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Lord Jade Cross

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Autumn Season

So in conclusion: Even if the gender bias is not "real", it's real enough for me and those I know, and I'd be really curious to understand more about what causes it. As people all over the world observe the same kinds of situations, it's unlikely to be anything local or exclusive to my local culture. I'd also be really surprised if the same bias didn't apply to a significant chunk of the population of western societies at large, but I suppose I have to concede to you that I have absolutely no proof of that.

Not really talking about gender bias here, but there is this theory which says that if one of four hormones (dopamine, oestrogen, testosterone, serotonin) is prevalent in a person, then their temperament is influenced by the hormone in a way that can be pinned down. For example:

The suite of traits associated with specific activities and genes in the serotonin system include sociability, caution (harm avoidance), less anxiety and more close friends.

[...]

Prenatal endogenous oestrogen priming is associated with contextual, holistic and long-term thinking, as well as linguistic skills, agreeableness, co-operation, theory of mind (intuition), empathy and nurturing.

Sorry to say this (I don't intend to say something offensive here) but this articles relays a lot of gender stereotypes based on biased studies, and that have been disproved many times by other studies.

Really? It would be nice if you could tell me the names of the other studies. Sounds like they could be an interesting read.

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I'll take the numerous studies that show that female students largely underestimate their performance in math, as the article in your post wants to link ability in math with testosterone. Another thing about this article is that its number of references is quite low, the references' author is always the same, and the study says that neurotransmitters have an influence on a lot of things described very vaguely to say the least. For example, how does she demonstrate that women are biologically more nurturing, and how this more nurturing behaviour is directly linked to more estrogen ?

I'll also copy and paste the Wikipedia article (links to references seem to work on my preview) :

Gender stereotypes

See also: Sexism § Gender stereotypes, Implicit stereotype § Gender stereotype and Stereotypes

A 1992 study tested gender stereotypes and labeling within young children.%5B98%5D The researchers divided this into two different studies. The first study investigated how children identified the differences between gender labels of boys and girls. The second study looked at both gender labeling and stereotyping in the relationship of mother and child.

Within the first study, 23 children between the ages of 2 and 7 underwent a series of gender labeling and gender stereotyping tests. These tests consisted of showing the children either pictures of males and females or objects such as a hammer or a broom and identifying or labeling those to a certain gender. The results of these tests showed that children under 3 years could make gender-stereotypic associations.%5B98%5D

The second study looked at gender labeling and stereotyping in the relationship of mother and child using three separate methods. The first consisted of identifying gender labeling and stereotyping, essentially the same method as the first study. The second consisted of behavioral observations, which looked at ten-minute play sessions with mother and child using gender specific toys. The third was a series of questionnaires such as an "Attitude Toward Women Scale", "Personal Attributes Questionnaire", and "Schaefer and Edgerton Scale" which looked at the family values of the mother.%5B98%5D

The results of these studies showed the same as the first study with regards to labeling and stereotyping. They also identified in the second method that the mothers positive reactions and responses to same-sex or opposite-sex toys played a role in how children identified them. Within the third method the results found that the mothers of the children who passed the Gender Labeling Test, had more traditional family values. These two studies, conducted by Beverly I. Fagot, Mar D. Leinbach and Cherie O'Boyle, showed that gender stereotyping and labeling is acquired at a very young age, and that social interactions and associations play a large role in how genders are identified.%5B98%5D

Virginia Woolf, in the 1920s, made the point: "It is obvious that the values of women differ very often from the values which have been made by the other sex. Yet it is the masculine values that prevail".%5B99%5D Sixty years later, psychologist Carol Gilligan was to take up the point, and use it to show that psychological tests of maturity have generally been based on masculine parameters, and so tended to show that women were less 'mature'. She countered this in her ground-breaking work, In a Different Voice, holding that maturity in women is shown in terms of different, but equally important, human values.%5B100%5D

Gender stereotypes are extremely common in society.%5B101%5D%5B102%5D One of the reasons this may be is simply because it is easier on the brain to stereotype (see Heuristics). The brain has limited perceptual and memory systems, so it categorizes information into fewer and simpler units which allows for more efficient information processing.%5B103%5D Gender stereotypes appear to have an effect at an early age. In one study, the effects of gender stereotypes on children's mathematical abilities were tested. In this study of American children between the ages of six and ten, it was found that the children, as early as the second grade, demonstrated the gender stereotype that math is for boys. This may show that the math self-concepts are influenced before the age in which there are actual differences in math achievement.%5B104%5D In another study about gender stereotypes, it was found that parents' stereotypes interact with the sex of their child to directly influence the parents' beliefs about the child's abilities. In turn, parents' beliefs about their child directly influence their child's self-perceptions, and both the parents' stereotypes and the child's self-perceptions influence the child's performance.%5B105%5D

Stereotype threat is the implicit belief in gender stereotype that women perform worse than men in math, which is proposed to lead to lower performance by women. A recent review article of stereotype threat research related to the relationship between gender and math abilities concluded "that although stereotype threat may affect some women, the existing state of knowledge does not support the current level of enthusiasm for this as a mechanism underlying the gender gap in mathematics."%5B106%5D

In another study, Deaux and her colleagues found that most people think women are more nurturant, but less self-assertive than men. Also, it is indicated universally. However, this awareness is related to women's role. That is, women do not have the nurturant personality by nature, but that personality is acquired by being in charge of the housework.%5B107%5D

According to the study of Jean Lipman-Blumen, women who grew up following traditional gender roles from childhood were less likely to want to be highly educated; women who were brought up with the view that men and women are equal were more likely to want higher education. This result shows that gender roles that have been passed down traditionally can influence stereotypes about gender.%5B108%5D

Implicit gender stereotypes

See also: Implicit stereotype

Gender stereotypes and roles can also be supported implicitly. Implicit stereotypes are the unconscious influence of attitudes a person may or may not be aware that they hold. A person is influenced by these attitudes even though they are not aware. Gender stereotypes can also be held in this manner. These implicit stereotypes can often be demonstrated by the Implicit-association test (IAT).

One example of an implicit gender stereotype is that males are seen as better at math than are females. It has been found that men have stronger positive associations with math than do women. Women have stronger negative associations with math, and the more strongly a woman associated herself with the female gender identity, the more negative her association with math is.%5B109%5D This stereotype has been found in American children in as early as second grade.%5B110%5D The same was tested with Singaporean children, and it was found that the strength of their math-gender stereotype and their gender identity predicted their association between the self and math.%5B111%5D

It has been shown that this stereotype also reflects performance in math. A study was done on the worldwide scale and it was found that the strength of this math-gender stereotype in varying countries correlates with 8th graders' scores on the TIMSS, a standardized math and science achievement test that is given worldwide. The results were controlled for general gender inequality and still came out significant.%5B112%5D

And this, as there is the full text link on the page : http://rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=5382

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Not really talking about gender bias here, but there is this theory which says that if one of four hormones (dopamine, oestrogen, testosterone, serotonin) is prevalent in a person, then their temperament is influenced by the hormone in a way that can be pinned down. For example:

That document is claiming with a straight face that various personality "configurations" evolved in the context of monogamous partner choice and couples. I don't even know what to say.

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Autumn Season

Not really talking about gender bias here, but there is this theory which says that if one of four hormones (dopamine, oestrogen, testosterone, serotonin) is prevalent in a person, then their temperament is influenced by the hormone in a way that can be pinned down. For example:

That document is claiming with a straight face that various personality "configurations" evolved in the context of monogamous partner choice and couples. I don't even know what to say.

OK, I admit I didn't read the article. ^^° I only made the related personality test and it fit, so I liked it.

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PS: re: "everyone is like that" thinking, I find it interesting how in many of these types of threads, we get females who act as if they're speaking on behalf of their entire gender. Particularly the "no woman will want to be with someone like that", which you know, is just as dumb as if I were to generalize that all women are jerks (which I don't, but people are still accusing me of that, so it's a good example).

I can remember some of those threads, and my response to one comment in one of them. My comment said, approximately, "If you demonstrate anger toward women, it's likely that no woman will want to be with you." In that specific case, I'd think that's an accurate response.

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PS: re: "everyone is like that" thinking, I find it interesting how in many of these types of threads, we get females who act as if they're speaking on behalf of their entire gender. Particularly the "no woman will want to be with someone like that", which you know, is just as dumb as if I were to generalize that all women are jerks (which I don't, but people are still accusing me of that, so it's a good example).

I can remember some of those threads, and my response to one comment in one of them. My comment said, approximately, "If you demonstrate anger toward women, it's likely that no woman will want to be with you." In that specific case, I'd think that's an accurate response.

I don't know how that would work, to be honest. What exactly constitutes "demonstrating anger toward women", and what makes you think every woman on the planet would interpret this the same way? Like, if someone literally says "I hate all women", maybe.. but that sounds like an impossible scenario to me. Nobody's that brain dead. And if someone says something like "I have made many bad experiences with women and thus I have trouble trusting you" to a woman, I doubt that every woman would take that as a deal-breaker. In fact, I've said exactly that to my girlfriend a couple of times and she was very understanding.

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I can remember some of those threads, and my response to one comment in one of them. My comment said, approximately, "If you demonstrate anger toward women, it's likely that no woman will want to be with you." In that specific case, I'd think that's an accurate response.

I don't know how that would work, to be honest. What exactly constitutes "demonstrating anger toward women", and what makes you think every woman on the planet would interpret this the same way? Like, if someone literally says "I hate all women", maybe.. but that sounds like an impossible scenario to me. Nobody's that brain dead. And if someone says something like "I have made many bad experiences with women and thus I have trouble trusting you" to a woman, I doubt that every woman would take that as a deal-breaker. In fact, I've said exactly that to my girlfriend a couple of times and she was very understanding.

Actually some of those threads did have posts that said, in so many words, "I hate women because they have treated me badly". That's pretty global. I wasn't talking about them saying "I have had bad experiences and so I have trouble trusting". That's a perfectly reasonable thing to say; it isn't making any global assumptions about women, just saying that you're wary of trusting due to your experience.

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Lord Jade Cross

PS: re: "everyone is like that" thinking, I find it interesting how in many of these types of threads, we get females who act as if they're speaking on behalf of their entire gender. Particularly the "no woman will want to be with someone like that", which you know, is just as dumb as if I were to generalize that all women are jerks (which I don't, but people are still accusing me of that, so it's a good example).

I can remember some of those threads, and my response to one comment in one of them. My comment said, approximately, "If you demonstrate anger toward women, it's likely that no woman will want to be with you." In that specific case, I'd think that's an accurate response.
I don't know how that would work, to be honest. What exactly constitutes "demonstrating anger toward women", and what makes you think every woman on the planet would interpret this the same way? Like, if someone literally says "I hate all women", maybe.. but that sounds like an impossible scenario to me. Nobody's that brain dead. And if someone says something like "I have made many bad experiences with women and thus I have trouble trusting you" to a woman, I doubt that every woman would take that as a deal-breaker. In fact, I've said exactly that to my girlfriend a couple of times and she was very understanding.

I have to agree with this to a degree. I dont think that absolutely everyone will take it the same way. The message is interpreted individually. Some people may take it as a direct insult but others will look for a more in depth reason as usually saying things like "I hate" or even "I dont trust" has a reasoning behind it.

I think that including the "I" in the statement is vastly different to accusing others of something, because by default, it only includes the cases particularly specific to said person and it isnt the same as saying something like "all women are the same" which takes away the personal factor in the statement and includes by default all, even those who have no direct relation with a person, of the people on a global scale.

I think that theres a difference between whats said and whats heard from a message.

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