kimchi Peanut
37 minutes ago, Janus DarkFox said:

I see this has opened a can of worms here.  Sure there’s similarities myself having Tourette’s Syndrome and references to the Motor tics.  Would ‘tics’ or ‘jerks’ be banned?

 

I mean it’s not reasonable to expect ‘They’re just having one of their Mayocolonic Movements’ to me from anybody but a doctor.

Tic is a generic medical term for any form of myoclonus. Fit, for the majority of AVEN users, is not. There is nothing insulting about the word tic like there is nothing insulting about the word seizure. Seizure isn’t a highly medically specific term like myoclonus. I don’t expect anyone outside of the medical field to know what myoclonus is. I would expect anyone over the age of 12 to know what a seizure is. (In the US.) Any American child will also know what “having/throwing a fit” means but only in the sense that someone is throwing themselves on the ground and kicking and screaming to get their way. Which, if you think about, looks like a ridiculous over-the-top imitation of a seizure. So for any North American to read the word fit to mean seizure, their mind is going to go to obvious insult. As Snao said, it isn’t about being overly sensitive. It simply is offensive on a different continent. I don’t think it’s a can of worms at all. I’m merely pointing out what to me is an obvious equivalent missed in the update.
 

@Skycaptain I don’t even know the meaning of epi in that context. To me, an epi is short for epi-pen - a “pen” injector of epinephrine. I assume in this case, it has something to do with epileptic activity but I genuinely wouldn’t be able to guess that without the given context.

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Skycaptain

@Kimchi Peanut, "having an epi" is used as a pejorative for someone having a seizure, especially a Grand Mal 

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Snao Cone (me)

As in epileptic. 

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timewarp

Let me just say this. As a German, for obvious historical reasons I find the north American use of the word "race" as applied to humans highly offensive. If people start reporting the British use of the word "fit", I will consequently report each and every use of the word "race" in this context.

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Snao Cone (me)
47 minutes ago, timewarp said:

Let me just say this. As a German, for obvious historical reasons I find the north American use of the word "race" as applied to humans highly offensive. If people start reporting the British use of the word "fit", I will consequently report each and every use of the word "race" in this context.

As I recently posted in a T&S thread, I find the word "Caucasian" to be extensively problematic for a similar reason. I'm not going to report people for using the word, but I'm still going to express my opinions about it.

 

Talking about the reasons why is far more important than simply getting people up stop using it. I don't think it's irrational for me to say "FYI, we call them seizures here. A 'fit' is when a customer flips out because they want to complain but the store manager isn't on duty. That's not what I'm like in a medical episode." 

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Anthracite_Impreza

"Having a fit" means both "seizure" and "tantrum" here. In context I've literally never heard anyone get the two mixed up.

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Kimchi Peanut

Perhaps the new update could be reworded if this is such an issue for everyone. I don’t understand the issue, quite frankly, but if the update were to be reworded to be more vague and not include examples... this could both avoid cultural arguments and be overall inclusive.

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timewarp
22 minutes ago, Snao Cone said:

As I recently posted in a T&S thread, I find the word "Caucasian" to be extensively problematic for a similar reason. I'm not going to report people for using the word, but I'm still going to express my opinions about it.

 

Talking about the reasons why is far more important than simply getting people up stop using it. I don't think it's irrational for me to say "FYI, we call them seizures here. A 'fit' is when a customer flips out because they want to complain but the store manager isn't on duty. That's not what I'm like in a medical episode." 

My point is that we can only have it one way. Either we take all sensitivities into account, leading to a large amount of things that cannot be said and a lot of time spent on wording carefully everything we say here, or we accept that there are different uses of the English language and different cultures around the world. We cannot have both.

 

Personally I'm in favour of the second option, as evidenced by my longstanding opposition to the banned words list.

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Anthracite_Impreza

Agree with @timewarp, we already have to walk on eggshells a lot of the time. It's getting to the point you daren't say anything. I'm autistic, I also don't care if people say spaz casually even though it's a "traditional" insult to my "kind"; I say it myself quite often. I think it's pretty obvious when someone's being deliberately snarky or offensive.

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Snao Cone (me)
3 minutes ago, timewarp said:

My point is that we can only have it one way. Either we take all sensitivities into account, leading to a large amount of things that cannot be said and a lot of time spent on wording carefully everything we say here, or we accept that there are different uses of the English language and different cultures around the world. We cannot have both.

 

Personally I'm in favour of the second option, as evidenced by my longstanding opposition to the banned words list.

I agree, though I think we also need to allow for people to voice why they don't personally want words used in reference to them, without them being accused of censorship or whatever. People can be overly sensitive about this from any direction - whether that's in the form of feeling degraded from subjectively offensive words being used, or feeling attacked by having language critically examined. I am in the camp of letting people work through these things directly, rather than getting mods involved when language isn't being used in bad faith. 

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Kimchi Peanut
Just now, Snao Cone said:

I agree, though I think we also need to allow for people to voice why they don't personally want words used in reference to them, without them being accused of censorship or whatever. People can be overly sensitive about this from any direction - whether that's in the form of feeling degraded from subjectively offensive words being used, or feeling attacked by having language critically examined. I am in the camp of letting people work through these things directly, rather than getting mods involved when language isn't being used in bad faith. 

Completely agree. I think there’s some words that should obviously not be said but most of the time, I think it should be discretion. I do think the banned word list is lengthy. I just think if you include one example, you have to include all.

 

Which is why I think it should be reworded for less confusion and more inclusivity.

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Snao Cone (me)

I guess one possible test could be "Would you feel sorry for someone getting taken aside and spoken to at work over this?" Calling a colleague a spaz or retarded would violate most respectful workplace policies here. Saying someone's having a fit when they're having a seizure wouldn't, but repeatedly calling it such when told not to would. Common sense doesn't need to be spelled out so specifically.

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Phoenix the II

*Bans everyone*

 

Problem solved.

 

:P 

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Anthracite_Impreza

I would never call someone a spaz unless I knew they were ok with it, same as any other word. At the railway me and Engineer are affectionately known as Knobhead and Prick; I call some of the CHAOS crew dickheads regularly, and they me. There are nuances to these things, you can't just ban everything (well you can but then this place will become even more of an uber-safe space echo chamber than it already is). There's "I don't like this word, please stop" and then there's "I don't like this word and I'm going to report you and get you banned".

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Snao Cone (me)
9 minutes ago, Anthracite_Impreza said:

There's "I don't like this word, please stop" and then there's "I don't like this word and I'm going to report you and get you banned".

Key difference, for sure.

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Kimchi Peanut

I’m guilty as anyone of using insults affectionately. Today, I told my favorite shop assistant (whose name I don’t even know) where I do daily shopping to shut up and have called my husband stinky. But I wouldn’t tell someone I’ve never met “shut up, stinky!” unless I was deliberately trying to be rude. I know a lot more interaction in chat goes unreported that would definitely get reported if it was in a post. Probably due to being able to immediately respond with “please stop” or “that’s not okay.” The majority of the time, that’s enough. When it’s not, a report is made and it’s dealt with. But if something is explicitly spelled out in ToS as not okay, it’s much more likely to be reported regardless of context. Likewise, if you have a clear cut list of words not to use, it will be assumed that anything not on that list is always okay. 

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firewallflower

I received a notification that a new topic had been posted in Admods Only about an hour ago. When I clicked on the link just to see what would happen, it told me I didn't have permission to view the content (which is as it should be), but I'm confused as to why I got this notification in the first place. This hasn't happened before (and I don't see how I could have accidentally followed the forum, given I've never had access to it in the first place :P)... any ideas?

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Homer
16 minutes ago, firewallflower said:

I received a notification that a new topic had been posted in Admods Only about an hour ago. When I clicked on the link just to see what would happen, it told me I didn't have permission to view the content (which is as it should be), but I'm confused as to why I got this notification in the first place. This hasn't happened before (and I don't see how I could have accidentally followed the forum, given I've never had access to it in the first place :P)... any ideas?

Which thread was this notif for?

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CBC

I've gotten notifications for threads I can't view as well. And I don't mean ones that get hidden.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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Anthracite_Impreza

The 4th wall has been broken.

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