Alterous asexuals?

[Star Bit]

QP literally means oddly platonic, and obviously many things can fall under that; it's no surprise such a broad word became a broad term.

Basically a QPR has inaccurately come to mean anything that doesn't involve mutual romantic attraction, which goes against its very foundation; the word platonic; which means non-sexual and non-romantic. Romantic friendship is literally the preexisting term for QPR; not a sparsely romantic relationship, so no, it's not applicable to romantic relationships. Someone who is sparsely romantic is called Hyporomantic or Gray-romantic.

Despite quasiplatonic's intent at being synonymous with QPR, the term Quasi does not reflect "odd" and actually means the opposite in that it's either "appearing but not actually being (platonic)", "virtually/nearly (platonic)", or "containing both of something (platonic and _ which cancels out the platonic)". For relationships that actually have non-platonic things in them like FWBs with making out or sex, Quasiplatonic actually applies; if they don't want to use FWB. If a relationship is action wise a QPR but one feels platonically or queerplatonically and the other feels romantically then Quasiromantic could be used if they don't want to call it a romantic relationship.

[aeronaut]

As far as I'm aware a QPR simply means any relationship that is not purely romantic, that doesn't mean there can't be romantic feelings or acts that are typically seen as romantic involved at all. Of course, if two people are romantically attracted to each other and the relationship is romantic, I don't think that can be a QPR, but as long as the people involved are aro/ace-spectrum, then why is it such a big deal to call it queerplatonic? Honestly, it's much easier to call your relationship romantic because most people don't even understand what queerplatonic is, so if it is easier to call it romantic, people will do that. If people call it queerplatonic, it means it differs enough from romantic to call it that. You can't tell people what to call their relationship, the people involved know much better than you what kind of feelings they have and what kind of relationship they want. There's a lot of variation within romantic relationships, so why can't there be within queerplatonic relationships?

Anyway, maybe alterous will be useful to some people. Although I fit the definition I don't like the term much, but others might :)

[Star Bit]

Romantic feelings or just acting romantically are what make a romantic relationship, how the heck would that fall under platonic? It wouldn't. (unless you're talking about the "one feels romantically and the other feels platonically/queerplatonically, but they don't do anything above a traditional QPR" combination, then yah, it could)

And asexuality/aromanticism is not a spectrum; white is not a spectrum, Sexuality, Romanticism, and the Gray umbrella are.

And i agree about the variation in romantic relationships, but alterous is too broad of a term and all 5 of its types already have names (at least according to its original definition which is getting skewed more and more toward being the QPR orientation); none of which should be confused for eachother.

[aeronaut]

Since when are asexuality and aromanticism not a spectrum? Gray-asexuality, demisexuality etc. fall under the ace spectrum, grey-(a)romanticism and demiromanticism are under the aro spectrum. I've never seen anyone claim anything else in my time in ace communities (and I've been around for almost 2 years now despite only recently registering here on AVEN).

[Star Bit]

Gray-A (which contains demisexuality) IS NOT Asexuality. It is CLOSE in that at one point they momentarily don't desire sex, but fact is they do at some unusual point desire sex. Asexuals do not desire sex. Gray-A is between sexual and asexual. Gray-A is its OWN section on the sexual spectrum. It's equivocally the bisexual of the group; it is not heterosexual nor homosexual, it is both. I've also been on Aven for 2 years; almost every day in fact, and many people suport this.

[Ieternum]

I'm glad that I found this out recently and I'm still all A's for my orientation.

The weird thing about my alterous attraction towards people is how sensual I want to be with anyone I am aesthetically attracted to, and those who I have become emotionally invested in. I still wouldn't want to have intercourse with anyone, but with a libido, it's frustrating to deal with.

[Star Bit]

^ Ok, so you commonly have sensual and aesthetic attraction paired, but that's not alterous; alterous is strictly wanting emotional closeness with someone and anything more is something else. Also, just to make sure, are you sure you don't have romantic attraction with that? (i.e. just because its commonly paired) You don't need to want to do typical romantic things to have a romantic orientation. Romantic attraction is an emotion; so it doesn't translate well into words, but it can be inadequately put as soft/warm/fuzzy feelings with some degree of fixation (at least in comparison to one's normality with others). Some people have a physical reaction to the feeling and others don’t (i.e. butterflies in their stomach, heart rate increase, blushing, etc. [though those are also symptoms of platonic nervousness]). Others may react mentally with a dreamy mindset, anxious euphoria, infatuation, romantic fantasies, etc.

[sindi]

Romantic attraction and a strong platonic attraction definitely get all muddled for me - I might not be able to tell the difference, or it could fluctuate from one to the other... to not having any attraction at all... and then back to some kind of an attraction again Good to know that there even is a word for this in-between attraction!

[Star Bit]

Of course, if two people are romantically attracted to each other and the relationship is romantic, I don't think that can be a QPR. Honestly, it's much easier to call your relationship romantic because most people don't even understand what queerplatonic is. If people call it queerplatonic, it means it differs enough from romantic to call it that. You can't tell people what to call their relationship, the people involved know much better than you what kind of feelings they have and what kind of relationship they want. There's a lot of variation within romantic relationships, so why can't there be within queerplatonic relationships?

Romantic feelings are what make a romantic relationship

To reply to an old comment with new information and correct a previous inaccuracy of mine, actually, romantic feelings aren't the only thing that make a relationship romantic; simply acting romantically can. Just like sexual attraction nor sexual desire make a sexual relationship; simply acting sexually does, it also translates to romantic attraction nor romantic desire make a relationship romantic; simply acting as what's categorized as romantically does. And while romantic and platonic actions can be similar, there are clear actions that are romantic (though not easy to put into words because its typically by expression). So while i will agree to a degree that two people are only in a romantic relationship if they agree to be, if they actually act so then it is romantic and they don't really have a say in the matter; kind of like two people going out on romantic dates but not wanting to say they're dating yet... they are dating. And to the bold, actually no, because due to QPR's current skewed meaning it can be 99% a romantic relationship (i.e. minus romantic feelings). Yes, there are alot of variations in romantic relationships, and there can be a similar range in queerplatonic relationships (i.e. according to its original definition and not its current skewed definition), but QPR's current definition does not live up to its own literal meaning; quasiromantic does. But as i mentioned at the start; that also wouldn't hold up because their relationship would actually add up to being romantic. So actually quasiromantic would work for people who accurately fit the traditional definition of a QPR but have one partner feel romantically.

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Also, i meant to originally post alterous's real definition but never did:

According to its vague creator given definition, alterous can mean 5 things; all of which already have titles. Here’s a link to that definition.

Creator’s definition slightly reworded for better clarity:

Alterous is desiring emotional closeness with someone specific; nothing more, but the person feeling so is not comfortable with calling the feeling romantic or platonic for whatever reason.

(So it's not necessarily being between the two; it may be between the two, or they may feel romantically/ platonically but not want to use those words, or they may feel something they associate with romance because they don't know about the following words or other attractions. And the creator never mentions that any other attractions can be felt under it. The other definitions you see of alterous are not the creator's definition and exist through the grapevine effect.)

1) a desire to further know/befriend someone; this desired bond can vary from friends, to close friends, to best friends, and can include nervousness

(a squish)

2) desiring or having closeness/importance stronger than the best friend norm

(a type of QPR or queerplatonic squish aka queerplatonic crush)

3) not being comfortable with calling things romantic or platonic

(a relationship anarchist-- if i understand the term right)

4) having romantic attraction, but the desires for the relationship are close to platonic/sparsely romantic, the feelings aren't intense, or involve no sensual desires

(hyporomantic / gray-romantic, or asensual alloromantic)

5) someone who can't tell the difference between romantic attraction and platonic attraction; which can possibly be fixed by better explanations

(quoiromantic aka wtfromantic)

[Lightning Blue Ray]

Fellow ace who experiences alterous attraction to guys. If I get the opportunity to spend more time with a guy, who I may or may not get a squish on, I might develop alterous feelings. Not romantic attraction, I know I don't want to engage in romantic activities with him. But sometimes, I'll wonder why I seem to want to be more than friends, yet not really. I know I don't want to be his girlfriend, so alterous is a useful term that fills in this gap for me. I'm using the second definition of alterous here.

[Crimson]

I'm glad that I found this out recently and I'm still all A's for my orientation.

The weird thing about my alterous attraction towards people is how sensual I want to be with anyone I am aesthetically attracted to, and those who I have become emotionally invested in. I still wouldn't want to have intercourse with anyone, but with a libido, it's frustrating to deal with.

Glad you found a term you identify with! Funny enough, mine actually seems to work in reverse. I am usually only aesthetically attracted to people I'm alterous with.

Fellow ace who experiences alterous attraction to guys. If I get the opportunity to spend more time with a guy, who I may or may not get a squish on, I might develop alterous feelings. Not romantic attraction, I know I don't want to engage in romantic activities with him. But sometimes, I'll wonder why I seem to want to be more than friends, yet not really. I know I don't want to be his girlfriend, so alterous is a useful term that fills in this gap for me. I'm using the second definition of alterous here.

I understand what you mean. Most of my alterous feelings are from friendships that have grown into something that feels beyond platonic to me, though I don't want anything romantic from the person.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On another note, it's been awhile since I've been on AVEN, so I'm just now seeing this thread. I understand that alterous is a word that seems to have overlap with other identities in our community. And that's ok. It's alright if this isn't a word you identify with. But arguing semantics of a word and trying to say that alterous people should be using a different word for their identities is a kind of policing. Regardless of your feelings of the word, it is not up to you to decide what a person feels and what words they identify with and use to describe themselves. Let's keep this thread a positive place for those who identify with the term or who have questions about it, not a place to argue semantics about others' identities.

[Star Bit]

And such policing wouldn't even happen if we didn't have a butt load of terms as it is that are only increasing as time goes on with tumblr's label trigger happy users (who are malinformed as well, which isn't a good combination). It's because we don't need a term that has five different meanings, or even the reverse, five different terms that refer to the same thing. So far I've come across two words that could be used as orientations for desiring a QPR when only one is needed and neither should be proclaiming it's something meticulously different.

Secondly, I'm telling people why the word has problems, which someone investing in a term should know.

[Sleepy Skeleton]

I think I'm alterous, or least by the way I define it. When I read other people's definitions (Including Crimson's), they just seem so bizarre. Like trying to describe new colors. No, I prefer to say it's a mix of platonic and romantic attraction without being entirely one or the other. Queerplatonic.

[banana monkey]

Also, i meant to originally post alterous's real definition but never did:

According to its vague creator given definition, alterous can mean 5 things; all of which already have titles. Here’s a link to that definition.

Creator’s definition slightly reworded for better clarity:

Alterous is desiring emotional closeness with someone specific; nothing more, but the person feeling so is not comfortable with calling the feeling romantic or platonic for whatever reason.

(So it's not necessarily being between the two; it may be between the two, or they may feel romantically/ platonically but not want to use those words, or they may feel something they associate with romance because they don't know about the following words or other attractions. And the creator never mentions that any other attractions can be felt under it. The other definitions you see of alterous are not the creator's definition and exist through the grapevine effect.)

2) desiring or having closeness/importance stronger than the best friend norm

(a type of QPR or queerplatonic squish aka queerplatonic crush)

Firstly, I would say desiring closeness stronger than the best friend norm was desiring emotional closeness with that person (and you could say nothing more depending on how you define stronger than the norm) so therefore QP attraction is a type of alterous attraction??

Right, i'm a bit confused, I was going to reply to this and then read back, and i think maybe you and I have a slight difference of opinion as I tend to go by the common QP is kinda like romantic friendship or an unequal relationship, so i wont expand too much further, but as you are of the viewpoint that some QP's where you act romantically should be labelled as romantic friendship and not a QP, I ask the question that if one is of the opinion that QP is "oddly platonic" why is romantic friendship not "oddly platonic" (it is still friendship) and so a type of QP?

is it the same as being wtf romantic??

No. While there may be alterous individuals who are wtf romantic, it is not a prerequisite. I can tell the difference between platonic and romantic attraction, but I also have a third attraction, alterous attraction. This attraction for me is an "I want to know you. I want you to be someone I can depend on, share my feelings with and keep in my life, and I want you to feel comfortable to do the same with me".

Can you explain what romantic and platonic attraction are for you then, so that I can understand the difference between QP and alterous better?

[Rising Sun]

QP attraction doesn't exist. First, QP is a subtype of platonic, not a separate category. Second, if you're attracted to someone, whatever the attraction is, it's by definition not platonic.

There is the desire to make friends, and if it's the desire to be committed friends, or cuddle buddies, it's QP because it's considered an atypical friendship by society.

Alterous, on the contrary, is based on attraction and involves some ambiguous kind of attraction ; it's somewhat romantic but not enough or too atypical for the average romantic person. It's grey-romantic, actually. A mix of romantic and friendly feelings that are confusing to the point where the person can't even know where the limit between the two categories is.

[Sleepy Skeleton]

Alterous, on the contrary, is based on attraction and involves some ambiguous kind of attraction ; it's somewhat romantic but not enough or too atypical for the average romantic person. It's grey-romantic, actually. A mix of romantic and friendly feelings that are confusing to the point where the person can't even know where the limit between the two categories is.

This is perfect. I want to print it out on a t shirt and make flyers and stuff.

[Star Bit]

Wouldn't that just be Quoiromantic or queerplatonic? And there are queerplatonic squishes/crushes, so I'd say there is QP attraction.

@banana monkey

A QP is not an unequal relationship, if you mean one feels romantically and the other platonically, that's still a romantic relationship. But if you mean they don't do anything of a romantic relationship but do QP stuff then that'd be up to them on what they call their relationship. You are right in that what's defined as a romantic friendship is a QPR, but i think you're interpreting the meaning of romantic friendship wrong (though admittedly this is why some people dislike the term and prefer passionate friendship); it's factually defined as a non-sexual non-romantic friendship that has components associated with romantic relationships/what's above the western friendship norm. I'd say look up more info on QPRs, but as there's a debate on that since some people include more than it's supposed to (e.g. sex, romance, etc.), i can't really safely suggest that kuz you'll most likely be getting wrong information. And i don't consider people who are under the accurate definition of romantic friendship to need to identify as romantic, just people who are factually in a romantic relationship whether romantic attraction is present or not. Also, everything is friendship; that's where the whole boyfriend/girlfriend terms came from, but not all friendships aren't platonic and that's why you'll never find a dictionary defining the word platonic with the word friendship (or on the rare occasion they do then they're wrong).

· Romantic attraction - an emotion; so it doesn't translate well into words, but it can be inadequately put as soft/warm/fuzzy feelings with some degree of fixation (at least in comparison to one's normality with others). Some people have a physical reaction to the feeling and others don’t (i.e. butterflies in their stomach, heart rate increase, blushing, etc. [though those are also symptoms of platonic nervousness]). Others may react mentally with a dreamy mindset, anxious euphoria, infatuation, romantic fantasies, etc.

· Platonic attraction - (aka a friend crush or squish; a play on the romantic word crush) the impulse to further know or befriend someone specific. The desired bond can vary from being friends, to close friends, to best friends. It may include nervousness or admirance, and once the desired bond is reached the squish goes away. But alloromantic allosexuals also get these confused (thread/vids link).

Queerplatonic strictly started out as referring either to an importance above the BFF norm or having platonic sensual attraction like cuddle buddies (one or the other, i can't recall, but then the second one got added on, and it just eventually kept increasing until it didn't even hold the meaning of platonic anymore). The definition of platonic means no sex and no romance (if not exclusively the former in most dictionaries, but it was also defined by allosexuals who most likely expect that you can't have romance without sex). But also something i noticed, if someone is into non-sexual BDSM and does it for calming purposes, them saying they have a platonic relationship with their dominatrix probably won't fly with most people, so more so, perhaps platonic should mean something normally done with friends. Or maybe it should be labeled some kind of FWB situation.

[Rising Sun]

QP is emotionally platonic, and platonic isn't attraction. It's what you feel for your friends and family, and calling that attraction would be both inaccurate and awkward (to not say inappropriate). QP is merely platonic that looks weird to others. It seems different as feelings are expressed a bit differently, but emotionally, it's not of a different nature, it's generally more intense than other friendships but that's all.

[Star Bit]

No, attraction is something that evokes interest. There is platonic attraction, which is also known as a squish or friend crush, as well as aesthetic attraction, sensual attraction, and emotional attraction, all of which can be platonic. As said, platonic just means no romance or sex, nothing more. So by definition is IS platonic. And alterous is factually becoming synonymous with desiring a QPR.

[Rising Sun]

So you're platonically attracted to your parents then ? And no relationships, no love, no affection can exist without attraction ?

You see, both things, that's huge bullshit.

[Star Bit]

I never said any of that. You don't understand the concept of a squish/platonic attraction. It's not just wanting to be friends with someone/just having a platonic relationship with anyone. It is the strong urge/fixation to befriend someone specific, to a specific degree, and even have symptoms associated with crushes; like getting nervous, overjoyed when platonically reciprocated, etc. Please just look up threads talking about it. (thread/vids link, which talks about them past comment #11)

[Rising Sun]

I know what a squish is, I had many of them, and I'd like to stop seeing them lumped with crushes and called attraction because that's not the same thing at all, and that's huge amatonormative crap and erasure. You've spread so much misinformation about what squishes and platonic relationships for so long and this is destructive, because now plenty of people have a good reason to be skeptical and to believe that it's just repressed romantic attraction. Please STOP. You're not doing a service to the aromantic community.

[Star Bit]

Uh, no, that's the current definition of squishes. I did not make this up, i got it from many threads on the topic.

[Rising Sun]

That's your personal definition of them. Come on. You're just confusing people.

[Star Bit]

NO I'M NOT, IT IS IN MANY THREADS FROM BEFORE I EVEN CAME HERE!! QUIT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH.

[Rising Sun]

It's your personal definition, again. And you're trying to say that your definition has something official.

[AVEN #1 fan]

I think an alterous person can have an relationship of any kind, like an cupioromantic they can want an emotional bond with romance

Also like an hyporomantic they can have low romantic drives

They can be like sapioromantics

And like bellusromantics they can enjoy romantic acts

They can also not be able to distinguish friendship from romance like quoiromantics.

That's my understanding from alterous and their "emotional" bonds. Oh well, alterous looks like a fruit salad of orientations, Star, you need to add alterous to your encyclopedia.

[banana monkey]

But if you mean they don't do anything of a romantic relationship but do QP stuff .....

. And i don't consider people who are under the accurate definition of romantic friendship to need to identify as romantic, just people who are factually in a romantic relationship whether romantic attraction is present or not.

Queerplatonic strictly started out as referring either to an importance above the BFF norm or having platonic sensual attraction like cuddle buddies (one or the other, i can't recall, but then the second one got added on, and it just eventually kept increasing until it didn't even hold the meaning of platonic anymore).

edit - so i wrote a reply and then realised it didnt have much to do with the OP or alterous attraction but rather the denfinition of Queerplatonic relationships so I should start another thread. I will do if i feel it necessary.

[Guest]

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[Star Bit]

Besides the platonic attraction/squish disagreement, what i said still holds true; aesthetic attraction and sensual attraction and emotional attraction can all be platonic and they are all types of attraction. Attraction is not just romantic. And according to the creator, which i linked and comment so in comment #39, alterous isn't just a mixture of both, it may or may not be but for whatever reason the person doesn't want to call it romantic. All the other definitions you see of the word are just the grape vine effect. Here are the creator's exact words:

alterous - experiences attraction that can only be described as a desire for emotional closeness because neither romantic or platonic attraction is accurate*

is intended to be used in place of romantic or platonic. for example someone may identify as bi-alterous, poly-alterous, homo-alterous, etc.

*note: a person who IDs this way may experience varying degrees of attraction that is identifiable as romantic or platonic but ultimately feel discomfort / unease / or just a sense of inaccuracy in calling it wholly romantic or platonic

Which to me, either sounds like a squish, a desire for a QPR, or someone with a light crush. Wanting to make out isn't required for romantic attraction and neither is feeling romantic attraction at the same intensity either. But I'm pretty sure allos sometimes can't distinguish if they have a crush or feel strongly platonic about someone too; that's why alot of the time they say "i think i have a crush" and get confused if their "friend crush/girl crush" is an actual romantic crush. And to be clear, when i said squishes can have some of the characteristics of a crush, i meant the physical ones like nervousness, increased hear rate, upset stomach due to nerves; nothing like infatuation and whatnot. Why else would aros commonly mistake them for romantic crushes?