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Androgyne pride flag proposal


Viridzen

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(I was going to wait to propose this on my future blog, but I don’t have a blog yet, and I think it would be good to get some responses here.)

So, as both an androgyne and a flag lover, I had been wanting to make some sort of androgyne pride flag-related craft as soon as I adopted the label “androgyne” (I tend to use that interchangeably with some other terms). However, I was unable to find a satisfactory one. All there was were two flags which have major drawbacks. Let’s take a look at both of the common flags:

8555062.png

This one is pretty old; I’ve heard it dates back to 2003, and, for pride flags, that’s pretty old. I can’t find the exact place where it was proposed, or any information on who proposed it, though if that were given, I’d probably have a better opinion. I guess my main criticism is that it looks more like a graphic or symbol than something you’d make out of fabric and fly around. The colours barely go well together, and the symbolism is pretty generic (which is a pitfall of many more recent pride flags). It’s drab, and it’s not very symbolic anyway (not all of us are 50/50). I get the idea that this was originally supposed to be for androgynous fashion than gender, though I have my doubts.

tumblr_liuifuhVcr1qap28oo1_500.jpg

(Sorry for the large size.)

Again, the main issue is symbolism. It simply shows three categories: women, androgynes, and men. It represents binary genders more than androgynes. It’s a very beautiful flag, and it’s certainly one of my favourite pride flags, but that doesn’t change much. Turn it sideways, and it’s practically the bisexual flag. This makes pride-related things confusing. Also, it comes from an androgynous fashion blog, so I feel that it might represent that more. (I’d definitely use it if it were for that, though.)

The others I could find were the same thing over and over again: a stripe for each gender, dull colours or pastel colours (nothing wrong with those, but it’s not distinctive), or very complicated. So, my idea is to propose a new flag to either replace or live along with these ones (though fixing up the second one I showed might be better—thoughts?). I know it will have problems, and you should point them out.

Without further ado:

androgyneflag_zpshxchwmzp.png

It’s striking, distinctive, and the colours blend well together without any gradients (seriously, try sewing a gradient, and yes, it’s only a flag if it is intended to exist in fabric).

The purple is for versandrogynes/neutrandrogynes, who are in the centre, completely androgynous with no pull towards either masculine or feminine. The red violet/mulberry is for femandrogynes (feminine androgynes), and the indigo or midnight blue is for butchandrogynes and other masculine-gendered androgynes. The red/raspberry and green are for androgynes whose gender includes things outside the masc-fem spectrum, and/or androgynies whose gender changes.

I really like this one. The combination of red, purple, and green hasn’t really been done before.

And I should let you know that I’m not new to the world of designing and proposing flags: you know the greysexual flag (purple-grey-white-grey-purple)? I’m the designer of it. I actually never expected it to get as much use as it has, so I’m pretty happy.

Also, I may decide to put up more proposals if this one gets positive feedback.

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I use the term androgyne interchangeably as well. To be more specific I go with neutrandrogyne, but also other terms that have more than one definition that includes the definition that I go by (the definition of neither). Although, most people think of the definition of "both" for androgyne and not the other definition of "neither", so I just usually use agender because it's easier to explain and most people think of the definition "neither" automatically. Though, I still feel comfortable with the term nonetheless.

Anyways, I do like the second flag and it's colors, but you're right. It really is close to the bisexual flag. I like the concept of the last flag, since it includes femandrogynes, butchandrogynes, and vers/neutrandrogynes. :D

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scarletlatitude

I feel like that flag is great, but for people who are not androgynous, it may be confusing. Although I suppose all of these things are initially, until people understand them.

I would proudly fly an androgynous flag. It's my favorite part of my identity. :)

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(Sorry, I typed the post in Word and it "corrected" androgynes to "androgynies". :/ )

Anyways, I do like the second flag and it's colors, but you're right. It really is close to the bisexual flag. I like the concept of the last flag, since it includes femandrogynes, butchandrogynes, and vers/neutrandrogynes. :D

I figured, what's the point of an androgyne flag if it's not going to represent the different members of the community, and just use binary colours anyway? That was my problem with flag 2.

I feel like that flag is great, but for people who are not androgynous, it may be confusing. Although I suppose all of these things are initially, until people understand them.

I would proudly fly an androgynous flag. It's my favorite part of my identity. :)

I feel that, as long as we know what it means, it won't matter who else does. It's our flag, not theirs, and besides, there are many successful pride flags that most people can't recognise.

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I have no idea how to rate a specific pride flag (this one is aesthetically pleasing and has meaning that represents diversity, which is great, but it also looks a lot like a bisexual flag with extra stripes, which could be an issue), but I do have one criticism for pretty much all pride flags:

Why must every pride flag be dominated by coloured lines and not feature heraldic imagery, specifically a dragon?

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Why must every pride flag be dominated by coloured lines and not feature heraldic imagery, specifically a dragon?

Or sushi. There is a distinct lack of sushi in flags.

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but it also looks a lot like a bisexual flag with extra stripes, which could be an issue

I considered that, but I think it is easily distinguished by the red and green. The main issue was that jewelry and patterns in pride colours would be identical for bisexuals and androgynes. Unless someone is colour-blind and cannot easily distinguish blue from green/red from pink, I don’t see a major problem where the two flags would be confused.

Why must every pride flag be dominated by coloured lines and not feature heraldic imagery, specifically a dragon?

Or sushi. There is a distinct lack of sushi in flags.

The reason most flags don’t have, for example, a dragon (or sushi…I can’t imagine any flags that would have sushi, though) is because it’s harder to sew (though we can print flags onto fabric nowadays), and because it would get too complicated (also, it heeps it all in line with the original rainbow flag). Some flags have simplistic symbols on them, and I suppose you could use that if you wanted to make a flag. If you have an idea for a flag, I’d love to see it, though! And you can include a dragon if you think it would be symbolic (actually, it would, but a snake would be better). I love seeing others’ ideas.

And, if anyone wants, I can show a bigender flag I made; I think the symbolism I employed is pretty good, and it isn't all stripes (it has a plus sign on it...over stripes :/ ).

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Interesting. Soon there may be a flag for androgynes. :cake: And it may be the one that you are proposing here in AVEN.

The asexual flag originated in AVEN.

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Interesting. Soon there may be a flag for androgynes. :cake: And it may be the one that you are proposing here in AVEN.

The asexual flag originated in AVEN.

I hope more people start using mine so it does become as "official" as it can be. I'm very proud of it.

I'd actually like if people could spread this around, just so we can see opinions from other communities, too.

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As someone that identifies as androgyne, I think this is really a great idea! : ) Your concept is definitely cool and makes sense. For me, I just don't care for the green hue (but that's more of a color preference I suppose), but all of the meanings really fit well!! It's also awesome that you designed the gray-A flag, too!

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As someone that identifies as androgyne, I think this is really a great idea! : ) Your concept is definitely cool and makes sense. For me, I just don't care for the green hue (but that's more of a color preference I suppose), but all of the meanings really fit well!! It's also awesome that you designed the gray-A flag, too!

Do you have a suggestion for the green? I agree it stands out a bit; I was thinking about making it bluer. (Unless it's not a problem with you, and it's certainly not a problem if you just want to change that stripe to another hue for your personal use.)

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As someone that identifies as androgyne, I think this is really a great idea! : ) Your concept is definitely cool and makes sense. For me, I just don't care for the green hue (but that's more of a color preference I suppose), but all of the meanings really fit well!! It's also awesome that you designed the gray-A flag, too!

Do you have a suggestion for the green? I agree it stands out a bit; I was thinking about making it bluer. (Unless it's not a problem with you, and it's certainly not a problem if you just want to change that stripe to another hue for your personal use.)

That's actually what I was going to say! To make the green more on the blue side. : ) I wasn't sure if you wanted to stick with that green or not. But I was thinking more like this:

androgyneflag1_zpsa1eb9wpu.png

And possibly a slightly more muted pink:

androgyneflag2_zpsobsqjqmn.png

But that's just my thoughts. : )

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Or sushi. There is a distinct lack of sushi in flags.

The reason most flags don’t have, for example, a dragon (or sushi…I can’t imagine any flags that would have sushi, though) is because it’s harder to sew (though we can print flags onto fabric nowadays), and because it would get too complicated (also, it heeps it all in line with the original rainbow flag). Some flags have simplistic symbols on them, and I suppose you could use that if you wanted to make a flag. If you have an idea for a flag, I’d love to see it, though! And you can include a dragon if you think it would be symbolic (actually, it would, but a snake would be better). I love seeing others’ ideas.

And, if anyone wants, I can show a bigender flag I made; I think the symbolism I employed is pretty good, and it isn't all stripes (it has a plus sign on it...over stripes :/ ).

Sorry, the sushi is a joke. Sushi was jokingly decided to be the mascot food for agenders in the A(gender)vengers Assemble thread, much like cake is the mascot food for aces :P

But in all seriousness, you have much more talent with flags than I. It looks great!

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scarletlatitude

I understand that the flag has to be simple. Would it be possible to have different kinds of bars, though? The same horizontal bars are a bit meh. Can we maybe have a triangle or vertical bars too? :P Just throwing out ideas.

Idea for the green -- is there a way to make it more of a gradient, so that the flag kind of flows from one color to the other?

I want a copy of this flag now to put on my things. :) <3

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Kelico-I actually prefer yours, since loud colours are hard for me to make out, and that shade goes better with the rest. The green also looks better. So people are free to use whichever of the three they want; in fabric, it won't make much of a difference.



Or sushi. There is a distinct lack of sushi in flags.

The reason most flags don’t have, for example, a dragon (or sushi…I can’t imagine any flags that would have sushi, though) is because it’s harder to sew (though we can print flags onto fabric nowadays), and because it would get too complicated (also, it heeps it all in line with the original rainbow flag). Some flags have simplistic symbols on them, and I suppose you could use that if you wanted to make a flag. If you have an idea for a flag, I’d love to see it, though! And you can include a dragon if you think it would be symbolic (actually, it would, but a snake would be better). I love seeing others’ ideas.

And, if anyone wants, I can show a bigender flag I made; I think the symbolism I employed is pretty good, and it isn't all stripes (it has a plus sign on it...over stripes :/ ).

Sorry, the sushi is a joke. Sushi was jokingly decided to be the mascot food for agenders in the A(gender)vengers Assemble thread, much like cake is the mascot food for aces :P

But in all seriousness, you have much more talent with flags than I. It looks great!

Oh? I had never heard of the sushi thing. I knew it was a joke, but I had no idea it was an agender thing. Neat! And thanks, I just have a way with putting together as many symbols as possible while using as few colours and symbols as possible. It's really good to know how to do that when you make flags.

I understand that the flag has to be simple. Would it be possible to have different kinds of bars, though? The same horizontal bars are a bit meh. Can we maybe have a triangle or vertical bars too? :P Just throwing out ideas.

Idea for the green -- is there a way to make it more of a gradient, so that the flag kind of flows from one color to the other?

I want a copy of this flag now to put on my things. :) <3

Well, the horizontal stripes are the "tradition", but we could definitely do something else. What ideas did you have in mind, like what do you think it should look like?

I've said above that I'm not a fan of gradients on flags, since people who want to sew them can't. If you want to use a gradient, there should be two variants: one with the gradient and one without, just so it's more accessible.

I would love it if, once we get this finalised, we could get a flag company to start selling it (I would buy twelveteen of these things). People could also make artwork with the colours, and I have a friend who makes jewelry with the hopes of selling it. Maybe she'll have an androgyne following? :)

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Kelico-I actually prefer yours, since loud colours are hard for me to make out, and that shade goes better with the rest. The green also looks better. So people are free to use whichever of the three they want; in fabric, it won't make much of a difference.

Aww, thanks! : ) Glad you like it! You can put it in your main post, if you want. Thanks again! It would be neat if these caught on!

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Kelico-I actually prefer yours, since loud colours are hard for me to make out, and that shade goes better with the rest. The green also looks better. So people are free to use whichever of the three they want; in fabric, it won't make much of a difference.

Aww, thanks! : ) Glad you like it! You can put it in your main post, if you want. Thanks again! It would be neat if these caught on!

I'll put a link or pictures laterI'm on mobile and I can't work my magic for now.
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scarletlatitude

Could we do vertical stripes instead? Is the point of stripes so that everyone has an equal share of the flag? Personally I would be partial to a diagonal stripe, but then it wouldn't be equal. I am also a little strange with my fashion sense. :P

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You're right, Scarlet, there are no flags that come to mind with diagonal stripes. Curious. I think diagonal stripes would be awesome! And a break from the stereotype of flags being always vertical or horizontal stripes. And they would probably still be quite easy to sow, n'est-ce pas? :)

I can see how, if each colour represents a gender, then we'd want them to have equal size for symbolism. But this makes me wonder why countries haven't done this!

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I can make it with vertical. One of the reasons so many people liked the second one was because it was vertical rather than horizontal. I'll draw it up later, it shouldn't take too long if I can find the time.

Yeah, I guess the only flags that come to mind that have diagonal are the boi flag, which most people have never seen, and the rubber fetish flag, which is again obscure and only part is diagonal. It's really not a common thing. I'll make vertical soon, and see if we have any more ideas.

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andreas1033

tumblr_liuifuhVcr1qap28oo1_500.jpg

I like the tri colour, plenty of countries have tri colours. Maybe you should of used a green, as its used for harmony, ie nature and balance. What about brown, green, and blue. Ie for trees, grass, and sky, the three colours of the main things in nature, that create balance.

Is there no symbol for androgynous?

I would think you would want a flag that represents outsiders. Is there some symbol that represents individuals, not wanting others, ie asexual, and being androgynous?

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Sorry I haven't put it up yet; I'm on mobile and getting this to do that and such is going slowly, but expect the vertical up within two days.

tumblr_liuifuhVcr1qap28oo1_500.jpg

I like the tri colour, plenty of countries have tri colours. Maybe you should of used a green, as its used for harmony, ie nature and balance. What about brown, green, and blue. Ie for trees, grass, and sky, the three colours of the main things in nature, that create balance.

Is there no symbol for androgynous?

I would think you would want a flag that represents outsiders. Is there some symbol that represents individuals, not wanting others, ie asexual, and being androgynous?

I'm not the creator of this one; it's the third one I'm proposing. Anyway, I'm not sure of your reasoning with the colours, though if "balance" is the reason, I could definitely see that. Many cultures placed an importance on androgyny because it represented balance.

The symbol of androgynous appearance as well as gender identity is the Necker cube, because it can look convex and concave at the same time. It was proposed by Raphael Carter from Practical Androgyny. I might have said before that such a symbol might be too complex for a flag, but I am actually starting to change my mind on it; still no gradients, but a very simple symbol is probably fine.

As for "a flag that represents outsiders", do you mean other non binary genders (which this represents) or binary genders (which I would consider out of place on here)? Or are you saying a symbol for asexuals who are androgynous? Because that would be cool, if you'd suggest an idea (as I've never seen one).

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Here, I finally got it uploaded:

verticalag_zpspnggedha.png

What do you think?

Also, along with the Necker cube, I remembered some others:

The earth symbol, since it is between Venus (feminine) and Mars (masculine)

The Sun symbol; I actually don't know why, but I heard that the community chose this symbol. It works.

The Mercury symbol; I heard he was an androgynous god, but I can't find the source of that claim. Either way, I know a lot of intersex people use this, so maybe we should steer clear, since it's already in use.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey, this thread has become pretty inactive. I'd like to mention that I'm working on sewing one of these flags (the vertical one) to see how it looks. I'll post a photo when it's done. Also, I've been working on a better bigender flag, so when I get time, I'll probably show it, if I'm pleased. (I hope it's not like I'm proposing too many flags...?)

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I'm excited to see them :) Good luck!

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scarletlatitude

Sorry I got lost in my mod duties. :(

I like the vertical stripes better. I look forward to seeing it all properly sewn up. :)

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Hey, I don’t have the right shade of red-violet fabric for the flag yet, so that might take longer than anticipated. Plus, my sewing table isn’t as clean as it can be. But I do have that bigender flag I talked about:

bgfl_zpssk65nwsg.png

I wanted it to not have any colours based on the binary. You can be bigender and not have your genders be male and female. So I used the secondary colours, orange, green, and purple. They’re the result of two colours mixing, symbolic of people having two genders. The + sign is two lines crossing, and it means addition. I’ve also heard that some people spell it “bi+gender”, so if anyone really does, there you go. Originally, it was brown-orange-white-lavender-purple, but it looked wrong, so I changed it to orange and yellow.

I really think this is necessary, so bigender people won’t use the intersex flag anymore. It’s also got the advantage of having no relation to the binary, making it seem like only those two can be a part of bigender.

And of course, if you have suggestions, that would be good!

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scarletlatitude

I like the colors. :) Yeah the camera did mess them up a bit. The three in the middle look kinda the same to me.

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I like the colors. :) Yeah the camera did mess them up a bit. The three in the middle look kinda the same to me.

I think the first two look the same in that picture. Hopefully I can get a better camera by the time my flag is done.
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