Enlighten me on this

[Telecaster68]

I said many guys.

I don't think it's many, to be honest. A fairly small minority.

As to 'real' love - do you mean 'nonsexual'?

[Lord Jade Cross]

It be interesting to see if sexuals do indeed wish to show other non sexual forms of appreciation but because of the social stigma and conditioning they opt for just following mainstream idealism.

Following that same thought, would they also be willing to accept non sexual forms of appreciation?

Lets say that I become interested in pursuing a relationship and by chance manage to find a girl who is sexual but she also posseses other traits such as being highly intelectual (which would would be my equivalent of sexual attraction), very aesthetically pleasing, that we share same ideals, etc. In short an otherwise match made in heaven as people say.

If except for the sex which would be the only factor I couldnt comply with, showed many other forms of appreciation,would that mean that if I enjoy long talks about things that most people dont even care about, compliment her in her looks (aesthetic not sexual) go out of my way to leave her little gifts telling her I she makes me feel, if I dont strip and fuck, then all the rest means nothijg?

[Erasmvs]

I said many guys.

I don't think it's many, to be honest. A fairly small minority.

As to 'real' love - do you mean 'nonsexual'?

Yes. Nonsexual. That's the word I wanted. Y'know, for us asexuals sexual love doesn't seem real or important, that's why I used that word. But I guess I agree with you. And no, I don't think I'm better than sexuals just because I don't like sex. I actually feel inferior. :/

It be interesting to see if sexuals do indeed wish to show other non sexual forms of appreciation but because of the social stigma and conditioning they opt for just following mainstream idealism.

Good question.

[Telecaster68]

I don't think I'm better than sexuals just because I don't like sex. I actually feel inferior. :/

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel like that - I'm the last person to think any one's inferior because of how they feel. I know it's not what you were trying to say, but I guess for me the whole 'asexual love is superior to sexual love' trope hits the same sensitive spot as 'you just haven't met the right person yet' does for asexuals. It provokes a 'how dare you pronounce about something you haven't experienced' reaction.

[Lord Jade Cross]

I have to agree with Collins. Ouside of mandatory association with people, I dont spend time socializing and yet the idea that im not into sex does tend to produce a feeling of inferiority, especially when everyone from peers to even parents either say it directly or imply it.

I know Ive heard countless "hes not a real man if he doest want to fuck you" phrases being flung around.

[Telecaster68]

It be interesting to see if sexuals do indeed wish to show other non sexual forms of appreciation but because of the social stigma and conditioning they opt for just following mainstream idealism.

Following that same thought, would they also be willing to accept non sexual forms of appreciation?

Lets say that I become interested in pursuing a relationship and by chance manage to find a girl who is sexual but she also posseses other traits such as being highly intelectual (which would would be my equivalent of sexual attraction), very aesthetically pleasing, that we share same ideals, etc. In short an otherwise match made in heaven as people say.

If except for the sex which would be the only factor I couldnt comply with, showed many other forms of appreciation,would that mean that if I enjoy long talks about things that most people dont even care about, compliment her in her looks (aesthetic not sexual) go out of my way to leave her little gifts telling her I she makes me feel, if I dont strip and fuck, then all the rest means nothijg?

Not nothing, but not enough, for most (though not all, there's quite a few sexuals on here who seem to be able to work with it to an extent). Most good sexual relationships need all those kinds of things you listed, plus the sex. And the sex is the bonding energy for them, in my experience. Pleasant enough without it, but lacking the oomph of a relationship with sex.

On the first question though - I can't see any sexual deciding to pursue someone sexually when they admire or like them for some non-sexual reason. It doesn't feel like something you're expected to do (quite the reverse, often). It's perfectly easy to say 'I thought your presentation made some really good points'/'I love your music' etc. and lead into discussion about the presentation, music etc. without anyone assuming it's about sex.(Maybe the exception might be some rock star god used to shagging groupies, but that's an ego thing, not sexuality). It could be interpreted as flirting I guess, and you'd just have to talk some more, spend some time, to figure out whether you were interested.

[Telecaster68]

yet the idea that im not into sex does tend to produce a feeling of inferiority, especially when everyone from peers to even parents either say it directly or imply it.

That's vile behaviour. What kind of things do they say?

[Erasmvs]

I don't think I'm better than sexuals just because I don't like sex. I actually feel inferior. :/

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make you feel like that - I'm the last person to think any one's inferior because of how they feel. I know it's not what you were trying to say, but I guess for me the whole 'asexual love is superior to sexual love' trope hits the same sensitive spot as 'you just haven't met the right person yet' does for asexuals. It provokes a 'how dare you pronounce about something you haven't experienced' reaction.

That's not what I meant tho... I never said it was superior, I just said that since many asexuals don't experience it, it can be a pain in the ass when someone feels sexual attraction to them only. Sorry if you misunderstood, and I didn't mean to hurt you either.

[Lord Jade Cross]

yet the idea that im not into sex does tend to produce a feeling of inferiority, especially when everyone from peers to even parents either say it directly or imply it.

That's vile behaviour. What kind of things do they say?

The usual things: hes gay, not a real man or all real men want sex, hes broken, retarded, sick, etc.

[Telecaster68]

it can be a pain in the ass when someone feels sexual attraction to them only

I'm just picking this up because it seems to embody more general misconception in this thread, and maybe more widely. I'm not attacking, at all.

Horny 16 year old boys and leching over porn aside (IE amongst grownups in real life) a sexual's attraction to other people is almost never only about having sex. There's all the other stuff wrapped up in it - aesthetic, intellectual, moral, etc - and they can contribute to the fact of sexual attraction. It's not about objectification; more like seeing how a present's wrapping makes an already great present even better.

The usual things: hes gay, not a real man or all real men want sex, hes broken, retarded, sick, etc.

Your PARENTS say that kind of thing?

[Lord Jade Cross]

Parents are usually a bit more subtle. For instance my mother is homophobic and while she will not say it out loud, she does consider men who do not have sexual interests in women to be, inferior. So does my grandmother on her side except that she considers them to be sick. On my fathers side my grandfather is a bit more direct and talks about how men, especially older guys would kill for sex with younger women. And my grandmother talks about how everyone eventually wants to settle down and have kids which implies having to go through sex. When I have voiced my disinterest, all Ive gotten in retyrn was "you"ll want it eventually.

Great family wouldnt you agree?

[Lord Jade Cross]

It be interesting to see if sexuals do indeed wish to show other non sexual forms of appreciation but because of the social stigma and conditioning they opt for just following mainstream idealism.

Following that same thought, would they also be willing to accept non sexual forms of appreciation?

Lets say that I become interested in pursuing a relationship and by chance manage to find a girl who is sexual but she also posseses other traits such as being highly intelectual (which would would be my equivalent of sexual attraction), very aesthetically pleasing, that we share same ideals, etc. In short an otherwise match made in heaven as people say.

If except for the sex which would be the only factor I couldnt comply with, showed many other forms of appreciation,would that mean that if I enjoy long talks about things that most people dont even care about, compliment her in her looks (aesthetic not sexual) go out of my way to leave her little gifts telling her I she makes me feel, if I dont strip and fuck, then all the rest means nothijg?

Not nothing, but not enough, for most (though not all, there's quite a few sexuals on here who seem to be able to work with it to an extent). Most good sexual relationships need all those kinds of things you listed, plus the sex. And the sex is the bonding energy for them, in my experience. Pleasant enough without it, but lacking the oomph of a relationship with sex.

But then that can create a message of "your only a worthwhile piece of meat" which is exactly what the women complain about when guys objectify them. So wheres the mid point in all this.

[Telecaster68]

To be honest, it sounds like a fairly standard set of older person type attitudes that might also include 'you need to get a proper job', 'when am I going to get grandchildren', 'have you set up a pension yet', 'I blame the immigrants' etc. Everybody thinks they know best...

I can see how it's particularly galling when you're trying to come to terms with a load of stuff yourself, but it sounds more like insensitivity and not getting their heads round something that seems completely alien to them than anything else.

[Lord Jade Cross]

To be honest, it sounds like a fairly standard set of older person type attitudes that might also include 'you need to get a proper job', 'when am I going to get grandchildren', 'have you set up a pension yet', 'I blame the immigrants' etc. Everybody thinks they know best...

I can see how it's particularly galling when you're trying to come to terms with a load of stuff yourself, but it sounds more like insensitivity and not getting their heads round something that seems completely alien to them than anything else.

That may be so but it doesnt take away the fact that the end result of such things is directly or indirectly affecting you as a person. We grow up being taught to follow the group and that straying away is a bad thing. People dont have to voice it directly, they have already programmed you to feel bad about not being mainstream.

[Telecaster68]

But then that can create a message of "your only a worthwhile piece of meat"

Except sexuals seem to pick up nuances that asexuals don't. It's pretty easy to tell if someone's interested in *you* for yourself and that package includes sex, and if they're just interested in you for sex. Stuff like a shared sense of humour, being interested in your views. And if you're sexual, that kind of interest isn't really a problem, even when you're not interested. We just take it as read that people are sometimes interested in each other sexually. It's part of being human, in our world, and not a big deal. Best case - it's flattering, or you fancy them too and it's fantastic. It's no more troubling than registering someone's handsome/pretty.

which is exactly what the women complain about when guys objectify them.

This is what those earlier posts touched on. If you fancy someone, amongst all the enjoying their personality stuff is a bit of objectifying and it goes both ways, and it feels great when someone you fancy, fancies you back.

It's down to relationships between particular individuals, at particularly moments, rather than drawing up blanket rules for all times and all people

[Telecaster68]

they have already programmed you to feel bad about not being mainstream.

I guess that's where places like AVEN can help people get more secure about their own identity. Other people are never going to stop having their opinions, however unfair.

[Sally]

Technically it is a form of harrasment if a person insists on a behaviour that makes another uncomfortable even if its not sexual. Though there has to be some reported history for it to take any effect

Nope. "Technically" doesn't apply because it usually refers to a legal sense, and harassment that is actionable (i.e., the harassed person can make a legal case) has some pretty strict definitions. Being "uncomfortable" applies to how the receiving person is feeling, not what the other person is doing.

[Erasmvs]

Technically it is a form of harrasment if a person insists on a behaviour that makes another uncomfortable even if its not sexual. Though there has to be some reported history for it to take any effect

Nope. "Technically" doesn't apply because it usually refers to a legal sense, and harassment that is actionable (i.e., the harassed person can make a legal case) has some pretty strict definitions. Being "uncomfortable" applies to how the receiving person is feeling, not what the other person is doing.

^Agree 100%.

[Lord Jade Cross]

So what would be the definition of harrasment?

[Sally]

So what would be the definition of harrasment?

How would YOU define it?

[Lord Jade Cross]

I kind of already said it. Since there seems to be a different view of it, Im asking what is defined as harrasment.

[Corretto]

^ TMI..."What sounds the same can mean the same...to harass is to hassle [deliberately]."

[blue2 sky]

I mean what are the numbers you are basing your facts on? Flirting is a skill it's meant to make the person feel good not sexually creepy. I wouldn't know about using sex to get attention because I am overweight so I try to tell bad jokes lol.

[Erasmvs]

So what would be the definition of harrasment?

Harassment is when you both know it's not good for one of you, but the other person still continues.

[Tarfeather]

So what would be the definition of harrasment?

Harassment is when you both know it's not good for one of you, but the other person still continues.

Well, or when the other person should know that it's not good for the other, but doesn't bother to consider this possibility. Like, invading someone's personal space without permission is harassment, even if you're not aware that the other doesn't like it.

[Erasmvs]

So what would be the definition of harrasment?

Harassment is when you both know it's not good for one of you, but the other person still continues.

Well, or when the other person should know that it's not good for the other, but doesn't bother to consider this possibility. Like, invading someone's personal space without permission is harassment, even if you're not aware that the other doesn't like it.

Good point, I totally agree.

[Lord Jade Cross]

I mean what are the numbers you are basing your facts on? Flirting is a skill it's meant to make the person feel good not sexually creepy. I wouldn't know about using sex to get attention because I am overweight so I try to tell bad jokes lol.

Thats only partially true. The objective of flirting is to attact (whether momentarily or for long term goals is another matter) and the problem lies in that people assume that the opposite party whom is being flirted with, will automatically like it and thats just not true. But because it is proyected as such and in comparison, those who enjoy being flirted with outnumber those who dont enjoy being flirted with, the mentality that is set is "everyone likes it" based on a scale in a numerical level.

To me, a person is actually more attractive if they display a good level of intelligence than if they rely on sex appeal. A person who relies on this tells me that they have nothing better to offer as a magnet to catch my attention (which would be for getting on a friendly terms with them as I dont look for relationships). I would prefer spending hours studying the tunel effect in quantum physiscs than to indirectly or directly (if I was comfortable enough to say it) say to them "show me your boobs".

By the way, there are people that are into bigger girls. Just saying. Its the men who seem to be held up to a stricter standard of physique.

[Erasmvs]

By the way, there are people that are into bigger girls. Just saying. Its the men who seem to be held up to a stricter standard of physique.

Meeeememememememe

[KendraPM]

yet the idea that im not into sex does tend to produce a feeling of inferiority, especially when everyone from peers to even parents either say it directly or imply it.

That's vile behaviour. What kind of things do they say?

The usual things: hes gay, not a real man or all real men want sex, hes broken, retarded, sick, etc.

I was asked if I was into "animals or aliens something." That was probably the worst reaction I've had. They finally settled on "You're heterosexual and don't know it"/"*pat head* whatever you say, kid," which I guess was an improvement over their original idea that I was sexually attracted to non-humans.

[KendraPM]

I think part of the confusion comes from there being a very gray area between being friendly and flirting, and that line can vary person to person. Sometimes, especially if you're not looking for a relationship, finding someone whose putting out "not interested" vibes makes somepeople (myself included) more comfortable being friendly. Casual touching, joking, sitting next to them, making a point to talk to them/wait for them, etc are all friendly platonic actions for me with people that I find "safe" (aka, not interested in me sexually/romantically).